[1049] The Truth About Markets – New Zealand – 21 July 2009

Posted on July 22, 2009 by stacyherbert| 51 Comments

Stacy Summary: The Truth About Markets, New Zealand.

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51 Responses to [1049] The Truth About Markets – New Zealand – 21 July 2009

Extra-caporal Confusionist | July 23, 2009 at 3:27 pm |

Having worked as a “healthcare provider” I can add up the whole system in one word – you guessed it MONEY. In countries were “everybody has healthcare benefits” the pharmaceutical companies own the country. The doctors only know how to write prescriptions for drugs and they do a lot of that because in their mind and the mind of the patient “its free”. We all know that’s a lie. There is no reimbursement or benefit for supplements intended to people healthy. Why is that, because the whole system doesn’t work very well if we are healthy. We need to be sick and take our pills for everyone in the system to be happy. It reminds me of the description of healthcare in ancient China: Everybody paid the local herbalist/ doctor every week or month with food or other needs as long as they were healthy. The minute they became ill the payments stopped and did not resume until they recovered to full health. People are happier and productive when they are healthy. Taking chemicals is not healthy. I don’t want to take prescription chemicals nor do I want to pay for someone else to poison themselves with them.
The WHO gives so much praise to the French healthcare system, that is the same system that saved Princes Di when she and Dotie had their auto accident. Oh! they didn’t save her did they.
Learn how to take care of yourself and don’t relegate you good health to criminals. People are much healthier if they stay away from doctors, hospitals and insurance companies.
Nick, Dublin | July 22, 2009 at 10:29 pm |

Yeah I can attest to the mediocrity of many of Dublin’s ‘fine eateries’. I dont know why restaurant prices arent deflating along with other aspects of the economy. Probably cos we’d keep eatin’ and drinkin’ even if the city was burning down & there were gangs of leprechauns prowling the streets. The place is still an absolute rip off compared to nearly all other European capitals.
Daniel S | July 22, 2009 at 12:11 pm |

Chris, thanks for the info about why it didn’t work out.

I’m aware of stop-loss orders but they wouldn’t provide the protection an ETF could. They’ve got some problems but I don’t want to pick at it because I know you were just offering something for me to look into.

Wish I thought more like other people and could come up with a good idea for getting a boycott going. I’d love to see a company like Coca-Cola annihilated. It could have a dramatic effect on the culture of investing that has so many people speaking and thinking of themselves one way while investing another. Suddenly “safe” stocks that conducted themselves badly would seem risky and people might start better aligning their stated values with their money.

I think there are many people with counter culture views who would want to participate who are not part of any organizations. Especially since so many long-standing organizations end up behaving more like corporations than what most would associate with charities. Perhaps the ETF could come first and the boycott later. I dunno. Maybe it would get some attention, rock the boat a little, and people seeing a company like Coca-Cola looking vulnerable could then be enticed to boycott.

Otherwise I expect my water bill to say Coca-Cola one day.
white hunter | July 22, 2009 at 12:08 pm |

@Chris

With my broker, a simple buy order will close the short when triggered. For the novice the best way to short is to “go long” a short fund such as RYVNX. Karmabanque would make a great short fund.
Mr Supergeek | July 22, 2009 at 11:59 am |

@m
den haag could accomodate ‘prunes in the dunes’ I have many great memories of the beautiful beach and north sea jazz festival….am bringing prune seeds next time I visit.

@#2
re: nasty sh**ts……As somebody who previously posted that one of the positives of the recession was cheaper tyres for your car and that prostitutes had to charge less….I’m confused…I know how about a nice day on southport beach (anutha of my favourite beaches) I’ll get the ice creams.
Blink | July 22, 2009 at 10:43 am |

is it possible to download your shows with itunes ?

Thanks
Chris | July 22, 2009 at 10:24 am |

@ Daniel S,

Regarding Karmabanque: Actually, Max has said that finding the people willing to put up the money to go short on the companies was not the hard part. He’s said they were ready to invest. Its just that no major group was willing to be associated with Karmabanque in the boycott. That’s a pity because if any such group, eg. had signed up, they’d be rich now!

When entering I short position, I believe it is possible to put in a stop loss order to “buy to cover” if the price raises above X…but I’m not sure about this.
mike from boston | July 22, 2009 at 9:06 am |

Here is an article about Ben and Jerry’s. You mentioned it a few podcasts ago…

-Mike

http://obrag.org/?p=9046
Anon | July 22, 2009 at 9:02 am |

More talk about Karmabanque, so I ask again:

How to get these idiots out – permanently?

Proposal:

Strategy: James Goldsmith’s Referendum Party meets George Soros’ Black Wednesday.

Using a Karmabanque methodology, massively short the GBP pound (funded by credit cards if neccessary). Use the proceeds to fund as many people as possible to stand as independents in the general election (£500 per submission). At election, totally fracture the political party system, stuff parlament with independents, proceed to rebuild a viable country from there.

Will it work? If not, how can it be made to work?

Forget blasting these comments with yet more links, funnies, and your moral indignation. We know all that. What we don’t yet know is…

How to get these idiots out – permanently?

Help/Contribute.
Ingvend Storrs | July 22, 2009 at 8:12 am |

Is that a day-care centre I hear in the background?
Mark | July 22, 2009 at 8:03 am |

Since 70% of the NYSE volume comes from program trading, and program trading volume is phoney, doesn’t that make the VIX meaningless?
stacyherbert | July 22, 2009 at 7:37 am |

Just finished recording the episode with Dmitry Orlov and Dr. Housing Bubble. It will be out last week of July. This week is just me and Max! And lots of Hank Paulson!!

Right, I am off to Eurostar now to go to London for a few days.

Will be back online with new headlines on the other side of the channel.
Fibon11235 | July 22, 2009 at 7:35 am |

@NicAbbo77
Im in the Cheshire Countryside too lol
Put that repressed technology to use and save the oil.
NicAbbo77 | July 22, 2009 at 7:30 am |

@ Mike .. I dunno about Liverpool, but out here in rural Cheshire 4×4 have reduced only a little; they’re still like flies round a turd! That’s our oil they are wasting, don’t forgot.

Here’s a link to Mike’s China article, goes to the full article without needing to register with the FT, for those with foil hats.

http://tinyurl.com/kluo6k
Fibon11235 | July 22, 2009 at 7:15 am |

@Mike2Liverpool What are the western stock markets to do now, their ponds evaporating? I wonder if they are going to end in a mud bath gulping for oxygen with nothing but algorithms. I wonder how they will and how fast they will react, this is a big announcement but another logical step forward for the those smart Chinese. Bad news for us all in the west?
kitty | July 22, 2009 at 6:13 am |

I heard the kidz these days sniff on burning dustbins or bus stops.
frances snoot | July 22, 2009 at 6:10 am |

@Mike2Liverpool:
Fantastic link about Chinese foreign reserves, Mike! That does mean US Treasuries in dollars, right? EEEEEK.
Daniel S | July 22, 2009 at 6:06 am |

I think Max’s KarmaBanque idea might work if it were altered so that participants wouldn’t be exposed to the full risks of shorting. If Max started an ETF that shorted on investors’ behalf in a way that only put their principle at risk, it would be far more straightforward and likely for people to support it. The problem is with asking people to take on unlimited financial risk (at least in theory) by shorting companies. Even if someone loses a fairly small amount in a short position, if they are leveraged generally and have their credit clawed back, they can get into trouble.

For most people, shorting is just too scary and confusing. For someone like me with limited cash flow, limited cash on hand, and no assets to liquidate quickly in a pinch(margin call), I have to take opportunity loss when I short by keeping cash in my account that I’d otherwise invest. Then I have to watch the shorted stock like a hawk. But putting only their principle at risk to battle these companies is something I think people would be interested in.

Finally I don’t think people should be asked or encouraged to donate their profits. Use the profit motive. Nobody should feel guilty for keeping profits they made by helping to take down a Cruddy corporate. If they keep their profits, should they make some, it’s more they can reinvest in the process to take down the next Cruddy Inc. They should in fact, be encouraged to both keep and brag about their profits made in battle. It could help take the thing viral. If I helped take down one of these companies I’d want to wear a T-Shirt boasting about it and the money I made doing it.
snoop diddy | July 22, 2009 at 6:04 am |

Peter Schiff Vlog 21 July there is no exit strategy
Schiff talking on getting the genie back in the bottle and Bernanke’s inflation/printing money. Fed is inevitably going to have to raise interest rates and they’re going to have to raise them a lot more than if they had sensible rates during the boom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zr98ejtxU
Danny | July 22, 2009 at 5:57 am |

Re: My question yesterday about Bernanke saying “inflation” was prices. I think this addressed it but it kinda went over my head i think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIaEjgXZR04

Bernanke claims the money being created is not going out into the economy but he’s creating bank reserves sitting in the Fed “not chasing any goods”. He also claims he has the tools to counter inflation as this money leaves the Fed.

Doesn’t this sound like complete centralised power? Creating money with no consequence? I’ve got a word for that: WITCHCRAFT!
Goldman Sachs Automated Crime System | July 22, 2009 at 5:49 am |

I see NZ moved closer to Oz this week:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8162628.stm
wildcard | July 22, 2009 at 5:46 am |

Oh, and we have to pay for the privilege.
wildcard | July 22, 2009 at 5:46 am |

Perhaps the department of education should be abolished altogether. It has only served as a tool of indoctrination for the state.
Chris | July 22, 2009 at 5:40 am |

@Max,

You and Paul Watson should talk. He could actually use some help from someone like you. One of the big things hampering his efforts is his dependance on fuel, and thus the cost of oil. Last whaling season (Dec 2008) his successful interdiction efforts were cut short due to a lack of fuel, which he was paying huge amounts for then.

It occurred to me that he could by buying futures contracts on oil at the time when oil is cheapest (I read that SW airlines did this) or hedging in some other way.

Also his main goal is a bit like Karma-Banques’s. He wants to make it so unprofitable for the Japanese Whaling people to continue that they go bankrupt. Perhaps you can think of some other ways to attack them financially.
Chris | July 22, 2009 at 5:30 am |

@Stacy,

Thanks for bringing up education. Here’s my report from the once-great state of California. Its not just the (top-tier) U. of Calif. system (9 campuses) that’s suffering. The Calif. State University system (23 colleges) where I work is also under attack. Last month I lost my healthcare coverage which had been provided by the State to all lecturers working at least half time.

Previously my dept. offered 5 sections of the class I teach (intro astronomy). SInce the course fulfills a Gen. Ed. requirement, all 5 sections were packed with 160 students each. Now those 800 students are going to have to compete for only 3 or perhaps 2 classes. Students have been hit with 10% fee increases almost every year, driving up the debt they will have when they leave (this is compounded now by a longer stay in college). Mind you, the CSU system, not as elite as the UC system was designed for the children of working class families to get an education and a better life. Many of my students are the 1st member of their family to go to college.

The bottom line here is: years of lowered taxes in CA = less money in my pocket, fewer college educated youths, more people on the streets in crime or flipping burgers, ie, good news for the gulag casino state.

In fact the on-line schedule of classes has a warning informing students that the classes they are signing up for might not ever be taught thanks to the budget crisis.
snoop diddy | July 22, 2009 at 5:10 am |

I wouldn’t be surprised if Max runs off to join the Sea Shepherd soon.
Danny | July 22, 2009 at 5:08 am |

“Everyone is saying we should go to the western markets to scoop up [underpriced assets],” said Chen Yuan. “I think we should not go to America’s Wall Street, but should look more to places with natural and energy resources.”

Them Chinese are just too smart…
Mike2liverpool | July 22, 2009 at 5:02 am |

STACY!
STACY!
Stacy!

Is this the BIG one?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b576ec86-761e-11de-9e59-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
Mike
sam | July 22, 2009 at 4:51 am |

AirFix* other model airplane kits are avaiable…
sam | July 22, 2009 at 4:51 am |

oh, sheeiit Max you did not just say you were an AirFix junky!
Mike2liverpool | July 22, 2009 at 4:45 am |

Danny
I ran one in the 80′s as did my father……….both of us without any DEBT these days…………………& those whom laughted…..er Bye Bye 4X4, bye bye home!
Mike
snoop diddy | July 22, 2009 at 4:43 am |

over 3.5million views:

United Breaks Guitars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

the story:In the spring of 2008, Sons of Maxwell were traveling to Nebraska for a one-week tour and my Taylor guitar was witnessed being thrown by United Airlines baggage handlers in Chicago. I discovered later that the $3500 guitar was severely damaged. They didnt deny the experience occurred but for nine months the various people I communicated with put the responsibility for dealing with the damage on everyone other than themselves and finally said they would do nothing to compensate me for my loss. So I promised the last person to finally say no to compensation (Ms. Irlweg) that I would write and produce three songs about my experience with United Airlines and make videos for each to be viewed online by anyone in the world. United: Song 1 is the first of those songs. United: Song 2 has been written and video production is underway. United: Song 3 is coming. I promise.
M | July 22, 2009 at 4:30 am |

I predict people planting fruit baring plants in public locations, mainly because I found a whole buch of them in the dunes, perhaps planted by local immigrants. Free prunes for everyone!

Funny? In Den-Haag? Where, like to see it.

In Cuba people also have been using public locations for growing food.
Mini US | July 22, 2009 at 4:09 am |

@Max and Stacey.
Just trying to understand.
Were those overseas credit swaps ($US500+Billion) designed to prop up the $US,as opposed to propping up the overseas banks?
Mini US | July 22, 2009 at 4:04 am |

Jim Rogers on Bernanke and economy.
Ha!
http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?N=av&T=Jim%20Rogers%20Says%20He%27s%20Wary%20of%2050%25%20Surge%20in%20China%20Stocks&clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vzs8PDYmDYkY.asf
Tofu Charlie | July 22, 2009 at 3:59 am |

@ Stacy & Max — Every time Paul Watson comes to NZ he overflows the venues he speaks at. But the SeaSheps profile in NZ is very small compared to Greenpeace, who have clueless backpackers out fundraising (paid 12 or 13 NZD/hr) everywhere in Auckland and Wellington.

Hope you guys make it out to NZ one day and don’t have to rely on NZ Tourism propaganda. As a Kiwi, I’d warn that the national character is a little bit petty and bitter compared to Aussies, who seem happier and more at ease. (“Tall-poppy syndrome” vs “Mateship”?) Just my worthless, somewhat bitter Kiwi opinion… Max, we have some wonderful solvents also, “I’ll hook you up, bro!”

Thanks for another great show.

@ Anythingbutgreen — thanks, cuz!
Mini US | July 22, 2009 at 3:38 am |

Ok, Hanky Panky says these foreign abnks are short $US.
Like thats a problem?
Mini US | July 22, 2009 at 3:34 am |

@Wildcard.
Yeah, I saw that Bernanke was asked to explain a $US9Billion ‘loan’ (credit swap) to New Zealand. Grayson was great, everything Bernanke said, Grayson ahd an answer to. Shame he ran out of time.
No idea what the transaction was, sorry. But ‘Banke Bernanke Hanky Panky’ seemed to be suggesting he was sending $US Trillions overseas to central banks who needed the money or who were keen to be blackmailed at a later date. TARP type arrangement.
Hanky Panky Bernanke did say that “we have never lost one of these deals” only for Grayson to say “according to page whatever this has never happened before. Hanky Panky the said “Oh, er….”
Blah Blah Blah.
Anyway, thats just my weird summary.
Can’t wait for this to come out and get reported a bit more. The Fed MUST be audited, surely.
Gotta nail these guys. Maybe ‘the club’ will just blow him away when he looks like losin’ it. Just like the mafia in the movies….
Corleoni accent – “Hey, Bernanke’s gonna talk, you know what you gotta do”
Fibon11235 | July 22, 2009 at 3:10 am |

The steering wheel has come off and were heading for a bump.

I bags the Equinox for the date of the FALL lol. Im not hoping it will happen, I’m just mesmerised by a horrific crash in slow motion.

PLEASE do not get upset when I say, I do not think that this collapse is orchestrated, maybe steered at best.

My fear is that its the end of a system life cycle, which may be a lot worse. You see all systems and companies which are systems have life cycles and I think this one is geriatric and about to croak.

Yes and its for all the propaganda corrupt, unfair parasitic reasons that warp enterprise. I really am begining to think its the end as we know and recognise. In biology the effect when the parasite kills the host the host dies along with the parasite. Not good for either party.

What is scary is no one is in control over anything. Even what the city values is not worth anything, its a mess. But I bet when a panic starts the crowd heard in the same direction together.

WHY? We all know this in out bones that is why we come here to waffle on. Collectively we are from all over the world and we know what’s what with our society, families, jobs, shops and industry and government. The whole lots in flux.

Even if the CBs had been in charge, I don’t think they are now! The wheel has come off in there hand and out of control!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinox
Danny | July 22, 2009 at 2:57 am |

@Mike
Re: Cars

The return of the Lada! I vaguely remember in the 80′s when my mother sent me down to the shop with ‘butter vouchers’ the humble Lada everywhere. No boy racers then!
http://www.russiatoday.ru/Top_News/2009-07-15/Germans_take_a_new_look_at_Russian_cars_amid_economic_downturn.html
anything but green | July 22, 2009 at 2:43 am |

New Zealand from the inside:

http://greghallett.com/

Oh!
Mike2liverpool | July 22, 2009 at 2:30 am |

I think we should try to focus a little on the possative side of the depression. I was knee deep with nasty little sh*ts driving BMW/Merc/Audi or large 4X4′s

I noticed vast reducion in numbers & we are only just at the start of things. Given that Max,Stacy & i are expecting “A thing of beauty” by Sept i suspect Britian will go niche market for German Top cars.

Mike
kitty | July 22, 2009 at 2:29 am |

@wildcard et al

Youtube poster marcaeld seems to have hit the nail on the head with his posts re Bernanke.

With clips of questioning by Ron Paul, Alan Grayson and Bill Posey.

I thought ‘great minds… huh’, picking the bits I had thought most telling.
Danny | July 22, 2009 at 2:17 am |

@Max/Stacy

Well that podcast put me into fits of depression! But I suppose its the harsh truth. Don’t aggravate david or he’ll send his evil leprechaun after you!

Yeah, we’re notorious for spouting our ‘smart economy’ – and now instead of pursuing it further, the government wants to introduce college fees and closing down some schools which is facing massive opposition from the public. If I lose my job here I’m definately off to NZ to live life as a hermit. First tub of glue is on me Max!
dadan | July 22, 2009 at 2:15 am |

Say Maori more like “Mouldy” then you got it bro!
chur
Mother Earth | July 22, 2009 at 2:01 am |

Interesting to hear about Maxes views on Seashepard, he hadn’t really explained them. Still if someone steals your cattle with a truck, then why not sabotage the truck instead of trying to ram it on the highway..

Regarding the boycot item, shouldn’t there be a market for that, funded by the competition? Can a water utility say ‘hey, drink from us, its clean and non polluting as opposed to bottled water shipped from god knows where?’. Why isn’t that done more?
Mike2liverpool | July 22, 2009 at 1:39 am |

I enjoyed that one, always a mixed bag, but this weeks was good.
Mike
Phil | July 22, 2009 at 1:33 am |

Executives receive one-third of all pay in the U.S.

According to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Social Security Administration data, more than one-third of all pay in the U.S. now goes to executives and other highly-paid employees:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/21/executive-pay-wsj/

Morning all !
stacyherbert | July 22, 2009 at 1:16 am |

@wildcard – I will look at it later but I do know that the Congressman is Alan Grayson and he was asking about the Fed’s Swaps with foreign Central Banks; if it was 3000 per person in New Zealand it suggests NZ banks had A MASSIVE exposure to those toxic CDOs and other bogus derivative products priced in USD.
wildcard | July 22, 2009 at 1:12 am |

Hey can you guys watch this youtube vid and comment on it? Particularly the 3000 for every person in NZ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ECLxK2YTs
Mother Earth | July 22, 2009 at 1:04 am |

Wonderfull, only rich people will be able to live in a police state I see my flower power revival, bohemian lifestyle at the horizon..

I predict people planting fruit baring plants in public locations, mainly because I found a whole buch of them in the dunes, perhaps planted by local immigrants. Free prunes for everyone!