[1047] The Truth About Markets – 15 July 2009

July 15th, 2009 by stacyherbert

Stacy Summary:  The Truth About Markets, New Zealand.  15 July 2009.

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Tags: 144 Comments

144 responses so far ↓

  • eric
    Jul 15, 2009 at 12:51 pm

    France loves big goverment,highest taxes,endless regulation and high level corruption by European standards.
    Sounds like Max lives under the fear of the French goverment.

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, but, frankly, I don’t get the Obama is not American stuff and I don’t get the there is no such thing as being able to change the environment – ie climate change. Humans and animals have changed their environments throughout history; what is different today is we have pumped a lot of carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere through everything from burning coal to driving cars to raising lots of cows while also removing a great deal of the earth’s ability to absorb the carbon dioxide. It’s not rocket science. I studied this a little bit in the very late 80′s / early 90′s at UCLA. At that time we didn’t have all the heatwaves of the 90′s and noughties, but the science was pretty convincing. Sure sun spots and solar flares play an effect but it’s silly to think just because a group of bankers hope to capitalize on an unfortunate situation that it doesn’t exist. I mean, for example, cancer exists. Heart attacks exist. Diseases exist. And many doctors, researchers, pharmaceutical giants, etc make money from these things. So does the fact that many are profiting from the diseases mean that they don’t exist? Yes, they make up diseases I know I know, but there is lots of science you can perform in a high school laboratory that will demonstrate how climate change can occur.

    Anyway, again, I prefer conversations and debates about bankers, banks, markets, finance, Treasury, Fed, currencies. This notion that everything is a hoax can provide endless links to some other guy’s argument and there are loads of sites that cater to each side.

  • Mike/Liverpool
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Stacy
    They used to make Wine on the Scottish isles in the !2 th Centry, not too many Ford Mustangs about then me thinks.

    Did you study the “Little Iceage”?
    Mike

  • alister
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    whats the france-singapore trade flow like.. anyone familiar?

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    @Mike2liverpool – we studied the Little Ice Age. We studied the mammoth ice ages as well. It doesn’t disprove the existence of greenhouse gas effect which, again, you can easily recreate in your back yard.

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    @alister – hmmm . . . good question; why do you ask? I think they trade far more with Japan, Hong Kong, China, etc. than with Europe.

  • Phil
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    @Stacy … ” Anyway, again, I prefer conversations and debates about bankers, banks, markets, finance, Treasury, Fed, currencies ”

    Was that a jab at me .. and my OT posts ?
    I feel guilty of course.
    OTOH, I always thought my posts* were somehow related.
    ( * 2012 etc. )

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    @Mep – I’m sure Max will find an analogy for the flesh eating robot soldier thingy . . . you used to only be able to make this stuff up. Now it’s all real. Got your whisky, gold and sugar?

  • Mongo
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    LOL

    The link with Chicago protesters was todays funniest (while tragic), the sign with the following says it all to me!

    WHY PAY TAXES WHEN THEY CAN JUST PRINT MONEY!

    Epic LOL (epic tragedy)

    http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/peace_freedom/patriots_and_protesters/news.php?q=1247249620

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:18 pm

    @Phil – No!!! I like your stuff. I’m just saying if we are going to have massive debates, I’d rather have one about Goldman Sachs’ program trading or one about the difference between Ben Bernanke and Mervyn King . . . etc.

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    @Phil – good one; in our Death of the Dollar 2 film, Catherine Austin Fitts said all investors should withdraw entirely from the US market as it was too corrupt; she would have saved anyone following her advice a whole lot of fraud loss.

  • Mep
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Stacy – These days, I don’t think I could hoard whiskey for barter. The news keeps getting worse . . . and creepier. In other words, if I were hoarding it, I’d be drinking an awful lot of it too. I’d probably end up in some kind of an accident or another, and then they’d have to throw me in debtors prison when I couldn’t afford my ambulance/emergency bill!

  • Giuseppe Bagodonutti
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Wow
    they’re talking about the details of “black-box” trading on BNN right now…

    I’ll post a link later (if they have a truncated one, otherwise, it’ll be a link to the whole show)

  • Phil
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    @Stacy … ” Catherine Austin Fitts said all investors should withdraw entirely from the US market as it was too corrupt;”

    What a coincidence ..
    … Richard Bookstaber said the same in his book … a Demon of our own Design . He mentioned that retail investors should trade ONLY Indices as with single stocks they have no chance.

  • Shankar
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Nice reference to Dickens Stacy, ” It was the best of times and it was the worst of times”.

  • sharon
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    @Stacy…………………”Anyway, again, I prefer conversations and debates about bankers, banks, markets, finance, Treasury, Fed, currencies. This notion that everything is a hoax can provide endless links to some other guy’s argument and there are loads of sites that cater to each side.”

    Come on Stacy, we all talk about other things as well (that’s life). You and Max often raise other topics which as it should be. I, for one, love this site – I visit many and this is one of my favourites, why? Because the people who come on here, and obviously yourself and Max included, are very intelligent, witty, knowledgable, people. It is a joy to communicate with people like that. Is it so bad to veer off now and again, given that we’re all doing anyway whilst fully expecting the main topics to be about finance (as is our want). I would suggest that what most people like about you and Max is that you keep it human and figure in life’s events at the same time.
    Sorry if I’ve spoken out of turn.

  • Youri Carma
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:56 pm

    @Stacyherbert I agree we should stick to the subjects which I try as much as possible but sometimes you get carried away by spin-off subjects. Sorry for that.

    One vulcano outburst will produce far more CO2 than we will ever produce since the industrial revolution so what are we talking about here? They can’t even predict the weather 3 days ahead. We just don’t know enough of this very complex weather sytem. Mars icecaps where melting too before 2005 and who drives around on Mars, space Nazis? In October 2008 it snowed on Mars reported by Dutch NRC = msm. A journalist from what used to be the most liberal Dutch magazines Vrij Nederland was fired over is CO2 scepticism. People are payed off to spread this CO2 lie we know that for sure now. If these sunspots don’t come back fully we have an other small ice age say scientist.

  • Giuseppe Bagodonutti
    Jul 15, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    Here we go…
    The talking heads on BNN discuss High-Frequency Trading…
    A good primer for those that have been living in the Russian Tin-cans for the last 105 days (and getting paid $21000 for it)

    http://watch.bnn.ca/clip193943#clip193943

    Actually, I have to say BNN has been getting more into the dirty side of the markets lately, but they are still deluded on a lot of things…

  • Dedo
    Jul 15, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    @Stacy,….I’m intrigued,….what is the difference between Bernanke and King,…I’ve looked everywhere !

  • Scott from Oregon
    Jul 15, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    Re: Climate Change

    http://www.realclimate.org/

    A site run by scientists who debate climate change using science.

    Which is as it should be….

  • Phil
    Jul 15, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    @Sharon .. Gamma rays and black holes

    By coincidence, my little son sent me this link …
    … sign of the times, he’s only upstairs !
    ;-)
    http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/double_burst.html

    Discusses Gamma rays and Black Holes.
    .
    .
    .
    Another one of the links he sent with very beautiful pictures and music :
    Journey Through Our Universe…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLhpuoql1w&feature=related

  • Youri Carma
    Jul 15, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    @Scott from Oregon

    Yep, that’s how it should be. Here some real scientist.

    More recent data shows that in the opposite sense to IPCC predictions world temperatures have not risen and indeed have fallen over the past 10 years while CO2 levels have risen dramatically. http://tinyurl.com/nulxhe

    http://tinyurl.com/nulxhe

  • Dedo
    Jul 15, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    And last but not least,….here’s some quotes from some non-scientists !!http://www.peopleforwesternheritage.com/PFWHRMAdditionalQuotes.htm

  • sharon
    Jul 15, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    @Dedo – your link doesn’t work.

  • Dedo
    Jul 15, 2009 at 3:41 pm

    That better BOSS!

  • Dedo
    Jul 15, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    Here’s a taster,…
    “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
    - Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

  • Youri Carma
    Jul 15, 2009 at 4:24 pm

    “Green” Global Government Agenda Becoming More Evident: Daniel Taylor | Rothschild Bank Vice-Ch.. http://bit.ly/XiOcb

  • snoop diddy
    Jul 15, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    @stacy,
    and calling Obama a Muslim just because he has a diverse upbringing gets on my nerves too. Just pointless fearmongering rhetoric based in hate and closed minds. There are a million other reasons to disagree with Obama lol. Can’t believe some of the change he was talking about is giving the Fed total power. Hopefully Ron Paul’s Bill will blow it wide open and they’ll see some positive change.

  • problemis
    Jul 15, 2009 at 5:59 pm

    Mad Max,

    I have a new band for you to manage. They are better than the Fake Ayatollahs.

    Goldman and the Rubinites. There a grunge band…

  • problemis
    Jul 15, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    They’re… There…

    Wow, too much head banging…

  • Veritas
    Jul 15, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    Free workers? Sounds like Hollywood. Work for $0 in the mail room in the vain hope of moving up.

  • problemis
    Jul 15, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    Here is the hit single from Goldman and the Rubinites.

    “Take a Load Off Fannie”

    This one was written by “Crazy Chester” Greenspan…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712kRqri2No

  • Ken Belke
    Jul 15, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    Max/Stacey, Check this out…. a quadrillion dollar credit card bill.

    http://www.nbcdfw.com/around_town/shopping/Wow-Quadrillion-Dollar-Credit-Card-Bill.html?yhp=1

    Maybe it wasn’t a glitch….. maybe they used this guys credit card account as a temporary SIV for all of their toxic junk on their balance sheet. Was Wachovia getting audited that day or something and needed to make their balance sheet of accounts receivable look pretty for 12 hours?

  • Carpathia
    Jul 16, 2009 at 12:06 am

    If the RMB appreciates considerably, the newly loaned money, will be used to buy the West. As admitted to me, by a Chinese Government official, they are looking to about seven times appreciation… i.e. parity to the USD. To do this, they need to loan enough money into existence so that they can technically buy the west. Something to remember, is that Chinese banking is VERY different from Western banking. Their banks deliberately take hits all the time and they don’t flinch.

    With regard to Canada being a big beneficiary of Chinese investment… I can only say… I told the SS Rudd very clearly that they either go along with the Chinese and do what they want… or be abandoned.

    Myself, I’m thinking of moving to the USA to take advantage of the free labour.

  • stacyherbert
    Jul 16, 2009 at 12:17 am

    @Dedo – I was hoping you would know the difference?

    @problemis – do you have a sample of some of the music of Goldman and the Rubinites? Sounds interesting . . .

  • problemis
    Jul 16, 2009 at 12:41 am

    Stacy–

    You are going to tell me the Fake Ayatollahs are a real band and not just Max doing karaoke??

    Hit the youtube link. Omid Malekan did the ultimate parody of the Band’s classic “The Weight” to visuals of the financial crisis.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712kRqri2No

    Story on the original lyrics:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weight

    I kid you not, Greenspan IS Crazy Chester.

    I am sure back in junior high school, Max and TurboTax Timmy used to listen to it on Timmy’s turntable less than a mile from Max’s house.

    Remember, Don Kirshner taught us you don’t really need a band… just some songs from the writers at the Brill building, some session musicians, a couple of voice overs, a couple of teen mag spreads, a little BS on tv and viola…

    You have the Monkees and the Archies…

    It is/was professional karaoke. Only Kirshner had more integrity than Wall Street…

  • Ingvend Storrs
    Jul 16, 2009 at 12:41 am

    @stacyherbert

    Good gods! Really? Go figure.

  • Dedo
    Jul 16, 2009 at 2:29 am

    @Stacy,…..OK, approx six yrs!!

  • david
    Jul 16, 2009 at 3:32 am

    Max fomenting dissent in Ireland, oh I see, that was what all that shouting Bobby Sands repeatedly at the top of your head in a strange voice that sounded more like Gerry Lewis than Gerry Adams was about. Right I understand now, let me just don my balaclava grab me shilleleagh and semtex, and I’ll have a crack at 3rd Para.

  • harry_w
    Jul 16, 2009 at 7:18 am

    @ stacy,

    “… I don’t get the Obama is not American stuff and I don’t get the there is no such thing as being able to change the environment – ie climate change.”

    I take it to be a manifestation of American nationalism, if Obama is a foreigner (alien to the US) it’s a bad thing.

    I agree climate change can and has occurred. My concern is how this issue seems to have been taken as a means to introduce regressive fuel-rationing (de facto) via punitive taxation. It appeals to the puritans of the green movement who get satisfaction punishing offenders, usually the soft targets.

    “…I prefer conversations and debates about bankers, banks, markets, finance, Treasury, Fed, currencies. This notion that everything is a hoax can provide endless links to some other guy’s argument and there are loads of sites that cater to each side.”

    I don’t mind varied topics, obviously the ‘truth about markets’ is a self-explanatory topic. The notion that ‘everything’ is a hoax, along with the tiresome rhetoric about the ‘mainstream media’ (whilst credulously sucking up ridiculous blogs and web-media like Rense or Infowars) is typical of the traditional paranoia of the American right. It was first commented on in light of the Goldwater US presidential campaign (where Reagan and the new-right first gathered):

    [b][url=http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html]The Paranoid Style in American Politics[/url][/b]
    By Richard Hofstadter†
    Harper’s Magazine, November 1964, pp. 77-86.

    Unfortunately that’s what happens if you associate with Alex Jones, many of his monomaniacal followers will express their concerns on your site, expecting it to align with your concerns. They don’t.

    e.g. posts you made about the Honduran coup or the herd-effect on ‘new social media’ don’t register with those more interested in portraying the US president as a suspect foreigner, or who take the NWO/Bilderberg nonsense to be global conspiracies. Too bad: If you lie down with dogs, you’ll get up with fleas.

    It was pointless even trying to discuss the points you raised in those posts because most comments made in the threads were completely irrelevant. So I didn’t bother any more after a couple of efforts. It’s an effective way to block constructive debate and prevent relevant information from being shared and gaining circulation.

    I think that’s a pity. For one thing, your points about ‘new social media’ are important, taking the sceptic’s position is quite distinct. Especially when you and Max both use twitter – and I seem to recall you called on others to sign up to it! ;-P

    And for another, this blog is the only one I’ve seen to cover the Honduran coup as a serious event (beyond the most superficial level).

    The only news network I’ve seen follow up on the story with full reports and background research/interviews is Al Jazeera, unsurprising given that it was the only English language network that actually covered the killing of protesters at the airport to keep Zelaya in exile.

    Espionage, fraudulent securities and foreign exchange reserves
    …
    Hondurans ‘have right to revolt’

    I don’t understand why you refer readers to a BBC account of the story. As you noted about their coverage of protests, it’s heavily propagandised reporting. A reputable agency report with maximum facts/quotes and minimal editorial opinion/analysis embedded in the report would be preferable.

    e.g. in the BBC report you refer to, the protesters shot at the airport by the army have disappeared down Aunty Beebs memory hole (just as Orwell described Big Brother/The Ministry of Truth doing in 1984):

    “Mr Zelaya’s dramatic attempt to fly back to Honduras failed earlier this month when the military blocked the runway at Tegucigalpa airport.”

    Now there has to be a better report of Zelaya’s words than an abridged BBC version which omits relevant facts and inserts dubious editorial views. Agence France Press (AFP) often put the other agencies to shame for speed and accuracy (they got the details of the death at the G8/City protest first with quotes from the emergency services). Al Jazeera offered by far the most immediate and accurate English language coverage of events at the time, so why direct readers to the BBC which didn’t even appear to have a real team there on the ground?

  • Daniel S
    Jul 17, 2009 at 5:16 am

    lol Mep, I bought a couple bottles and the cap was defective on the whiskey and umm, the cap was fine on the vodka but I drank all the whiskey and the vodka is open in my fridge. So much for that idea! :P

    Alcohol is a troublesome hedge because it’s bulky by value, and spending it would likely be capitalizing on an alcoholic’s self-destruction.

    Re: global warming, I’ve thought since the start that those arguing against it here were just here to hijack the dialogue. I was going to hunt down the funding of their sources but they’re using such consistent logical fallacies I became convinced they are immovable. You can tell when you see “all-or-nothing” thinking combined with responses that don’t actually directly address any argument you make. Is the green movement hijacked? Of course. That doesn’t negate it’s premises though.

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