Stacy Summary: Guest is Gail Tverberg who writes as Gail The Actuary on The Oil Drum. (Will post a higher res version when that is available tomorrow).
Tags: gail tverberg · max keiser · On the Edge · stacy herbert135 Comments
December 25th, 2009 by
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game theory for activists. get hedge funds to attack companies for you.
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Max explains Wall St.'s financial terrorism to radio listeners in Moscow
@underfundedmentalist, I’ll trade you one garden in a can and Park Place for a copy of Ponerology and B & O Railroad.
@Stacy … Oil
Yet again, German Phoenix TV ( “Wem gehört das Meer?” = Who owns the oceans ) showed an excellent Doc. on Oil Discovery and what is going on , that is NOT reported on MSM.
I knew about this already, bt the TV Doc. condensed all the WW discovery work currently going on … for Deep Sea Oil !
Not many people realize that nearly 50% of the sea-bottom area of all Oceans have already been mapped out for oil extraction. A Shocking picture .., when you see the areas over-laid on the World map !
New robot technologies for extracting oil 3000-5000 meters under the surface are already big business and in operation already.
The conventional oil-rigs will disappear and all you’ll see are tanking-station ships holding positions via GPS with e.g. 50 massive tubes that reach 5000 meters to the sea bottom, where they join more tanking-stations that are spread like spider webs all over the sea bed.
The sea-bed tanking stations are as big as 3-story houses !!
In particular, Angola is the biggest extraction area right now. The US Military and the corrupt Government are very busy there !
Damn good Doc. .. pity there is an English Link !
http://www.phoenix.de/content/phoenix/die_sendungen/wem_gehoert_das_meer_/232375?datum=2009-12-26
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The search for always new and ever larger raw material deposits achieved a new area: the deep sea – the largest and to few investigated habitat of the earth. Long time was considered the deep sea as dead desert.
Today however researchers in thousands meters discover depth landscapes of breath-taking beauty, uncounted new organisms and raw materials in rauen quantities.
Deep sea promotion of TOTAL before the coast of Angola (source: Phoenix WDR) And the documentation turned thorough investigated in many countries accompanies for the first time the world-wide most important projects, which want to exploit the treasures of the bottom of the sea.
Gold fever in the deep sea before New Zealand are German, researchers of New Zealand and American in the search for valuable minerals. With the most modern dipping robot of the world they explore an area of full hot sources, from which gold, copper and other metals gush – the ore mines of the future.
Sea biologist warn however that the building of seamounts could bring the entire ocean in danger, with unforseeable consequences for the food chain and the world climate.
The authoress Sarah Zierul connects impressive photographs on high lake with rare underwater pictures, lets researchers and company heads likewise to word come like experts in international law and biologists. Their film shows for the first time: Gold fever in the deep sea began and is an adventure with uncertain exit.
A film of Sarah Zierul
…
let’s keep in mind that one of the motivations for GS to manipulate prices is that it’s fun. You get a real sense of power when you move the price of a stock or a commodity 20, 30, 40%.
I can’t understand why the public doesn’t do the same thing to stocks when they want to ‘send a message.’
It would be easy with stocks like Coke or Starbucks.
Just for the fun of it. But activists are very, very serious and they think that the power elite are evil and plotting against them when the reality is that the folks in power are just having fun.
The discussion Paulson had to decide on the 700 bn. bailout with his subordinates lasted about 10 minutes and they picked that number because they thought they could ‘sell it.’ There was no grand plot or conspiracy. These guys are just bozos who would rather be getting some steam at the NYAC than screwing around with actual ‘work.’
I think the biggest mistake activists make is taking these guys too seriously. Why not take down a stock like coke to zero just for the fun of it. Activists are so droopy and dull.
@ Dan S
Pleasure to discuss ‘it’ with someone whom has put in some emphatic thinking. “Large organizations are lead by psychopaths who treat our evolution as something to be gamed, and without our survival depending on the foreign environments we take from, they are gamed too.”
This is the crux of our situation, we have let small groups of ‘expert thinkers’ do all the anaylisis for us. If we can not bring sense back to the commons, we shall lose our common sense
PS@Oil / “Wem gehört das Meer” ( Deepwave )
Crazy, I can only find references to the film in German, Polish, Russia and other languages , but hardly a single English language review.
http://www.online-artikel.de/article/wem-gehoert-das-meer-bester-natur-und-umweltfilm-30395-1.html
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(On-line Artikel.de) – which ” documentation; Whom the sea belongs – to race around the last Rohstoffe” the producer Sarah Zierul on the Atlantis of this year nature and environmental film celebration were distinguished as the best film. The prize was assigned for the second time and is endowed with 5.000 €. In the Caligari film stage of Wiesbaden cultural and Umweltdezernentin Rita Thies presented the price to Sarah Zierul. “ Succeeds carrying the authoress in descriptive and packing way the spectators forward on a journey into the past and into the future of our world. …
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Max, unfortunately many people don’t believe something is possible until they see it happen. It reminds me of sports in school. I’d fight to the very end no matter the score. Others would give up when it looked bad and guarantee the loss. People don’t want to sacrifice without a guarantee of success. Of course that isn’t sacrifice. It’s purchase.
Many charities attract “activists” to do just that. Purchase good feelings. No learning or efforts without certainty of outcome required.
I don’t share the view that the likes of Paulson are just having fun because I don’t believe that is the “they”. I think Paulson and such are servants of bona fide psychopaths. They all reek of fearful servitude and the fun is part of the pay.
I can’t believe he apologized to the Congressbitch. She should be taken out and shot together with the vast majority of government personnel.
When the majority of the population has become disenfranchised to the point of Les Miserables, the search for the guilty will ensue. The names that will be in the headlines and who will be the ultimate fall guys will look like the first book of the Old Testament, Rosenbaum (AKA Rand), Greenspan, Rubin, Dimon, Blankfein, etc.
@Phil
well maybe Einstein is right when he warned the public about the possibility of a pool shift. That would turn the world upside down!
@henk .. Pole Shift
I remember them in the 1980′s predicting this pole shift by 2015 !
40 miles/year = 400 in 10 years …. that’s a massive shift.
Hope the birds find their way to the warmer countries in winter !
;-(
Is war necessary for progress? Pt2
Short 5 minutes …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUfYGl40KqE&feature=sub
Thank you!
o not really the free market but state spending brought about the internet age?
apparently communisim won, just not in the country you were told!
oh, and not by those who actually invested in it
@Phil
The position taken is complete nonsense. Nasa and DOE have developed breaktrough innovations. True defence and warfare are great motivators, but to point to a few and say ‘allow things to develope without the cruel test of the market’ is utter crap if I may say so. The ‘cruel test of the market’ is french for ‘breaking into the bank controlled market’. Making war something one could contemplate from an economic perspective is quite an achievement. Only psychopats talk about the merits of mass manslaughter.
they are eatin their own as we speak,
sun valley without power,
http://www.dailysunnews.com/archives/story.aspx/17355/power-outage-closes-three-sunnyside-schools
pay to play as it were
sunvalley is a company town
sinclair oil
I’ve hated Coca Cola since I was a teen. Bizarrely I relented and started drinking it about 2 or 3 years ago after being on my own sort of solo boycott. IE boycott it so long as it’s a tooth-decaying drug in a can that advertises anything that helps sell it, which incidentally is nothing that it actually is. (yeah, I know that’s not what is meant by a boycott, but I was holding out!)
So what would be the best way to attack the brand? Some sort of viral video would be my guess. If only making videos cost pennies a piece and was addictive.
I seem to recall a stat from an Annual report years ago that Coca Cola had sold 14.7 billion cases the prior year. At 42 grams/can and 12 cans a case, that’d be 16.3 billion pounds of sugars drank. Sadly, that looks about ballpark right. What would that much sugar look like? How many cavities is that? Do dentists buy Coca Cola shares? Nah. They’re already getting dividends.
@theunderfundedmentalist, The company folks are calling it “a blessing in disguise”. They make it sound so good it makes me want my power to go out.
http://blog.sunvalley.com/2009/12/christmas-blackout-2009/
@ Max…
I love that you make us laugh at this stuff. If we were given the medicine of this current reality bitter…we would be crying most of the time. Stay Strong!
Holip
@ Mother Earth…
Isn’t it amazing that instead of fixing this system to benefit the masses of the earth’s inhabitants, the only solution of the ruling class elites of this earth is to find a way to destroy the people. Priceless.
And people have a nerve to laugh at the Venus Project/Zeitgeist movement.
@phil,
well nature will adapt.
@Daniel S
The best way to attack a name brand ? You should ask that question to the japaneese yakuza. It’s one of their specialty. Big japaneese corporations and probably Coco Cola pay up. Not very complicated specially with food stuff. Get the point ?
@ MaxKeiser,
I largely agree, though what someone someone like Paulson or Fuld choose to do, just for kicks, probably serves a slightly more power-oriented, even sadistic, sense of fun compared to others.
Maybe it’s a ‘we threatened them with marshal law!!! lolz’ kind of thing, but I agree, to really know a social or political movement, check out the after-party.
Anyway, you related power to fun, and for many it is I suppose. At the same time, most of those activists you’re criticising would talk in terms of ‘empowerment’, and maybe that’s a difference.
If reality tv scandals can motivate more complaints and ‘virtual’ activism by phone/text/web/and social media than anything else shown in UK media, … then I suppose it’s only the means to engage with the same emotional commitment to taking a similarly modest financial stance against a corporation that might offend them.
That audience have their own sense of fun too, and more than a little glee if the believe they’re getting their point across by uniting behind a cause. But half of them aren’t old enough to trade.
)
I think karmabanque is good as far as it goes, but to reach a critical mass it requires accessibility to the financial transaction within the bounds of financial services law (where does the money change hands), something easily executed that doesn’t potentially open up campaigners to being squeezed themselves, or passing over control to some caste of ‘fund-managers’.
How might karma-banking deal with an induced *rally* in bank or war stocks — was I the only person on 9/12 to consider how a Merchants of Death Fund might perform?
Anyway, you can short GS to death, but it’ll likely be yours before theirs. So go long kick-backs, based on some Corruption Index? Identifying targets ripe for handover to the shorts for boycott, perhaps funding the campaigns seeking to turn their momentum?
HarryW and MaxKeiser.com:
What’s fun is pretending agency when there is none. It’s a side-bender laugh a minute.
Why do you both ignore the most pertinent information on finance in the last year?
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-banks-capital-relief-may-be-short-lived-2009-12-15?reflink=MW_news_stmp
Fun and games with the deluded public, perhaps.
Paulson chose as clost to 1T as he could seeing as it is a line of credit and not a lump sum. The choice was to sell the American public to the same banking interests that have been served by the public prior to the collapse of the present international financial system.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-basel-capital-rules-delayed-10-years-report-2009-12-15?reflink=MW_news_stmp
Fun is playing with the mouse before it dies: it dies from the play. So one can’t claim conspiratorial agency as much as contempt, right?
“In other words, différe/ance is one of those instances in which the order where speech expresses or manifests instantly and immediately—without delay, without confusion, without detachment (no remove)—self-present meaning or truth (as discerned by reason) is disrupted. What more, it is writing—supposedly but its derivative—that performs the function that speech is unable to. What was thus thought to be secondary—supposedly alien, lifeless, late; mere inscription, mere substitute, but supplementary—is revealed to have the primary function in the system—on which relies its very working.”
http://massthink.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/derridas-differance/
Function of life: that’s the question. Perhaps the mouse will have the last laugh?
A Nation of Laws….piffle
We are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to vote change.
The list of known criminals that control key spots in American governance continues to grow.
Rahmn Emanuel now joins the ranks of Geithner Paulson and the Fed boys.
A high society rouges gallery y’all.
They are not going to prosecute themselves.
WE are going to have to go “get’em” ourselves and soon or else the coming evisceration of the middle class will get ugly.
Harry Markopolos is my hero…at least he tried.
With a clarity that is spoken outrage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDfgnfIWy8U&feature=fvw
What has happened since this “hearing”
Let’s Get’em.
@ frances,
The Basel accords are not ignored, I’ve discussed them with you at length, but they aren’t directly relevant to every discussion.
Max is talking about extending the agency of activists; creating the means to enable people to act against corporations that offend them, if they wish to.
I’m wondering how that karmabanque mechanism might be made directly accessible, in order to tap into a potential mass market/movement for ‘virtual’ activism (even commiting capital to that) and to backing that with real life boycotts or campaigning.
I suspect access to the financial transaction and control over funds raised would have to be more direct. Maybe less reliant on others (like hedge funds seeking to capitalise on a boycott) and avoid creating a caste of fund managers; because surely after a short-attack, hedge funds would be just as happy to rake profits in on subsequent movement in the other direction.
@HarryW:
You discussed nothing at length with me: you talked down to me from a presumption indicative of your standing within the hiearchal structure which you assume may be controlled for your benefit.
You ignore the movement of the elite powerful to create a new international financial system with an inherent disregard for national sovereign choice in deference to an International Clearing Union as proscribed by Bretton Woods. Ignoring this post-industrial thrust with a view to reform the current moribund system is ill-advised and naive.
One might fly an ensign as a pirate for the crown interest, for the movement you foment is surely not ‘grassroots’ but plays directly into the hands of those who find it fun to watch and perhaps even bet on cock fights.
@Andrew,
Bartlett might want to check himself into straw man anon.
Just to clear his head
@bonn
Reflections And Warnings – An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ
is the best – aaron russo is so obviously not full of shit
also, i’d love to see your list
Get Bob Chapman on!!!!! No news from this lady. ZZZZZZZZZZZ
@Max
i agree that monetizing dissent is probably the only way out.
whether they are plotting or just having fun or both, these thieves are seriously mentally ill control freaks
@Max
i still think that someone put all this power in these bozos hands
I’m having a hard time laughing at GS or wall street and their machinations. When I see these bastards getting beaten by an angry mob or going to prison and doing real time, then I will laugh.
There’s too much pain out there in the real world and economy to laugh.
Now, taking it as an observer, stepping back emotionally is a good idea. In one of the last interviews given by George Carlin, who was very astute as to what has been going on for YEARS, said that was the only way to stay sane. To step back and watch the parade of clowns, assholes, thieves and criminals, politicians as a performance……I sure wish he was still around. Boy, he could do a rant like nobody else.
So, Max that may be where you are going here.
These political types are also murderers and assassins, that is the hardes part to take.
@Anthony Novak:
“…..reads like the first books of the old Testament” is, so DAMN FUNNY AND TRUE!
@Max
Wo, dude. Hell of a fine rant and fine Xmas present for us minions out in Bizarro World.
All the best to everyone.
I think MAx, the first video comment is not appropriate. While the anchor was correct in his views, he did not let the congresswoman speak. That is not the way you treat anyone in democracy. He should have heard her out and pricked holes in her view – like Rachael Maddows did the other day.