Stacy Summary: Morning y’all. Visited 321energy.com and saw this surprising chart.
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ref. max keiser & Get 6 mo’s free storage
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Rick Ackerman-
- King World News
- Mish
- Karl Denninger – Market Ticker
- Michael Hudson
- ZeroHedge
- The Big Picture
crash banksters – Buy Silver & gold
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Most recent: 
so how does one get a default pic?
because there are a few people i noticed way back who did not know what a smurph is let alone a riot smurph
@Chris:
I didn’t mean to judge you about judging people!
Better to allow people the option to believe according to their own precepts than insist on foisting truth down their unwilling gullets.
Quantum physics is looking to a flat type model for the universe now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/727073.stm
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html
(But of course I know myself to be a champion of my own true: just I hope I never called it truth)
@Frances
I absolutely do NOT judge other’s beliefs. If you drew that conclusion based on anything I said, then you were mistaken.
The notion of “close minded people”, ie those who will only accept “evidence” which supports their preconceived notions, and ignore all other evidence, was suggested by RJ. I concurred that such people do exist. It is hard to have any meaningful discussion with such people.
I accept all evidence which can be documented, whether it supports my current perspective or not. If anyone brings forth well supported claims which refute one of my viewpoints, I will thank that person and acknowledge my error. That is the whole point of discussion, and argument, and is the strength of discussion pages like this, when the discussion is done in that spirit. We all know that discussions can devolve into a much less constructive mode.
close minded people
I think close-minded people and open-minded people are a figment of your imagination, Chris. Who brought you up to judge so nicely and precisely another’s beliefs?
@RJ,
Yes there are close minded people out there who ignore all evidence and claim the world is flat, etc. However, among people who respect evidence, we can come to a consensus by developing theories and testing them with observations. This is the scientific method. Here’s an example of how people who disagree on “everything” agree on science: whether you are an atheist China, Jewish Isreal, Hindu India, or Islamic Pakistan, you all agree that if you get enough Uranium 238 together you’ve got yourself a nuke.
GW denial is a religion. People will believe in it without any regard to evidence (this is show by the fact that no GW deniers on this site felt the need to refute my 5 points). Lets focus on who profits: Exxon, Haiburton, etc will make far more money than Al Gore. If Al Gore becomes a billionaire by getting the CO2 level down below 300, then I say more power to him. A billion dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of global warming, and also a drop in the bucket compared to Exxon’s profits. ($13 billion per quarter if I remember)
Chris
The problem with evidence is people will always find evidence to support their beliefs.
Global warming in now a religion to many so is pointless discussing the finer points on a site like this.
So just focus on cap and trade. This is will benefit people like Gore and Goldman Sacks. This should in itself set alarm bells ringing
If I pay a tax it should go to a Govt (as a tax) to spend on pollution control etc not to traders and bankers.
@Bonn:
Is Carbon Dating when one is stuck going out with an old broad?
RODFL nice one the Good looking chicks are directly proportional to the size of your Wallet
“If i can proove Craters are a direct result of Cancer”
sorry the other way around
RODFL
“Cancer a direct result of craters” LOL
That would mean if i had Cancer i could cause a meteor to Land ROFL no offence intended to Cancer people PEACE
it might be a paradoxymoron.
A moronic irony.
mondo-Peroxide
Still Laughing nice one RODFL PMSL
N trust me the guys who translate this stuff have no clue who Gietner is or Paulson or ben benarke
or Greenspan
@ J
So the citys coulda been any place on earth
“Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor”
take that in todays context what would u think of
Su-30 Flying with a nuke comes to mind, the citys well if he was flying he already knew the earth was round. hic
Plus I have a facination with Sunken Citys
Like Atlantis
or the one which has Sunk of the coast of Bombay/Mumbai
Interstingly Mumbai’s former name is “BOMB-BAY”
never thought about that till now RODFL
tell me man since you’re into it, where else on the net can one find some solid clues to the history of mega-ancient civilizations?
There is lotta Evidense though circumstantial that sujests that buildings n stuff in history are Fused together that kinda happens only when a nuke pops
All speculative but worth pondering
@alistair:
I don’t claim any special authority, no. However the 5 undisputed facts I have gleaned are enough to raise concern in any thinking person. Since no one has refuted any of these facts so far, I assume that we can all agree on all 5.
(Of course, if you want, you can always “prove” I am a liar by simply claiming that I’m a member of the Bilderburg group)
@photoception
This graph alone makes it clear that the latest huge rise has no natural precident. Since we know how much CO2 humans produce there is no doubt that this latest spike is human-induced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr.png
@Frances,
Yes, I spoke only of the science. IF there is a market in greenhouse gas emission I am 100% sure Goldman Sachs will try to game it. I’ve learned that much from 1.5 years of listening to Max & Stacy.
Regarding Cap & Trade, I am skeptical. Something similar was tried in Calif a decade ago, but failed because the cap was set to high (for other types of pollution).
However if you criticize cap & trade you need to come up with an alternative which will bring global CO2 levels down to its normal MAXIMUM for the last half million years: 300 ppm.
What’s your solution?
@WL:
You are the only commenter, as far as I can tell who attempted to challenge the 5 global warming facts I put up. Thank you. You said:
“All matter absorbs IR. We do not know the isolated impact of CO2 in the atmosphere. It cannot be measured. ”
Both statements are untrue. IR absorption CAN be measured very precisely; I have done it. For example Oxygen (O2 and O3) has only a small absorption of IR (one sharp peak) Other gasses have almost none. While CO2 has a lot. Here’s one simple graph to illustrate this.
http://www.bwebcentral.com/articleswap/viewarticle.php?uID=466
@Photoception
“When they look at the ice cores and such and see a rise in Co2 can they analyze the chemicals in and link it fossil fuels?”
The ice cores are most useful for the older data. For data within the last 50 years, we have had the tech. to simply sample CO2 levels in the air directly. A marked increase is noticed. No, you can’t trace a C02 molecule to its source, but that hardly matters since we know that CO2 output by humans has increased, and we know by how much. Every new gas car = more CO2, every new coal factory = more CO2. You just take the total amount of energy in BTU’s produced by fossil fuel burning and multiply a number to get the volume of C02. Obviously the number of cars and coal plants has not been going down. There are other sources and sinks of course which contribute to the total CO2 content (eg ocean can dissolve CO2, rainforests, etc. )
Cool. Where to I buy the stuff ?
“If i can proove Craters are a direct result of Cancer”
by the way Sharan Chhoker said tis
N PMSL everybody uses “White Lies”
oooo i talkin all nonsense ROFL PMSL
” It is human Nature to Bet only when he knows the outcome” Well if he looses he did’nt know what he bet on
The elites know this so they play both sides of the game so that more people get involved
Non Complyance will hopefully rule
They all Mytholgical but i tend to look at Myth’s more closely hmm i feel right now the Elites have written the Bible n the Khoran both are very Similar
N now theArmegeddon
So they following the Bible is what i belive because they control both or all six sides of the dice
So they know the outcome n they can never loose
“I WOULD DO THAT TOO”
@ Jeemobon
Take a white Ball draw the map of the world
put it on a spindle after its dipped in Glue throw popcorn/sand what what ever from all angles or use a computer i had access to a super comp in 2000
And if you can replicate whats happened on earth
hats of to you
Personally physical Exp. always closer to the truth but the re- entry n stuff thats math n all where some metores might bounce off but personally
I really think it was a Nuke war
again ignored so tata for some time hihihihi
“Thinking otta the box has always been Ridiculed”
but i like the fact that it bites people on the arse later
luckly i am protected with freedom of speech
googled it up. Yeah I might have a couple speculative answers to the meteor question:
-magnetic fields
-cluster meteor clouds(as I said before)
-thermonuclear de3vices
-some peculiarity of meteor orbit paths
I mean really, who the hell can answer that question?
I liked this passage:
Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashesthe entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.
tell me man since you’re into it, where else on the net can one find some solid clues to the history of mega-ancient civilizations?
And China
AAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
RODFL
the metors have missed the largest Land Masses on Earth namely Africa and Russia
RODFL
towards the END ie
oh i can explain WW2 Funded by Rothchilds botj sides
Again i will be called a looney
n Hitler probably died of old age
Again Common Sense put yourself in his place u would have 3 doubles at least
From what i belive he spent his latter years in south America
All i do is put myself in his place and emm err —- that makes sense death or a beach with a billion dollars
Well Bonn I will never ridicule you. We are handed down all these narratives and stories and any sense of agreed upon historical events gets so convoluted, I mean there are lots of discrepancies about details of events that happened in something as recent as WWII, depending on which side it’s coming from, even today we have this mind-fuck going on in the world and the real deals that are molding the planet are going by in darkness, and it seems people want to stay in that dark place, what the hell, I value variance of opinion just dont care for the dark-aged uni-mind
they missed the largest lands on earth save Aus n North America plus Northern EU
Thats fuckin Strange as hell
dude that is a shit ton of fucking nukes. I mean it could be attributed to a cloud of meteors striking one face of the earth around the same time… what else do you have to go on?
@ J
Why Are metores so Selective where they land
Why did they miss most of Russia and africa ?
nobody at this site has had the guts to answere that
See most of the Vedas were written on Leafs
What promts a guy to write on leaves
Google “Vimanna Shastra Astra”
this Doc. was found in a budist Monastry in Tibet
Its in Sanskrit
currently being translated by a Dr. Anjali from Chandhigar
N the best part of it is everyone at this Site Knows Something aint right thats why we convene here
RODFL PMSL
all senses boil down to vibration of nerves which transmit into electrical impulse or so I am told, it is all one sense, all within a spectrum, harmonics of the funda-mental.
I was also told the Veda dudes whoever they were were onto something
i think perhaps i’ll get ridiculed again
@ Jeemobon
By the way i am claming that there was a far more advanced civilization than us that existed on earth
n they had nukes n we blew our selfs apart n I live in India n there are Mythological storys about World War
Mahabharat which is a world war
Now who would spread a story which was a world war over 2000 years ? using again common sense thats all
@ Dedo
@Bonn,…sixth sense paradigm is old school,….apparently there are now 9 senses,…for now that is!
Mathematically i can add as many diminsions i want XYZ axis as we were taught in school
Plus i can add time as a diminsion
Like we follow a 3 Diminshional object called Gold over Time
at the same time i can add a few more D’s Special interest
Population
De ” Beers on it control of Worlds Diamonds supplys
So u can make lotta models
There are some 44 D’s models u can make
but so long as its controlled it aint real
My 2 cents
LOL Bonn I think I need another drink
n they cant shut it down, too many connections
And all historys on earth have to be the same my contention is what if it all happened together i spoke 4 or 5 worlds to me grand dad cause i was 12 in he was on his death bed at 76 but i did manage to speak to a 88 year guy some time back n he was it really happened but still i doubt that cause communication has changed now Dramaticaly
So i wonder when the Elites gonna shut this internet down cause Combined thinking will fuck a super computer up its arse
yeah man well as far as empirical scientific evidence versus sicksense, I’m mighty torn, but I do feel intuitively that my own experience of this very moment is not entirely to be trusted as “real” “truth” or what have you, much less some old croaky intellect telling me that carbon dating is accurate and we can measure the age of the universe, although at the same time I have to lend some credit to people who have devoted their lives to understanding some facet of existence knowledge and can speak and teach us with some confidence about the life of stars and the sun, the geological history of earth and the planets, comets, black holes, the origins of DNA, the nature of particles and waves, the migration of dolphins, the proliferation of infectious disease, human psychology,
but really we dont know shit do we. Knowing is a trap. Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth…
@Bonn,…sixth sense paradigm is old school,….apparently there are now 9 senses,…for now that is!
@Bonn:
Is Carbon Dating when one is stuck going out with an old broad?
or some crap like that
History’s ie cause lotta Jokers gonna say they won for sure n find the truth in the maze of false wins RODFL
b/w cultures
Like Ankor Vat is so precisely built to an error of 2 inchis i think and again it ‘s oriented toward Orion Constillation
I mean rather then betting on Carbon Dating i would rather focus on the Cronological events of history that makes more sense
Many learn-ed men think the world is their own palate to paint for us a picture from their imaginative cognition. Perfectly fine as long as we don’t have to bow down and worship it.
@ Snoot
Thanks mate
Yes. Bonn I agree about carbon dating: it assumes a unitary history to the planet.
Really quite a childish view.
U cant Proove carbon Dating is right
U cant Proove Carbon dating is wrong
“Thats what the Scientests Say”
I say Bull shit
PEEPS Bull shit if it is advantages to em
That is 90%
sure but i gather that people at this site are moderates
they take every thing with a pinch of Salt
which i like
@Bonn:
I NEVER IGNORED YOU!!!
For Example Lets check this Carbon Dating nonsense
How do you proove it is wrong or right
People have shut off thier 6th sense that is Common Sense
@ Jeemobon
I would rather not talk cause i got ridiculed and ignored at this site before so i am safe now
@ Jeemobon
Good charts, I did not know AU was as addicted to cars as the US.
dude that is a shit ton of fucking nukes. I mean it could be attributed to a cloud of meteors striking one face of the earth around the same time… what else do you have to go on?
It’s anomalous.
And i belive there was an Ancient Nuke war so i gues u’ll think i am cooc coo too RODFL
Specifically Skin Cancer cause till Now i ‘ve only posted Breast Cancer and Colon Cancer World maps n everyone is pissed off with me
Cause i am trying to relate Cancer to Craters
http://faculty.fortlewis.edu/tyler_c/classes/206/craters_worldmap.jpg
I had a better map
Some decent maps
http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=8399
GDP per capita
quality of life
human development index
Life expectancy
Literacy
Vehicles per capita
sorry though still no cancer
it might be a paradoxymoron.
A moronic irony.
mondo-Peroxide
@ Jeemobon
You have also presented an Oxymoron by those 2 maps RODFL
Interestingly Tibet is there where they preach PEACE RODFL
By the way there was some Physycologist who did this study not in a mood to proove myself cause as peeps know i would be on my 6th large of Whisky now
@Jeemobon:
I’m moving to one of those gray areas!
Cap and Trade
A global tax on the people for the benefit of bankers and traders like Gore. The concern is that so many political leaders like Rudd are supporting this. Why.
If Rudd believes in global warming why not tax and use the money raised in Australia.
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/10/bankers-lawyers-investors-disappointed-shucks/
Yes, that market is projected to be big, not just $1.9 trillion though, some say $10 trillion. This is not a point in it’s favor, not for anyone except traders, lawyers and bankers.
Australia’s share of the current global market is less than 0.5 per cent, but Australian emitters are expected to become significant buyers of international carbon credits if and when the ETS is established.
Let’s translate that. Being BUYERS of credits means we are payers for permits. Thus meaningless pieces of paper about air that could-have-had-more-carbon-it-it will come to Australia, while real money that buys real things, leaves. This is not usually the way to run a free market, or a healthy economy. More like lemming economy management. Witness the economic suicide of a whole continent.
@Dedo:
I never said I found Peter Pan limited. Why he is fundamentally unlimited in scope and imagination!
I just wondered if you were Peter Pan.
If you are: can I be Wendy?
world happiness
http://www.fahad.com/pics/world_map_of_happiness_lrg.jpg
@Bonn no skin cancer map could I find but I got suicide for ya
Do you want me to Expain that map to you
that just explains that people who have nothing actually live a more fullfilled life because they have nothing but relationships n they cherish that more than anything
@Bonn no skin cancer map could I find but I got suicide for ya
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Suicide_rates_map-fr.png
@Chris and Adam C
Good debate.
Here is more data backing up the GW Theory.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/11/global-warming-what-evidence-do-you-have/
Although I agree with the theory, I am afraid that I disagree with at least the Cap and Trade solution. I think that it will be another WS scam where only the people on WS benefit and the environment does not.
@henk
TnX for the Dutch docu link about the CO2 Hoax, great stuff! Also see the docu: Global Warming Doomsday Called Off http://tinyurl.com/yfg4led
Maybe make a translation script of the Dutch docu abot the CO2 hoax later but here some points I picked up.
- Polar bear population has been increasing and the greatest threat for them are Americans who come on a hunting trip. The Inuit eskimo’s make money of the American hunting tourism by bringing the them to a place were polar bears are and they can shoot them. The Inuit skin the polar bear for the tourist so he can take his hunting trophy back home to America.
It’s only until recently that the American government has prohibited to take Polar bear trophies into the country.
The eleged shrinking of the Ice cap was a technical sattelite mistake and was not corrected in the media. My gut is that they make these “mistakes” on purpose like we now also know from the hacked climate scamsters data.
Prof Begemann was in an Arctic area were the summers are hotter but the winters are one month longer and colder! Netto there is no risng of temperature in that area!
Later more…….
@Frances,……seems a very limited perspective from you,..hmm,..intriguing !
@Bonn,…I’ve a hunch it’s the cream!!
Nope i dont belive that cause some people dont use cream i mean i dont so what if my skin is dry when i go all out on my exersisin i dont need creams n all
I have have worked out in the Gym from 16 to 24 took a break of 3 years never applied cream skin got a little crazy but started a year back
The body starts getting on track if you start Excerzin
Just Like a Bird in a cage which was meant to fly
Humans were meant to Exersisze or hmm errr oooo hmmm do menial work like mine for Gold RODFL PMSL
N my carpets 2 of em are fine
@Dedo:
Ignorance can lead to dispassionate behavior and so can drug addiction. I think crazy people tend to be dispassionate about real events.
Then there are the dispassionate wannabes. Those are the gay, frolicking sort, who instigate passions in others as a means to avoid enduring them as an individual: you know, like Peter Pan!
@mother earth
What is important that he tells you how all funding is about the hoax. Another story isn’t fundet.
So stay on the cloud. I’m not
@Frances,..I wasn’t aware it was a secret !
@Bonn,…I’ve a hunch it’s the cream!!
Hard to respond to juxatpoetry, but it entertains..
Yes. My aim is always to please my European betters. But leave Rahm Emmanuel outta it.
Psst. Dedo. Now that everyone’s on the other thread, what IS your secret for remaining dispassionate?
@Chris
Isn’t it funny how much sense you make in comparison to the climate deniers. Logic+undisputed facts gets you somewhere..
@Alister
Even if you where right, don’t worry I’m not that dangerous..
@Snoot
Hard to respond to juxatpoetry, but it entertains..
@Stacy
Agreed, but the subject has a tendency to come up..
Clearly from the first discovery of oil it has meant military superiority for the entity that could exploit the oil fields.
But we have had the twentieth century thanks to oil, and it has produced a number of tchnologies that are still supressed and smeared, but that will be adopted more widespread soon. This will mean the non oil countries will have no trouble making the energy they need, and they will be exporting the technology that delivers virtually free wealth. You can make methane and hydrogen using solar power, so you can make any fuel you might want. Of course its much more intelligent to use electrical engines where only ships and trucks may face a challenge. Long story short, the dynamics of energy combined with strategic interest will not yeild simply two camps imho, it will yield a multipolar world of blocks in differing states of decarbonization. Hopefull unable to waste energy on fighting each other..
@Alister:
Maybe Bonn is indicating he thinks the thread needs a colonic?
@Karmastar23,…hmm,…you sound a lot like my old mate Supergeek,….is that just a coincidence ? ; )
@alister
I could be wrong here but I think the cyber war threat is a bit exaggerated ,but I do concede it is a threat.
It reminds me of the panic over the 1999- 2000 changeover.
there is no doubt there is a economic/cyber limited war at the moment but that would be nothing compared to a hard conflict between nations that would involve real bullets and explosives.
@stacyh–In the past we moved from wood to whale blubber to coal to oil; the shift in power
The wild card in this game may be natgas … price of this commodity has been suppressed, there is boat loads of profit here. Someone will facilitate this opportunity.
@Allister:
I wasn’t referring to submitting to others’ codes of morals or ethics but being true to your own. I’m not opposed to law to protect the weak, but I oppose law foisted upon the strong for the purpose of weak-minded gain.
Cause Africans woulda been leading the race plus india
Cause i dont belive the Sun causes Skin Cancer
Can someone get me link to a world map of Skin Cancer PLZ
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091120/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gourmet_salvation
Goldman Sachs Feeds The Needy?
asnywya ill stop making you all read my name now
but then again im lazy and yougn sohavent acuytally gained much materially yet just emotionally and intellectually yum
like i said, im a nihlist so im just gain gain gain as much as i can till its over
dork of york
not china would need space even though of course it would be preferable to have — they likely have the ability to order teams of hackers / iother people to covertly shut down certain satellites toe ffectly shut down whole ocuntrines in hours
RODFL oks
@Allister:
It all depends on whether one is willing to sacrifice now for gain later. Americans don’t seem to understand the concept. Standing apart from corruption now will bring great gain. I know: it not poetics speaking but a politic of being.
That’s why you liked the clip.
Sorry trying to get maps on all Cancers
BONN, man, talk about spoiling the mood, chill out with the colon cancer links
@stacey
I would generally agree with you
but I think china has serious miltiary ambitions of its own.
I believe its military budget is incresing 10% a year – and looks like its trying to take the high ground -SPACE……
http://www.cancerresearch.org.au/images/colon_cancer_world_map_2002.jpg
Jim Sinclair, Mr Gold, does this sound like a gold correction cry???
——————————————————————————————-
The Storm Of Verbal Intervention
Posted: Nov 20 2009 By: Jim Sinclair Post Edited: November 20, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Filed under: General Editorial
My Dearest Friends,
We are in a storm of verbal intervention where the US dollar is concerned. Everything from statements that cannot be based on data such as the US dollar is “the mother of all carry trades,” to the warnings to the East by Western Central banks not to apply currency controls as they are ineffective, to the Maginot Line drawn in the sand in the Euro at $1.50, are all structured to slow down the decline of the US dollar at a critical point in its descent.
On the other side of the coin the fundamentals for the dollar are not supportive.
All the moves towards currency diversification by central banks remain in place. Many central banks and Vietnam by increasing its importing of gold are following in the footsteps of India and China.
There is no question that there are governmental stops in the price of gold. If you read Armstrong’s conviction last evening, you know about the effects of imports and the ongoing long-term problems in the housing market and financial sectors that render no fundamental support for the dollar.
As the dollar makes it’s way below key levels already outlined to you and gold moves toward $1650 and beyond, there will be times like now where the advice of top callers seems rational, but is not.
I do not address my comments to those seeking a tip sheet or who are traders. I see that as contra-productive in the gold field now.
Understanding what is happening in complex currency trades, the impact of imports/export, and the financial industry that is now able to mark up toxic paper at will is not easy.
We have traveled together from $248 to the present level.
Those who have been here from the beginning will recall that when gold passed $529.40 it entered into a runaway and trading was suggested only for professionals.
I would like to reiterate that it is only going to get harder between here and $1650 and after on the way to Alf and Armstrong’s numbers. Swings can be hundreds of dollars from high to low in single days.
Look at this as insurance unavailable anywhere else.
Treat gold like the insurance policy it is with your gold and gold related item cost being the cost of the arrangement.
Ask yourself if you are succumbing to a top caller if you really want to be long dollars for any appreciable period of time.
Do not be run ragged by algorithm and hedge fund trading. Carry markets can be extremely violent.
Look at CIT and Middle America. Look at unemployment, and do not succumb to the new normal in a depraved economic world.
Have courage because you are going to need more than you already have called upon.
I am here for you to the absolute ability of one man communicating. Speculate if you must, but don’t call me when you hit the fan.
For those that understand the insurance character of gold, stand strong and stay the course.
Respectfully yours,
Jim
(ps sorry but you lost me with the pirate taLk, dont quite get that?????? yea no basically i just hitnk the dude in the film clip is cool and makes sense
how absolutely amazingly, remarkably, exceptionally, extraordinarily coincidental frances!!! – i just so happen to be a lazy self-loving Nihilist. – that sums me up perfectly !!
“Most people say that is it is the intellect which makes a great scientist. They are wrong: it is character.”
Mr. Albert Einstein
@Alister:
I respect your position. If I were offered the option of pirate or proverbial goody-gooer cheering for the altrune collect I would choose pirate as well.
But I don’t think we have to choose either. We CAN choose to be free.
@d3do
YAY… deeds back, glad to see you back on form… I was getting a bit worried about my mate back there you know… for a little while
@Stacy
you have been suckered into a false paradigm
The issue is “captured science” and CO2
Real pollution is very legit
IM SIDING WITH EXXON I HAVE DEAR FRIENDS INVOVLED WITH THE COMPANY AND I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW STACY HERBERT THAT I—YES IIIIIII__ END UP ARUGING WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY SAY GW IS REAL hahahaha its not this simple!!!!!!!!
The LION, hear him roar!!
Go Go Grayson wants Timmys’ head as a trophy!
Who will be next?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CswQx7XGeKg&feature=player_embedded#
@Chris
Great comment; very clear explanations.
I offer you this for review and comment:
The Skeptics Handbook II: Global Bullies Want Your Money
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/skeptics-handbook-ii-global-bullies-want-your-money/
@Stacy:
No. Pain emotes emotional response and right now we are getting shafted up the arse. I answered seeing as I’m American.
Aren’t you? American? If so, wouldn’t your response be tossed into the emotive American bin?
LOVELY FRANCES SNOOT::::::
PLEASE WATCH THIS SHORT VIDEO RE THE COLLECTIVE STATEMENT – couldnt find a more anglo saxon stiff upper lip kinda guy anywhere
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq9udFmsNO0&feature=player_embedded
actually you would all do well to watch this
@Allister:
Well, Frankly I have a Frank and a Stella so that makes me an option trade.
flutterflutter
Prediction for next 20 years – on one side you will have US, Saudi, UAE, Brazil, Russia, Exxon, BP, Unocal, Shell, and they will have their energy infrastructures through either luck of natural resources or through size of military and willingness to use that military
On the other side you will have Germany, France, China & Japan who will by force of nature and reality have to adapt and come up with an energy source that is different
In the past we moved from wood to whale blubber to coal to oil; the shift in power with each transition could explain the emotional response coming from Americans
Most human interactions for the past 5000 years have been about finance, all transactions have a price
Are you asking me to submit to authority rather than to evidence?
No, AdamC. He’s asking you to submit to collective truth for the good of your neighbors else you will be labeled a lazy and self-loving Nihilist. And you will have to stay if for recess.
nice, r u female? maybe we can catch up
@Alister:
I’m from the Anglo-Saxon stiff upper lip school.
@Stacy, you justify faux science based on what? Oil industry is bad therefore it is ok?
@Chris
If you have a PHD then you should know the difference between legitimate scientific inquiry and scientific evidence.
All matter absorbs IR. We do not know the isolated impact of CO2 in the atmosphere. It cannot be measured. Loose correlations, now suspect with corrupted data do not make scientific evidence.
Further, you ask for proof of a falsehood. Doesn’t sound like science.
frances, im french, and the one thing the french are not is dispassionate !!! PASSION IS FUNDAMENTAL TO THE HUMAN CONDITION, scream it from your rooftops
@Mother Earth
Are you asking me to submit to authority rather than to evidence?
Nice link, Scott!
@Chris
When they look at the ice cores and such and see a rise in Co2 can they analyze the chemicals in and link it fossil fuels?
@Frances,..“will post a new thread for finance”
@Stacy:
With all due respect, climate change IS finance.
Like I said before,..there is big picture perspective, and the nuts and bolts,…I guess some folk just ain’t that practical!
@Allister:
Yes, but I’d rather be dispassionate! That sounds cozier.
i rearranged my opnion not reality
c but the english americans french and germans would look at that title and think ooooo weeeee yes we are important whereas the chinese would jus tthink this is the foreigners’ panel oif opinion
“I’m always a bit concerned when folk get angry, because someone doesn’t agree with them.”
Do you have some secret, Dedo, for remaining dispassionate that you would like to share with us?
@alister
‘last post for now, you types are a lost cause’
er… three posts later… dude… you can rearrange reality to suit your opinion!!!
seems you;re rigth snoot
In 2009, he, NIK STERN, became a member of the International Advisory Council of the Chinese sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corporation
“will post a new thread for finance”
@Stacy:
With all due respect, climate change IS finance.
http://subrealism.blogspot.com/2009/11/might-as-well-face-it-were-addicted-to.html
to war…
Question?
Why do folk get so passionate about “their” beliefs ?
I’m always a bit concerned when folk get angry, because someone doesn’t agree with them!
fraces
if you would like to prove you’re correct please quickly skim the wiki biography of “lord stern”
The existing model of capital allocation has evolved around oil/gas/coal energy infrastructure
If or more likely when this economic system changes nuclear fission or in the future fussion will have a Renaissance.
We may make the planet glow but hell we will go out with a bang rather then a wimper.
If of course this generation gets through this age of turbalance.
Lets rock.
@Chris:
I have no problem with science. I have a problem with the program being run through a new exchange system of carbon credits which is an entirely new currency game run by the exact same criminals that have just recently enacted economic armageddon worldwide. I have a problem with the suprasovereign aspects of this new cartel system. I have a problem with the marginalization of the opposing view through humiliation and hubris by those that see their aspect supported by a corrupt and tyrannical G20 political system.
Point being: the new world will not be free. It will not be safe. It will only profit those that, through criminal manipulation and control, now stand to own everything.
chris buddy, hate to break it to you but it dont matter what you are you cant rearrange reality to suit your opinion, osrry.
again, watch the basic video i posted (the fiurst one)
dude you cant just say oh i have a phd and i think this so tehrefore yes i am more right than any of you, pfffffft
There are alternative energy sources,….but try taking piggy to market,…me thinks you’ll have a hard time ; )
EXACTLY, Dedo.
like, this hacker has proved all the SO CALLED “top” climatologists(what a retarded frkin discipline anyway) are bascially operating in self-desribed “teams” and are bascially knowingly perpetuating fraudelent science
THIS EXPLAINS – read this you idiot mother
Warmist conspiracy exposed?
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/hadley_hacked
TO THE ILL-MANNERED INDIVIDUAL WHO WANTS ME DEAD:
re-read your last post, YOU are now trying to dictate through qualification who can partake in communications relating to this subject – this is insanity (plus there are tens of thousnads of scientieis / climatorlogust call them whatever you want the names are meaningfless…..who completely refute everything you believe in this regard…anyway, last post for now, you types are a lost cause
@Chris – yes, I try to avoid it too because I am against Saudi monarchs and their pal, Dick Cheney, but people really want them to be trillionaires; will post a new thread for finance
Yessuh, mastuh. Just bout ready to sweep the streets for Rahm Emmanuel. Yessuh. Got gold but they sayz I gotta still go on and sweep. Yes, and that my land is not mine no mo. But wez all gonna be safes.
@alister
Haha! Though, I think you’re being serious??
If so, please explain. I’m a few comments behind in the conversation.
I don’t usually engage in the global warming debate on this website since I prefer to keep the focus here on finance & scandal.
However, for everybody wondering about global climate change, I can say this: I have a PhD in astronomy, (focus on infrared astronomy), and I have read the claims of global warming deniers, and find that they fall quite short in comparison with the overwhelming evidence that global climate change is underway, and that human actions are the primary cause.
Here are a few facts that are undisputed:
1. Sunlight absorbed by Earth is re-radiated, mainly as infrared light. If this IR light is absorbed on its way up, eg by the glass in a greenhouse, then that environment gets hotter than if the IR is not absorbed and simply radiates into space.
2. You can calculate the average temp. Earth should have just from sunlight absorbed, and it is much lower than Earth’s true temp. The reason is Earth’s atmosphere: the Greenhouse Effect traps some IR, warming Earth up to a certain extent which is helpful to life. (ie. a modest greenhouse effect is GOOD for life)
3. The greenhouse effect in Earth’s atmosphere is caused by greenhouse gasses (eg. CO2, CH4). You can check in ANY lab on earth that these two molecules absorb IR energy.
4. The amount of CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere is skyrocketing to levels that have NEVER been seen in all of human history, and probably have never been seen in all of Earth’s 4.5 billion year history.
5. The average temperature of all of Earth has become significantly warmer over the last 2 decades, precisely after and during the time that CO2 has increased dramatically. (And yes this IS the case even if there are icicles hanging outside the window of your particular house)
I argue that this information ALONE is sufficient to necessitate serious action and concern. I challenge any global deniers to disprove any of the above 5 points scientifically. This means please cite a reference published in a peer-reviewed literature which shows, eg. that CO2 does not absorb any IR light, etc.
so are you saying: hail to the oligarchs and and obey their definition of what “is” is????????????
No,Richard. I am saying that the data that MotherEarth is relying on for his arguments is not unbiased.
have you peple even been speaking about all the hacking crap recently, jesus holy mother of god it’s so frikin obvious, adn then you have this little psychopath Stern telling people they cant’ eat meat, HA- yea right say that when you chompin down on a juicy bloody steak at a 3 michelin pffft
thank god the east (china) is in control now
@Adam C
I recently asked a meteorlogical expert some question on the weather patterns in Africa. His answer was ‘No, if you want to know why study meteorology’. Very unhelpfull, but to illustrate you must choose:
(1.) Be an climate expert and join the discussion
(2.) Rely on the experts
You are not qualified to do (1.) and if you would be you would agree and not discuss the IPCC conclusions (as that is what climate experts do). Then there is only (2.) left, which means accept the conclusions and promote actions to minimize the damage.
@StacyHerbert:
“however, recent history has also demonstrated to oil importing nations that the US is prepared to use chemical and nuclear weapons to secure remaining oil reserves; unless they wish to compete on the violence market, they have no choice but to find alternative energy sources”
Seems to me it is Germany that is using Allianz group as a means to profit from the Capsian Oil which belongs to the Kazakhstani people. Soros is involved in that little debacle.
@frances snoot: so are you saying: hail to the oligarchs and and obey their definition of what “is” is????????????
Thanks Stacy for neat chart and site…I went to the site the 5y chart shower the CRASH chart alah Chris Martensen and long term resistance at 75…the chart is hard to read. I think when we break 75 on the upside we going much higher…depending on resistance…I do not think the British-American pomer triangle can hold back the demands and needs of billions of Asians, Latin Americans, and Africans…only the carring capacity of the earth can do that…
adam c.
W.h.a.t. t.h.e. f.u.c.k.
dude you’re completly off the point in la la land
“Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.”
That’s not remarkable. It’s practical: they are being paid through the UN auspices which are run by the currency cartel. How is the IPCC an independent agency?
“find the best approximations of the truth”
Since when has concensus truth been the agenda of science? The hope for a concensus truth is the hope of the fundamentalist or the control freak. Science is the art of applying knowledge for the betterment of humanity through research. If there is a dichotomy in the science of climate as to ocean rise, it is not the “job” of the political arm, controlled by the currency cartel, to foist truth upon the world as a means of control over resources and profit.
The G20 political structure to which we all submit willingly has one thing that correlates perfectly in all western nations: the finance ministers are all sitting governors at the IMF bank. Isn’t it odd that the IMF bank is the controlling arm of the BIS which has a monopoly on every nation’s currency now? Isn’t it odd that the Copenhagen agenda is being run through the UN/G20/BIS conglomerate?
Free Energy screws up lotta peoples plans Remember i metioned Stellar
@Stacy
There needs to be an effort to reduce the damage to all. It is easy to understand what is happening, but that does not mean one should accept it. It only takes shutting up the morons which is doable even if they are the majority, it simply takes marketing the opposite opinion.
Agression is a function of the reliance on a concept for survival. The more important it is the more agressive people get about it (even when the reliance is misconstrued). I see climate change and its devestating impact as a unmitigated outcome of current human activities. People that wilfully pollute the public discourse with lies and distortions (for profit) thus preventing adatation and endangering all life on this planet are fair game..
That said you are right to say it doesn’t have much effect to respond here on this blog, it’s an exercise..
@Alister
I was illustrating that low concetrations can be deadly. Better think about it as a balance between energy received and energy lost. Depending on the concetration of CO2 (amongst others) the earth heats up or cools down. The difference in concentration can be minute. Its a bit like Michael Cain in his truck full of gold on the edge at the end of The Italian Job, one kernel of rice could have killed him.
pffft.
Stacy you;’re obviously too smart & have too much free time to fall into any category other than box 3. So why are you willfully ignorant?
The plug is already pulled now just let them do the work, you dont need this bs concept to galvanise the environmental movement into hysterics, try understand that, and not be an eco-fascist who cares more about ants than humans
George Carlin – Saving the Planet
****THE RIGHT & WRONG SIDE NEED TO WATCH THIS*****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw
@Dedo – other nations have no alternative but to find alternative energies; it does not matter that oil is the most perfect energy source ever used; without the weapons system, oil is not an option that is available to them for much longer
@ Phil
Now those Craters you were saying ?
@WL – yes, every single piece of scientific research financed by Exxon has demonstrated that burning oil causes absolutely no harm in any manner possible and that, in fact, it is environmentally useful
There are alternative energy sources,….but try taking piggy to market,…me thinks you’ll have a hard time ; )
@alister
There is the danger of the sunk costs fallacy on both sides of the argument. Only by focusing on objective, real-world emprical evidence can we save ourselves from ourselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost_fallacy
“coherent framework and plan of action ” lol, you’d do well to read some José Ortega y Gasset:
“Create a concept and reality leaves the room”
i bet you’re excellent at creating concepts on paper or screens
They’re
Frances,.I think their called useful idiots ! : )
@Adam C – nice one
@Dedo – true that recent history would suggest there is no profit in sustainability; however, recent history has also demonstrated to oil importing nations that the US is prepared to use chemical and nuclear weapons to secure remaining oil reserves; unless they wish to compete on the violence market, they have no choice but to find alternative energy sources
you’re
adam c? your not referring to me are you…?
Why do seemingly intelligent individuals continue to defends this faux science?
Ideology?
You always get those.
intellectually dishonest?
False paradigm? To break the oil companies we must fake the science.That is ok?
There is nothing wrong with developing alternative energies and weening the world off of oil.
The issue is corrupting the scientific process.
Clearly, the science has been “CAPTURED”. I guess it is good when it suits your emotionally invested agenda.
@Stacy,..How many new energy systems have been bought up, and suppressed by vested interests,..
My thinking is,..it’s been going on for quite a few yrs !
There’s no profit in sustainability,..haven’t you noticed?
; )
@Mother Earth
Thanks for a longer reply.
Here’s my reading of your comment:
>> Al the arguments against global warming are insinuations, false representations, ommisions of data, outright denial of clearly demonstrated facts, branding an error as a disqualification of an entire body of research.
This is a valid criticism in the sense that any such activities are abhorrent and anti-science. I am always weary of being led astray by such manipulations and to counter this I focus on the real data where it is actually presented (not often).
>> There is no discussion on man made climate change necessary, that would be the same as discussing creationism vs. evolution, it would be to please the stupidity and ignorance of the creationist.
This statement is rather unfortunate since it conflicts with the skeptical perspective you articulated above. Scientific debates are never over. New data comes in and theories change to accommodate it. This is the basis of science. Wishing it away (as you appear to do) makes me suspicious – but since you have already presented a skeptics mindset, I’ll dismiss this part as over-enthusiasm for you view. (I agree about the theory of evolution btw. But it is a theory nonetheless. It depends on skepticism. Indeed it might well be the ultimate example of it, given the continuous religious lobbying against it.)
>> It disgust me especially to see republicans fear mongering for the benefit of their destructive business models. You can analyse the speaches and it is all crap argumanets and hubris that is completely acceptable in the US but got you in a trillion dollar war all the same.
I agree. Though I’m not in the habit of labeling people by their political affiliations, more their actions. But given the politics involved in proposed legislation and business contracts, I think it’s right to be suspicious. I too want a better environment. I simply point to the compounding nature of ‘money as debt’ to explain why some HAVE to ravage the environment to keep their numbers up – and that includes waging wars for profit. It’s hard to condemn individuals or companies when the whole system is so obviously corrupt. The central banking warfare model is beyond all common sense and morality. It has to end. And when it does, so will much of the over-consumption, over-production, and associated pollution.
>> The temperature change will be 6 degrees this century which means food production will be severely compromised. An impact is likely to be noticable much much sooner. This is your food production. Stop wanking off on an intellectually interesting position and get with the people that increase your chance for survival.
I’ll tackle this in reverse order. I’m not sure what you mean by an intellectual position. I have a skeptical/science/evidence-based approach simply because I don’t have all the answers – nor does anyone else. Thus we must seek to understand the world through evidence, reaching a common understanding with others as to what the world is – objectively, and how it works – objectively by collecting data and refining our theories to explain it. The benefit of science is that if any one scientist should die, his knowledge doesn’t die with him, and that knowledge applies to the same world as the one the dead scientist left behind. Science is how we save ourselves from ourselves.
Food is a very tricky issue. I’m not sure I’m in anyway qualified to comment.
Sources:
IPCC: I need to be pointed at a particular article. I only have so much spare time and attention. Sorry.
Guardian: That is ‘data’ in the sense of a projected scenario, but again, all of it is based on a models and modeled data which, to be fair, was the best source of scenario planning we had until Lindzen collected actual observed data. We can’t make sound decisions based on computer models alone. We can’t all live inside one of Goldman Sachs’ algorithmic blackboxes, beholden to its rules. We have to adjust ourselves to a real world. I could just as easily point you to anti-alarmist links saying the earth has been cooling and will cool, but that won’t tell us why. Only the data – and more of it! – can help us understand why for *ourselves*, not models, not conjecture, no matter how authoritative or consensual.
Reuters/Shell: Obviously, I don’t agree with the promotion of low-carbon technologies for the sake of CO2 reduction; I agree with the promotion for the sake of peak oil. I’m very much for a renewable/sustainable economy, but I am under no illusions that it won’t necessitate the use of all available energy sources to get usthere. Again, I’ll quote John-Michael Greer on this:
“…it’s easy to insist, if you ignore the economic dimension, that a society facing this sort of crisis can save itself by launching a massive program to build nuclear reactors, solar thermal power plants, algal biodiesel, or what have you, and of course this sort of claim has seen endless rehashing over the last couple of decades. The problem is that massive programs of this sort pile additional demands on an already faltering economy. Any such program has to be paid for, after all, and by this I don’t mean that money has to be found for it; in today’s mostly hallucinatory economic climate, conjuring money out of thin air is easy enough. No, it has to be paid out of current economic output, which is much less flexible, and already has to cover the rising costs of resource depletion and pollution. This is the trap hidden in the limits to growth; once those limits begin to bite, the spare economic capacity that would be needed to build one’s way out of trouble no longer exists.”
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2009/06/survival-isnt-cost-effective.html
“Producing energy takes energy. The process by which money produces more money consumes next to no energy, by contrast, and so financial investments don’t lose ground due to rising energy costs. …a perpetually expanding money supply driven by mass borrowing at interest has become an anachronism unsuited to the new economic reality of energy contraction. It also guarantees that any attempt to limit the financial sphere of the economy will face mass opposition, not only from financiers, but from millions of ordinary citizens whose dream of a comfortable retirement depends on the hope that financial investments will outperform the faltering economy of goods and services. Meanwhile, just as the economy most needs massive reinvestment in productive capacity to retool itself for the very different world defined by contracting energy supplies, investment money seeking higher returns flees the productive economy for the realm of abstract paper wealth.’
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2009/11/gesture-from-invisible-hand.html
You see, I agree with the spirit of your campaigning to make people aware of the futility of sticking to the status quo. I do think people have their heads in the sand regarding peak oil. Where we disagree is that I’m not motivated by a CO2-driven climate change scenario because I don’t believe there’s ‘evidence’ for it, and then obviously the carbon trading scheme makes no sense to me for solving what I consider to be a non-existent carbon problem, and then carbon-trading makes me even more suspicious because all the economists reviewing the plan conclude that the scheme can’t possibly work to either reduce carbon (which is what the AGW interpretation wants) OR to reallocate investment to renewables (what the world needs). So what we have is a derivative scam being built on the good intentions of those that have the AGW interpretation, but with a horrible danger of profound disappointment for all concerned. Given your understanding of economics, I can’t understand why you’d be for a carbon-scheme on its own merits. In reference to your previous comment regarding avoiding using carbon if I don’t want to be taxed on it – the carbon tax is a tax levied on ALL production (because we are still oil dependent) and ALL consumption (since we consume from current production). To believe this tax is going to help us on our way to the switching to renewables/sustainables is a massive leap of faith. Are we really going to trust a few elites to forceably collect our money and invest it in the necessary technologies for the benefit of us all? For us all? For us all? It bears repeating. For us all when it depends on force?
I applaud your effort to take all of these issues and bundle them together in a coherent framework and plan of action. I remain skeptical on the science (as I believe is my responsibility) and suspicious of the politics/business (as everyone appears to be – because of human nature and the lessons of past and recent history). I have no vested interest in the current status quo and certainly no interest in participating in the installation of yet another.
Apologies for the length of this comment.
@MotherEarth:
Is Stacy indicating that you’re on the “winning team”?
Does that mean that you are being supported by the illicit and nasty currency cartel that is set to decimate the planet with genocidal fury?
If so, then I would look behind my back. People like that can rarely be trusted.
Stacy, don’t conflate the anthropogenic “global warming” theory with investment in new, greener energy technologies. Doing so is childish. Obviously, the later can and will occur without the former.
By the way, to that other ill mannered individual who expressed a desire to kill me based on my not believing his opinions to be of a sound mind , I consider myself to be a romantic naturalist who recognizes the importantance of integrating our societies more harmoniously into the natural ecology in which we rest.
Sorry but not silly us/them, simple minded dichotomy here.
enjoys nothing more than the great outdoors but
It is clear that these climate scientists have an economic and political agenda. They have corrupted legitimate scientific inquiry, no way around it.
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/20/climate-cuttings-33.html
searchable emails here
http://www.anelegantchaos.org/cru/
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/20/mikes-nature-trick/
You can download the raw email and docs here, it is legit
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XD050VKY
How exceptionally offensive! Calm down, calm down.
If you’re that aggressive about this issue, maybe stop and consider whether or not you have invested your emotions and self-conceived intellectual integrity so heavily into accepting as fact this allegedly scientific phenomenon that you have now (sub)consciously reached a point where to admit your original (or at least current) opinion on this issue is wrong would be to crucify your own sense of self-worth, maybe?
Calm down.
@Mother Earth – lol, most people would rather give their wealth to the Saudi monarchs rather than any sort of technologists or entrepreneurs of new energy systems because a monarch being worth 10 trillion or 20 trillion by controlling energy or money, which is a form of energy, is something that can be tolerated by most but several hundred thousand clever people creating the same wealth inspires only jealousy in a feudal system; for yourself, just prepare for the future that is inevitable and coming; right now US press / opinion speaks loudest, but you can see where the future is going; don’t waste emotional energy; only one side is doing so at the moment
@Alister
How many parts per million cyaninide can I serve you?
@Redzebra
Good link, what they write about the hack is what I would write (as a former scientist) especially this part:
“Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.”
This is a fact that cannot be questioned:
There are only three types of humans who believe that human and other animal activity is causing the Earth’s temperature to rise in a linear, medium-long term manner:
1. The Uninformed
2. The Misinformed
3. The Willfully Ignorant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLmLW4k4aI
@WL
The word ‘trick’ does not have to mean anything untrue. It can be a trick to get something to work well, especially merged datasets.
@henk
Thanks, the guy is not an expert, he says he is a simple physisist that did research on light transmission. Then he tells that according to people on the poles (so he can’t confirm the story) ice is melting from below as well as above because of sweet water precipitation causing upwelling of warmer water. Then (and that is the limit) he says that precipitation is of course due to the weather and warming of the climate, which is of course something completely natural.
Don’t underetimate the ability of losers to perk up their life by telling lies, the US congress is full of this type of psychopats.
Meanwhile back at the ranch..
Our dutch newspaper NRC (in my country, sorry) runs an editorial this saturday showing increased temperatures on every continent (I tried to open the russina ftp site with the climate data, and now I cna’t up load the image).
As one would expect, scientific understanding advances with knew knowledge. Since the original prediction of global warming, (simplistically presented by the media to the public as a nice balmy rise on the thermostat), more accurate models have demonstrated what was always implicit in the theory – that climate would become destabilized, hence “climate change”. It’s not a different theory, it’s the same one refined.
You can find a crackpot website to support or rail against any theory you like, but for a reasoned and scientific analysis of the data, look at http://www.realclimate.org/
In particular there is a discussion of the recent hacked emails. An interesting point is, is this is the most damning they could find in 10 years of emails, it rather points against the existance of a worldwide conspiracy.
@Phil:
The video link with that guy looking down on us and talking down to us: I wonder if he would like to come on over here and sweep the streets because Rahm Emmanuel tells him to? Red Rover Red Rover: why don’t you come over?
We, the US taxpayers, bailed out the European banks so we can now participate in emancipatory slavery? No thanks.
@Mother earth,
All mass extinction events in the geologic record are associated with global COOLING.
This isn’t the warmest the planet has ever been.
The warmest the planet ever was, supported the greatest variety of life on the planet.
It might suck for us, but it may be good for your beloved earth and other creatures.
@jimodonnell
“says that inflation is next to be followed by deflation WHEN a currency change is made.”
surely it is the opposite
We are experiencing deflation at the moment because the value of the debts incurred exceeds the capacity of the economy to service that debt
The appropiate action would have been to eliminate some of the money/debt such as perferred bank bonds but alas this did not happen
I believe when the currency change happens there will be a major devaluation againist commodities and then subsequent inflation which will then reduce the debt burden.
The problem with Afghanistan is the people living there ceased being naive centuries ago.
Not a problem for me but a problem for the conquerors who for some reason the Afghans prefer killing to cooperation.
We should all react with antipathy to those who would to lead us by the nose through deceit.
@Jim ODonnell:
There isn’t going to be ‘chaos’ but it could look that way to the common people. The game is being manipulated by the sdrs. The ‘collapse’ is really a change in thinking: when nations draws on the IMF account and the account falls below the allotment allowed it is painful. Right now, as Soros indicated, the interest paid for that no-no is low. But in future the rates will increase. This will lead to a deference away from hard currency.
The ones in control are focusing on trade guidelines. Why are we focusing on an outmoded model from an institute called Mises which does not even include the sdr basket in its vocabulary?
Mises economics is not any more pure than sdr manipulatons. Gold is not any more righteous than paper money. What does gold and Mises connote to people? There is some metaphysical meaning clinging to those words. Perhaps we are taught and programmed to believe in a certain way to better serve our “betters” interests?
Look at the words and think about denotation and then connotation. The problem with Afghanistan is the people living there ceased being naive centuries ago.
Marc Faber is not a humanitarian: he is promoting his own best interests. He is not actually lying, but when has he breathed a word about the sdr? He is part of the game.
Couldn’t it be that some of those that “got it right” did so through foreknowlege given by the very ones who would to use those same “smart ones” as poppets now?
Why did no one peep about the 250B dollar fiat creation of sdrs and the board’s decision to allot them according to the bank’s discretion? We are all voting for the NWO every day.
Hockey stick graph manipulation
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/20/mikes-nature-trick/
@ Mother earth,
Well I have posted a link allready a few minutes ago about the big CO2 scam. Of falcifieng statistics.
It is time to come of the big cloud.
Here is a dutch professor who tells you also something intersesting. I inderstood you were dutch so will understand it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcpPZU9tGMU&feature=player_embedded
The problem with Gore and Global Warming, (a.k.a- Climate Change, and now apparently carbon-dioxide POLLUTION), is Credibility! 20 years ago, the data supported a trend of warmer global temperatures. Now that this is now longer the case, they morphed the name from Global Warming to Climate Change. Now it appears they are trying to push for another name: carbon-dioxide pollution.
The original premise (supported or demonstrated by the Mann Curve (or hockey stick graph) was that carbon dioxide levels always trailed global warming. (The world had to get warmer to support more life) Now we are in a period where Carbon dioxide levels were leading warming. Hypothesis: the earth is going to go through a rapid warming period. Once it reached it’s tipping point, runaway warming.
Now these Assholes are trying to call it carbon-dioxide pollution.
When they lose all credibility, people won’t worry about carbon-dioxide; and I fear they may not worry about pollution. (Which of course is a real problem.)
al gore making a big mistake
http://www.allamericanblogger.com/9176/al-gore-thinks-the-center-of-the-earth-is-as-hot-is-the-center-of-the-sun/
all a big scam?
Hadley CRU hacked with release of hundreds of docs and emails
http://www.examiner.com/x-28973-Essex-County-Conservative-Examiner%7Ey2009m11d19-Hadley-CRU-hacked-with-release-of-hundreds-of-docs-and-emails
Milton Friedman when more lucid on monitary matters in a conversation with Paul Samuelson defined things as follows:
Federal Reserve Note = The US owes you nothing.
Special Drawing Rights = Who owes you nothing.
@Adam C
Al the arguments against global warming are insinuations, false representations, ommisions of data, outright denial of clearly demonstrated facts, branding an error as a disqualification of an entire body of research. There is no discussion on man made climate change necessary, that would be the same as discussing creationism vs. evolution, it would be to please the stupidity and ignorance of the creationist.
It disgust me especially to see republicans fear mongering for the benefit of their destructive business models. You can analyse the speaches and it is all crap argumanets and hubris that is completely acceptable in the US but got you in a trillion dollar war all the same.
The temperature change will be 6 degrees this century which means food production will be severely compromised. An impact is likely to be noticable much much sooner. This is your food production. Stop wanking off on an intellectually interesting position and get with the people that increase your chance for survival.
Some sources, amongst which Royal Dutch Shell
http://www.ipcc.ch/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/17/global-temperature-rise
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE5AJ3T620091120
frances snoot
Nov 21, 2009 at 6:04 am
“What is this latest from Mish, On The Edge? The Shedlock Paradox? Is Mish trying to have his cake and eat it, too? If it is going to be deflation, then how exactly are we supposed to have a currency collapse?”
Many moniterists can’t get inflation/deflation straight, including Schiff sometimes. The bastards who confused the issue by redefining the monitary/credit definition with the general price level seem to have won the battle: To confuse the issue.
In my opinion only Marc Faber is consistant in the inflation or deflation outcome. He, drawing on his knowledge of Weinmar, says that inflation is next to be followed by deflation WHEN a currency change is made.
My opinion is that as long as credit insturments are being hidden and held out of the market place, as with the banks now, it doen’t matter if they are worth zero as the counter parties are getting away scott-free. A currency change opens up the entire Pandora’s Box to the market place: Then Deflation.
@Mother Earth
typo in my previous comment:
“…in no way irrelevant…” — should be: relevant.
@ Snoot…heres a Frank Hope
There once was a girl from Baroda
Who built herself a pagoda
The walls of its halls
Were hung with the balls
And the tools of the fools from the fed
@Mother Earth
I didn’t find fault in Al Gore. The video asserts fault in Al Gore. If you read my comments sensibly you will see I find fault in the science as presented by those with an AGW interpretation of modelled data rather than actual observed data.
The pluses and minuses of proposed carbon schemes do not provide any sort of justification or refutation for CO2-driven climate change. Only the actual science can do that. So you may take my comment about Al Gore being a salesman as being in no way irrelevant to your AGW point-of-view, as I currently understand it.
Again, my main contention is the lack of evidence for CO2-driven climate change. Show me the evidence for CO2-driven climate change and I’ll gladly support any sensible policies to avert inevitable crisis if that’s what the evidence suggests. All that agreed right now (by actual data and within limits) is that CO2 has a definite warming effect, but that adding more CO2 doesn’t have a proportionate effect in warming (See Lindzen’s data: http://www.globalwarming.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/lindzen-talk-pdf.pdf). In addition, the planet as had far higher levels of atmospheric CO2 in the ancient past, but has in no way suffered a devastating warming effect because of that CO2. This is measured by ice core samples. So, both the current observed data and historical data go against the AGW ‘consensus’.
Because I am so weary of finding myself in a similar consensus unchecked by new data, I welcome you or anyone else to correct my understanding. A scientific debate demands nothing less than eternal skepticism. Wouldn’t you agree?
I really don’t understand what problem it is that you say I’m ignoring?
- That the earth is constantly in flux between warming/cooling and we don’t fully understand all the reasons why?
- That the oil is running out and we need to make a rather quick shift to renewable/sustainable sources?
- That I’m not being moral enough or displaying the appropriate emotionality to participate in this debate??
Since you’ve addressed me directly, I feel as though I’m able to ask you again for evidence of CO2-driven climate change because you have such conviction I feel as though I’m missing out on something you must know for certain. We both obviously have the time to discuss the issue. I’d prefer we trade empirical data rather than conjecture – even though I know its sometimes difficult to avoid the temptations “believer/denialist” name-calling aspects of the debate. I’m not asking you or anyone else to take my word for it (I’m not a climate expert!), so I provide links for you to read and review.
As ever, I’m giving you the same benefit of the doubt as I’d prefer to believe you offer me. There’s really no point in being hostile towards me when I don’t share the same intent.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9102574
“China has kept the yuan, also known as the renminbi (RMB), pegged around 6.83 per dollar since July 2008, following a 21 percent rise over the previous three years, to help its exporters weather the global economic crisis.
“We do believe firmly in the IMF that the RMB is undervalued and that it is not only in the interests of the global economy but also in the interests of China to have a revaluation of the currency,” he said.”
remember Y’all the sum of this site is hipper than you alone… I know I bang on ’bout this… but this is a great site full of up to the minute latest news and on the money links (mostly!)… so I always suggest taking the time and reading the comments first… before you desperately try and join in,
@Whomever:
Whatever.
What is this latest from Mish, On The Edge? The Shedlock Paradox? Is Mish trying to have his cake and eat it, too? If it is going to be deflation, then how exactly are we supposed to have a currency collapse?
@cb:
Most commentator are completely ignoring the affect of the sdr manipulations via the IMF/BIS through central banks. The affect may produce gyrations that are not readily recognized by “Mises Buffs”. The 250B dollar allotment is quite a toss into the global financial system. The allotment was completely fiat at the discretion of the IMF board governors (Geithner is the US rep).
The effect of sdr allotment is that the fund decides what your nation’s quota must be maintained at and charges interest to your account if you dip below the quota.
Here’s an interesting fact:
“The SDR is neither a currency, nor a claim on the IMF. Rather, it is a potential claim on the freely usable currencies of IMF members. Holders of SDRs can obtain these currencies in exchange for their SDRs in two ways: first, through the arrangement of voluntary exchanges between members; and second, by the IMF designating members with strong external positions to purchase SDRs from members with weak external positions. In addition to its role as a supplementary reserve asset, the SDR, serves as the unit of account of the IMF and some other international organizations.”
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/sdr.htm
What other are some other international organizations other than the BIS?
Adam C
Thanks
Great to see Aust fighting back
I believe goodness and decency will eventually win the day. At least I hope so.
@phil
We aim to please
@Adam C
So one guy failed to avert suspicion, while he clearly points out a major problem you would like to ignore, and that is it? Should we all curl up under our beds because you find fault in Al Gore?
If you fear carbon tax, stop using fossil fuels..
@RJ
>> What sort of man is Gore.
A sales-man.
Take down Gore and another thousand carbon salesmen will be there to take his place.
Focus on the evidence or the lack or it.
The “Man-Made Global Warming” Skeptics Handbook II: Global Bullies Want Your Money
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/skeptics-handbook-ii-global-bullies-want-your-money/
@Phil
Deek is right.
Land Value Tax Campaign
http://www.landvaluetax.org/what-is-lvt/
CNBC Rick Santelli on Fed Audit – Darkness (secrecy) is NEVER better!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklY011M_9Y
This is the fight that must be won at all cost
@ALL
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) — A U.S. senator said he would seek to block any legislation containing a measure to remove the Federal Reserve’s shield from congressional audits of the central bank’s interest-rate decisions.
The House Financial Services Committee yesterday advanced a proposal requiring audits of the Fed that was introduced by Representative Ron Paul, a Republican from Texas. Senator Judd Gregg, a New Hampshire Republican and Banking Committee member, said in an interview today that the measure “would do fundamental damage to the strength of our financial structure as a nation.”
““The Fed needs to make the case for policy independence,” said former St. Louis Fed President William Poole, now a senior fellow at the Cato Institute in Washington. “The right place for the policy audit” is congressional hearings on monetary policy, not through the GAO, Poole said.
Gregg, 62, who was elected in 1992 and plans to retire from the Senate next year, attributed the Paul legislation’s success to “populist fervor” and lawmakers “pandering” to the public.
If the audit provisions become law, “you will fundamentally harm the stability of the dollar and our ability to fight inflation, because the Fed’s ability to deal with interest rates will be chilled by the fear of congressional oversight,” Gregg said.”
Al “Carbon” Gore thinks that the core of the earth is as hot as several millions of degrees.
Free oil!.. buy wille!.. no wait!
Can we have another video thread, please?
I’ve got a few shares cued up.
Remember the parrots in North Wales were dying? Today this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8370859.stm
@gb …. Shareholders demand Goldman bonuses
GREAT !
Now we’ll see if these people work for themselves or for the shareholders.
Their bluff is about to be called !
BTW .. it’s not just GS , it is IMO , MOST of the US Corporations.
@RJ
rats fighting on a sinking ship….
@paganrongs
If it’s true they died it’s certainly sad, but they were described as having severe underlying conditions so it’s not entirely surprisingly. A severe respiratory illness is a major murden on an already debilitated body.
@ALL
Shareholders demand Goldman bonuses
“Some of the US investment bank’s largest investors are furious about the New York-based firm paying record bonuses to its staff – bonuses are estimated to be $717,000 (£435,000) each for 2009, the biggest payout in the firm’s 140 years.
Investors claim that now profits are back, rewards should go first to shareholders because they suffered the cost of the credit crunch more than anybody else.
the article has a great ending
“Goldman’s chairman, Lloyd Blankfein, publicly apologised this week for the role of his bank in the credit crunch. The bank also said it would donate $500m (or 3% of what it has set aside to pay its employees this year) to help thousands of small businesses recover from the recession.”
Correction@Cassini Mission :
2 & 3rd. links were wrong . Here is the correct list …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy_8KVZS9I&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrFdndWjz9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gUf5zWuB_A
Sorry, heading didnt come out in previous post; it should have read “new tamiflu resistant swine flu is now in the UK
Cassini Mission : Maybe this is what is causing Global Warming ? …. in our whole solar system !
Hyperdimensional Hexagon Pt.1 – 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy_8KVZS9I&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvRaQnaKL_0&feature=video_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq4hjm-WB64&feature=video_response
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8370859.stm
…3 of the victims mentioned in this report are rumoured to have died. This may not be swine flu…this may be related to the pneumatic flu which broke out in the Ukraine.
Am awaiting the UK £ to match its price.
Mike
Fortunately this scam is slowly being exposed.
Gore being one of the main beneficiaries of this scam doesn’t help his case
This Youtube video is relevant and funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNzBRiAyn8o&feature=related
The worry is that the population (including me initially) fell for this nonsense. And even now this appalling, disgraceful cap and trade might still be introduced.
What sort of man is Gore.
A Necessary Ingredient For Recovery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RVerohRsDo&feature=sub
@Mother …
You come across much better in this video ; rather than your usual “wobbly picture” – which I personally always found irritating !
@RJ,
not sure I would believe what I read on a hacker’s blog (or the Daily Mail, for that matter) more than the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit…
==========
Max, if you’re going to be the financial propaganda guy for RT, then report on the coming implosion of the Russian banking system in 2010 as reported by Bloomberg News recetly when default rates hit an unbelievable 25%. [...] 2010 is just around the corner as is the coming collapse of the Russian banking system.
==========
I would only do this on PressTV, and from the point of view that this collapse is like a more severe case of what Australia and Canada are going thru at the moment … as Russia produces actual stuff.
One Women against the US / Afghanistan Fraud
A Woman Among Warlords
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxQObweBxm8&feature=sub
Must watch !
LANDOCRACY FOR PEASANTS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyUK-ZcRBrU&feature=sub
Global warming scam
One of the world’s leading climate change research centres has been accused of manipulating data on global warming after thousands of private emails and documents were leaked.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1229740/Hackers-expose-global-warming-Claims-leaked-emails-reveal-research-centre-massaged-temperature-data.html#ixzz0XURjfvbx
The chart would have more impact if it were empty…
the oil ran out at 2.32 this morning
Tories to pull British forces out of Germany
…The Shadow Defence Secretary told The Daily Telegraph that ending Britain’s 25,000 strong military presence on the Rhine would be part of a fundamental reorganisation of Nato forces designed to free troops for military operations outside Europe….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/6617358/Tories-to-pull-British-forces-out-of-Germany.html
Oh really ?
So now they’re showing their real colors !
What is this latest from Mish, On The Edge? The Shedlock Paradox? Is Mish trying to have his cake and eat it, too? If it is going to be deflation, then how exactly are we supposed to have a currency collapse?
Good morning, Stacy. Good morning, peeps. Just saw the link Youri left on the last thread about a possible temporary war surtax to “share the sacrifice” and shift even more burden onto everybody for an entirely useless, criminal occupation. I’m sure that’ll go over well considering that the majority of the country wants out of both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Good muuuning!
Has the world gone bonkers?
@Y’all
remember Y’all the sum of this site is hipper than you alone… I know I bang on ’bout this… but this is a great site full of up to the minute latest news and on the money links (mostly!)… so I always suggest taking the time and reading the comments first… before you desperately try and join in, because more often than not you will find you are just posting something that has already… been dealt with…. and where is the profit in that!!!
“50 oil tankers loitering off British coast as they lie in wait for fuel price hikes”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1229337/Petrol-prices-Oil-tankers-loitering-British-coast-lie-wait-price-hikes.html
I second that… geddit….
BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!