Stacy Summary: As Max said on RT yesterday, round two of announcing many billions in losses has begun. Now, re: the last story, “Blame Larry Summers,” do you agree? Or is there someone or something else that you think deserves more blame?
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Be gentle with each other, folks; there is no need to call each other names.
Climate change: It is real, ask the people on Pacific islands about the raising water levels. Ask the scientists watching the poles melt.
Solutions: There are none. It is already too late to stop the alterations of the environment. -If- people had listened to the environmental/alt. energy movement in the 1970s, cut down their use of oil-based technologies, looked for alternatives, quit having so many children, we might have had a chance. But… it didn’t happen, and it is therefore too late.
Any attempts to mitigate the damage now is akin to bailing out the Titanic with a tea cup. That is what no one is willing to say. The earth’s environment will be very different in the not-too-distant future. We need to make plans for that, not point fingers.
@Veritas
Yes agree, it would be based on a Constitutional crisis regarding global agreements. I have said too much, there are black copters outside.
It is a rumour though very interesting.
@WL
Yes, impeachment of Obama would be somewhat helpful but I suspect the bankers would remain in place.
@Iwunder
Bob Hoye is a market historian. His analysis comes from a market history perspective. I have listened to him for a while and give very little weight to his opinions. He will say things like “of course during the south sea bubble x happened so we are seeing that today”. Yeah, ok maybe things have changed a bit. When he is wrong he claims the timing is off. He will also flip flop quickly. No better than a cat randomly picking trends on a computer screen.
Nothing wrong with listening to these guys but you must be very critical, most are wrong as much as they are right.
Who is Bob Hoye? and why does he that the US dollars is going up imminently and not down? Any why was he correct last year when the US dollar would go up and the down from March to November 2009….. and Max Keiser was wrong? Max when will u interview himm
I’m GLAD, Mep.
I’ll try to be more agreeable and less snooty: but will it last???
@ frances – I was leaving and saw your last posts; we’re good. And LOL at the “donut holes” that was a good one.
@Mep:
You’re right. Quibbling is sucky like dribbling.
Wanna mud-wrestle?
Looky, there IS a Joe Donut!
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1038/940701916_de908e9d56.jpg
The flow is always from hypothesis to theory. You missed the whole “from theory to hypothesis part.”
Regardless of whether a theory is complex or simple, the first step in testing it involves formulation of one or more hypotheses.
Anyway, I’m through quibbling. About this, about what constitutes independent thinking, about all of it.
Cheers.
@mep
You hit the problem
The simple point I was making is that scientists are the ones who are qualified to collect, analyze, and interpret such data.
Climate science is in its infancy, this is not like mathematics or physics. The climate is very complex and not very well understood.
This core group of people have driven the AGW agenda.
@Mep:
Forgive me, Mep, for my harsh words. You called my posts shitting. So I as affronted.
Separate is spelled that-a-way. sorry for the jarring error…
I think if we continue to knock each other’s understanding then some of Mep might be some of me and some of me Mep and I think that’s a good thing for being more of a rounded person. I do not mean to be contrarian, I’m just quite different.
Joe and Jane Bag of Donuts! What? Are their children called the Donut Holes? Do they live in Sugarville? Is their swimming pool filled with sweet tea? Do they have a dog named Crumbles?
If Joe and Jane are suddenly opting to stop watching Monday Night Football and start educating themselves, well, then I think that’s a good thing. I don’t think Joe nor Jane have claimed expert status for themselves in much except bowling.
“are not based in science”
Neither is Copenhagen. Copenhagen is a political power grab.
Scientists do not need people to seperate other people into categories. Okay, well lets just fire all of the scientists and allow Joe and Jane bag o’ donuts to call themselves scientists– regardless of their education–and see how that works out. The simple point I was making is that scientists are the ones who are qualified to collect, analyze, and interpret such data. Opinions from skeptics outside of the field that are gleaned from what other non-scientists spread around the intertubes–curiously just before Copenhagen–are not based in science.
“I find belligerence masquerading as independent thinking abhorrent.”
This subjective stance is the predilection of a closed mind. Independent thinking is not to be subjected to public review: THAT’S WHAT MAKES IT INDEPENDENT.
@Mep:
I’m not trying to split hairs. The link you gave indicates:
“The first step in this process involves the deduction of one or more hypotheses designed to reflect the interrelationships among the constructs posited in the theory.”
The hypothesis is still the starting point for a valid scientific inquiry. The theory will be understood as valid or no through the application of a valid and proven hypothesis. The flow is always from hypothesis to theory.
Its about trying to hide the stealing of the taxpayers and normal persons money. Greatest robbery of all time probably. The average person is now stuck with the bill for the corporate pig bankers and investors stole. Great job if you can get it. Got to go to the ivy league and better british schools i believe to get in on the inside. Which is what its all about. All the rest of us are on the outside handing over all our childrens and grandkids money to these people.
@ frances – I do not find independent thinking abhorrent; I find belligerence masquerading as independent thinking abhorrent. And I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I do not find you particularly abhorrent.
Theories aren’t tested? Be careful with the hair-splitting.
I said “lay people” because it’s important to separate non-scientists from scientists when talking about where discrepancies in science lie.
Scientists do not need people to seperate other people into categories. Science operates independent of public inquiry in a free society. Discrepencies in science will always exist. The scientific method developed a way to operate imaginative perspective in a changing world. The G20 is operating in a global manner to consolidate control by coopting true science and by claiming a statis for scientific method. It is tyrannical and insane.
Being an independent thinker does not mean shitting on everything.
@Mep:
If you find my words to be “shitty” it is easy enough for you to avoid reading them in future. I shall be sure to give your, er, intellectual essays a wide verge.
Holy crap.
No, Crap and Trade.
Just call me ‘Joe Schmoe’, Mep. Because that’s the independent thinker you find abhorrent, and I like to think I am Very abhorrent in your estimation.
You claim me as a contrarian, yet almost all your posts are laced with cyanide. People just don’t live up to Mep’s estimations! Specially Americans.
What you claim for me is what you claim for literally everyone who does not agree with your limited outlook.
I take umbrage with the use of politic to thrust science forcefully down my gullet in the form of taxation and the state’s willful administration of force for profit.
“Theories and hypothesis are to be tested to determine whether there is support for them–which is why I said I’m far more interested in knowing where the debate is now among scientists with competing theories.”
You say you understand scientific method and yet write that. Theories are NOT tested. If a hypothesis is tested and there are discrepencies in the data, the hypothesis is thrown out. And as far as “competing theories” that is a joke. Competition in the market place and in science has been relegated to the dust bin.
@ TJ – You want to talk about sheeple and sources of information?
skeptics are never funded or published. Prove it. And do it without relying on out-of-context emails that went back and forth among 4 people.
Holy crap. You guys are off your effing rockers here.
@ Frances, I said “lay people” because it’s important to separate non-scientists from scientists when talking about where discrepancies in science lie. And I didn’t say that theory = truth. Theories and hypothesis are to be tested to determine whether there is support for them–which is why I said I’m far more interested in knowing where the debate is now among scientists with competing theories. And frankly, I don’t see what pulling in my comments about zhu zhu pets or criticizing where I link from has anything to do with climate. Looks more like an attempt to somehow discredit me as a person and throw me into the category of “sheeple.” Sorry, but if anything is pathetic, that is. Being an independent thinker does not mean shitting on everything that you don’t agree with or taking a contrarian stance to absolutely everything.
ClimateGate Who’s Who
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_ok37HDuE
@Waxman:
The man looks like a hog on Ritalin.
Why don’t we just use robots? The robots wouldn’t demand salaries, and they don’t resemble livestock.
@WL,..Nice link,.quite appropriate with what Frances was stating,.Scientists being the new Priests!
Don’t dare question their authority, or YOU will burn in the eternal pit of persecution, derision and damnation, YOU denier! ; )
http://www.kremc.com/news_information/page2_pc_news_pi_33_ai_376.htm
http://negawatt.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/price-jolt-electricity-bills-going-up-up-up/
Most areas are also paying for the lobbyist fees to monopoly utilities set to lobby the Senate for passage of the Cap bill.
Nice thing to foist on a nation during a depression.
Low estimates are that Cap and Trade will inherently raise US electric bills by 30%.
Here is a nice one
Waxman “cap and trade bill” writer
Rep. Waxman: “I don’t know the details. I rely on the scientists.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcq0Lxffwc
@Mini US … ” “Obama Promises Skyrocketing Energy Costs” ”
What he he is really saying is : the US$ will become worth less, so it’ll cost you more.
@WL
Good post.
“Obama Promises Skyrocketing Energy Costs”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNSZ62xiD4M
Wow, a politician making a promise they CAN keep. Sounds more like a threat than a promise
What I am interested in is knowing what the skeptics within the scientific community are saying these days.
At Mep.
Did you see the links I provided this morning concerning Adrianne Gibbs? Why does WHO swoop in these days to protect the interests of big Pharma over the interest of public health? And when did theory trump hypothesis and become truth?
@frances @skeptics
Heard this rumour today, don’t know if its true
うわさは作成されるObamaの弾劾のための計画である
@Frances
THANK YOU for not being a sheep!
@ Mep…..is that Ewe?
Have you noticed Huffington Post doesn’t have a link for Max Keiser any longer? There’s not an independent thinker anywhere on that site. I wondered where I recognised that smarmy tone from. You are pathetic!
I don’t understand where people get off saying that there is no underlying science.
Well. Is there?
“The continued debasement of science by Joe-Schmoe hacks who have an agenda of their own is extremely disconcerting.”
Has “Joe-Schmoe” entertained violence on a labratory? Has Joe hacked into files and distorted data? Does Joe wear a bomb in a vest and blow up scientists?
If the answer is no to the above questions, then Joe is not debasing true science. Joe has a right as an independent individual, though, to dialogue concerning real things and to ask questions. If dialogue and questions debase Science, then Science is a weakling entity not worthy of further consideration.
But I don’t believe Joe actually debases Science. Joe strengthens Science for inquiry is always bettered by contradiction.
What Joe debases is consensus truth. Fie to the notion that concensus truth leads to any better world than the one in which Joe finds himself now.
Joe is not responsible to a collective for his thoughts or his words. Joe is a free and independent person.
@Mep
“the skeptics within the scientific community were consistently proven to be on the wrong side of the debate”
Exactly, skeptics are never funded or published. That’s why those emails emphasise keeping their views out of circulation.
To hell with your science, I know when I’m being played for a sucker. Climate changes! Stop pretending it can be controlled if we only pay enough!
@Mep:
“Before even going there, though, what I think is really interesting is the manner in which lay people are elevated to the status as quasi-climatologists and are expected to meet some sort of “burden of proof” in order to satisfy other lay people.”
It is interesting that you used the term “lay people” is your expostulation concerning what really gets your goat. Lay people are necessarily excluded from privilege, whether within the church or within the scientific community. The laity, which consists of lay people, is not privy to the revelation available to the more special people: the priests or scientists.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/LAITY
1 : the people of a religious faith as distinguished from its clergy
2 : the mass of the people as distinguished from those of a particular profession or those specially skilled
Now, I’m not specially skilled at science. But I appreciate a good explanation of why I’m to be burdened with an onerous tax which will serve to benefit the criminal currency cartel which has already destroyed my country. So Please. Do not assign your projections on my person regarding the need for a privileged place within a social order when I’m bothered about my future outside science. We are talking POLITICS when it comes to Copehagen.
Now, when I read you I see a trusting sort. You often link to Huffington Post. The zhu zhu pets diatribe most likely could have been created through the means of a video produced by the operators of that web site. How do you know it was authentic? How do you know that the science you claim not to need to understand thoroughly is authentic science?
Can we skirt the whole issue of right to protest? I really don’t care about community and truth, so it is a mute point to point to a community of scientists who have reached concensus. There are other communities of scientists who stand in disagreement to your community of scientists, so it is really a matter of which community one chooses to stand in for one’s truth agenda.
It seems truth HAS an agenda always. It is usually to forward the special interests of those who stand to profit through the application of pressure on human activity. It seems this climate “truth” which you forward to me resembles in principal and activity the same old hegemonic truth foisted by religion on the world for eons.
Science does not have a concensus for truth. Politicians and rulers do. Science has been elevated to a religious status.
There is absolutely not one scientist who will stand and unequivocally say how much damage anthopomorphic carbon pollution will cause in future. THE THEORY IS ONLY A THEORY.
I’m afraid, Mep, that if you align yourself and your cause with true SCIENCE you will not have a leg to stand on.
@Mep
>> What I am interested in is knowing what the skeptics within the scientific community are saying these days.
Read the Skeptics Handbook, Parts 1 & 2 http://bit.ly/5ilJaD
Then come back and explain what doesn’t match your understanding of the debate.
@frances snoot
>> #12. Science suddenly masquerading as altruism.
That’s the most troubling; there are these people that join any ‘promotion’ (I like that term!) just to have their feelings acknowledged, nevermind the rationale for what they’ve signed themselves up to. Such people would happily go to the grave believing they’d done something of real virtue.
@ frances – I don’t understand where people get off saying that there is no underlying science. Before even going there, though, what I think is really interesting is the manner in which lay people are elevated to the status as quasi-climatologists and are expected to meet some sort of “burden of proof” in order to satisfy other lay people. I am not a hard scientist nor am I a climatologist. What I understand is the scientific method. And if one is to look back at the global warming debate within the scientific community over the course of the past several decades, it becomes pretty evident that the skeptics within the scientific community were consistently proven to be on the wrong side of the debate. Theories ranging from warming being caused by the proximity of the sun to the earth, and warming being caused by sunspots and more active suns have been disproven–with science. So I’m much less concerned with what Alex Jones, the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party, or some talking head on Faux News thinks they understand about climate change. “Those people” have shown themselves to be on the wrong side of just about every issue, anyway. What I am interested in is knowing what the skeptics within the scientific community are saying these days. What’s their beef with the science? How are they pushing the debate further? What are their new theories? How is the majority of the scientific community responding? The continued debasement of science by Joe-Schmoe hacks who have an agenda of their own is extremely disconcerting.
@Dedo
Great find. Stef ca always point out ‘the gun in the room’.
From the author of the Skeptics Handbook
‘Would anyone expect the public to vote the same way after they hear the news that the IPCC science is based on collusion, falsification of data and outright, undenied criminal behaviour? There are not many facets of human personalities that are near universal across cultures, genders, and ages, but a sense of injustice is hard-wired. There will be no forgiveness for those who tricked them, and ignorance will be no excuse. Voters will not just abandon the politicians who sacrificed us to JP Morgan and co, they will set land-speed records moving in the other direction. The fire is lit.’
JoNova — ClimateGate – the toxic bomb hidden in plain view
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/climategate-the-toxic-bomb-hidden-in-plain-view/
She seems to be hinting at retribution beyond that aimed at politicans. I must admit, living in the UK police state, I’m much more weary of sharing my opinions with those people that are so easily taken in by elite ‘promotions’ – as the the Daily Bell puts it. They could so easily turn Stasi and snitch.
I wonder whether useful idiots have any clue that they’re useful idiots? Or perhaps realising they have no critical faculty, being useful is all they ever strive to be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
#10. The claim that reducing CO2 emissions is the right thing to do anyway.
@AdamC: That would be Pascal’s Wager.
Might I add to the list?
#12. Science suddenly masquerading as altruism.
#13. Finance resembling the camptown races with bidding on which ‘horse’ will make the first round of the climate exchange. Greedy corporations vying for a slot in the races.
#14. Deflection of the issue at hand through an attempt to marginalize free thought by assigning the titles of stupid, shill, or corporate lackey of the oil monopolies on anyone daring to remain skeptical in the face of spurious evidence.
#15. Al Gore fullstop.
Watch this!,…NOW !!
@Adam.C,…Interesting guy you linked me to,.I’ve just finished watching this one:
http://www.freedomainradio.com/Videos/PlayVideo/tabid/84/Default.aspx?VideoId=http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/api/videos/bn5IskCSWp0
We’re in the Twilight Zone
I prefer the black & white version
http://www.surfthechannel.com/show/76829.html
Watts Up With That? — Spencer: Top 10 Annoyances in the Climate Change Debate
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/28/spencertop-10-annoyances-in-the-climate-change-debate/
#1. The term “climate change” itself.
#2. “Climate change denier”
#3. The appeal to peer-reviewed and published research.
#4. Appeal to authority.
#5. Unwillingness to debate.
#6. A lack of common sense.
#7. Use of climate models as truth.
#8. Claims that climate models have been tested.
#9. The claim that the IPCC is unbiased.
#10. The claim that reducing CO2 emissions is the right thing to do anyway.
Comment
#11.”The science is settled”
Adam C. is patiently correct in the call to debate the issue of anthropomorphic climate change as it relates to science alone.
We have been led through the nose by FEAR LONG ENOUGH. Fear set up the tidy police state for police interest. Fear brought the banker’s bailout heist to fruition for international banking interests. Fear is being used to justify colonialism in the 21st century through the term ‘terror’ and ‘extremists’. And now fear alone is hyping Copenhagen’s drive to create a new system of exchange which would effectively siphon the profit from labor from the people to the elite in perpetua.
Screw Copenhagen.
Seems to me that “climategate” is another way to focus the arguments on something other than the science underlying the Copenhagen assumption.
@Mep
I acknowledge your argument. I’ve worked for many years with coders and they agree that early coding raises lots of questions that they document in (old language) REM files, etc.
That being said, and given that these hacked files are quite old, l’d love to hear what ‘Harry’s’ current thinking is.
I’m sure you’d agree on this point.
@ Mep
The entire system is designed to allow polluters to buy a license to carry on as normal. What ever happened to the real environmental movement? Silly me, it was a setup for where we’re heading now.
Incidentally, I still put chocolate wrappers in my pocket till I get home to place them in the bin. Force of habit mate.
@ PhilH – I can’t get anything out of that. I work with much smaller, contained datasets, and can tell you that I often create copies and change filenames slightly just to keep the raw data separate from datasets where I use different variables to create new ones, create indices, etc. So I don’t see that as scandalous. Any scientist worth his/her salt will keep detailed notes of changes made to the structure of datasets, notes on which databases were used, notes on merged files, and on and on.
@Paul — exactly. HARRY_READ_ME.txt — methodological notes by lower-level coder — is also juicy:
“I am seriously worried that our flagship gridded data product is produced by Delaunay triangulation – apparently linear as well. As far as I can see, this renders the station counts totally meaningless. It also means that we cannot say exactly how the gridded data is arrived at from a statistical perspective – since we’re using an off-the-shelf product that isn’t documented sufficiently to say that. Why this wasn’t coded up in Fortran I don’t know – time pressures perhaps? Was too much effort expended on homogenisation, that there wasn’t enough time to write a gridding procedure? Of course, it’s too late for me to fix it too. Meh.“
http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/HARRY_READ_ME.txt
(For you, Mother…)
@Mep:
Are you willing to argue science for your climate beliefs? Seems like all we hear is it is a necessity, but there is no underlying science to back up the claims.
@ Mother Earth @Mep
It’s not the emails that are causing me concern.
It’s the models and the software development behind them.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climategate-computer-codes-are-the-real-story/
@ TJ – Taxes are a different thing, entirely. I don’t trust our current governments to come up with a sane way to handle climate change, either. China is trying to do more to incorporate a “cradle-to-cradle” policy . . . that makes sense to me. We at least need a skeleton of policy to come out of Copenhagen–something that’s not just higher taxes that will fall disproportionately on individuals along with a plan for further privatization of the environment.
@MEP
I’m not paying any more taxes to anybody!! Enough is enough and when I cruise out of the UK, it’s Adios Mother Fokkers!!!
It’s all gone to shit so I’m through analysing this rubbish.
They will shove it down “your” throats in Copenhagen. Sad but true…
@Mep:
Yes. But the problematic is that the position which Geithner holds, the sitting governor representing the US at the IMF bank, makes the successor automatically suspect and corrupted.
Unless one objects to Geithner’s physiognomy, then replacing him is a mute endeavour.
@ frances – I do worry about Geithner, though I’m hoping that he’s going to get pushed aside before too long.
@ TJ – WTF is that all about? Faux News, Big Business, and the Republican Party has had a policy of censorship and disinformation re: global warming:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-center/releases2/bush-administration-issues-mem
The GOP feared that Bush was weakest on the environment and they set out to embolden “the skeptics” at the expense of science . . . their strategy was to amplify the voices of the scientific minority in order to make it seem like there wasn’t a scientific consensus that global warming was occurring.
Boy, it’s disturbing to see people use partial e-mails as “proof” of scandal and bad science.
@Mep:
I’d be more worried about Geithner and less worried about Obama, if I were you. Obama is merely a figurehead.
Basically the powers overhead have decided to end our comfort and pleasure and substitute discomfort and pain. If death ensues, then all the more win/win for the cause!
Standing our ground is the best means of action.
@WL:
It is a matter of deconstructing rhetoric to get at the underlying assumptions, not a viable means of directional travel.
We don’t get there: we always were there.
@TJ:
Love those nasty pussy jokes.
I’m really curious as to how much dissent Obama, himself, if exposed to. My understanding is that Summers gets to decide which economic news gets to the President and he gets to decide who talks to Obama about the economy. I don’t know how often Obama meets with Volcker and others on his economic council. Would seem that the female academic he brought on board would be giving him a fuller picture of the the economy. One other thing: it seems odd that we haven’t heard much of anything from the labor secretary. I think labor secs. are usually behind-the-scenes kinds of people, but this situation calls for that position to be much more visible.
@frances
True skepticism makes no claims on reality.
Skepticism is the compass, the route is undefined and the destination never achieved.
@ Frances
Oh C’mon!! Don’t tempt me..there’s an excellent joke there
@WL:
True skepticism makes no claims on reality.
Yes, Dedo. And I don’t care if I’m as disagreeable as a cat let out into the rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRAhiBtOrQ&feature=related
@frances
Exactly, I was just going to say that…
We are all consuming a hegemony sandwich, most don’t realize it.
Only skepticism gets you closer to reality, though never achieve it.
I think Sparta promulgated the right philosophy! : )
@Frances,…..You should be a speech writer,..
It is Nazi !! lol,..very good
We are moving towards a world arena where all that is considered rational truth is calling into being through state hegemony by the uber-rich elite.
“All that is rational is real and all that is real is rational” defines the Hegelian state. Hegel had a caveat:
“For Hegel the attribute of reality belongs only to that which at the same time is necessary: “In the course of its development reality proves to be necessity.””
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1886/ludwig-feuerbach/ch01.htm
Reality as necessity is the underlying philosophical premise to all of Mother Earth’s ‘debate’. It is a flawed assumption. The number of adherents to the Hegelian flaw are legion. That accounts for the relaxed and bored attitude towards those in power with regards to the currency monopoly. What is being billed as an understood, a not arguable stance, one must understand is sifted down through the germanic philosophical sciences.
It is the enemy of the free agency of man. It serves only the strong: it is distinguished by the lack of compassion to the weak or the old.
It is Nazi.
Our world today has been captured by agents of the uber-rich working to institute a world order where science is what they claim it to be or deign parameters within the context of their reason:
“The swine flu virus did not result from a laboratory accident, the World Health Organization said Thursday, working to debunk rumors started by an Australian virologist and circulated by news outlets all over the world.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/15/health/policy/15flu.html
It’s called “e-verify”, which is NOT another word for the scientific method. Free markets and free science no longer exist.
Screw WHO. Screw peer-reviewed journal hegemony. Screw big-pharma which IS government now.
@WL
Let me worry about that..
@Mother Earth
Thanks. I hope we can continue to disagree but never be disagreeable. I know I’ve crossed that line sometimes. I apologise.
For future debating reference: Hierarchy of Disagreeement
http://blog.createdebate.com/2008/04/07/writing-strong-arguments/
@mother
Maybe we should ask David Suzuki an architect of the DDT ban how it feels to be a vessel of death?
It seems you have an emotional investment which is losing value causing you to obnubilate the CO2 issue.
Peer-reviewed journal protocol silenced Adrian Gibbs:
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/world-news/2009/05/14/swine-flu-shock-claim/expert-says-virus-created-in-lab-by-vaccine-scientists.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?A-H1N1-Swine-Flu-Likely-Originated-in-US-Lab&id=2526695
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/swine-flu-may-be-human-error-who-probes-claim/
“Gibbs and two colleagues analyzed the publicly available sequences of hundreds of amino acids coded by each of the flu virus’s eight genes. He said he aims to submit his three-page paper tomorrow for publication in a medical journal.”
Here’s WHO!
“You really want a very sober assessment” of the science behind the claim, Fukuda said yesterday at the WHO’s Geneva headquarters. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta has received the report and has decided there is no evidence to support Gibbs’s conclusion, said Nancy Cox, director of the agency’s influenza division. She said since researchers don’t have samples of swine flu viruses from South America and Africa, where the new strain may have evolved, those regions can’t be ruled out as natural sources for the new flu.”
@Adam C
I like you comments on the financial situation a lot. The rest not so much..
@frances snoot
Thanks for the feedback.
It was tempting to include a lot more. I might do another focusing on the pathocracy and those weak-minded folks who go along with it.
@Mother Earth
The burden of proof still rests with you, I’m afraid. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. (That’s not an invitation to just make it up, BTW)
Until you provide some evidence, ‘the debate’ as you call it, hasn’t even been entertained much less argued. Just leave it those with common sense to clean up after your political mess and put honest science back on its feet.
Here’s a new avatar for you:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&resnum=0&q=little%20miss%20bossy&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
@Mother
How does it feel to be a vessel of shite?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rFmnhIdes
@AdamC:
Love the flow chart, but it is missing the necessary link to the media for seduction of the masses.
@WL
It takes a pretty determined brand of ignorance to see no reason to do what climate action proponents want you to do. How about general wisdom? Karma? How does it feel to be a vessel of death?
@Mother
Nobody will convince you to change your view..that is up to you
The point is to consider the ramifications of being wrong. One should do this in all aspects of life, otherwise the “myopiates” take you down the rabbit hole.
Just like the DDT, noble intentions cost the poor millions of lives.
@ Mother Fokker
You are over!!
Obama Promises Skyrocketing Energy Costs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNSZ62xiD4M
@Gb, WL
What if the sun is made of cheese ? If you have any sense you don’t prioritize the debate you suggest. It is typical for people that do nt want to lose the argument to look for new angles and approaches to continue the debate. It is the moving target strategy, like Marvin Minsky or Daniel Dennet explaining consciesness. They can’t, they just like the attention they get in the debate. I think most people have better things to do..
well there will come a time that the people who falcified the data of the climate hoax for their career will go to jail.
It is not easy for the ones who have commited themselves to this hoax to suudenly turn around. That is how the mind works and I hope that Mother earth ones feel free to let it go…
@Mother
We know your views…
What if you are wrong?
What are the ramifications?
What will happen to the poor in emerging and third world countries?
@Adam C
i too like the diagram – now if we can cut of the parasitic ends, perhaps we could live again!
@WL:
Can you imagine relegating someone to intellectual darkness just because the marginalized doesn’t agree with a concensus born of greed and hope for personal gain? That’s the antithesis of the scientific method!
Good link.
@Mother
since when is any debate or discussion a waste of time?
what an awful way to be dismissive
Dubai, take a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxRWHFuTPBs
@WL
It’s a waste of time.
Rigging a Climate ‘Consensus’
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703499404574559630382048494.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
IRS files $79,000 tax lien against Schwarzenegger [Updated]
November 27, 2009 | 11:14 am
The Internal Revenue Service has filed a federal tax lien against Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for nearly $80,000, public records show.
“The lien was filed May 11 at the Los Angeles County recorder’s office for $79,064, according to a record in an electronic database that includes lien filings. The record does not indicate what property the lien was placed on, but it lists the debtor as Arnold Schwarzenegger with the governor’s home address in Brentwood.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/11/irs-files-79000-tax-lien-against-schwarzenegger.html
@Y’all
gotta go and play… but here are some words from Liberace I like… ‘Health is Wealth’
The Oil Drum | Dubai’s Debt Troubles: Beginning of the Next Leg Down? http://bit.ly/8aCDHg
@frances
we here don’t need to apologise… though most of us with manners do… It’s the internet…. I do love ‘Words’ and sometimes they stick in my head and tickle me… even more so when I don’t understand them!!!
Talkin about Buster and Smart Dogs
Buster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlkdtS8OFlA
Smart Dog: http://www.wimp.com/skateboardingdog/
For make benefit glorious nation of Khazakstan.
hey stacy
is your part of OTE up yet?
looking forward to it
Well, I heard the word or read it somewhere. It popped into my head like most words do. Maybe it was hitchhiking in America?
Sorry if it was rude. It wasn’t meant to be.
@frances
I was interested in your meaning mostly…. honest… we don’t use the word here… so I’d nevar seen it before… just a word question!!!
@Phil:
Sorry. Just noticed you said that you do want one. Do you? I mean, so many people are going to die, and the same nuisance makers retain control.
Marietta:
Don’t think everyone here WANTS an economic collapse. The way things are going it is more an economic transfer of wealth and the orderly dissolution of one currency exchange for another with the same criminals benefitting. IMHO
Also for those who like Daniel Hannan MEP in UK
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100018195/can-these-euro-philes-be-any-more-pompous/
At least two 9/11 plotters may plead insanity http://bit.ly/7m7UCX
@Marietta/Phil – here is a good link — A Faith-Based Recovery http://bit.ly/5tcyKU
@marietta … WANTS ? … I do at least
There is no way this can go on .. and on and on , without causing more destruction and more debt slavery, whether it be of 3rd world countries or Western individuals.
The whole game is crooked , with not just the US Govt. being the main actor, but other Govts. as well.
The problem I see is that the PTB will remain in power ( thanks to MSM ) and blind the public with yet more (non-) science nonsense … for another turn at the big casino wheel.
Ron Paul’s initiative is the starting point for “real” change …. if that can ever happen that is !
@Supergeek:
Well. I meant well and if I was not culturally asute in using British slang you have had your say about it. Not MY words: if I make up a word I’d put it in single quote marks like this one:
‘nimseypoop’
Do with that one what you’d like.
Apologies for the flickr in the vid.
@Adam C
The debate is over.
Summers, I made a video about his influence (together with Rubins) some time ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbUm29Fcf88
@marietta
Yes I do atleast – we need to clear out the bad debts BUT I would hate to see a firesale auction happen and only see the greedy scumbag bankers buy up everything
Isn’t Summers V1.0 from the Clinton era to blame along with Summers V2.0 and Bush, Geithner, Bernake, Greenspan, Etc.? DOn’t we want spending to stop anyway so that the colapse will just be over as quickly as possible? Isn’t that what will happen if the Fed is audited, a total collapse once the extent of the problem is known? Isn’t that what everyone here WANTS?
@frances
I would like to use one of your ‘Words’… so a serious question…. when you used that great word ‘TOPPERS’ recently… er I had to look on the urban dictionary…thing and frankly some of the meanings well they were quite rude…BOOYAH!!!
Example ..toppers – 1 definition – nipples, the things in the middle of some ones boobies, that become hard when stimulated and are really hot when are…etc.
and Twice BOOYAH!!!
“Even so, there is no sign of inflation anywhere and the government is able to borrow capital at record low costs. Last week 3-month Treasuries went negative while the 2-year T-bill has fallen off a cliff. Why? Because Bernanke ended the guarantee on money markets so investors are fleeing to safety again. Ordinary retail investors who can’t do bigtime cross-border currency transactions or High Frequency Trading, need a place to hide. Hence, USTs. They’re forking over their money to Uncle Sam for under 1 percent interest. It’s highway robbery. At the same time, consumer credit is shrinking, bank lending is down, and 1 out of 4 homeowners is upside-down. Money is not moving and the economy is on a ventilator. We need more stimulus.”
Whitney’s article seems to be a plea for more stimulus rather than a rebuke against Summers. At this point we are in the throes of a FSAP with the IMF. Why does Whitney ignore the IMF functionaries working with the government? Any money siphoned for stimulus at this point is a pure gift to the international bankers.
I wouldn’t trust Team Obama with a lemonade stand.
Hotel owners, like home owners, behind on payments – Yahoo! Finance http://bit.ly/51JPyh
@AnythingBut:
Wild boar and Republicans seems to be the state animals here in Floridee.
Thanks, glad you liked the link! Missed your input. Sharon has vanished, but we hold hope that she will excape from Dedo’s basement where she has been in some kind of forced labor for factory-farmed hotdogs.
@Super,…..What’s a meta for,..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta
@Frances Snoot
Bin fishin’ mostly. Not much cloggin’.
How’s Buster for huntin’ wild boar, BTW?
You’re certainly on the scent, aren’t you? This link you posted is hot:
http://mostlyeconomics.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/revisting-keynes-idea-of-international-clearing-union/
We can’t sell the debt we have, how are we going to sell any more?
Nice to know…
ClimateGate Who’s Who
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_ok37HDuE
What about “Sir” Evelyn Rothschild? Didn’t he bring down Lehman and then carve it up with JPMorgan Chase? Wasn’t he a figure behind the banker bailout pressure on the Senate?
Discussion about Lehman:
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?p=417811
@adam
WARNING: I’m thinking it may be a long night for some!!!
@Supergeek
Uncommon common sense???
@Adam
and what’s stating the bleedin obvious???
@Supergeek
A comparative figure of speech???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
@adam
What’s a metaphor???
Wow I couldnt really read much more of the Counter-Punch article… like Lloyd said stimulus will not do anything in a country that is already publicly and privately in major debt. House holds are deleveraging and a fresh round of spending by creating government phantom jobs and other BS will not do much but skew the GDP numbers again…. Larry Summers has a big role to play in this crap but give me a break….
There are plenty of folks to blame for the mess we’re in. Summers certainly is not blameless, but Whitney is being a wee bit hysterical in his scapegoating.
The chance that another round of ‘stimulus’ spending will do any more than the first round is wishful thinking. The money would just disappear. Obama’s “shovel-ready” projects are analogous to Dubai’s palm tree island. When the credit stops, the ‘stimulus’ stops.
Most likely Obama got his orders from the Chinese: “Quit your reckless spending. Or else.”
@Adam C
Good link! High treason might be understated lol
Posted this under the other links but:
Wake Up, America! – Pravda.Ru http://bit.ly/6tU9Sp
“I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within” – General Douglas MacArthur.
Is “Treason” the right word for it?
DIAGRAM: HOW THE ECONOMY REALLY WORKS
http://www.twoplustwoequalsfour.org/post/260828445/how-the-economy-really-works