It’s been fun. Thanks.

But to associate FZ with MKULTRA is just disinformation. Fabrication of fact.

Yes I do know people who can think for themselves, quite a few, maybe I do not know how lucky I am.

“The LC series is neat because a good deal of the slogging has been done on a small slice of the entertainment industry.”

Thats cool if you want a short-cut to knowledge on pop culture, but I do my own slogging, and I know from personal association with some individuals that LC series has lots of its editorial slanted to provide a convenient narrative despite facts not always stacking up.

One could accuse Iggy Pop of colonialism because his dad taught English? To the nth degree of academic sophism you could make that intellectual leap – sure. However, its absurdity would only reduce more substantial aspects of any argument redundant. LC Series appears to fall into that trap. A gossip column for pop intellectuals.

Presumably Moondog wasn’t blind but actually gathering information as a prelude to the attack on Grenada.

Sorry, I remain unconvinced in the central premise of this debate despite receiving some very interesting links.

thanks.

The aim is not to “criticize” FZ, but to point out that things are rarely what they seem, especially in mainstream culture.

“Think for yourself?” Have you ever met anyone who can do that?

Harrison Bergeron (1995)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-175006468841636088

The LC series is neat because a good deal of the slogging has been done on a small slice of the entertainment industry, and the reader is left to, well, THINK. You will see that none of the key players were “ordinary” middle class white boys and girls. I am not making the points you mention, not at all.

This site seems to be the usual gatekeeping variety, but assembles data on the contemporary kultur industry that has significance for the immediate future:
http://pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com/

Or, on a stiffer note, Theodor Adorno (pal of Queen Lizzie & creator of Beatles music) provides a few hints:
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/SWA/Culture_industry_reconsidered.shtml

That Mark Twain (Is Shakespeare Dead?) article coaxes people to THINK. He was pointing at the same system that Dave McGowan has set out for us.

“Think for yourself?” Have you ever met anyone who can do that?

Harrison Bergeron (1995)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-175006468841636088

The LC series is neat because a good deal of the slogging has been done on a small slice of the culture creation industry, and the reader is left to, well, THINK. You will see that none of the key players were “ordinary” middle class white boys and girls. I am not making the points you mention, not at all.

This site seems to be the usual gatekeeping variety, but assembles data on the contemporary kultur industry that has significance for the immediate future:
http://pseudoccultmedia.blogspot.com/

Or, on a stiffer note, Theodor Adorno (pal of Queen Liz II & creator of Beatles music) provides a few hints:
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/SWA/Culture_industry_reconsidered.shtml

That Mark Twain (Is Shakespeare Dead?) article coaxes people to THINK. He throws light on the same machine (under Queen Liz I) that Dave McGowan has set out for us.

Not much to continue really, but I’ll try.

“There are about 16 articles in the LC series, in which Zappa is painted as a high level military intelligence agent working with all-military personnel, helping to culturally engineer the baby boomers.”

Believe it if you want to, I am not yet convinced. Any one who says ‘think for yourself’ is cool in my book.

“As for any genuine religious strain, it appears to be the usual “ancient mystery religion” with the de rigeur ritual human sacrifices, belief in reincarnation.”

Mmm, Mystery school teachings are deeply engrained for sure. Even when I read serious theological text I often sense the author is not as immune to its influence, whilst attempting to denounce it, as they would hope for and often reveal their own shortcomings as a result.

So a middle-class white boy from Los Angeles is hardly going to be immune. You have to start reading authentic African text if you want a clear view, and even then the reprints can offer misleading analysis due to European indoctrination.

However, I am not really sure what point you/LC Series are making here. Is it that satire is irrelevant? That people are forever responsible for the actions of their parents. That teenage indiscretions should never be seen as only that but should carry a life sentance?

That is some ‘Mark of Cain’, never mind Mark Twain.

Or is the criticism referring to Francis Zappa? That I could begin to understand.

This could be a double post. Sometimes the comments don’t go through straight away.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html

There are about 16 articles in the LC series, in which Zappa is painted as a high level military intelligence agent working with all-military personnel, helping to culturally engineer the baby boomers. As for any genuine religious strain, it appears to be the usual “ancient mystery religion” with the de rigeur ritual human sacrifices, belief in reincarnation, etc. Hardly a Mark Twain style patriot.

The text in your links indicated an attempt to chip away at organized Christianity, which would be part of the long-term plan to replace the old religions with the new earth worship religion.

Speaking of Mark Twain, he gently hints at the Kultur Kreation industry in this essay:
http://yost.com/bacon/IsShakespeareDead-Twain.html

A stand-up comedian’s rendition:
Mark Twain’s ‘Is Shakespeare Dead?’ — with Keir Cutler
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7004942638729319523

(Going offline for a while but will check this topic later for any further comments.)

Thanks for the link – I will certainly take a look at the book you refer too.

Zappa was quite conservative in his views but not anti-religion. A Hare Krishna, he tended to criticize those who would use religion to justify selfish acts or acts which he considered wrong. His overly moral position is why he is often considered authoritarian. I have never seen or heard any reference to classify him with the eugenicists.

Personally, I am not in the least interested in any other aspect of sixties american music culture as popularized by the hippie movement. Jim Morrison etc (Hendrix excluded) were the product of the birth of corporate America, whereas Zappa had more in common with Mark Twain or some other american patriot figure, in my humble opinion.

Actually people long ago knew the remedy against small pocks. They made a wound on the arm of, mostly children and taking some of the skin of the affected by the small pocks and put it in the wound. As such causing a triggering of the immune system without getting completely sick.

Thanks for the links. The work seems to be part of the effort to undermine established religion.

If you are interested in FZ, you will surely enjoy reading the entire Laural Canyon series from Dave’s Web, but it’s better with photos. The larger context will throw light on the specifics.

It’s quite common for key Kultur Kreation figures to present fake persona, depending on their targets. They are all on short leashes and do what they’re told. Bertrand Russell is a good example.

If you enjoy this topic beyond the narrow context of FZ, you might enjoy Frances Stoner Saunders’ book. Besides the contents, the English author writes quality prose that is a pleasure in itself;
http://www.meaus.com/cia-and-modern-art.htm

cheers – I took a read. Nothing too contentious but the allegation regarding South-east asia is not collaborated with any reference and I find it somewhat unlikely.

Also, the charge that he never produced any material against (chemical) warfare is not entirely true. I will spare you a copy/paste of lyrical content with a bomb/war reference but here are some links should you care to read. His general attitude against chemicals is quite well documented.

Dumb all over:
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/dumb+all+over_20057039.html

Jesus thinks your a jerk:
http://www.poemhunter.com/song/jesus-thinks-you-re-a-jerk/

Belated response to a question you threw out a while back, wondering about who to blame for this mess.

Who are in charge of the pope’s security?
What is displayed on the Swiss flag?
How is it that nobody invades Switzerland?
Who were the “Norman” Invaders, really? And the St. Clair clan (Scottish “Sinclair”) who launched the original “crusades” under the standard of the Red Cross?
Have the old ruling classes faded away or are they hiding behind a Red Shield and letting the dumbest of their illegitimate offspring take the fall as puppet politicians?
How transparent can economies and governments be when they are controlled via secret societies?

Another article about legal immunity for makers of swine flu vaccines:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14453

I just came across the news about Hormats being tapped for a position at the State Dept. It’s just not even funny anymore.

Which is the head of this monster that we must declare war on and slay? Is it the Federal Reserve, or is it Goldman Sachs?

Swine born in lab?

Q: What Do You Call 300 Burning Citroëns ?

A: Bastille Day

http://hallsofmacadamia.blogspot.com/2009/07/its-car-b-q-season.html

“How a Pessimistic Ron Paul would fix the economy”…

The little Texan who Could…

More Fed battles ala WSJ…

Oh no!
Madoff and the frogs?

“Lawrence H. Summers (former Treasury Secretary Clinton Repael glass steal act, World Bank Professor Harverd) Was forced out of the Harvard presidency for formulating a personality cult, displaying supreme arrogance, being dismissive of most everyone and being biased against women.

As Clinton’s Treasury Secretary he rejected warnings from Brooksley Born at that time head of the CFTC regarding the regulation of derivatives. Summers called her up and scrammed at Ms. Born, who resigned as a result and who has since proved to be correct, and Summers wrong.

Summers is one nasty piece of work! Summers is calling for more economic stimulus packages – essentially give a-ways – that won’t work. They are stalling measures. ”

Quote: Bob Chapman.

The Case Against Larry Summers:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/

Light

Soft, white, fluid movement
Cascades in sheets
Awakening wings to flight

Skimming, dipping
Salt-spray droplets
Freckles shaded by clouds
Upon the downy greens.

Life alone, then
Mine
Only mine
The free sense of self
Loosely tied belonging
Genuflection sprite.

Stars to windward
Heavy list slows the spirit
Drag deep upon the hull
Upon the faceless paths
Sounding silent, faithful course
Leads home.

There where and there still are a lot of deceptions. Roosevelt said that he at least needed a year to let the propaganda go and work in to the public before he should mingle The U.S.A. into the WOII.

These people where studying PR and Propaganda methods right from the start. Hitler and also Communist China wanted to have a radio in every house to spread their monopoly message.

Just before 911 I thought it could get either way whit the U.S. foreign politics, it can go more intelligent and better or it can go worse. After 911 we discovered U.S. Politics became even worse and roque going for broke burning new made trucks, as a symbol of the over all mind setting; Steel before others steel it for Ya!