Stacy Summary: Russia bought 400,000 ounces of gold in September. (They must be getting ready for The Keiser Report). In the meantime, as you can see from the chart below, today, the dollar seems to have fallen out of bed.
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ref. max keiser – Get 6 mo’s free storage
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Rick Ackerman-
- Karl Denninger – Market Ticker
- The Big Picture
- Mish
- David Morgan
- King World News
- SmartKnowledge
- GoldCore
fiat money and the french revolution
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crash banksters – Buy Silver & gold
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/silver/t24_ag_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/gold/t24_au_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/platinum/t24_pt_en_usoz_2.gif)
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Gold is an anachronism.
Being contrary I expect another collapse (if I could time it I would be an insider and making alot of money) within the next 2 years. Oil back over $100 + anything tangible pumped up world wide. QE debtor countries suffer a severe ‘double dip’ and consumer spending collapses again (further) causing another ‘global wobble’ as we still aren’t buying the cheap Chinese goods or gobbling up the resources. The World back into recession but this time it is a full blown depression as many governments are now bankrupted from the first wave of bailouts… cue global integration from the Helgelien Dialectic etc.
Oh and the “Contrary point” is the US DX back to 80+ for short time in initial panic… but then this will create a massive selling opportunity and the dollar will collapse completely this time.
Gold would have value if for no other reason than that it enables a citizen to fashion his financial escape from the state.
William F. Rickenbacker
Looks like Russia is declaring War on its long time enemy, Uncle Sam. Now that Russia has aligned with China and Iran at the Shanghai cooperative, the strategy is being set in place. Destroy the U.S. via financial campaign of gold accumulation and commodity accumulation. Let the paper pirates rot in their own filth like the scum that they are. No matter, Blanfein,Rubin and the other sociopaths all have big palaces abroad so they will escape after converting their own worthless toilet paper into gold,silver,platinum,copper and the like. The Sheeple as in all wars will be the victims.
Incidentally if I could get a recommendation from Stacy or Max regarding where to buy physical gold and silver I would much appreciate it as it is time to add to my stores. Thanks all, bb
Max
Could we have the Gold & USD icons back?
Mike
I wonder what the Archaeologists are going to say about the Dollar USA story looking back? Poor poor America its so sad for them.
Five point framework?
1. Human impacts destroying there own economy ecology.
2. Climate change, environmental change
3. Relations with friendly neighbours trading partners changing.
4. Relations with hostile societies changing worse.
5. Political Economic social changes such as wrong dogma beliefs and don’t learn in time.
This results in collapse.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jared_diamond_on_why_societies_collapse.html
Gold is an agreed upon store of capital when labor exists under a system of currency exchange through which gold may attain a price.
The new system of exchange will be defined by carbon units through which each participatory nation (oops, not an option) must meet a balance according to a set of standards determined by G20/BIS hegemony.
Gold will be an anachronism, just as Canada/JK asserts.
@Mike/Liverpool – find me the embed code and I will put it there . . . can’t get the old code to work anymore; and then for some reason it causes all sorts of problems . . . but I will try it again if you can provide the embed code
What about Acapulco Gold?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTZoyFHIcQ
Pourquoi is that index graph not permanetly on your website..
Gold is soo Spandeau Ballet..Bring back the shoulder fillings!
My bank will hike my card cost by 0,80 Euro (for the year) in 2010! It’s a scandal ! What a rip off! 0,80 Euro!! How about you US people (sorry, ein bischen schadefreude)?
@Stacey, metals embed codes here..
http://www.kitconet.com/webcharts/au_en_euro.html
@Mother Earth – once again, and you already know this, but you totally rock! Have put charts up for USD, CAD, EUR & GBP . . . for everyone’s convenience
watching the dollar reminds me of a famous american story
“Casey At The Bat”
“Casey at the Bat”, subtitled “A Ballad of the Republic Sung in the Year 1888″, is a baseball poem written in 1888 by Ernest Thayer. First published in the San Francisco Examiner on June 3, 1888, it was later popularized by DeWolf Hopper in many vaudeville performances.
In the poem, a baseball team from the fictional town of Mudville (implied to be the home team) is losing by two runs with two outs in their last at bats, but they think they can win “if only” they could somehow get “mighty Casey” up to bat. Two weak hitters manage to get on base, and Casey comes to bat with the tying run in scoring position. The beloved Casey, Mudville’s star player, is so confident in his abilities that he doesn’t swing at the first two pitches, both strikes. On the last pitch, the overconfident Casey strikes out, ending the game and sending the crowd home unhappy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_at_the_Bat
Any truth to the fake gold bars, tungsten covered in gold allegedly discovered in Asia?
Spitzer on regulation/financial reform:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/21/spitzer-dont-let-the-feds_n_328552.html
Stacy, you do know you & Max are going to have to take me to dinner to make up for being SO WRONG on the UK £?
……………don’t forget the hooker either.
Mike
I have a rather naive question for all you economically minded people.
Why are gold, silver, and platinum popularly traded commodities while crystals are not? Crystals are like precious metals in their scarcity, their beauty, their use in jewelry, their hoarding by pirates and kings, their significance in mythological antiquated (and new age) belief systems for having supernatural powers, their uses in technology – computer chips, semiconductors and the like …
Plus they grow naturally, form rather uncanny geometric shapes, refract light in interesting ways, exhibit piezoelectric / resonant harmonic effects, and probably a whole bunch of other shit that an expert could tell us about. So what gives?
Tha’s a lotta graphs..Is tha gold rising on the Comex or are they just happy to see Stacy..
Deutsche Bank makes Euro 1,4 Bln profit, that’s $2,1 Bln ,oh no $3, oh no, $4 damn…I guess Holland will benefit from being the logistics hub of the nr. 1 global exporter country…
@Mother Earth – well, we have visitors from many locations; plus it also helps to have so many charts to determine whether or not gold is rising in all currencies or is it just the dollar falling . . .
@Stacey
I should find a way to carve that compliment out of my monitor somehow..You should see me with a guitar, or better yet, with my guitar on my grandfathers chair
I bought another ounce just the other day. I have a gun in case of an FDR type Confiscation attempt and hiding places. Guns and Gold are survival tools.
Stacy,
I see a currency intervention coming to prop up the dollar. I see the BOJ and the ECB doing it. Germany doesn’t want a Euro at $1.50 plus and Japan doesn’t want a sub 90 Yen. The US is still the third largest exporter in the world. The US actually still produces more goods than anybody and 12 million Americans still work in Manufacturing. It doesn’t seem like it however.
@Stacey
Crossing posts, it looks much better this way..I did’t find an usd index embed yet, but you could simpy include
And just replace [imageurl] above with the stuff mentioned after location is you right mouseclick the image (of a usd index chart)..
Ah the html was deleted from my post
If I were to sumarize the financial fiat currency crisis in a couple of brief points, which points would you use to describe the situation?:
I have chosen (which I tell my friends):
- The currency crisis (with the depression)
- HFT scam on the NYSE
- The shadow banking system (and the transfer of losses to balance sheet)
Stacy & Max, you guys rock!
@Mongo … fiat crisis
day 1) the fiat system was flawed
day 2) glass-steagal act reformed for DEregulation
day 3) banks now had enough rope to hang themselves
day 4) they did
day 5) the US now has no choice but to print money if they want to save their system
day 6) the US tax payers don’t yet know what has been done
day 7) Rome
We can’t forget the Baltic states… http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2bd2458a-bdda-11de-9f6a-00144feab49a.html
@Jeemobon,
The best store of value is in something which can not be created or destroyed arbitrarily. A crystal is just a particular arrangement of a certain type of molecule. Salt is a crystal, though not particularly valuable these days – despite having been used as currency in the past. You are probably thinking more along the lines of things like diamonds and rubies, which are valuable, but are difficult to value and trade without the aid of an expert. Also, since they are just made be rearranging atoms, they can be created, ie: made industrially, using a high pressure and temperature. Metals on the other hand cannot easily be made or destroyed without the aid of a nuclear physicist. Paper, as is regularly pointed out here, is not a good store of value, since it grows on trees. As for digital money…
Actually your question prompted me to find out whether crystalline gold exists. Indeed it does! Most frequently found as an octagonal crystal : http://nevada-outback-gems.com/prospect/gold_specimen/octagonal_gold.jpg
@Phil, thanx
@ Mike 2Liverpool and Stacy and Mother earth
Plenty of charts a nice decoration ..to your site
Aha … The Fed Strikes Back!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMMjyG0RJDo&feature=sub
Swedbank the m——f—— are milking the swedes and at the same time shuffling the money into their losses in the baltics.. I am guessing they cover it all up so they can make those bonuspayments…
btw, read that IMF threatened Swedbank and SEB-bank that if they pull out of the Baltics then IMF will FORCE the baltics to devalue their currency.. how insane is that…
Yesss! Gold uppy again 1,062
JAVA http://www.goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html
“You can’t shop with an SDR, nor trade it or even touch it. Unless you crunch numbers for an international organization like the IMF, Andes Reserve Fund, the Arab Monetary Fund, or the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Basel, the only time you’re likely to come anywhere near an SDR is if an airline loses your luggage.”
http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/special-drawing-rights/
DXY below 75 now… wow, all according to Bens plans
Info on umemployment may be contributing. Some states did see unemployment go down BUT CNBC is reporting that the reason for the decline is the number of discouraged workers is growing. Uhoh!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1302792053&play=1
Whats up with silver… $17 pff somthing is wrong with that. it should be sitting at about $80
Buddabob,
We have been buying gold from Liberty Coin Service in Lansing Michigan since the mid 80′s.
One person is suspected to have died from the swine flu vaccine in Sweden:
“It is a person with a heart dicease in Västernorrland that got an assumed heart attack. As yet we have not found any conclusive evidence this is due to the vaccine shot…” yada yada yada
In swedish but still…
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/vetenskap/140-tal-biverkningar-av-vaccinet-1.979474
How long will the dollar index weighted chart displayed continue to be relevant? Is it relevant now?
@RedZebra
Awesome pic. That thing is wild. Whenever I see something like that I try to imagine the molten soup and tons of rock that led to its formation. It bends my mind to imagine just how or why it forms those shapes. Coolness.
Your answer as to why crystal is not useful as a currency makes sense, although I’d like to extend the idea a step further. In the modern market we need a stable trustworthy currency to deal with massive global trades, but at small scales, throughout human history, anything can be used for barter – shells, salt, gold, a massage, drugs, a sweater, food, etc., and crystals are particularly interesting to me because they seem on the surface to be equally valuable as precious metals, if not more so because of their unique aspects… not so practical as a commodity I suppose, but a decent treasure none the less.
I think the relevance of stock index’s will rapidly begin to loss their credibility as people realise they are not reflecting reality.
Just when I thought I couldn’t be more disgusted to be an American:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/21/insurance-companies-rape-_n_328708.html
Our sick fucking institutions mirror the rot of American society.
Casey at the bat.
Arrogance.
“Pride goeth before a fall”
“The root of all evil is the LOVE of money”
@ Mike2Liverpool Phil and Geek
I think many of you will like this TED lecture although he is having a bad hair day what Jared Diamond is saying has relevance in today’s dollar and financial collapse and what has made the financial system so fragile.
The elite short term interests and escape from consequence destroys the long term interests of the majority in the society!!!
I’m sorry the other link got disabled I think this one works….
Very interesting….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IESYMFtLIis&feature=player_embedded
@Mike/L
Perspective:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GBPEUR=X#chart3:symbol=gbpeur=x;range=5y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
SEC voted unanimously to CONSIDER proposals for regulating dark pools: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091021-711818.html
SEC Statement: http://www.sec.gov/news/speech/2009/spch102109mls.htm
Ron Paul on CNN-Bailouts-Wall St Fraud 10-20-09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66KQ9XvgTLc&feature=player_embedded
Interesting draft deal agreeing on Friday a draft deal that may help Iran
Iran ships Uranium to Russia?
http://www.rt.com/Top_News/2009-10-21/iran-enrichment-talks-group.html
A compounding nightmare!!!! lol
Low- and middle-income households with credit card debt owe, on average, $9,827 on their cards. If you make the minimum monthly payment – often 2 percent of the balance or $10 – at 10 percent interest, it will take you more than 26 years to pay off the balance, including $6,812 in interest.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20091021_A_compounding_nightmare.html
WSWS: One in six Americans in poverty in 2008
http://tinyurl.com/yjrwves
Interesting visual animation of job loss and creation in America
http://tinyurl.com/celyml
GATA: Adrian Douglas: How much imaginary gold has been sold?
http://www.gata.org/node/7908
El Pais: Obama declares ‘war’ on Fox News
http://tinyurl.com/yfysyhp
Oh, the quantum-servers next to the NYSE are having a ball time now..
http://www.nyse.com/equities/nyseequities/MarketMoversActive.html
@Naomi:
Pride cannot be avoided unless one is a jellyfish.
@Naomi:
Evil does not need money to articulate its desire.
Beige book released! It’s getting harder to dodge those bullits..
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fomc-october-beige-book-released
@snoot
How about gay jellyfish?
@ ya all going to like this one …financial , coups d’état……….. dont worry …….Max………….. …………….Mr Moor comes and goes quickly lol
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.09/journal.html
@MotherEarth:
Yes. It’s Good to be Gay and a Jellyfish.
I retract my prior axiom.
It could be argued that Internet 24/7 microsecond forex trading has vapourized gold’s historical function.
I think Stella fell into the briar patch. She sure has been a might ornery today.
@Canada/JK:
Could you elaborate, if you don’t mind?
@snoot
I could, but frankly it would result in an essay which would probably bore people to tears.
In a nutshell, this whole ‘store of value’ thing which has gone on for hundreds (thousands?) of years has no relevance in an era of currency price/value determination measured in microseconds.
America is gone!
Florida Woman’s Rape Called A “Pre-Existing Condition” By Insurance Companies http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/21/insurance-companies-rape-_n_328708.html
Oh.
Do you think Mish was right?
He seemed to brush aside the subject rather readily.
The answer on the recent downward dollar pressure may be found in the rising amount of dollar carry trades http://tinyurl.com/ykynyaw
Canada/JK:
Has the whole pricing mechanism become obsolete? Are you saying that? Are they just foisting nonsence out there to sway public mood?
@ Youri – A week ago, there was a story about an overweight Colorado toddler being denied insurance for “being too fat”; yesterday, a story about a little Colorado girl excluded for being “underweight” (guess she needs to go to Mickey D’s and fatten herself up with some corn products):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/20/aislin-bates-colorado-tod_n_327309.html
I have absolutely zero respect for Americans too fucking stupid to get that our “system” will only be improved after we kill off the private insurance cartel.
A representative for the swedish institute of disease control said the following regarding comments from people in Sweden complaining about the increasing sideeffects of the flu shot:
“The vaccine (for swine flu) has more sideeffects than the ordinary flu vaccine. That is a sign that it gives an effective protection.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOo4Sb_5AjE&feature=player_embedded
Did someone say Jelly-fish??
How about dolphins tossing Jelly-fish into the air with their tails????
It could be argued that Internet 24/7 microsecond forex trading has vapourized gold’s historical function.
The only way that argument holds any merit whatsoever is if you are assume that the forex markets will _always_ function.
How would the forex markets work during a world war?
@Mep
America is gone! Man Arrested for Feeding the Homeless! http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80786541/
@klaos
The multi-node/multi-path architecture of the Internet was designed precisely to withstand disruption by war.
Wiki:
‘The origins of the Internet reach back to the 1960s when the United States funded research projects of its military agencies to build robust, fault-tolerant and distributed computer networks.’
@Klaos:
What is interesting is the simularity to what Canada J/K is postulating, and the Derridian theory of the sign. Currency really functions as a sign because the sign (dollar) calls to mind a signified (value) due to a signifier(price). The dollar acts as a sign. But the change (currency play in an exchange system) is what Derrida designated the trace: the sign cannot be called static because it is constantly changing due to the play of the system. Now the same idea is placed by Canada J/K to gold. He says that the sign, gold, cannot be called a store of wealth as it is constantly changing due to trace dollar functionality.
You, Klaos, are claiming that the sign, gold, is a transcendental signified. A transcendental signified would remain constant during the duration of time/space. Without a pricing currency, you are hoping to determine that gold will function as a sign, ‘hold its value’, due to an intrinic value or metaphysical ‘essense’ even without currency play.
At least I think that is what Canada J/K meant. Made for a lot of tonguetwisting.
Well Done Stacy & Co
Lots of charts!!!!!
……………..Now the French hooker?
Mike
@snoot
No.
Mish:
“Note that it takes less than a second for Forex trades to take place, and 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, one can sell any currency they want and buy any other currency. Logically, it makes no difference if US dollars are converted into Euros one second before a purchase or one second after the a purchase.
Currencies float and so do the price of oil and commodities. Pricing oil (or any other commodity) in Euros will not cause a price change in dollars. Look at gold which is simultaneously priced in everything as proof.”
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/10/ridiculous-hype-over-secret-oil.html
The whole crux of course is value as a function of price, something we are not reading about anywhere. One cannot claim that the play of the Euro is the same as the play of the dollar in the system of exchange.
I’ve been banging on about how Scotland needs independence from the UK so as to avoid going down the tubes. For decades the Scottish nationalists have had to prove their financial model for independence against a shed load of propaganda. They told us the oil was about to run out – that was the late 70s..
Anyway, my ‘UK is bankrupt’ campaign is turning all this on its head. My banging on about it has started having an effect.
So, I am disappointed about no October crash. So many predicted it and it hasn’t happened. I want my T.O.B. Where is it?
Yo
OBAMA ORDERS PAY CUTS OF 90% !!!!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJYVn5B5q1AY
@Canada/JK:
I never said anything about price change due to euro substitution. I said that the currencies play in a system of exchange: float. I indicated that gold is not currently floating in the exchange system as a currency. If the currency systems collapse gold will have no signification.
How does oil float? Oil is fixed to a species of pricing. At present the dollar. People trade oil in dollars. Dollars float in exchange.
“Logically, it makes no difference if US dollars are converted into Euros one second before a purchase or one second after the a purchase.”
Yes, logically. One would purchase the oil in dollar or euros. But the oil price is fixed to the dollar at the millisecond timing of purchase. The oil is PEGGED to a fluctuating currency, but the peg is to a dollar. To say otherwise is illogical.
@Mike/Liverpool
Seems like a propaganda stunt now the banksters already collected their insanely bonuses. If it’s for others it’s rather hypocritical now the golden gifts already have been handed out to banksters and go after the lesser Gods.
Gold is pegged to the dollar for price as well. So is everything. That is what is meant by a reserve currency. Therein lies the euro/oil hoopla.
@snoot
I don’t want to get into an argument.
But oil and gold are not ‘pegged’ to the USD.
The fallacy comes from the fact that they are commonly (MSM) quoted only in terms of the USD.
If you read Mish’s article he points out that it doesn’t matter what currency they are priced in:
“… it is irrelevant what oil is priced in outside of something illiquid like Yap Island stones.”
Watch out below… WFC is tumbling!
Guys,.guys,………..and gals,.when you’ve all decided who’s right or wrong, will it make a difference, and if it does,. how?
And when you’ve all come to a consensus, at least then,…you’ll be equal huh
Isn’t that right Frances?
Abraham Lincoln:
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words: “And this, too, shall pass away.”
Albert Einstein:
The ideals which have lighted me on my way and time after time given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Truth, Goodness, and Beauty. . . . The ordinary objects of human endeavour — property, outward success, luxury — have always seemed to me contemptible.
@Canada/Jk
I agree for gold, but for oil the unpegging is only recent. Before it was required to always use dollars first to buy oil (eg. the price was set in dollars, and dollars needed to be bought, giving it some guaranteed value).
Shares can also be currency free, as long as they are listed internationally. The repersent a portion of ownership which can have a changing dollar value depending on the utility of the company it represents (and then there is al kinds of other factors).
Derivatives and Comex contracts may be dollar denominated.
In order to escape the dollar adiction all (non us) banks seem to need to bite the bullet sometime..Maybe they can come up with an agreement to respect their mutual reserves (non US) as currency but not allow the US to export any more.
@ Youri – OMG! I’m so angry that I’m crying.
@Canada/JK
Mish doesn’t understand the importance that a US Dollar global reserve has to continue the debt creation model propping up the US. Oil priced in USD enables the US to constantly export inflation and remain relatively immune to it. When those oil traded dollars are no longer needed, they will suffer the true inflation previously obfuscated. Every time a barrel of oil is pulled from the ground an equivalent USD must be created. That is ending.
He also confuses medium of exchange with store of wealth.
@CanadaJ/K:
OF COURSE. No arguments. But the system of currency exchange is a closed system. The price of oil will be pegged to a currency, be it dollars, euros, or Yap daps. I still can’t see for the life of me how Mish divorces currency strength from economic stability, but let’s pursue peace else we fight the euro/dollar/oil battle here before one even begins!
(And the oil price is fixed to a currency peg for a period of time, it does not fluctuate with the currency play. The two systems, oil traded on a float exchange and currencies traded on a float exchange doen’t overlap. Set A does not have a union with Set B)
@Dedo:
Are you being a tad sarcastic?
@MotherEarth:
Thanks for the clarity. Being a neophyte I often swim in waters beyond my depth and felt buoyed to safer shores by your addition.
YOURI. THAT’S IT. MISH SAYS WE SHOULD TRADE IN YAP ISLAND STONES ONCE THE CURRENCIES GO PUMPKIN. AND WE CAN PRICE GOLD IN THE STONES AS WELL.
We’ll succeed where governments have failed.
Max
You know is “Bank Hoilday” ……that was coming, sort mid Octy……..Er where is it?…………….Have i missed it?
Mike
@frances
Repeat after me
I WILL PRICE EVERYTHING IN GOLD
Go buy some cool gold tinted glasses and value everything, currencies, commodities, stones, real estate etc in Ounces of gold and world will make sense.
You are only playing games trying to price gold in something else. gold is the constant, everything else moves.
@WL:
I tried taking your advice, but somehow everything seemed priced in oranges!
http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs22/f/2009/248/1/3/Orange_tinted_glasses_by_Aiscion.jpg
Well, that was an exciting evening! I wonder what will happen to the USD and gold tomorrow?
@Frances,……Not really, it’s just I do notice you tend to portray Stella in a somewhat derogatory note.
How does she fair on your egalitarian chart?
@WL:
If I promise to say,
Everything is gold now Everything is gold now Everything….
will you tell why you said,
He also confuses medium of exchange with store of wealth.
(I feel a tad like Midas on steroids)
Deja Vu 2008: Crude Oil Market Entirely Detached from Fundamentals http://tinyurl.com/yz8hybx
Pa! What the heck does de-hog-a-story mean?
What’s that Baby Baccy? Don’t rightly recollec that aword. Them hogs been out loose?
No, Pa. Justsuch some Yankee-lady done call me de-hog-a-story or sum such thing.
Neery you mind, Pumpkin Patch! Why, yer knowing how right special you’un is to your Ma and me. Reckon wordz don’t account for nothin much cept for tarpitch. Slap em on so the rain don’t leak none.
Yes, Pa. I gonna learn me to type so I can putsome my own words to paper! Shoot, they’s done gone useful!
Frances,……LOL,..I like Stella, she may not have a way with words, but she likes pigs,…my kinda gal!!
Dedo:
Shes a’learnin. Cleetus watches the pigs.
Dedo:
Do you want me to find you some tinted glasses so everything go gold on you?
Youri Carma …..This type of (don;t feed large groups of hungry) ordance is being implemented nation wide.
The Powers that be, do not want the image of 1930s type bread lines popping up in sheoples minds. These same herded humansmight start to figure out something might be wrong with the economy . These are the same brainwashed subjects that believe the gov’t line, that states we are out of recession!
Musical Interlude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Uo0CI7j-Zw
Is there a dollar policy or did that stop too?
Max has followers here as well it seems …
…This article says it all. If the banks were to give up hedge fund operations, they would have to downside, lose their infuence in Congress, and be unable to keep the government in it’s hip pocket with fears of systemic collapse.
Banks are making their money and paying their huge bonuses with trading, both up and down. They thrive on volatility which they themselves create, making simple casino bets on price fluctuations, and creating no value to society while using up valuable resources which could better be used in plumbing, electrical, auto repair, and infrastructure.
We are in the iron grip of the financial system, and being reduced to paupers. Until the financial cartel shall be met and defeated, we are doomed. We may as well be gardeners, housekeepers, and masons for Louis XVI and his entourage, building castles and yachts all over the country.
Max Kaiser said we must enjoy being peasants to stand by so passively while our pockets are being picked.
Ron…
http://www.investorvillage.com/iv2/smbd.asp?mb=476&mn=160281&pt=msg&mid=8087318
@Frances,….you know I know you know,……the thing is do they, and if they did, would it make a difference?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp8vhnxTBuM&feature=related
PS@Max has followers here as well it seems …
The article referred to is :
Volcker Fails to Sell a Bank Strategy
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/business/21volcker.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1256148387-sKGuXQnYyZda/Lm461+RNA
@ Dedo and Frances
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgY_2kxeYkk&feature=related
@ Phil
Sod them all
We should set up our own hedge fund club
@ScottfromOregon:
Great link, btw!
@Canada/JK:
Fine!
Red Alert! Red Alert!
You might like this cartoon.
See “The difference between bankers and pirates,” here >> http://stevequayle.com/News.alert/09_Photo_of_Day/091021.photo.of.day.b.html
@Steve .. good one !
Here’s a another joke :
Britain: Man Arrested for Shining Flashlight at Apache Helicopter Hovering Over His House
…“Don’t tell the T a li ban [ spa m bypass ! ] that all they need is a 10-quid torch to bring down some of our finest young fliers in their multi-million pound, high-tech gunships,” he said.
…
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11782
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8317352.stm
@Steve .. good one !
Here’s a another joke :
Britain: Man Arrested for Shining Flashlight at Apache Helicopter Hovering Over His House
…“Don’t tell the T***ban [damn sp*m filter] that all they need is a 10-quid torch to bring down some of our finest young fliers in their multi-million pound, high-tech gunships,” he said.
…
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11782
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8317352.stm
Fourth attempt at posting :
@Steve .. good one !
Here’s a another joke :
Britain: Man Arrested for Shining Flashlight at Apache Helicopter Hovering Over His House
…“Don’t tell the T***ban that all they need is a 10-quid torch to bring down some of our finest young fliers in their multi-million pound, high-tech gunships,” he said.
…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8317352.stm
@Phil,…..any story to capture the imagination of the masses.
(what do you mean they have no imagination)
PS: when I say they,.I mean the folk who use MSM to fill their minds every single day, and form their opinions.
@Sherbert: there they are the kitco.com charts..thanx…saves time from going to kitco…
@frances snoot
Yeah baby, Yeah “Yank it like a miller’s daughter” or what is that saying again from the south. Are you from the south? You so full of writing energy today. Just be sure you put that energy where it belongs.
@ Depression Alert
Well we have two years till the real war3 helter skelter breaks lose and if the American people are not able to rebel in some organized fahsion we all be toast. In a way I am happy that oil goes up and it may go up even higher together with exploding food prices will accelerate the inflation and the system collapses before the crazies start wo3. If oil prices will be lowered soon I no enough than they will strech it.
But what I am trying to say is the sooner the system crashes the better cause now people still have food. With a crash in the near future people hopefully will wake up before they become in a food shortage situation.
Hopefully something will happen in the middle east which will spike oil or somebody else will sabotage. The difficulty is that their are to much stupid people around who still think they can save the dollar, especially in Europe but also in Asia and South America. Everybody should start dumping dollars or they will end up with loads of empty green bags.
If there are any terrorist they are also stupid cause this is the time to get some oil spike done. Sink a ship in the Strait of Hormuz or get some oil pumps sabotaged for a proper oil crises. Never underestood why terrorist should go through such great length to bomb a building or somtin. It’s stupid and history has proven that you lose the harts of alot of people. Hitler bombed London daily for years and the moral of the Brits only improved. Same in Afghanistan where the Taliban is getting four times as big as result of the American bombing.
I am watching eastern Europe… is anybody else?
@Phil
For your entertainment take a look at this site but dont repeat what you may find …….. don’t try this at home lol I was shocked
http://www.instructables.com/
@buddhabob: another possible source for gold ( @ 1/2 troy oz rounds) and silver ( @ 1 troy oz rounds ) is the AOCS,,,I am a currency officer in the US….check it out…AOCS.com
@frances snoot: just now finding out who Stella is…a country girl after my own dear heart.
Jobless flock to sign up for the military http://tinyurl.com/ykmkldn
Ouch, the swiss handed Polanski the the US to ease tension over offshore banking.
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/54994,people,news,polanski-shock-the-swiss-tipped-off-the-americans
I wonder if I should pay that parking ticket i got 15 years ago in NYC.
Richard Russell…
The Fed’s weird tale — The Federal Reserve holds 262 million ounces of gold certificates. These certificates are valued at the old price of 42.22 per ounce. As such, they contribute $11 billion to the Fed’s assets. If the Fed had the guts to mark the certificates to the actual current price of gold, let’s say $1050 per ounce, the Fed’s certificate would be worth $275 billion. This would be a huge help in deleveraging the Feds ridiculous and distended balance sheet.
Then why doesn’t ‘the Fed do this? The reason is that by marking its own gold up from 42.22 to $1050 an ounce, the Fed would be admitting that gold has been rising in price. But the Fed’s business, as is the case with all central banks, is fiat paper — it’s certainly not gold. In marking up their gold certificates, the Fed would be admitting that their fiat paper has been crashing in terms of real money — gold. Thus, the Fed remains in the idiot class, still trying to pretend that gold is not rising against the “junk fiat paper” that they create, even if it’s to the Fed’s own detriment. (Statistics from “Personal Finance.”)…
Ron Paul on CNN yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHGzWFyYGNw
@Richard@Lat30N:
That was really very nice! She preciates it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTYEO1gaRnw
TARP exposed on MSNBC: Dylan Ratigan’s Morning Meeting
@Dante CNN
Forgot you already posted this.
just watched a good documentary of how greenspan, ruben and summers managed to fuck the country by defending the derivitaves market and how Brooksley Born tried to stop them and failed due to the stupidity of congress voting in favor of the wall street mob.
what a tragedy.
they should be in jail for human rights abuses as max would say.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/
@Mike/L
http://www.galmarley.com/ChartApp/Images/USD_Line_1month_300x150.gif
http://www.galmarley.com/ChartApp/Images/GBP_Line_1month_300x150.gif
This is really cool
http://theburningplatform.com/economy/american-pie-1#
Another nuclear expert falls to his death from the same building as the previous one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/6399887/British-nuclear-expert-falls-120ft-to-his-death-in-Vienna.html
Still bank Hoilday?
Mike
@Paul A
thx for link MSNBC = excellent
Ratigan has really latched onto this story.
alex jones new dvd “fall of the republic” is available now if anyone is interested
http://www.prisonplanet.com/pptvlaunch/index.htm
We’re out of the recession bars on the St. Louis Fed FRED graphs…wtf?
http://tinyurl.com/pncm2s
The recession is over?
@Mark 9238
Thanks for the link about the falling nuclear disarmament guy. Story says he was an expert in detecting nuclear tests. Any chance he detected (and was about to report) nuclear tests by a middle eastern nation which won’t say whether or not it has nukes…but we all know it does?
Youri:
My energies I shall direct into writing projects! I appreciate your patience with my practice! Here is a really cool blog I thought you’d like. It is a WW1 blog of letters from a soldier to home:
http://wwar1.blogspot.com/
Here’s one I like. It is a blog about the book Dracula. Lenore’s Poem:
http://infocult.typepad.com/dracula/2009/05/for-the-dead-travel-fast.html
Haven’t been out milking. Milkmaids live in England!
Dedo:
You are right, of course. But the fun is in the trying!
Burger’s “Lenore”, Youri, was translated by a 16yr Rossetti from the German.
http://www.rossettiarchive.org/docs/1-1844.harvardms.rad.html
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told the Reuters Washington Summit on Tuesday that it is ‘deeply offensive’ to the public that financial firms recently on the brink of failure are able to pay massive bonuses to their executives.
Goldman Sachs doesn’t care what the public thinks they are crooks thief’s liars
@Phil- The bloke should have shined an anti-aircraft missle at the apache helicopter for invading his private airspace.
But, seriously, you guys heard Lindsey, what are you going to do/accomplish with your lives over these next two ‘formative’ years.
@frances snoot TnX!
I’ve seen the landscape in Transalvanie in Roemenia where the real Count Dracula originated from on which Bram Stokers story was inspired. And the guys in the only Restaurant we could find in the little near village realy looked like Count Draculas with hear as black as the night.
My first money and best money transfer from Dollars and Deutsche Marken into Lei’s we made in a very pitoreske medieval Church up on a hill. In the Church you saw all kind of tombs from Knights of the big crusade. In fact I traveled the complete old crusade route all the way into Turkey. You find traces of the crusade al along the route from west Europe till East. Very exciting trip it was. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Tomb_of_John_Hunyadi.jpg
I’ve seen the battlefields from WOI in France, Verdun, Fort Beaumont.
WOI was also the first industrialized war. A real industrialized meatgrinder. Nobody could actualy win and when they decided to engage each other they where slaughtered by the hundreds by big brisant granates and heavy machine gun fire on both sides depending who deared to do an attack.
Sometimes they just stayed in their trenches for days cause attacking was the most dangerous. Only when the Brits invented the tank they had some tactical advantage over the Germans and balance the war their way.
We all know how the Germans picked up this Panzer Tank idea and modernize it into a very effective attack machine in the “Blitzkrieg” with rapid movement across enemy lines so that the enemy had no time to recover.
In 1626 Peter Minuit bought Manhattan island from the local Indians for a load of cloth, beads, hatchets, and other odds and ends then worth 60 Dutch guilders. In 1626 would buy you 1-1/2 pounds of silver.
One popular history of Manhattan notes that the Canarsie Indians “dwelt on Long Island, merely trading on Manhattan, and their trickery [in selling what they didn't possess to the Dutch] made it necessary for the white man to buy part of the island over again from the tribes living near Washington Heights. Still more crafty were the Raritans of [Staten Island], for the records show that Staten Island was sold by these Indians no less than six times.”
The latest crop of New York historians has taken pains to point out that there is no evidence either the Dutch or the Indians believed they had robbed or been robbed by the other party to the deal.
…and that’s where the International central banking model came from Johnny.
@American peasant in Uppah US:
Yes, and Wall Street was the first gated community!
Sometimes they just stayed in their trenches for days..
Youri: write a book.
“The countdown is to a point where it is clear that confidence in the US dollar has reached a point of no fast or meaningful return.
There are 18 days left, and it certainly looks like what has been anticipated in time cycle is in FACT happening.”
http://jsmineset.com/
EIGHTEEN DAYS???
Put some silver tickers up, and note the 3m moving average trends for the price of silver.
How platinum and palladium are doing, I have not looked.
NZ political cartoons worth noting :
The Afghan Hound
http://www.nzcartoons.co.nz/cartoonist1.php?nist_id=4&image_id=4_1255490972
++++
New Zild – The Story of New Zealand English
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/new-zild-2005
Putting our Town on the Map
http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/putting-our-town-on-the-map-1995
Capitalist shortcuts will turn airliners into dead flys…
“Facing intense competition from foreign maintenance companies, American and its mechanics have collaborated to cut the time and number of workers needed to complete a major overhaul called a “heavy check” — during which mechanics strip the interior of the plane all the way down to the skeleton. The overhaul now takes 12 days instead of 22, and a little more than 300 workers, down from 700.”
Source: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113971588&ft=1&f=1006
Found this link over at Shenandoah:
http://www.rgemonitor.com/globalmacro-monitor/257860/the_snowball_of_derivatives_the_specter_of_a_second_black_swan
http://johngaltfla.com/blog3/2009/10/21/youre-reading-assignment-tonight-courtesy-of-the-rge-monitor/#respond
oops wrong link again:
http://www.johngaltfla.com/
OMG!
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE59J66820091020
“The United States may face a series of asset price bubbles and a rerun of the financial crisis unless it lets the dollar fall “at least” another 25 percent, economist Bernard Connolly said on Tuesday.
Because fierce international resistance will likely prevent such a large dollar devaluation, Connolly told Reuters the Federal Reserve may instead have to extend indefinitely its artificial support of a struggling U.S. economy by purchasing another $2 trillion in U.S. Treasuries and federal housing agency debt.”
@Stacy
Unwelcome guests produced a program with Max Blumenthal, John McMurtry covering sado-politics and totalitarianism. They mapped out more of the geography of the territory you were discussing about Dobson and Spock…
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/36637
thanks to all for the gold store recommendations.
Incidentally someone was talking about the Dutch purchase of Manhattan. Have you heard the story about how when a tribe up the Hudson got unruly, the Dutch sent war boats up the River captured their leaders and warriors, chopped their heads off and took them back down to Manhattan where quite literally they played soccer with them on a street that was later to become ‘Wall Street’? Also didn’t Wall Street at one time act as a trading block for black slaves? The karma of that place is so intensely foul that the devil himself would have to hold his nose to cirumnavigate it.
I bet Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan are thrilled to see that they will be excluded from any White House-imposed compensation downgrades.
Letter from America
Imperialism, Goldman Sachs Style
But what that panel discovered in Arendt’s writings on imperialism, which were part of her larger “Origins of Totalitarianism” work, actually echoes eerily and powerfully recent financial events.
The crucial point is that for Arendt, the era of imperialism, which she believed began in the 1870s and lasted until the outbreak of World War I in 1914, marked the moment when the economic principle of unlimited growth and expansion came to dominate politics. It was the point at which private people pursuing great wealth, in essence, seized political power and made the protection of their interests the policies of the state — and it’s not all that hard to see something like that happening today.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/us/22iht-letter.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print
http://tinyurl.com/yjlkrr5
Is Buffett Becoming A Lagging Indicator? http://bit.ly/1PzZrp
Jim Willie made a call about the yet Unknown losses in the commercial real estate. He said that it could be a bummer. Fed Beige Book: Commercial real estate, the weakest sector .
Federal Reserve District report October 2009 PDF http://bit.ly/1lCava
The Twelve Federal Reserve Districts Little color map
http://www.federalreserve.gov/OTHERFRB.HTM
Bank of America Spotted ‘Read and Weep’ Merrill Loss
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aRIyAxku.v9k
Obama NPP? http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=141109.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHng2_ZMXFg “Der Himmel ueber Berlin ‘ wim wenders film about reconsecration of berlin as a city .and choosing to take our rightful place in the world , to live not as as angels but real people., at the end of the film just as the angels are made fully human a suit of rusty old armour drops from the sky .this is a film most berliners will get straight away , we should all learn to take our rightful place in the world. in this way. learn to make it real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi8sYY0pCdE my favourite scene in ‘ himmel ueber berlin’ [wings of desire] the angels go to the library to help people with their homework , one angel steals a pencil, something that he should likely need should he become fully human. [ perhaps when w e are all gone we can go to the library and help people wit their homework like this ? ,don't forget to steal that pencil ,just in case we need it !]
max & stacy ,. if you are lucky enough to get Barbara Ehrenreich as a guest / contestant on the show ,could you please ask her, her views as to why it is that there has been almost no response to what has happenned ,is happening ,will happen ? thankyou.
Alan Grayson says Fox News is the enemy of America:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/22/grayson-republicans-fox-n_n_329529.html
Fall of the Republic-The Presidency Of Barack H Obama-Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJG-Htk3FPc
Alex Jones’ new documentary for those who are interested.
Just viewed the film “Fall of the Republic”. Max gave some good interviews. There is a lot of food for thought to be taken from thisfilm. http://www.infowars.com/
@Chris – Story says he was an expert in detecting nuclear tests. Any chance he detected (and was about to report) nuclear tests by a middle eastern nation which won’t say whether or not it has nukes…but we all know it does?
If there is foul play here, it would be for the exact opposite reason . . . he needed to find evidence to support war because that is what the machine wants; if he were saying that there was no evidence, he needs to be replaced.
@m – rss sadly… no would it be quicker???
@fib – cheers for the link… will check it soon!!!
@frances – ‘Evil does not need money to articulate its desire.’ I love it when you talk dirty!!!
@larry – seen ‘wings of desire’ too many times beautiful imagery but can’t remember much of the plot… should watch ‘american friend ‘ one day… I suppose wim can be forgiven for his work with U2… after all… coz he did buena vista social’… and ‘paris texas’ etc.
y’all – ‘King Midas in Reverse’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_-XSGcjIhM
Morning Gang!
Morning Stacy
Bank hoilday?
Mike
US Zero-Tax filers
http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2008-10/001068.html
@buddhabob
Language problems with the Dutch still exists. Check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUEkOVdUjHc
@y’all
I liked ‘The Hollies’ I’ve got it on vinyl somewhere but never played it… I just saw the title years ago and thought it would sound nice… before this thread dies… an aztec image???
http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/uploadimages/355_06_2.jpg
@ray
yeah it was a cool link… cheers… don’t like american pie… and I have always felt the 50′s ended in 62 not 63… IMO… but interesting site I am enjoying lookiing at… always looking for igood nfo to help me spank those baby boomers!!!
@subtropolis
oops almost forgot…cool link!!!
The muppets or sesame street… who ware the best there is only one way to find out…FIGHT!!!
The pointer sisters-sesame street number count
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-YcBVEnLT8
@Dante:
The crucial point is that for Arendt, the era of imperialism, which she believed began in the 1870s and lasted until the outbreak of World War I in 1914, marked the moment when the economic principle of unlimited growth and expansion came to dominate politics. It was the point at which private people pursuing great wealth, in essence, seized political power and made the protection of their interests the policies of the state — and it’s not all that hard to see something like that happening today.
A close look at history would reveal that the influence of nefarious men in political proxy influencing the policies of the state did not suddenly arrive with the Industrial age but has been the mainstay of governing structure throughout the ages.
Another conference participant, Tracy Strong, professor of political science at the University of California, San Diego, noted the attention Arendt paid to Cecil Rhodes, the British ruler of colonial southern Africa, who said he would annex the planet if he could. What the Bard conference did was draw the line from Rhodes to Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, A.I.G. and others who were too big and central to the American national purpose to be allowed to fail.
1. Will the conference lead to a trial of the criminals and prosecution?
2. Why are the European entities involved being given a clean breach?
3. The train of command leads to the BIS conglomerate and the IMF: those who control the currency flow and interest rates worldwide.
@Mep:
You put too much confidence in that Grayson guy. Fox News has a right to exist in a world of free speech: words are not the enemies of freemen, but words are the enemies of cowards. The demise of America will be due to an unsustainable Federal debt which both parties ignored.
Grayson needs to get verbally potty-trained.
@frances snoot – I agree that the whole ‘enemy of America’ thing is a bit frightening coming out of a politician’s mouth; Fox News, however, is an outright propaganda arm for the military industrial complex and are also fabricating groups of protesters, etc., so I think they should either have to move to cable where they can have their free speech but not with the public airwaves; or have a disclaimer always running on the bottom of the screen stating that they are the propaganda arm of the US military
@Stacy:
Come on. Are you telling me that Arriana Puffington should be allowed to continue to shill for the same Military Industrialists for which you desire to deny Fox the rights? Is it the message you despise or the sponsor?
@frances snoot – there is ZERO comparison to be made between Fox News, which operates on the public airwaves licensed by the government and which is supposed to have a public service obligation, and Huffington which is on the open internet to which there is ZERO barrier to entry; anyone can go to an internet cafe and start a blog on blogspot or wordpress for free to give their own opinion that is counter to Huffington
“fabricating groups of protesters”
That statement is a leap of faith. No one can prelate what occurs in the minds of frustrated Americans protesting at this point. To do so is to align with forces denying American’s free speech and the right to assemble.
THE HYPOCRISY OF IT ALL IS SICKENING. The G20 came after protesters and the innocent bystander with the full force of tyranny. Well? Not a peep.
Capital controls, controls on free speech, controls on the right to assemble, controls on the press, controls on the right to medical decisions, triaged health care according to state access of citizen viability to state needs….
It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas for Lord and Lady Bluffinstuffs.
@Stacy:
Yes, actually there is a comparison between the two. In the US they are both operating under US Constitutional law, First Amendment rights to a free press. Or are you advocating a new system of jurisprudence for the US; say something on the order of Obama’s rhetoric, where we combine US constitutional law with ‘shared values’? Can’t have it both ways.
@frances snoot – that is a false argument; as I said, Fox should be free to air whatever manufactured news and opinion they want on cable;
if the US still enforced the obligations that used to be demanded for the right to use the airwaves for free, then it would look a lot more like the UK where these obligations, while loosening for sure, are still enforced
Here is commissioner Michael J Copps on what the US free to air is supposed to look like:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/02/opinion/02copps.html
America lets radio and TV broadcasters use public airwaves worth more than half a trillion dollars for free. In return, we require that broadcasters serve the public interest: devoting at least some airtime for worthy programs that inform voters, support local arts and culture and educate our children — in other words, that aspire to something beyond just minimizing costs and maximizing revenue.
Using the public airwaves is a privilege — a lucrative one — not a right
@frances snoot – Jefferson, my favorite founding father spoke often of the need for a free press, but he also said this,
“The most effectual engines for [pacifying a nation] are the public papers… [A despotic] government always [keeps] a kind of standing army of newswriters who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, [invent] and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper.” –Thomas Jefferson to G. K. van Hogendorp, Oct. 13, 1785. (*) ME 5:181, Papers 8:632
Propaganda is against the law for a reason.
“If the US still enforced the obligations that used to be demanded for the right to use the airwaves for free, then it would look a lot more like the UK where these obligations, while loosening for sure, are still enforced”
According to whose standards? Yours, Stacy? The Democratic party? UNESCO?
Obligations to support monied interests can be enforced through regulation as much as non-regulation.
– that is a false argument-
What precident to you lean on to further your arguments, Stacy? I refer to the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. You lean on the NY Times opining through their resident shill.
And we KNOW the NY Times isn’t biased. Or, are they? Didn’t they mess up a bit in the news coverage concerning the Iraq war and a certain rumour regarding weapons of mass destruction? Didn’t they make a public apology? Should we shut down the NY Times? Are they ‘safe’?
The state cannot call legal jurisprudence based on the standard of “shared values” without defying US Constitutional documents. Or are you prepared to argue on a legal basis?
Warm fuzzies won’t cut it.
Propaganda is against the law for a reason.
Thomas Jefferson was not arguing a case for limiting the freedom of the press! The way to fight propoganda is not through statist controls but through an educated citizenry. Statist controls are inherently corrupt and corrupting in their influence.
@frances snoot – hey, you are free to have your opinion that Rupert Murdoch is the best possible candidate to manage his share of the half a trillion worth of the limited spectrum public airwaves and that because of free speech he can manufacture any news he wants and take talking points from the white house and if the people are too stupid to know that this info comes from the white house or military then tough luck on them; and I am free to believe that there ought to be some standard by which the privilege to this spectrum should be held; I believe in total free speech including whatever hate speech, anti race speech, anti religion speech, or general anti anything that you want to spew when there is no barrier to entry . . . ie pamphlets, blogs, newspapers, etc; but until there is an infinite broadcast spectrum, then having free use of one of the public airwaves has to have obligations . . .
as it is, you have the situation you desire and Murdoch, GE and Comcast are free to express their opinions . . . so are those that agree with them and this situation who then get to use their public airwaves privilege to endorse the opinions freely expressed by Murdoch, GE and Comcast
@Stacy:
Yes, perhaps the EU has propaganda laws as well as hate crime laws. But Thomas Jefferson had nothing to do with them.
Jefferson’s ideals were egalitarian and non-statist. You, Stacy, have a serious problem with interpretation of US Constitutional precident.
“you have the situation you desire”
Desire? Me? Goodness, did I write the documents for which the legal framework of my country is bound? Am I to have my own personal agency inserted within the system of British common law?
Oh! GOODY.
@frances snoot – the NY Times is NOT using the public airwaves; there is no barrier to entry to starting a newspaper, a magazine, a pamphlet, a website or a podcast; there is a barrier to entry to gaining the license from the government to the limited spectrum of the public airwaves . . . it is handed out free with a public service obligation; it is ILLEGAL to just start your own radio station without a license, you are NOT free to start your own tv station without a license . . . that means it is a closed system and therefore additional obligations are assigned to being granted a license to this . . . and very obviously when the Constitution was written freedom of speech referred to newspapers as there were no television channels on a limited, finite and closed broadcast spectrum in the 1700′s; if you object to the public service obligation and if you object to the outlawing of propaganda on that then you should direct your commenting anger toward getting Voice of America the freedom to express their free speech into the US . . . they are not free to air into US either . . .
if the US still enforced the obligations that used to be demanded for the right to use the airwaves for free
WHEN?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
Right. America was really lucky for those laws.
@StacyHerbert:
We seem to be dancing four-square. You are claiming the state has a right to authorize use of the air-space according to a set of standards for the good of the public. I am falling back upon the Constitution as a failsafe according to the first amendment.
But what stands at stake here is who is to decide what standards necessitate the quality of ‘good’. I’m afraid that is a subjective declaration, no matter how you go at it, and not in the best interests of a free society.
We might as well lead the dumb sheep about by the nose. We haven’t reached that point yet?
license from the government
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT.
license to protest
http://www.g20media.org/
license to practice religion
http://www.10news.com/news/19562217/detail.html
license to assemble
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070916044639AAWICi3
Yep. That’s what we all need. Don’t dismantle Dept. Homeland Security. We need to be SAFE. Keep that Patriot Act coming! And now, let’s regulate those damned conservatives. They’re extremist agitators!
Look: What are we going to fight for? There’s a battle comin on and none of us can avoid it. Look-see, here in America the politicos take an oath to support and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. According to the news and events, it seems that that oath is being cast aside. That the oath no longer is meaningful cause times change.
Times change but people don’t. To me, the Constitution itself is what represents America: it is what has not changed. Yes, interpretation changes. But no, the legal framework shouldn’t. And just because Stacy or Max or whoever-be-bah-hoots decides that it won’t and shouldn’t be followed doesn’t mean it is not the best god-damned legal framework for protecting the rights of individuals under its jurisdiction. Yes, America has sinned. We are still sinning. But once the Constitutional rights of Americans are extinguished you can pretty much shut the lights off in Europe.
I think HuffPo is FAR more dangerous than FOX. At least everyone agrees FOX is total propaganda bullshit but HuffPo still maintains an air of credulity to half the voting automatons.
Arianna was a NeoCon, remember? Once a NeoCon, always a NeoCon.
@Frances,.and StacEy,….Please keep your noise down, I’m trying to think!!
HA!
How do ya like dem apples…dollar bashers?
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney10192009.html
The dollar is not going to crash. There may be grumblings in foreign capitals and “secret meetings” between finance ministers but, for now, the dollar appears to be safe.
This statement completely ignores reality.
The Fed will need to use the 12 steps AA program uses for their addiction to the dollar.
The 1st step: The Fed admits it is a powerless global currency – that its books have become unmanageable.
@PezinUpperUS:
What currency do you trade/getpaid in?