Stacy Summary: Be careful what you wish for Mike/Liverpool! The S & P downgrade doesn’t even mention the fact that North Sea oil revenue will continue falling. Okay, what are your thoughts? Do you agree that S & P is hardly credible after rating subprime AAA? The the UK will grow its way out of debt? Or is the UK toast along with all the other speculator nations?
Tags: s & p · uk downgrade56 Comments
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This is a difficult one to answer. On the surface it could be that the UK is toast but who knows what they’ve got their slimy little paws into.
The song: ‘should I stay or should I go now’ comes to mind.
Stacy, with reference to the UK’s North Sea dwindling oil reserves– maybe the UK has found another quarter to throw in the slot machine….
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/12/uk-argentina-falklands-seabed
I agree with Sharon. The rating agencies have been proven to be absolute shisters– theres always a scheming plan with these schmadas!
Come on Baby!
Crash for Mike!
Mike
I just read a story where the U.S. is in danger of losing it’s “AAA” credit rating as well. So if, eventually everyone loses their credit rating who has the advantage? Gold makes sense to me, because it’s not involved in the currency race to 0. (I’m not sure who’s in the lead for the race to the bottom of the toilet; but I would think with the U.S. “stimulus” packages, bailing out everything and everyone in sight, that they would ultimately be the winners/losers.)
@ Mike
Mike, if we get out of all this alive I’m buying you a pint. too funny!
I drool over the sight of “Neo-libral” sorry new Labour having to go to the IMF. Brown & co, fase grims that this is “Good” for Britian.
Mike
Stacy
Jokes apart i agree with you, Max, Zappta & Jim Rogers that Britian is in the final stages of collaspe, a collaspe that would have happened @ the end of the 70′s had North Sea oil come in stream.
Okay, who is the ‘artist’ behind this: http://toonsays.com/i.php?i=10
As long as he doesn’t try to sing again!
My Nightmare is the “Max” version of “I be you long haired lover from Liverpool”.
Let me assure you if “Little Jimmy” ever shows up in Liverpool he is DEAD!
Mike
@ Stacy,
I’m sure the ‘artist’ has got to be Max. He was trying to drop a hint for you to stick up for him like (was it Gretta?) on the Truth about Markets. So the next time someone tries to tell you how Max only weighs 165lbs.; you know what to say!
Make sure to tune in to the Truth About Markets this weekend for Max’s rendition of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YriPIujLtsA
It is going out to Mike/Liverpool
W O W
what a great song..
anybody know where I can get the Karaoke for this?
LONG HAIRED LOVER FROM LIVERPOOL – 23/12/1972
5 weeks at #1 – 27 weeks on chart
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
And I´ll do anything you say
I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
If you´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
I´ll be your leprechaun and sit upon an old toadstool
I´ll serenade you till I´m old and gray
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
(You´ll be my lovely daisy on the mountainside)
(There are lots of other flowers, too)
But all the other flowers hung their heads and cried
Because the loveliest of all them was you
(But you were evidently the exception to the rule)
I picked you quickly then I ran away
´Cause I was your long haired lover from Liverpool
You were my sunshine daisy from L.A
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
And I´ll do anything you ask
I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
Cut my hair, I´ll even wear a mask
I´ll be your Valentine, and you´ll be mine, and things´ll be cool
We´ll move along together every day
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
And I´ll do anything you ask
I´ll be your clown or your puppet or your April Fool
Cut my hair I´ll even wear a mask
I´ll be your Valentine, and you´ll be mine, and things´ll be cool
We´ll move along together every day
I´ll be your long haired lover from Liverpool
You´ll be my sunshine daisy from L.A
Keiser…………….for this i will find your lare in France 7 MAKE you eat Cornish patises!
Mike
Well, as long as the banks have had their chance to pump the market then raise revenue by issuing more common shares, I guess there’s no reason to prop it up any longer.
Richard Gugliada from Standard and Poor’s in 2001,
“Any request for loan level tapes is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!! Most investors don’t have it and can’t provide it. Nevertheless we MUST produce a credit estimate. It is your responsibility to provide those credit estimates and your responsibility to devise some method for doing so.”
That pretty much sums up S&P’s credibility.
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/rating-agencies-draw-fire-capitol-hill/
Is Microsoft really a monopoly? (Does not have any special privileges granted by the State)
Little guy wins against Big guy.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i3kPIjCUTixWVMkOTpPSwO-4NtTQ
Congrats, Mike. It’s your lucky day.
On the S&P Warning to the UK …
S&P, US-based … they guys that managed to rate Subprime mortgages AAA has the audacity to stay in business, now issuing downgrades to the mess they caused ?
What a laugh !
I still maintain that the US-Ratinsg Agencies and US-MSM have been dissing the Eurozone and the UK recently … in order to make “their” Bonds look safer.
The UK currently has ca. 52% Debt/GDP ratio.
The US ratio is IMO currently ca. 73% , “excluding” their LT obligations to Medicare/Medicaid.
Even most EU countries have a Debt/GDP ration of OVER 64% currently ( outlawed by the Maastrich Treaty ).
I repeat .. Geithner wants people to view US-Bonds as the safe haven … hence the Negative Propaganda IMO !
Tell me where I’m wrong please !
PS:
Denninger signaling a US-Bond market collapse again…
CBs And Other “Real Money” Had Enough?
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1057-CBs-And-Other-Real-Money-Had-Enough.html
The best Debt clock I’ve ever seen !
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
@Phil,
Wow. That debt clock is brilliant. Do you know if there’s one for the UK?
@sharon .. “one for the UK?”
Isn’t that one frightening enough
UK : http://cluaran.free.fr/debt.html
PS:
US debt clock runs out of digits
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7660409.stm
It is hard for me to believe that such a dynamic place as England will stay down for the count after stubbing its toe. How can disaster long embrace a folk with such a delightful custom as swilling port wine, rapidly walking backwards around the Quad, twirling madly at the corners, and making time stand still? Maybe down today, but surely up tomorrow!
The British have seldom been a nation of lemmings.
And now, a lemming test:
TO BE, OR NOT TO BE… A LEMMING!
by Ringling Whett
The lemmings circled ‘round the ancient rock
In hopes they’d get the mystic glyphs to talk.
But the senseless stone could not hear their cry,
And would not tell them to buy low, sell high.
One of this breed had an appealing squeal
That made the others want to do a deal.
They bought with vigour till their stash was dry…
And watched that thing flame-out across the sky.
Whatever was reported in the news
Could give the lemmings excitement, or blues.
Instead of drinking deeply from this fount,
They should have recalled that markets discount.
A certain lemming broke free from the pack,
But soon the others were close on his track.
They all were victims of a woeful end,
Because they overlooked the major trend.
One should have feelings somewhat less than proud
If he’s a member of a massive crowd.
And ‘though the many hear the Sirens’ call,
The group surviving will be very small.
To plunge in markets is a tough pursuit –
You must subject emotions to dispute –
And if the water seems right for swimming,
Consider that you might be a lemming!
@juergenwahl
Nice one !
Have you read Mandevilles “The Grumbling Hive” ?
From 1703 .. but so genial !
Have any of you heard about the couple who ran off with 10 million NZ dollars (approx. $6.3 million) after the bank accidentally deposited it in their accounts? The story is all across the msm who say it is believed the couple have left the country.
Funny isn’t it? All this fuss over a couple taking money from the bank and no one in the msm is making the comparison to how the banks took everybody elses money. Oh, the irony!
I hope they get away with it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30860773/
S&P means Standard & Poor’s? LOL make it Suckers & Poor’s which we will be if we don’t stand up.
UK is toast although I’ve been reading today that maybe the Falklands maybe have some black candy but it will take at least 4 years to get it producing the black gold.
*gulps*
Falklands oil?
Don’t make me laugh!
That old chestnut been going since the end of the war in 1982. They did some reseach in the 90′s but came up with zip.
Besides the bankupt British, backed up by the bankupt USA in a war with South America, backed up by CHINA!
Mike
regarding the falklands & the uk; argentina claimed ownership first with the un and then the uk countered and decision as to sovereignty re the ‘black gold’ is now pending now
Pimco says sell-off driven by fears U.S. could lose AAA
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Bill Gross, the co-chief investment officer of bond giant Pacific Investment Management Co., said market fears that the U.S. is at risk of losing its AAA credit rating is sending the U.S. dollar, stocks and bonds under severe selling pressure on Thursday.
Asked what is driving the market declines, Gross told Reuters via email that investors fear the U.S. is “going the way of the U.K. — losing AAA rating which affects all financial assets and the dollar.”
…
…
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Pimco-says-selloff-driven-by-rb-15319473.html?sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=
Big business. patents and developing countries…..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/may/19/wto-climate-change-intellectual-property
@Max – what’s a schfing schfing?
@ Steve, a schfing schfing says what?
Regarding the fancy US debit clock:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Admin ID:GODA-255248271
Admin Name:Registration Private
Admin Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.
Admin Street1:DomainsByProxy.com
Admin Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Admin Street3:
Tech ID:GODA-155248271
Tech Name:Registration Private
Tech Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc.
Tech Street1:DomainsByProxy.com
Tech Street2:15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Scottsdale
Tech State/Province:Arizona
Tech Postal Code:85260
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.4806242599
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:+1.4806242598
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:
For such a nice and fancy upmarket clock — they seem to be totally paranoid about getting suggestions via email or any other means.
I am a fan of the Accounting concept of “Total Cumulative Debt per Person” — and I was hoping that it might somehow be added to this clock — but that seems to be off.
In case you have not read my other posts, the Total Cumulative Debt per Person in the USA is ~700,000 USD.
============
I loved the play about the Hargesa Goat Bubble — it should be mandatory for all economics students to read it — then this interesting bit of news comes along…
============
Wind farm ‘kills Taiwanese goats’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8060969.stm
Abnormal noises could affect growth and feeding of the goats, officials say
A large number of goats in Taiwan may have died of exhaustion because of noise from a wind farm.
Max and Stacy,
What do you think of this guy?
http://thegoldbugnet.blogspot.com/
Looks like the UK’s Neo-Feudal Casino Gulag Plantation Economy is about to go into lock down!
Nick Taleb wants all Financial Terrorists fired NOW.
See at 55:36 @
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/kahneman_taleb_DLD09/kahneman_taleb_DLD09_index.html
Oops sorry about that chief; Taleb was speaking January 29 2009, and the world still isn’t listening to him.
The London times (i think) published recently proclamations from powerful UK officials who stressed that, in order to maintain balance with the natural environment of the UK (in effect, a closed ecosystem), the population would have to fall by fifty percent.
It seems that, while ecological detritus poses a significant threat to individual lives the globe over, economic detritus–hyperinflation and then stagflation–results when an economy sweepingly contracts–i think of the shore being pulled back by a tidal wave still at sea, exposing the seashore for all that it is. This is a metaphor oft mentioned by Max and Stacey.
Currently, in the US, the unemployment rate among black males under 25 is 40%–in the inner city. This is a staggering–and humbling–statistic, although a statistic only is it not but, rather, symptoms of a societal infrastructure based on racialism.
Economic warfare is a relatively new beast in the realm of imperialism. The policies of the International Financial Institutions–US and British sponsored institutions–developed over the last 25 years ways in which to manipulate markets and reorder entire societies.
When does Peak Oil induce stagnation enough to paralyze the industrial economy? Does it putter out or does ecological succession-the way in which ecosystems collapse–prove to be as abrupt as some scientists posit?
I wonder how this long running finance crisis will affect CPU design?
This lecture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfgWmQpzD74
Only hints at it.
That said, the INTEL x86 family of CPUs is dead — a new family of CPUs will emerge out of this crisis … the INTEL x86 design could only come to be in dodgey global inance system.
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13692889
“Buying Farmland abroad: Outsourcing’s third wave”
“Rich food importers are acquiring vast tracts of poor countries’ farmland. Is this beneficial foreign investment or neocolonialism?”
neo feudalism or colonialism?
Everybody missed the item where the UK claims swats of oil rich ocean around the falklands (may 13 UN deadline for new territory claims) ? It is contested by argentinia, but if that succeeds the UK has no worries, except a possible war with Argentinia (which the IMF will probably prevent. …
Hello,
I found very interesting comment about current order in world economy:
The problem with “headquarterization” (Comment N-r 49):
http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2009/01/can-the-us-economy-afford-a-keynesian-stimulus/
Here Are some Facts:
I am from Bulgaria (Eastern Europe) and also a CIMA student. Working as cost accountant/controller in German manufacturer full-time and earn monthly about 500 EURO=>450 GBP in Sofia(Bulgaria).
Well in Bulgaria food and petrol are not cheaper than any European country or differences are not more then 5-10%. Cars are also not cheaper and in many ways are more expensive.
Because of stupid debt and real-estate bubble, our economy receives unsustainable growth and whole capital (human, financial and machine) goes there. So, now what is there productivity? How will generate foreign currency net cash flow? How will pay their debt? Maybe, Austrian banks have very hard time now, because they give us money for some buildings, which will not manufacture anything…(no cash in from foreign-export).
So, now I see light in tunnel, because we have a chance to rebuild our economy and transfer our capital to productive industries. Yep, this will be with the cost of many job losses and a lot of pain, but we should.
What I see in UK and USA, that there is no will for rebuilding their economis and whole these new debts will prolong there bubbles and ruin more.
Do you think, that you (they) are 5-10 times more productive then me (us) to receive 5-10 times more income? I am not so sure, but maybe I am wrong?
If developed countries don’t rebuild their economies and continue with this standard of living, there will be further transfer of manufacturing capacity to countries like Bulgaria….More debt and of course collapse….
Anyway, Greetings from Sofia! Be smart and have fun.
Thanks Max and Stacy for informing and bringing this sort of info to my attention.
‘Blame corporate agriculture for farm suicides’
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Blame-corporate-agriculture-for-farm-suicides-18024-3-1.html
TREASURIES-Bonds tumble as U.S. assets come under pressure
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2160192720090521
UPDATE 2-China copper imports at new high, aluminium surges
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/05/22/afx6455467.html
@Mother Earth
Your truly didn’t miss it!
see above in the comments.
@Stacy
I hear Max does Donny Osmond is gonna be used as a method of torture at Guantanamo and Diego Garcia….
Get that “turn around pick up a bail of cotton” tune back up from the old karmabanque radio site. Now THAT was some good singin’ y’all!!
@Danny – actually, it’s Little Jimmy Osmond he will perform tomorrow!
@Stacy
Spliting hairs stacy, spliting hairs!
My lawyers will be listening.