“One e-mail that skeptics have been citing often since the messages were posted online is from Jones. He says: “I’ve just completed Mike’s (Mann) trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (from 1981 onward) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.”
Jones was referring to tree ring data that indicated temperatures after the 1950s weren’t as warm as scientists had determined.
The “trick” that Jones said he was borrowing from Mann was to add the real temperatures, not what the tree rings showed. And the decline he talked of hiding was not in real temperatures, but in the tree ring data which was misleading, Mann explained.”"
So, he used the “real data” from one source and substituted it into another source that he was also using to get the real data. How convenient! This isn’t to mention that he hid his original records for years, and that the CRU just a few months ago threw out a bunch of original data that it used to calculate the “real temperature.” So, now we no longer have the source of their interpretations, just their interpretations, and we’re supposed to take that as fact!
Is this the best coverage you are going to give this story? A story by a totally discredited journalist who’s obviously in bed with the very people he is supposedly covering in this story.
Come on Max and Staci you guys are better than that. I know you guys aren’t stupid but as far as I can see anybody who has read those emails can come to only one conclusion: the entire theory of man made global warming has taken a hit thru the heart with a cruise missile.
Your left leaning bias is really shining thru here. If you haven’t read them yet Max and Stacy please take some time to do so. This issue is not going to go away. What has happened so far is only the proverbial crack in the dam
Anglo-Saxon capitalism seems far more influenced by the Hobbsian kind of philosophy behind things like Porter’s strategies of competition, where by seizing control over the entire production chain is seen as a key tactic. That kind of ethic seems to have been spread far and wide with MBAs and consultancies.
Perhaps in Germany it’s been tempered by the post-war social democratic and christian democratic ethics, at least until the continentals started imitating the anglo-saxons with neo-liberal reforms.
I wouldn’t eulogise either social democrats or christian democrats, but I do think there may be grounds for political alliance between productive capital (on the right) and labour (on the left) to curtail the power of unproductive finance capital, which has done so much to undermine both interests.
Why Bother there are skeptics the are now promoting people increase their CO2 footprints. Add more CO2 and the presto the problem just goes away. Just like our debt problems I guess, spend take on more debt and presto problem goes away.
Oh wait I get now, we don’t live in a causal world that must be it. NOW I GET IT.
Indeed, newsrooms around the world have started to realize they were cast in the role of “useful idiots” by the global warming movement. Once that realization dawned, the possibility of full trust being restored receded.
BTW .. it was in those days that I discovered that bankers love Gold.
By holding a physical gold deposit at a bank, they will gladly let you overdraw way above the market price of one’s gold deposit … to earn loads of interest of course.
But, for a small company that sometimes needs to overdraw for short periods to finance orders, it is very useful .
In the German industry, I was “rescued” twice by my “big industry” customers … that sent me on one occasion big cheque “in advance” of the goods being delivered … at a time when the banks “overdraft” limit had been reached. In one case, I had talked to the customer before-hand ( his payment-date was a few weeks away ), he had no problem sending me a six-figure cheque. In the other case, I got a surprise big 6-figure cheque in the post, even before the goods were delivered.
i.e. your friends are NOT the banks, but your partners in the industry !
The most important “feature” of the German system IMO is that fact that Companies lay great value on “paying on time” !
Often , on the invoice, one states payment terms as “Skonto”.
e.g.
7 days = 3% Skonto ( discount )
21 days = 2 % Skonto
30 days = final date ( no discount )
It is ( or was ) common practice that big German companies will pay VERY quickly to get the discount .
e.g. 3% of 250,000 = 7,500
The effect is that money flows very quickly through the economy, and all business partners are happy and can do well !
PS:
I had business friends in the UK that told me 90-days was normal !
Sheesh .. that’s when I decided that I’d NEVER do business with a UK Company !
In fact, I had a close friend that had a small insurance Company of 20 people in London ( Insurance Underwriter ) … he even insured that satellite they lost in the early 80′s !
He had to close his company because his customers had outstanding monies owed to him of ca. 2 Mio. GBP.
He told me that it was common practice that bigger Cos. would BK their suppliers to avoid paying at all !
I was amazed … and said ” you are joking ” !
But no … in those days, a Ltd. could get away with murder it seems !
I’d believe that. My first job after college was at a new magazine. The owner explained to me once how his after his successful first issue, the bank recalled it’s loan to try and seize the company (and probably his home too). He had to seek out another bank immediately and was lucky to hold onto his own business.
They’re all crooks IMO … my point was about “when these people get too powerful, their power to become destructive increases”
In the German grape-vine , one hears often about how Banks – even small banks – can bankrupt one of their customers to favour another , who wants to buy them out !
No doubt, some “black” money often exchanges hands under such circumstances !
It even happened to me once / in the 80′s … my (business) bank manager approached me saying there was a someone I should meet !!!
It turned out , the guy I should meet wanted to buy my company ( i.e. absorb it into his Company ). He had just bought my competitor and wanted to monopolize the market by buying my company as well. We all banked at the same name !
I refused .. and 2 years later, the BigMoney guy liquidated that new Company !
MY poor competitor was shocked !
AP has so discredited itself lately even if they read the email I don’t consider them a credible source. Still good to hear Max hasn’t caught the AJ fever..
Apparently you are more liable to be punched in the face when you try to help and fail, then when you try to destroy like the WS bankers that somehow never get mugged..
You never break the law when you write it. You are the law. The only way is to use from time to time the guillotine. So Brownie wants a snap election ? It will be a snap beheading.
@Phil /Germany – it’s a bit pot-kettle-black for asset stripper Guy Hands to accuse Citi of trying to break the company he was no doubt hoping to break with debt
… Terra Firma, which is run by Guy Hands, is also accusing the American bank of trying to drive EMI into bankruptcy so it can bring about a long-expected merger with rival Warner Music …
Just normal practice these days … Banksters breaking the law / no legal accountability / no arrests .
Powerful US “paper” corporations should be outlawed IMO.
i.e. ALL those corporations that DO NOT ACTUALLY PRODUCE A REAL PRODUCT should be dismantled, disbanded and – where appropriate – their BODs sent to jail indefinitely.
I think that would draw a perfect line between the “producers” and the “parasites” !
@Stacey
Giviny your stances in Climate mmmmhhh change, that post honors you!
Look at this bullshit from AP:
“One e-mail that skeptics have been citing often since the messages were posted online is from Jones. He says: “I’ve just completed Mike’s (Mann) trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (from 1981 onward) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.”
Jones was referring to tree ring data that indicated temperatures after the 1950s weren’t as warm as scientists had determined.
The “trick” that Jones said he was borrowing from Mann was to add the real temperatures, not what the tree rings showed. And the decline he talked of hiding was not in real temperatures, but in the tree ring data which was misleading, Mann explained.”"
So, he used the “real data” from one source and substituted it into another source that he was also using to get the real data. How convenient! This isn’t to mention that he hid his original records for years, and that the CRU just a few months ago threw out a bunch of original data that it used to calculate the “real temperature.” So, now we no longer have the source of their interpretations, just their interpretations, and we’re supposed to take that as fact!
Absurd.
Re: AP IMPACT
Paragraph 1: An “exhaustive review by Associated Press” doesn’t support that global warming is faked…?
WHAT?
Since when is the Associated Press capable of reviewing scientific work?
Is it me who must say that this could only be done by climatologists?
Is this the best coverage you are going to give this story? A story by a totally discredited journalist who’s obviously in bed with the very people he is supposedly covering in this story.
Come on Max and Staci you guys are better than that. I know you guys aren’t stupid but as far as I can see anybody who has read those emails can come to only one conclusion: the entire theory of man made global warming has taken a hit thru the heart with a cruise missile.
Your left leaning bias is really shining thru here. If you haven’t read them yet Max and Stacy please take some time to do so. This issue is not going to go away. What has happened so far is only the proverbial crack in the dam
Photosynthesis:
Carbon dioxide + water + sunlight = sugar + oxygen
CO2 going up would be a good thing, since trees/plants would produce more fruits/berries and more OXYGEN!!
@ Phil,
Anglo-Saxon capitalism seems far more influenced by the Hobbsian kind of philosophy behind things like Porter’s strategies of competition, where by seizing control over the entire production chain is seen as a key tactic. That kind of ethic seems to have been spread far and wide with MBAs and consultancies.
Perhaps in Germany it’s been tempered by the post-war social democratic and christian democratic ethics, at least until the continentals started imitating the anglo-saxons with neo-liberal reforms.
I wouldn’t eulogise either social democrats or christian democrats, but I do think there may be grounds for political alliance between productive capital (on the right) and labour (on the left) to curtail the power of unproductive finance capital, which has done so much to undermine both interests.
Why Bother there are skeptics the are now promoting people increase their CO2 footprints. Add more CO2 and the presto the problem just goes away. Just like our debt problems I guess, spend take on more debt and presto problem goes away.
Oh wait I get now, we don’t live in a causal world that must be it. NOW I GET IT.
Can anyone point me to one single piece of observational scientific evidence that man made co2 is affecting global temperatures?
A few newsrooms still have not accepted this yet
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/12/key-global-warming-believer-surrenders-climategate-catastrophic.html
Indeed, newsrooms around the world have started to realize they were cast in the role of “useful idiots” by the global warming movement. Once that realization dawned, the possibility of full trust being restored receded.
The AP story is mostly about the CRU emails.
The emails are merely pointers to the real story – the manipulated data.
Also, if you’ve been following the Swine Flu scam, if you like to ‘follow the money’, here’s where it ends – http://bit.ly/5nrb8E
AP has so discredited itself lately even if they read the email I don’t consider them a credible source.
Nicely put!
exhaustive review by The Associated Press
Oh. That’s something to take confidence in , right?
@harry_w … yes, common practice it seems .
BTW .. it was in those days that I discovered that bankers love Gold.
By holding a physical gold deposit at a bank, they will gladly let you overdraw way above the market price of one’s gold deposit … to earn loads of interest of course.
But, for a small company that sometimes needs to overdraw for short periods to finance orders, it is very useful .
In the German industry, I was “rescued” twice by my “big industry” customers … that sent me on one occasion big cheque “in advance” of the goods being delivered … at a time when the banks “overdraft” limit had been reached. In one case, I had talked to the customer before-hand ( his payment-date was a few weeks away ), he had no problem sending me a six-figure cheque. In the other case, I got a surprise big 6-figure cheque in the post, even before the goods were delivered.
i.e. your friends are NOT the banks, but your partners in the industry !
The most important “feature” of the German system IMO is that fact that Companies lay great value on “paying on time” !
Often , on the invoice, one states payment terms as “Skonto”.
e.g.
7 days = 3% Skonto ( discount )
21 days = 2 % Skonto
30 days = final date ( no discount )
It is ( or was ) common practice that big German companies will pay VERY quickly to get the discount .
e.g. 3% of 250,000 = 7,500
The effect is that money flows very quickly through the economy, and all business partners are happy and can do well !
PS:
I had business friends in the UK that told me 90-days was normal !
Sheesh .. that’s when I decided that I’d NEVER do business with a UK Company !
In fact, I had a close friend that had a small insurance Company of 20 people in London ( Insurance Underwriter ) … he even insured that satellite they lost in the early 80′s !
He had to close his company because his customers had outstanding monies owed to him of ca. 2 Mio. GBP.
He told me that it was common practice that bigger Cos. would BK their suppliers to avoid paying at all !
I was amazed … and said ” you are joking ” !
But no … in those days, a Ltd. could get away with murder it seems !
has some IM
@ Phil,
I’d believe that. My first job after college was at a new magazine. The owner explained to me once how his after his successful first issue, the bank recalled it’s loan to try and seize the company (and probably his home too). He had to seek out another bank immediately and was lucky to hold onto his own business.
http://www.infowars.com/enviroment-eugenics-quotes/
@Stacy .. I agree on EMI
They’re all crooks IMO … my point was about “when these people get too powerful, their power to become destructive increases”
In the German grape-vine , one hears often about how Banks – even small banks – can bankrupt one of their customers to favour another , who wants to buy them out !
No doubt, some “black” money often exchanges hands under such circumstances !
It even happened to me once / in the 80′s … my (business) bank manager approached me saying there was a someone I should meet !!!
It turned out , the guy I should meet wanted to buy my company ( i.e. absorb it into his Company ). He had just bought my competitor and wanted to monopolize the market by buying my company as well. We all banked at the same name !
I refused .. and 2 years later, the BigMoney guy liquidated that new Company !
MY poor competitor was shocked !
EMI: perhaps it is relevant to post this link: Even de companies themselves copied illegaly…
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/735096–geist-record-industry-faces-liability-over-infringement
AP has so discredited itself lately even if they read the email I don’t consider them a credible source. Still good to hear Max hasn’t caught the AJ fever..
Apparently you are more liable to be punched in the face when you try to help and fail, then when you try to destroy like the WS bankers that somehow never get mugged..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/default.stm
Re: AP IMPACT story
No mention of the Medieval Warm Period. Predictable.
How does a carbon-based global warming advocate explain the Medieval Warm Period?
I won’t hold my breath on this one.
You never break the law when you write it. You are the law. The only way is to use from time to time the guillotine. So Brownie wants a snap election ? It will be a snap beheading.
@Phil /Germany – it’s a bit pot-kettle-black for asset stripper Guy Hands to accuse Citi of trying to break the company he was no doubt hoping to break with debt
@Guy Hands: Citi trying to break EMI
… Terra Firma, which is run by Guy Hands, is also accusing the American bank of trying to drive EMI into bankruptcy so it can bring about a long-expected merger with rival Warner Music …
Just normal practice these days … Banksters breaking the law / no legal accountability / no arrests .
Powerful US “paper” corporations should be outlawed IMO.
i.e. ALL those corporations that DO NOT ACTUALLY PRODUCE A REAL PRODUCT should be dismantled, disbanded and – where appropriate – their BODs sent to jail indefinitely.
I think that would draw a perfect line between the “producers” and the “parasites” !
OK, I let it hang at 0 until I read all of the articles, so . . . 1st.