Stacy Summary: Morning y’all. Dubai jitters have gone away for the West as Abu Dhabi has now had to step in. I’d say that it was a clever move by Sheikh Mohammad to dump that bad news in such a way as it caused such international panic as to force the emir of Abu Dhabi to dig into his deep pockets.
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First
Bloody Cold this morning!
Mike
Is anyone closing their Tungsten vaults?
@#2 mick/southport
And really wet too!!!
The question is, if there comes some heavy blows (and there will) soon as with dubai… will Silver go up or down? Will such a sale of gold and/or silver as took place with Dubay be triggered elsewhere also or is it just a “dubaithing” ?
david mcwilliams says that ireland is certain for default
http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/wholestory.aspx-qqqt=DAVID%20MACWILLAMS-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqsectionid=3-qqqc=5.2.0.0-qqqn=1-qqqx=1.asp
recommends that we have a good pray to hope we get out of the mess
Home from Dubai for Eid, workers axed over SMS
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Home-from-Dubai-for-Eid-workers-axed-over-SMS/articleshow/5282539.cms
Man was trying to use Tinyurl Thingy
Dubai is first. Who would have ever thought that building a “flower shaped” island of expensive homes would fail or that a rediculous hotel with a built-in ski resort in the middle of the desert would now be almost empty.
Just ask the British, these are sound investments.
Bet there are thousands of thing like this all over the planet Earth that we don’t know about: YET.
Methinks Abu Dhabi simply did not want the US to succeed in trippin Dubai. Other countries are going to fall to protect the US as long as the US can act. Maybe an international financial alliance could trip the US before it does more damage, but with all the trust issues I would not expect that to happen..
Dubai World’s debt freeze ‘carefully planned’ http://tinyurl.com/yekv6aa
Dubai exchange nosedives as trading resumes http://tinyurl.com/yf5dcxe
Al Gore finally accepts Lord Monckton’s challenge to a highly uncivilized debate over the issue of anthropogenic climate change, in a special extended edition of RapNews, as we count down to the Copenhagen Climate Conference – aka COP15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBzR0-j0O0o&feature=player_embedded
One thing that we don’t know about yet in full is the auto company which Warren Buffet invested in China which builds “green cars.” Went up about 500% after that.
I remember reading [sorry no link] that they sold about 10 cars in China which was their only production. This was reported about 3 months ago.
Someone should tell Warren that the Chinese are yellow and not green. The gov aliens in Wahington DC are the “green ones.”
@Y’all
everytime I hear the name lord monkton… I just think of Lord Haw Haw!!!
Carbon trading is a fraud playground. I completely agree with the criticism. The way it is set up is wrong because savings in emissions get credits to emit. It is as saying ‘no matter what you do, there will be emissions’. There should be no carbon emissions whatsoever, so a simple progressive tax on carbon fuels (reinvested in alternatives) would do the trick just fine.
@Mother … there will be emissions’
Yes, and those emitting will pay.
The Chinese will be coming soon with their electric cars.
The problem is making Western politicians accept the reality. The old Lobby structures will try as hard as hell to keep us on oil…. by bribing the usual politicians.
Mike2liverpool “Bloody Cold this morning!”
Huh!? Can’t be we’ve got “Global Warming”
Cap and Trade will keep your pocket warm wit hot money.
Cap and Trade will keep your head warm of anger.
Derivatives & Carbon trading http://tinyurl.com/ygnuupv
Lessons, schmessons. Where will the next “technical default” or default default occur?
Re: carbon trading, I like the idea of taxing polluters. That, and making them pay to clean up their pollution. Chevron can start. Make them pay for cleanup, tax their cleanup spending, and start an environmental fund with the taxes.
In the end, this video is sadly just as dismissive of Monckton as it is Gore. And, the conclusion is absurd.
However, parts of it are somewhat entertaining.
@youri
easy youri you know you weren’t programmed for humour… check your circuits you may have gotten a bit of damp in them!!!
@Phil
There will be those that realize that the only thing needed it so increase the marginal cost of carbon emissions, and there need not be any political consensus to do that..
For the War on Carbon
Guardian — Top 10 green living myths
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/nov/26/top-10-green-living-myths
@Y’all
here come the… oh nevermind…oh yeah… RIP mininova!!!
@Supergeek
I damp your Geek circuits with greenhous gas ROFL.
@ Phil – China looks to be taking climate change much more seriously than we are. They’re even in the process of building new housing developments using sustainable methods.
Check out Waste = Food when you have the time.
@Adam C
Point number one agrees with my previous statement. Rather than seeing that as a reason not to be efficient, it should be seen as a reason to change the cap and trade mechanism.
Hmmm errr What next ?
Meat grown in laboratory in world first
Scientists have managed to grow a form of meat in a laboratory for the first time, according to rep…..
http://tinyurl.com/yh9qxqd
Pffftttt ooo emm errr Speechless
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6680989/Meat-grown-in-laboratory-in-world-first.html
Just in case using Tiny URL thinngy for the first time i order to save space
ROFL use to be of Concern maybe 8 years back bits/bytes n stuff
@Mep …China looks to be taking climate change much more seriously than we are
Yes, I agree.
China imports loads of German technology and goods for their green projects. IIRC, 1/3rd. of German Big Industry exports went to China.
@Youri
doh!… I’ts so sad when someone is so insecure they have to pretend to find their own jokes homorous!!!
“Hey Scoty go Long on Vegitable Meat and Shot the farms” ROFL
@Mother Earth
Is anyone actually implementing Carbon Trading in such a way as to reduce CO2 emissions?
@Supergeek … I’ts so sad when someone is so insecure they have to pretend to find their own jokes homorous!!!
@Supergeek … I’ts so sad when someone is so insecure they have to criticize nearly everyone posting on this board !
Hope you found that one funny !
@Adam….
Copenhagen agreement would cede U.S. sovereignty, mandate a massive wealth transfer from the United States to pay reparations for “climate debt” to Third World countries and create a new “world government” to enforce the treaty’s provisions
@Supergeek
Well if you don’t have the humour to laugh about it…somebody has.
Dubai: the geo-politics: Iran vs. The United States.
“Abu Dhabi, the wealthiest member of the UAE and a close ally of the US, may be pressuring Dubai to limit its links to Iran. Indeed, this pressure may be behind statements coming from Abu Dhabi about offering “selective” support for Dubai. Companies or creditors thought to be too linked to Iran could find themselves shut out of any bailout. The United States government, which has remained somewhat taciturn throughout this crisis, is no doubt encouraging Abu Dhabi to apply this pressure. In part because of Dubai’s connections to Iran, US financial institutions are not among the biggest creditors to Dubai World.”
http://tinyurl.com/y9xom8s
Rothschild appointed to help sell Dubai World assets
http://tinyurl.com/yjb5j23
China isn’t being green; it’s adjusting to a post-petroleum world.
@ Adam – I agree. At least they are adjusting, though.
@gonzomarx …. Dubai: the geo-politics: Iran vs. The United States.
Great find …
Of all the states of the United Arab Emirates federation, Dubai has maintained the closest ties to Iran.
PS@gonzomarx …. Dubai: the geo-politics: Iran vs. The United States.
Isn’t Britain the “protectorate” of Dubai ?
That should be funny !
@Adam
No, so we are on the same side on this issue.
@Dan
This is one of the occasions the constitution is suddenly very important (while the US is in an illegal war etc.). Moreover the constitution button is used basically to disable its rules. This is like objecting to a ship security manual saying that in case of fire all passengers need to enter lifeboats and leave the ship, and then somebody going: “But we can just leave the ship like that!!”. Well, in an emergency you can, that is why it is in the fcking manual.
@ Bonn
Meat grown in laboratory
Hmm errr starting of a new Religion ?
“Thou Shall Not Kill ”
ROFL talkin to myself cause thinking of its Ramifications !!!
The US should consider itself lucky not to be so exposed to Dubai. Instead, we want to disrupt Dubai’s ties with Iran so that, what? So we may start doing more business with them? Pure genius.
@ Adam C
“Is anyone actually implementing Carbon Trading in such a way as to reduce CO2 emissions?”
good question
China sets targets for 2020 carbon cuts http://tinyurl.com/yfpbyrc
@Mep
On the urgency to adjust, we also agree, but not for the same reasons, though there’s overlap.
China can use the state to achieve its switch. As corrupt as that state is, at least it knows that real investment in ‘green’ technologies is the only thing that’ll keep the country prosperous and them in power.
As for our corrupt Western states… they’ll take the carbon money and run. They have no interest in ‘the state’ beyond extracting wealth from it.
If you want to see a change it’ll have to be done by your own investment and outside of the carbon cartel.
@Bonn
Hmm errr starting of a new Religion ?
You’re close. The food giants are preparing to market/sell Hala Ham and Kosher Pork
@phil
youri is able to be unfunny all by himself… WOW!!! They always said you were paranoid!!!
@Mother Earth
Yup. That much I knew. I wasn’t being confrontational.
Just interested if the campaigning is for anything positive to the climate cause right now, and then, if there’s any likelyhood of shaping schemes to achieve desired aims later.
Any bright spots?
Google: ” Carbon trading: Creator of mechanism may be its destroyer ” (The Financial Times)
Cause If I a put the link you can’t read it.
The Cap and Trade is faulty in many ways. It’s is poisened by wrong intentions and faulty sollutions.
In fact the whole environmental debate is lacking fundamentals.
A view examples:
- 70% of China’s industry is fueled by coal but because they’ve got some huge hydro power dams they can level with the cap and trade. Does that help the pollution problem?
- Windmills can never be a sufficient sollution if we realy want to tackle pollution yet everbody talks about it if it is. It’s an imaginary sollution.
- Solar Power could be a sollution yet little investments are done except for Germany who did take it seriously.
- If everybody is to drive an electric car there aren’t enough resources for the batteries to realy get to that point. So is an imaginary sollution.
- CO2 on which the cap and trade is based is not the problem pollution which for example causes “Acid Rain” is, yet nobody talks about it anymore.
To name a view fundamentals.
@dan valley
>> create a new “world government” to enforce the treaty’s provisions
I read the draft treaty. It’s a shocker! It’s odd that a building block of life: carbon, should become the sole basis of tyrannical (when are they otherwise?) world government.
I guess the only way to fight back is to keep breathing.
Ya know the sayings about taxing the sun? A carbon market will be the closest they could get to that. Hey, they could count heartbeats and tax us for those. Let’s see, new taxes.
Heartbeats everybody has em so it’s fair.
Footsteps, to offset increased surveillance costs.
Breaths, you’re using oxygen!
Blinks, the blind get a break here.
Keystrokes, again, you must pay to be spied upon.
Coughs, infectious diseases aint no joke!
Sneezes, even worse than coughs!
Swallows of food and drink, you either ate a carbon sequestering plant or worse!
Sleep, time you could be slaving.
Speaking, by the syllable and decibels after a flat fee for permission to speak at all and administration costs.
Going potty. You really do hate the environment don’t you?!
Any thoughts that aren’t of work.
And work itself! In Colombia people need to pay for a license to work, many people can’t afford to pay, now we too can pay this tax!
If you don’t agree to pay these taxes you’re a denialist of whatever justification can be construed and you’re probably in the way of human survival itself.
@Adam C
Well it’s only a matter of time, and I don’t mean this cynical, before you get a “Carbon Breathing Tax”. In fact this was thought about by the NWO via the Club of Rome, Bilderberg Meeting and the Trilateral commission ‘Man as his own worse enemy”.
That’s the reason why they had chosen CO2 in the first place so they could complete the total enslavement of man kind. These satanist don’t play games.
ABC website tells kids when they should die http://tinyurl.com/kl3ve5
@ Adam C
I read the draft treaty. It’s a shocker! It’s odd that a building block of life
AAwwe they are just a Bunch of Lunatics and they gonna fall flat on thier face and we gonna have a hearty Laugh later
My only Worry/concern is if these Lunatics usher in a WW 3 using another False Flag Covert ops.
And or a Bio weapon – this Scares me the most
One Of these Lunatics/Bankers has been caught on the record well 1940′s or so saying that “Wars dont Kill Enough people” he never mentioned or seemed bothered who won the war or whatever the war was about
Like Mc Afee antivirus these guys operate the same way Release the Virus and Kiching make the Profits.
@stacey. how many times do people have to learn these lessons.
@Adam C
There realy is not one mention of ‘world government’ in the circulated draft treaties. The is a COP based governing body, but that is not ‘world government’. On the contraty it mentions ‘in agreement with local governments’ quite a lot. You are really spouting crap, lies and false suggestions. Very sad.
Following the US Clean Air Act, enforcement took the form of a new type of system for limiting noxious emissions at the lowest possible cost. The system, used to encourage companies to eliminate substances such as NITROGEN OXIDE and SULPHUR DIOXIDE, was known as cap and trade.
Strict limits were placed on the amount of the substances that companies could emit, and companies could trade their quota of such emissions with one another, so the companies that cleaned up first benefited most.
The market, so the theory went, would discover where emissions could be cut at the least cost, and by gradually ratcheting down the quotas, the federal government could achieve its pollution controls with minimal interference.
When governments came to negotiate the Kyoto protocol in 1997, the US suggested its cap-and-trade system could be adapted to greenhouse gases. Other countries, the European Union in particular, reacted sceptically. But they gradually came round, and cap and trade became a cornerstone of the new treaty.
IT WENT WRONG WITH CHANGING THE REAL POLLUTIONS with CO2 IN THE CAP AND TRADE
But there is more to it – Read more: Carbon trading: Creator of mechanism may be its destroyer http://tinyurl.com/ykyutgr
>> ABC website tells kids when they should die
http://tinyurl.com/kl3ve5
Whilst I think this criticism is slightly overstated, the guilt-ing of young children sickens me. They have such little control over their own consumption habits. Granted, there is the pester-power factor, but surely even the most ardent CO2/AGWs shouldn’t want to target children as a vector to get at the parents. It’s bullying the most innocent who have neither the skills of argument nor the personal autonomy to fight back.
It’s violence done to them for “their own good.”
Did Christianity Cause the Crash?
“America’s mainstream religious denominations used to teach the faithful that they would be rewarded in the afterlife. But over the past generation, a different strain of Christian faith has proliferated—one that promises to make believers rich in the here and now. Known as the prosperity gospel, and claiming tens of millions of adherents, it fosters risk-taking and intense material optimism. It pumped air into the housing bubble. And one year into the worst downturn since the Depression, it’s still going strong.”
http://tinyurl.com/yja2ptu
I wonder how many people got into day trading and speculating after hearing a “prosperity” sermon and who do they blame when it went tits up? God, Themselves or the Devil, front-running them.
I love the idea of Jesus being the lender of last resort
@Mother Earth
You are obviously correct. It doesn’t say “we are going to institute a world government.”
Notes from the treaty indicating a world “government”
- Government
“(a) The government will be [...] responsible for the management of the new funds and the related facilitative processes and bodies.”
- Redistributive powers
“(b) The Convention’s financial mechanism will include a multilateral climate change fund… ”
- Enforcement powers
“(e) an international registry for the monitoring, reporting and verification of compliance of emission reduction commitments, and the transfer of technical and financial resources from developed countries to developing countries”
The Hidden Cost of War (video) – http://bit.ly/5bJzOd
@Mother Earth
Learn to argue, please. We’ll learn more faster.
http://blog.createdebate.com/2008/04/07/writing-strong-arguments/
The tawdry tale of the top two global warming gurus in the business world
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/9629
Note:
Strong’s aunt was one of the handlers of the puppet Mao Rothschild Tse Tung (nee Ho, like his half-brother Ho Rothschild Chi Minh). Strong takes orders from David Rockefeller.
@ Phil
Re the chart of the owners of the Fed Reserve, note that Al Gore’s daughter is married to the grandson of Jacob Schiff. We’re looking at a family business.
(Schiff–> ?Scherff–>Bush?)
Follow the blood.
@Joe
Good Vid!
Rumsfeld 2.3 Trillion Dollars missing Pentagon Vid http://tinyurl.com/6o9ywp
@anything but green.again … Re the chart of the owners of the Fed Reserve, note that Al Gore’s daughter is married to the grandson of Jacob Schiff. We’re looking at a family business.
(Schiff–> ?Scherff–>Bush?)
Wow , you’ve got sharp eyes !
The Club … from George Carlin.
Man was he smart !
@youri
ahhh accounting fraud knows no bounds!
Spain’s economic troubles: Unsustainable | The Economist http://bit.ly/6vCIiN (Spain’s unemployment is 19%)
@Adam C
Notes from the treaty indicating a world “government”
- Government etc.
WHAT? Is that supposed to rhetoric to prove that the treaty is ushering in world government? None of what you posted in anyway suggest world government. Now just just posted @Mother learn to argue. ROFL. Oh, you’ve made my day.
Talk about taking the beam out of your own eye.
Webster Tarpley pointed out an other problem with cap and trade on the AJS yesterday.
All food cost will go up causing a large group of the world population already on the verge of hunger starvation to die. Cap and trade will come on top of an already predicted rise in soaring food prices and food shortages.
Developed countries face threat of soaring prices and food shortages http://tinyurl.com/yzo4f6w
Effectively this will mean genocide on a large part of worlds population.
@NicAbbo77
Please point out my error(s).
Why does the Iraq war cost so much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAYWH_0uowM&feature=related
Indictments where are they ?
@NicAbbo77
Also, and as a aside, the only rhetorical world I used was “indicating”. I suppose you might want to include section headers as rhetorical, but those are clarifications to the quotations which do all of the work of the ‘argument’.
I could be wrong about EVERYTHING, which is why I’m happy to be corrected, but corrected with objective evidence/quotations/facts.
@ Phil
Thanks. Would love to have sharp eyes, but I don’t. I just like snooping around backstage.
@Joe
Well this unfundamented optimism doesn’t buy your bread. The optimists were wrong from the beginning. In fact huge troubles in Greece also and if Italy hadn’t have the Euro the would be bankrupt already. Eastern Europe also big troubles.
Is the next Dubai in Europe? http://tinyurl.com/yznanqn
Funny thing….spoke to a Polish guy lately and because a lot of Polish people were used to take care of their own food they don’t feel the crises that much, at least that’s what he said. Poland makes their own home “grown” Vodka for instance. Very good stuff I can tell from my own personal experience.
“Don’t be a sports fan.” Good advice.
True News: The Case Against Climate Change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNRW5qMRnIU
Other thing about cap and trade. Do you trust these guys to lead it all?
Global warming scam, Rothschild to take the lead in carbon credit trading http://tinyurl.com/yhfw6cp
Rothschild, E3 launch carbon credit investment fund (Reuters) http://tinyurl.com/ylrncny
Carbon Advice Group Plc is pleased to announce the appointment of Oliver Rothschild as its non-execu http://tinyurl.com/yfmxz3h
Fellow Emitters,
When a target is set to reduce carbon emissions by 80%, what do you think that means?
Well, the Georgia Guidestones give you a hint.
The target means to reduce the emitters by 80%. And that’s only the beginning.
Some background:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=PYl4hkFRdTk&feature=related
@Adam…the point is to stop the breathing of most of the worlds population
Hi ppl,
I just bought a new Pc with 480 parallel cores Nvida graphic card and wanted to do some low latency algorithmic “auto pilot” app to laid back in my basement while watching profitometer rolling over it’s max integer.
So do you know some good algo trading blogs with algorithm descriptions and hints?
Or maybe you have your own to share?
/cheers
@Adam C
Very good Vid!
This guy realy nailed all the info as such. Should do this too cause I’ve got a lot of info.
AWESOME!
via danny valley
Al Gore finally accepts Lord Monckton’s challenge to a highly uncivilized debate over the issue of anthropogenic climate change, in a special extended edition of RapNews, as we count down to the Copenhagen Climate Conference – aka COP15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBzR0-j0O0o
@abbo
er… “made my day”… ditto… welcome to my world!!!
China says F**CK you Rothschield! ROFL
China stressed on Thursday that its goal of reducing “carbon intensity” by 40 to 45 percent by 2020, compared to 2005 levels — reducing the carbon dioxide released to generate each yuan of economic activity — is a domestic policy, not to be picked over by foreigners as part of a new international pact.
Negotiators hope to agree on the basics of that pact when they meet in Copenhagen from December 7.
Trust us, was the message of Xie Zhenhua, the Chinese climate policy envoy who gave a news briefing to explain the policy.
“Although this is a domestic voluntary action, it is binding,” said Xie. “As we’ve made this commitment, well, Chinese people stick to their word.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE5AQ2MF20091127
@Y’all
and another thing that is sad and insecure is posting the same old links over and over again with nothing but a childish ‘attitude’ !!!
@Adam …only me mums louda call me danny
Roger Wiegand: $2,960 Gold on the Horizon?
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1259517797.php
The Biggest Problem I have is that there are so many Scandals its un – beliveable you would’nt know where to start RODFL
“As the man in charge of the world’s biggest exchange for companies, banks and hedge funds to trade permits to emit carbon dioxide, Birley is fed up with the environmentalists’ charge that dirty capitalists should not profit from the global effort to tackle climate change.”
Who are these environmentalists that make that challenge? Bravo!
Imagine bringing a Kid into this world.
Watch out for that son, n that, n that, n that ,n that…………………………………………….
@Bonn
Well start at the beginning
- Nero burned his own city……Jezus nailed ……
……
- JFK ……..Watergate………911……..Madoff
….. Climategate
Well maybe better start at the end :-/
Good morning!
An interesting perspective on the Dubai Debacle
Is this a further move to pressure Iran into submission:
http://www.uruknet.com/index.php?p=m60604&hd=&size=1&l=e
@Adam C
The issue is undisputable with the facts in hand. Only by presenting misleading partial information, or information from discredited sources, or (in the case of Douche Monckton) sometimes even obviously manipulated data the appearance of a dispute can be maintained. Even wanting to participate in that process seems to me a self inflicted degradation akin to masochism.
@Mother
What scientific evidence convinced you that human CO2 causes global warming?
Oks People this is a Joke so dont get heavy handed with/on me
As Long as there are 7 Billion trees on Earth we can stop worrying about our Breathing Contributinng to Global Warming RODFL PMSL
I refuse to get into Climate change arguments cause there is no way in my opnion that we cause “climate Change” Iniether have the time nor the drive to find research papers backing that up
But I’d like to crack a Joke or two every now and then
SCIENTISTS at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based.
From: Climate change data dumped (The Sunday Times) November 29, 2009
The world’s source for global temperature record admits it’s lost or destroyed all the original data that would allow a third party to construct a global temperature record. The destruction (or loss) of the data comes at a convenient time for the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in East Anglia – permitting it to snub FoIA requests to see the data. 13th August 2009
From: Global Warming ate my data – We’ve lost the numbers: CRU responds to FOIA requests (The Register) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/cru_missing/
A-ha!
How do we know CO2 is causing warming?
http://skepticalscience.com/How-do-we-know-CO2-is-causing-warming.html
All the action is in the comments.
Conclusion: Climate science is waaaay complicated!
I like this quote:
“…even highly-educated people with technical backgrounds can fail to grasp these concepts intuitively. A study called “All Models are Wrong” (John Sterman, System Dynamics Review, Winter 2002) found that even most MIT grad students couldn’t grasp basic systems thinking concepts like stocks and flows.
I’d argue that, aside from political bias, the inability to do systems thinking is the second biggest driver of climate denial. People like McIntyre and Plimer may be highly educated and skilled at performing calculations, but their brains’ intuitive grasp of systems concepts may be under-developed.
This is why you don’t have to be a technical expert on all the details of climate science to still respond to denier talking points. Most of them aren’t errors of fact so much as errors of logic.”
–
Like Mother Earth said, unless you KNOW the science thoroughly yourself, it might be best to rely on the experts. Of course, the problem is there are two ‘teams’ of experts.
I’ve run up against the limits of my skepticism. Whilst I don’t want to take matters on trust, I know that I don’t have the time to devote to understanding the issue even though all of the links to supposed ‘evidence’ have been provided and I can use them to counter specific points in the Skeptics Handbook: the handbook that has thus far been the best resource (for me) for understanding the full debate and its intricacies.
I can’t keep asking ‘where’s the evidence?’ if when it’s being pointed to I don’t have the time to read and understand it. If I want to bare the responsibilities of skepticism it means I have to bare the responisbilities of science and in this case, I have no hope of catching up to it, nor any reward for doing so. Basically, if I’m not learning anything, then the ‘debate’ is no fun.
Because I won’t be a cheerleader for any ‘team’ without fully understanding what I’m cheering for, I’m not exactly sure how to proceed. This is an interesting position to be in philosophically.
But practically and ethically, the only thing to do is to extricate myself from the science aspect of the debate and instead focus on the positive aspects of technological change, which is something everybody wants and is practical, even if only hopeful.
I haven’t been convinced of the CO2 case, and I haven’t been totally convinced of the case against CO2. There are just too many issues clouding the climate science, but I have to have faith that science – and science alone – will settle the issue, regardless of conclusion.
As for this forum and previous climate discussions, I hope I’ve been a good skeptic and thus further informed the debate by constant challenges to clear thinking and argument by evidence.
From: Climate change data dumped (The Sunday Times) November 29, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
@Mother Earth
I’m happy for you to dispute anything.
Apologies for not responding to the substance of your reply. I’m trying to ease my way out of the climate issue, and because everything is so tangled, whilst I could respond to ‘safe’ points, I think any response would be mistaken as supporting one particular ‘team’ or another.
Thanks
@dan valley
Sorry!
The Bigger and Riskier Monster
by Martin D. Weiss, Ph.D. 11-30-09
But even while they give lip service to protecting you, they stand by passively as derivatives grow explosively.
Derivatives are debts and bets of all shapes and sizes, especially on interest rates, bonds, mortgage-backed securities, and other fixed instruments.
They were at the epicenter of the financial earthquake that shook the world last year. They triggered the demise of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, and many others. And they’re still causing a series of aftershocks around the world, as in Dubai late last week.
So you’d think the authorities would have taken steps to reduce their threat to the U.S. banking system.
Not quite! Despite a brief reduction in derivatives outstanding in last year’s third quarter, U.S. commercial banks now hold a grand total of $203.5 trillion in derivatives, a new all-time high.
What’s worse, there has been no change whatsoever in the stranger-than-fiction facts behind that number — namely that …
..
..
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/the-bigger-and-riskier-monster-5-36650
@Adam C
Awesome link to youtube : here is another good one
YouTube – Rap News: OBAMA wins Nobel War is Peace prize http://bit.ly/2s5JRD
@Adam C
“Climate science is waaaay complicated!” – Agree
“it might be best to rely on the experts” don’t agree cause you gotto keep controlling these so-called experts. Only look at the so-called economical experts like Greenspan, Summers and all.
“I haven’t been convinced of the CO2 case” Strange cause this is one of the aspects which has been debunked by very hard science in the ice sample research agreed upon by all the scientist in this field. CO2 levels rise always after earths temp rising NEVER BEFORE.
Besides CO2 as greenhouse gas is insignificant to the major greenhouse gas clouds. And what about this huge fusion reactor we call the sun? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ8UAMR98y4
Make your own conclusions…
http://seekingalpha.com/article/175607-lithium-ion-batteries-and-gevs-false-gods-for-the-new-millennium?
@ Adam C
Earth Needs More CO2
http://nov55.com/context.html
http://nov55.com/str.html
@Youri Carma
When I say I’m relying on the experts, perhaps it’s more accurate to say, I’m relying on scientists to do honest science.
Other than that, I can’t respond for reasons stated above.
Obviously, I’ll take actions in my daily life, but those actions were long ago aligned to an “eco” “green” “sustainable” point of view.
@ Adam C
Agenda 21 sets out the plan. Most of us aren’t “sustainable”.
Have been wondering about the word “eco”. Hoping Frances Snoot will throw some light on it.
A simpler link than the previous ones:
http://nov55.com/words.html
Carbon dioxide is at a catastrophically low level
All major frauds require absurd starting points. The absurd starting point for the carbon dioxide fraud is that if nature were vulnerable to the miniscule effects by humans, it would have destroyed itself many times over.
There was five times as much CO2 in the air during dinosaur years as now, and twenty times as much before that, because oceans continuously absorb it and tie it up as calcium carbonate and limestone. Humans are slightly correcting the problem. Greenhouse operators often add three times as much CO2 to the air to improve plant growth.
this is just getting silly now ;(
A few cocksmokers just continually spamming the same info and replies has ruined this forum .
Can you please set up a separate comments section for anything regarding climate change .
cheers
Hey Stacey, remember that fake gold story from a week or so ago? looks like this has been figured out before…. what do you think?
here is the fake gold story
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2008-03/how-make-convincing-fake-gold-bars
@Pincho Gordo
Tu Madre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG3-ZE4sb3M
@TJ
Good find and you also have to look at the raw materials which you need for a particular battery type. Are there enough of these raw materials on the globe to feed the billions of batteries needed if everybody is going electric?
The same problem with solar cells. Have to look into this subject more to say anything sane about it. The answers could be disapointing but like said, donnow yet.
The problem with proposing new ideas, which at first glance look very attractive, like with the windmills or electric cars, could after thorough scientifical study, turn out to be very dissapointing for reasons overlooked in the first glance enthousiastic fase.
Since a lot of these ideas are propelled by a huge propaganda machine rather than backed up by fundamental studies and science, nobody seems to care.
@AnythingBut:
The conference should be called Coop-’em-hawgs-in. Cause that is the premise and the outcome of the event in Copenhagen first week of December.
Human race is turning on itself.
@PINCHO GORDO ,..Get serious,..these guys are trying to explain how your whole way of life is going to be forcibly changed, using fraud as an impetus,…and you want to move on,..typical “head in the sand” attitude!
@Adam C
Well I am a “eco” “green” “sustainable” dude myself but as an individual you only can do so much.
What I am trying to say is that the people who control the moneystreams are the big environmental evildoers, the rubber Barons like Rothschild and Rockefellers for instance. The IMF insisted on cutting trees for instance and oil companies pollute as we speak. Because as inividual I can’t change that directly governments have to do more which they don’t. They only try to steel your money under the green umbrella while in the real world bothing has changed. The third world hunger problem is 50 years old and still I see these commercials from organisations pretending to help only if I give them money. That makes me very sick and I don’t buy their BS any longer. Something has to change but not by giving money to the Rothschilds for crap and trade off, it’s a scam.
@anything but green.again
I no longer want to participate in the climate science ‘debate’.
All I can say is I am for a rational world. We must be eternally skeptical no matter what the issue.
Regarding the political aspect of the climate debate (which I’ve left myself open to participate in should I wish to):
I know right from wrong. I’m aware when my actions cause violence to others. I’ve no alignment with those who do violence to others supposedly in my name and “for my own good.”
@PINCHO GORDO
>> Can you please set up a separate comments section for anything regarding climate change
I agree, though issues are now so very entwined and climate has become a ‘markets’, ‘finance’, and ‘scandal’ issue.
Has anyone watched the movie online Oil, Smoke And Mirrors? It’s a discussion of 911, peak oil, empire and geopolitical issues. Features Colin Campbell, Richard Heinberg and a 2 former British and German ministers…
Link to part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gH4dSsTOIY&feature=related
this is funny. Ecomonic analysis as to the current cost of buying all the gifts from the 12 days of chirstmas and what it means regarding the recession/depression we are in:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1346047884&play=1
7 maids-a-milking are “unskilled laborers”. we might all be milking cows soon just to survive.
@AnythingButGreen….again:
You know, the fencing meme is an interesting one. The end result of the new economic trading culture will be a differentiated fencing to replace the individuated fencing inherent in the fractional reserve system. As MotherEarth implied: an arena of in or out depending on one’s cooperative ventures and vocalization. MotherEarth spoke of an anguished ‘outer darkness’.
Unfortunately, men are tearing down the old fences with abandon according to the substantive lies they beat against their chests. Was Hobbes correct that man longs for this last great enslavement?
Here’s to going long whiskey.
Here we go, this could be the start
Japan floats Quantitative Easing Nuclear option
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSTKU10570520091130
I have expected the next phase to be a complete all out fiat debasement war…
Hard assets will rise…
GOT GOLD
or is it 8 maids?
@Youri Carma
I know, I know, but how is ranting in a forum really going to change anything in the real world?
Cap and trade isn’t going to ‘work’ even for those who most want it to. People are completely reliant on the ‘powers above’ to make it work and there is no historical basis on which to suggest that the ‘powers above’ have any ability to deliver. Those hoping for a better cap and trade scheme know they will most likely be disappointed (???) but this is the best available option to them.
The central issue is, how can the people’s voice be heard? How can they force their will (not politicans’), regardless of issue?
Something has gone terribly wrong and we are divided on just one issue. Put aside CO2 for one minute and suddenly we all agree.
The only way to be heard, is to work under a common, broad banner that speaks to real issue such as ‘Starve the beast’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoPFxcbRzE
Some will have different reasons for doing so, but when has that ever not been the case?
It sounds tacky but we need to unite. It’s KarmaBanque time by any tactic necessary.
‘The pro-centralization team is a global network. They are a “we” and they have a plan. The pro-decentralization team is not networked globally, is not a “we,” and doesn’t even have a map of this world, let alone a plan. — I always tell people not to worry whether there is a conspiracy because if you are not in one, you need to start one. The key to who is in your circle is whom do you trust. There are four fundamental principles of a sound, healthy economy: #1. Sound currency #2. Transparency of shared, i.e., public, money and privacy of individual money #3. Equity financing instead of debt. Debt equals war and equity equals peace #4. Vote with your money. Do not feed the people who are killing you or otherwise you will die. — …when you align financial stuff with people’s basic dreams and hopes, society gets smarter and smarter and smarter.’
The Tapeworm Economy (Catherine Austin Fitts)
http://www.karavans.com/tapeworm.html
Let’s get smarter.
@Snoots…this is my point the MMGW issue is the new religion that people will kill for cause we all know we need to be told what to do…and our betters are pushing all the right buttons now that most of us have abandonded current religious affiliations (sadly too late ).
@AnythingButClimateChangeDenier:
Yes. Agenda 21 does set the impetus for the new world in which we will all awaken to find ourselves. Think the Bronx. But you’re there. The powers behind Copenhagen do not seem overly concerned about pollution but only about carbon emissions.
Every aspect of our lives is set to become neutered through the Agenda 21 protocol. There’s even a schedule.
In the days of slavery, the most hated members of any plantation were the overseers. It seems to me that the press now has become the viable alternative to the overseer of plantation days, whipping those who do not adhere to the dawn-to-dusk task at hand: a complete breakdown of our societal structuring and a transfer of property rights and assets into the grasp of the elite interest.
One must think carefully and independently to avoid the stacked-sustainable-hell planners. Every aspect of the human spirit is being called forth by the currency cartel: the greedy, the sadistically inclined, the controller, the fearful, the hateful.
Using the idea of reform of the old system the old system is being completely obliterated. That is the purpose behind the sdr-manipulations.
Man stands or man falls dependent on the merits of each individual, not mankind as a whole. Of what substance is man?
@DanValley:
I see you have existed your bat chamber? Sleeping upside down is good: provides oxygen for the mental processes!
@DanValley:
That was a joke. meant exited…I forgive you for calling me a religitard. Had to look it up, though. Does that word come up in social discourse, or only an internet epithet?
Sorry, I don’t mean to be closed to others opinions or ideas. I only meant to engage discussion. I’ve learned heaps here.
@Snoots …” Does that word come up in social discourse, or only an internet epithet? ”
Why it comes in all flavors….but the 2 most popular seem to be religitard..(and no its not used by ballerinas)..and repulitards….come to think of it the two most often are one and the same.
@DanValley:
I think you meant republitards.
And the religitard snowball probably knocked my noggin for good!
Jim Rickards says dubai is being squeezed by Abu Dabi because Dubai is friendly to Iran. So when will we find out that there is US stink all over this?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1346069752&play=1
Erin Burnet reports the same:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1346032552&play=1
“Abu Dabi will take control of Dubai. US demands cut of Dubai ties to Iran”
Hi from the UK.
As trillions seem to be thrown around like confetti nowadays, you know, everybody’s doing it… I thought I’d try my hand at it.
OK. If my math on this is entirely wrong let me know immediately, and yes there will be many aspects I will have failed to mention in this post.
If the world were to invest $200 Trillion in wind farms.
On average a single turbine can yield 2 Megawatts and costs about $2 Million.
Therefore = 100,000,000 Mega Watts of potential energy yield.
That’s = 100,000,000,000,000 Watts of power
Or 100 Terra Watts
The world consumes 15 Terawatts of total energy. Oil, gas, nuclear… hamster wheels… the lot.
15,000,000,000,000 Watts
Thus $200Trillion investment gives the world over 6.6 times the energy it actually requires. Way too much energy for our current needs, we’d have electricity coming out our ears and most likely the world population’s hair would be stood on end.
(For the physicists amongst you i used the phenomena of static electricity under poetic licence)
So let’s trim it down a bit to avoid the potential of electrocuting the populace of the world.
$200 Trillion divided by 6 (let’s say) = $33 Trillion for the cost of manufacture of the turbines to meet the worlds energy needs currently.
Add on another $25 Trillion for labour / installation.
You’ve only spent $58 trillion (less than the worlds GDP) and solved the world’s forthcoming energy crisis and employed at least a billion worldwide doing something very useful for mankind.
Of course there would be many, many more trillions of investment for the infrastructure to rely entirely on electricity.
How many trillions have been wasted on non productive endeavours such as war and has been spent and will be will be spent worldwide to try to prop up the failing economies and deal with the rising costs of oil in the forthcoming energy crisis?
Just a quick thought.
I’m onboard with what I read over at zerohedge. I think this whole Dubai thing was a scam so that Bullion banks could cover some of their shorts at a lower spot price, buy some more Gold at discount and give some idiot degenerates in Dubai a cut of the action. i could repeat the famous story of Nathan Rothschild on the Day of the battle of Waterloo but I won’t bore people and most know of it.
Should I wait or buy silver?… that is the question!
@buddhabob
I read Zero Hedge but don’t believe a word of it. Have you ever been to Do Buy? There’s no crisis with the locals because they have tons of gold. No local fools fell for the scams and they are friends of Iran.
Invest in potatoes…or Freedom Fries if you like
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/17/how-to-make-fake-gol.html