Stacy Summary: I love the comparisons between UK and Norway. They had similar quantities of oil, albeit very different sized populations, but what they did with their income and where they now stand says a lot. They say every democracy gets the leader they deserve so it makes sense that the UK and US governments are as in debt as their populations and vice versa. Which came first the wild speculating population or the wild speculating governments of the US/UK economies?
- Norway thrives by going against the tide (must read)
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What came first was the below market interest rates set by our monetary central planning committee, my comrade.
Many FOREX trading entities in the US don’t support trading in the Krone. The ability to trade Krone in Canada via FOREX is also limited.
If you trade FOREX, that does not mean you can take position of Norway’s relative fiscal health.
Danny,
If you weren’t referred to that particular book, what did you actually mean about being ‘introduced to ‘Hitler’s Pope’- Pope XII’? And if you want to use epithets like ‘Hitler’s Pope’, be prepared to deal with the history and back it up.
Galileo, is a modern martyr for science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei#Church_controversy
The Pope’s withdrawal of patronage/protection from the Inquisition, because of Galileo’s work on astronomy and subversion of his undertaking to give the contrary view, is probably not the best analogy for faith-based beliefs about 9/11 ‘truth’.
@ harry w
whatever…..
i think you’re misunderstanding me. I already said i wasn’t refered to that particular book.
and the galileo comment- whatever man. Im merely trying to convey the point that sometimes people are shunned and disregarded about certain ‘truths’ which are generally accepted as correct. And Galileo was proven right in the end- as I believe 911 was an inside job.
Granted it was a crass analogy- you may have personal sensitivities of which I apologise to- but c’mon man- move on. I don’t appreciate 1000 word rants aimed at me.
Danny, you referenced the book (Hitler’s Pope) in praise of the history teacher who referred you to it. I wouldn’t praise a teacher that referred me to book whose author had to retract his muck-raking allegations.
Hatchet jobs are meant to be shocking and often masquerade as history to better achieve that effect. History, on the other hand, should involve evaluating sources rather than uncritically passing them on just because they’re “absolutely shocking stuff” or happen to correspond to one’s prejudices.
Comparing 9/11 to the trial of Galileo is also absurd, but that and Hitler’s Pope both concern scandal and the Vatican.
@bzmoore – Norway should have bought more gold as you say, used its milliards to buy physical gold. Instead, Norway SOLD all the gold they had left in 2004 so Norway is one of the few if not the only industrial country that don’t have gold. When Norges Bank (the central bank) sold the gold the argument was that the holdings were only 1 percent of the banks international reserves. I believe that should be an argument to buy gold not to sell it.
If only we had used some petroleum money on infrastructure, everything we build now is paid by the tax payer. The government petroleum fund is now under active management instead of passive management, which I think basically means they think they know or are better than everybody in the market and that is what will give the fund better profit but it will also increase the higher risks.
This year the government is going to use 129,9 Milliard Kroner from the “oil fund”. It is a record high. Maybe it is to cover the huge expenditure growth of nearly seven percent in the public budget? You know, in Norway the tax freedom day last year was 20.Juli and if that isn’t enough we have a central bank that is working with the goal on inflation rate to be 2,5% each year. Can you imagine what would happened if we suddenly starts to use more and more of the government petroleum fund, the inflation problem would grow up in the sky.
Having complained enough now, I must say it is still a great country. I’m just worrying a bit after looking at other countries and seeing what’s happening to them and then seeing little small hints of that very same thing here.
@ Norway and Oil
While we are on the topic:
I was in Norway 7 years ago. It felt slightly weird like you were in one large IKEA store. Does everything have to be made of pine and chrome? Oops I’m showing my cultural ignorance Norway is not Sweden.
The good professor we were meeting with was complaining about the finance (government) people. He said they all went to the same school of economics with an unhealthy focus on inflation inflation and inflation. I wonder what he’s thinking now.
Gregor McDonald has a nice article about states that save and states that squander (their oil) .
http://gregor.us/oil/the-fate-of-an-oil-exporter/
I think the financial holocaust will consume sovereign funds like Norway’s. There are very few places yet to rape. Look at the Swiss, a thousand years of isolation didn’t help them in a wired world.
Norway can’t be saved harmless from the machinations of the Financial Terrorists. Can’t be saved that is unless Norway uses its billions to buy physical gold!
@Sam – yes we had the good sense not to join the EU. But I must say it just seems like we are a member state anyway, only not having a seat in the parliament. There are so many EU laws and rules that EU is forcing Norway through EEA to implement. Norway has not once put a veto on anything yet. And that is a big argument for those who want Norway to join the European Union that if Norway is getting all the laws anyway then at least we should be a member so that we can influence the lawmaking process. Let’s see what happens with Island and their application to join EU. If they join, Norway will be the next one in.
@ harry w
rant………………….
anyway- i was referencing the subject matter, not that particular book so i can’t comment on your post as such. I’m merely stating that while researching that topic, it made me question institutions/belief systems that we have been thought to trust.
Oh shit, I see I wrote public I meant gross private debt. Was thinking that public is everything beside government, that was wrong sorry
I thank god for the likes of max keiser.. A true “american hero”(of course he lives in france)..
i wish more people understood what was going on but they dont..the “south park ” episode”Magaritaville” pretty much sums up what this is about.. i suggest all watch it, and get a good laugh..
MAX , thank you for telling the truth!!! i try and wake people up, but to no avail…
its the old 93/6/1 rule
93% of population are morons. always have always will be.
6%of population know what is going on. I.E. (Max kesier, alex jones, george noory ETC ETC..(you know who u are..
1% of population rule the other 99%%(always have always will)
if ever that 6% can reach 10% watch out elites!!! but untill then the Big Macs keep marching on …..
Cheers..
P.S. WE STILL LOVE YOU IN AMERICA MAX!!
P.S.S. JONES/KEISER 2012 LIBERTARIAN TICKET?????
@Norway
The Guardian, Saturday 20 May 2006
The country that’s got it all – but is still saving for tomorrow
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/may/20/moneysupplement2
… This year it will reach dizzier new heights. Forget public borrowing and the national debt – there isn’t one. Instead, there’s a huge tax surplus, and the national debt has been paid off. …
@Palantíri
… In fact the total gross public debt is reached 4006 Milliard Kroner as of February 2009 according to Statistic Norway….
What happened ?
Link ?
Guess why else Norway is doing well… It had the good sense not to join the communist superstate known as the European Union.
A comment on the headline “with loads of cash and zero debts” – you would be amazed to learn that Norway has debt, huge debt. In fact the total gross public debt is reached 4006 Milliard Kroner as of February 2009 according to Statistic Norway. A double from the year 2002 where it was about 2000 Milliard Kroner. It is rising fast and high, a one way ticket and I am very worried about that.(by the end of 2008 the banks stood for about 40 percent of that debt)
Now the Government debt is not that big, but it still is 490 Milliard Kroner as of first quarter 2009 according to Statistic Norway. That is about 50 percent of the GDP. You may say that we have a huge Government Pension Fund – Global with a value of 2275 Milliard Kroner by the end of 2008 and a good surplus in the government’s budget to balance the debt and which makes us a net profit state. My problem with this is that it is all so too easy of getting rid of a lot of cash then it is to get rid of a lot of debt, It may balance well today but what about in 15 or 25 years?
Not true, individual debt levels are massive here.
Sharon:
@ Stacy
My comments ain’t posting- is it that spam guard thingamajig?
Danny,
“When I was 17, I was fortunate to have a fantastic history teacher who introduced me to ‘Hitler’s Pope’- Pope XII- absolutely shocking stuff- which began me questioning the world I live in.”
Shockingly bad history. Hitler’s Pope by Rupert Cornwell is fairly routine propaganda, of the kind produced in British academia. It was a hatchet job written to shock and scapegoat a practically powerless religious leader in Europe at war between secular/atheist Liberals, Communists and Fascists.
Even the author felt the need to retract the charges he made, and instead justify his hatchet job by reference to new charges:
———————————————————
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Pope
Recent comments of retraction
According a 2004 article in the The Economist, Cornwell’s historical work has not always been “fair-minded” and Hitler’s Pope specifically “lacked balance”. The article goes on to state that Cornwell, “chastened”, had admitted as much himself, in a later work, The Pontiff in Winter, citing the following quote as evidence:
I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following ‘Hitler’s Pope’, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by the Germans.”[5][42]
In light of such remarks, one commentator asked: “So why has Mr. Cornwell not withdrawn his book, or at least altered its hateful title?” [43]
In a more recent interview, Mr. Cornwell stated:
While I believe with many commentators that the pope might have done more to help the plight of the Jews, I now feel, 10 years after the publication of my book, that his scope for action was severely limited and I am prepared to state this… Nevertheless, due to his ineffectual and diplomatic language in respect of the Nazis and the Jews, I still believe that it was incumbent on him to explain his failure to speak out after the war. This he never did.[44]
———————————————————
Since you’re still referring to the book with the original charges (which the author has since retracted and replaced with others), you demonstrate Mark Twain’s point that, “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes”
Of course the book remains unaltered by the author, or the publisher, on bookshelves in libraries all over the world, and as reference for teachers to refer their pupils to.
Incidentally, when the Channel Islands surrendered to German occupation without resistance, the policy from London was for local officials for ‘passive cooperation’. See:
http://www.information-britain.co.uk/famdates.php?id=241
The Holocaust Research Project provides an account from a British intelligence report, written in August 1945:
———————————————————
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/channelislands.html
“When the Germans proposed to put their anti-Jewish measures into force, no protest whatsoever was raised by any of the Guernsey officials and they hastened to give the Germans every assistance. By contrast , when it was proposed to take steps against the Freemasons, of which there are many in Guernsey, the Bailiff [Alexander Coutanche] made considerable protests and did everything possible to protect the Masons.”
———————————————————
I only know of one British writer who’s ever tackled that collaboration with the Nazi’s, as she points out, it’s been airbrushed out of history, the deportees are even denied compensation that those deported from other occupied territories received because that would draw attention to and confirm the collaboration that occurred:
——————————————————-
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-4-2002-25788.asp
The Guardian: 9/5/2002
Julia Pascal: Our hidden history
…In September 1942, under German orders, the Channel Islands government made deportation lists of British passport holders and foreign nationals, while native Channel Islanders remained safe. The deportation of foreign-born Jews had started in April 1942. Four months later it was the turn of the British. …
The Channel Islands’ war history was one of almost total collaboration with the Nazis. It has taken decades for the islands to admit their role in the Jewish deportations, which took place when Guernsey and Jersey absorbed Nazi Germany’s anti-semitic laws into their own legal system. Today there is still shame about the issue, and the islands’ governments are uneasy about revealing what happened during the second wave of deportations.
As a result, the occupation has been bleached out of British history. How many students know that the Channel Islands – British territory – were occupied? How many know that Jews were deported from Guernsey and Jersey to Auschwitz with full Channel Islands collaboration? And, if this Jewish story is just seeping out, what about the largely hidden history of these British deportees who were sent to prisoner-of-war camps?
…The rulers of the Channel Islands, known freemasons, were protected from deportation, whereas in other Nazi-occupied countries, masons were sent to concentration camps. Many on Guernsey believe that the Channel Islands government willingly served their Nazi masters, only protesting when freemasons’ lives were threatened.
It looks as if a deal was struck. After the deportations, old Channel Islands governing families remained untouched. After the war they were to be rebranded as the heroes of the occupation. Victor G Carey, who collaborated with the Nazis as the bailiff of Guernsey, was knighted by the Queen for his war services. Many feel he should have been hanged.
Certainly there was no postwar acknowledgment of the suffering of the British deportees. They were arrested as a reprisal for German nationals taken by the British in Iran. The Nazis judged it useful to have British prisoners for possible hostage exchange. The deportees included pregnant women, mothers and babies. Officially exiled as prisoners of war, they were removed to concentration camps. The majority were sent to Biberach, Wurzach and Laufen. Conditions were grim. Some people died en route. Forty-five of the deportees later perished in Biberach.
When the first postwar settlements were organised in 1964, the Anglo-German compensation agreement excluded these British deportees. After German reunification, the British government ignored the issue of the Channel Islands deportations at the Moscow Treaty talks when other second world war claims were discussed. …
…Britain wants to sustain the myth that the Channel Islands were victims of the Nazis, rather than admitting that the bailiffs of Guernsey and Jersey collaborated. History has been ignored. …
…Up to now, semantics has let the British government off the hook. Whitehall insists on describing the deportees as “internees”. An internee does not get compensation; a deportee does. But this is pure revisionism. Frank Falla, a Biberach survivor, criticised the Channel Islands government for refusing to “discharge even the civic duty owed to those unfortunate English people as citizens of these islands”. …
…Files on the occupation are closed and many former deportees are fearful of raising their voices against a feudal government that still discriminates against UK passport-holders. Those who collaborated with the Nazis have families in the Channel Islands government, and the reputations of the guilty are being protected. The only British government file which can reveal the truth about the Channel Islands deportations should have been released to the Public Records Office. But it has been “retained by department” indefinitely.
—————————————————–
Juia Pascal also wrote a play about Theresa Steiner, a Jewish woman, deported by the Guernsey bailiff who was subsequently knighted by the Queen Mother, and believed to have died in the gas chambers in Aushwitz.
The play remains banned in Guernsey.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/there-are-still-stories-to-tell-1583090.html
When it comes to Oil/Gas there are three development models:
Normay – Use revenue to invest wisely in downstream industries.
UK – Use revenue to spend for day to day expsenses.
Ireland – Give resourse away to Shell/Statoil.
Thank you Ptah for bringing me back to reality. What was I thinking? A momentary lapse into sheeple thinking. You see, deep down we’re all brainwased. Now I’m going hit my head off a wall to try to get some perspective back.
@Bjorn – that is correct
The market value of the government pension fund – global was 2 275 Milliard Kroner by the end of 2008. It was given additional funds for 384 Milliard Kroner in 2008. This was the largest annual supply of the funds history. During 2008 the funds market value increased by 257 Milliard Kroner. Rent portfolio rose by 85,7 Milliard Kroner and share portfolio of 171 Milliard Kroner. By the end of the year equity share was 49,6 percent compared with 47.5 percent at the end of 2007.
Negative return on invested assets in 2008 reduced the value of 633 Milliard Kroner. A weaker exchange rate in relation to the currencies that the fund is invested in, helped to increase the funds Kroner-value with 506 Milliard Kroner. Changes in the exchange rate however, have no influence on the funds international purchasing power.
Since the funds start-up in 1996 the total supply to the fund has been 2140 Milliard Kroner. The total return on investment measured in international currency has -131 Milliard Kroner, while the weaker course for the Norwegian Kroner has increased the value of 266 Milliard Kroner.
As for the 633 Milliard Kroner loss, both Finance Minister Kristin Halvorsen and Central Bank Chairman Svein Gjedrem tells us that it is only “paper loss” it has not been realized yet… so I guess they hope it will bounce back and regain its former value.
To consolidate the international economy (or at least the “trilateral economy”, if I can use the term, i.e. Japan, North America, Europe) under one currency, there can be no alternatives until that system is put in place, there can be no place for your wealth to flee to. They’ve already destroyed the Swiss Franc by enticing the dopey Swiss with the fiat crack-pipe. What will they do with Norway? You can be sure they’ll do something. Maybe they’ll revive the Vikings, taking over oil rigs, and destroying the resource base. Maybe they’ll discover that Norway kept all its reserves in IndyMac bank. Who knows. (All that is not to suggest that I think one international currency per se is a bad thing, by the way.)
Sharon: You seem in an optimistic mood as you consider the UK government has the ability to think rather than just receive orders from the world power brokers and then execute those orders.
Does anyone know what the design stencilled into the fanlight on 10 downing street represents?
God, how depressing. Makes me want to round up those in the UK gov. and put them in the stocks (actually I’like to to do much worse but that should probably stay in my head).
I think the difference between Norway and UK is the amount of control the money mafia has over the countries. We have had successive idiotic governments who think only in the short term.
Medvedev says G8 should make rouble reserve currency
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20090516/tbs-russia-italy-0b94ddd.html
Another SEC update
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/16/AR2009051602359.html?hpid=topnews
Have you guys seen this? I got there from Dollar Collapse:
“What Another revealed was a “deal”. A deal between the dollar faction (Washington and London) and a few MidEast oil producers. This deal was meant to keep the dollar strong in the absence of a gold standard by “backing it with oil”. In other words, all oil in the world would be priced in dollars, and the dollar would remain strong through usage demand.
In exchange, the dollar faction would keep the price of gold low so that these oil producers could exchange their dollars for gold, kind of like before Nixon closed the gold window.”
http://tinyurl.com/o774hd
And now it looks like the oil producers want to take delivery and put the gold in Dubai, so the question is, does London actually have it?
And if either of you know what “gold specification” means, please do tell.
Estimada Stacy,
I gather from this article about Norway that not only their leaders have buckled the spending spree trend that had been set by US & UK governments (with the respective populations following), but that they also showed a great talent for market speculation (I cannot call it investment, because I firmly believe that the world markets really are in uncharted waters, like Richard wrote). As for what came first, I feel that Fed came first and Nixon came second. Strike one, strike two. Checkmate. The society can’t do much. The wild speculating population didn’t exist before the roaring twenties and the pulsing nineties. The people speculate because as individuals they really don’t have many viable alternatives, because the oligarchs set the rules of the game and we can altogether forget about the laws of the land, because those laws do not apply to them. They bend the laws the way they see fit, and we can only watch and do our best to survive. Remember what you said on the TAM a week ago? For many people this is all about politics. They think how they will vote for the opposition on the next election and that will fix the problem. While we, who put effort to scratch deeper below the surface of the things find ourselves realising that this train will have to continue on its course of crash with the indestructible laws of economy. And then… God help us all.
for me, 911 is comparitable to galileo saying the world is round…
I thought I was a ‘studied’ person of history before I read about IG Farben and wall street during WWII- you grow up quickly after that
When I was 17, I was fortunate to have a fantastic history teacher who introduced me to ‘Hitler’s Pope’- Pope XII- absolutely shocking stuff- which began me questioning the world I live in.
the great maxim comes to mind- HISTORY IS MADE BY THE WINNERS
the price wine is droppin’ folks…….
Keynesianism is just an excuse for the oligarchs to play politics with other people’s money. Nothing to do with economics.
@david
i missed you buddy- “you shalayie wielding fiend”- where’ve you been!!? get on here more often and stick it to max and stacy. No one wants to talk about our little country. I miss the Karmabanque radio days: these people are too smart for me altogether! Mep/DS
Tá súil agam go bhfuil óir agat…
Myths in economics. The Myth of War Prosperity.
http://mises.org/MultiMedia/mp3/misescircle-houston08/2_HMC_Higgs.mp3
@davida
http://questionsquestions.net/topics/left_gatekeepers.html
“Investigative report: journalist Bob Feldman follows the money trail to “Left” media organizations that have sought out funding from the big establishment foundations. Are the interests of the people being served by “dissidents” who are being subsidized by the agencies of the ruling class whom they should be exposing? What does this say about the motivations behind the Left establishment’s ideological warfare against conspiracy researchers, and their adoption of an increasingly watered-down analytical view which fails to look closely at the inner power structures and conspiracies of the ruling elite?”
I heard that norways wealth fund lost 633 000 000 000 Kroner. Is the money lost forever?. What happened to it? Can someone explain?
@proxima,
joining the dots yes, please explain the origins of this fascinating pictogram.
@M&S
I know you don’t give investment advice, but I’ll ask you all the same …. and / or maybe some others here can answer.
I told my sister in the UK back in Sept. to buy Gold ( then 15,000 GBP /Kg. ). So she bought National Savings Bonds instead
So she’s eff. lost 30% of her buying power as Gold is now ca. 20,000 GBP pK.
Her bank told her NSBonds are “safe” .. well, I suppose they are if all you want “saved” is paper pound notes.
If the UK Govt. defaults on debt, does she have “risk” on these .. apart from the obvious currency devaluation?
TIA
As far as I can tell, Naomi Klein has also been dead quiet about 9/11 being an inside job. The question is, is she just another Ford Foundation & CIA sponsored stooge like the Pacifica / Democracy Now people?
Here’s the hierarchy you were speaking of:
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/left_gatekeepers.gif
Reverend Billy is a hip fellow.
Queen tells Brown
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1183468/The-Queen-tells-Brown-grave-concern-MPs-expenses.html
Mike
Stacy
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6301642.ece
Mike
The queer theroies of John Menard Keynes is what started it all in my opinion. When Obama says that the worst thing a government can do during a resesion is to stop spending money then you know its hopeless.