Stacy Summary: H/t @maxkeiser. What say you on Keynesian economics?
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OH!!!! So we have actually been practicing Keynesian Economics all this time for the last 30+ years. Guess I have been duped yet again. I have been thinking the world is flat and that we have been practicing Regannomic, supply side, trickle down economics all this time. And lets not forget free-trade and deregulation. And now your saying this has been Keynesian Economics all this time. WOW!!. Now I am really confused. So when a government such as Japan for example subsidizes the development and production of the Lexus, and that Lexus becomes a success and a major export that helps the Japanese economy to proper, what is that called now? My text books referred to that as Mercantilism and now your saying it is not.
The problem is neo-liberal economics and it’s associated corruption/fraud.
If the people at the top are allowed to steal everything, Keynesian as well as non-Keynsian policies will all fail.
Our economy is like a bathtub with many holes in the bottom, it’s silly to discuss which soap would be best to wash ourselves with when all the water is quickly leaking out the bottom.
And of course we have Geithner and Summers labeling the holes in the bottom of the tub as “innovations” which need to be protected.
@chArles
Actually…
Personal Autonomy and Technocracy can work together…
Under a proper technocracy, there is little need to maintain 95% employment (maybe not even 50%)…
So what are people going to do with their FREE-TIME ???
Whatever they want, so long as it doesn’t cause a murder, right?
Maybe I am trying to meld Anarchy with Technocracy ???
Have you heard of the Political Compass?
You CAN have Anarcho-Capitalists…
I think the Anarchist definition is what hangs people up…
Just like the definition of INFLATION…
I fail to see what you mean by technology grinding to a halt under such a scenario…
but considering this is quickly becoming an old thread,
like day-old bread,
I guess we’ll have to take that debate up later…
down the road…
Maybe in the FORUM (which is not utilized enough by the denizens of this E-Hole)
http://maxkeiser.ning.com/forum/categories/general-discussion/listForCategory
All U.S. anti-Keynesians still seem to LOOOVE military spending. All Friedmanites just SWOON over military spending. Can’t get rid of the F-22. Why not? Because “my district will lose JOBS.”
But that IS Keynesian, you dumbfuck Friedmanites.
@Giuseppe Bagodonutti
don’t want to classify anyone….hope you didn’t take my little poke as an affront…just one of my pet peeves of the disintegration of political concepts….nothing is more sad than people flinging words around when they have no understanding what they entail…that was why I referenced Mitt Romney Neo Monarchist….John Stewart did a whole rift on that last night
seems from your interests that you want to maximize personal autonomy while continuing greater expansion of technology….those goals seem to be at odds…technology can only advance via a concerted social engagement between individual…if one holds to tightly to personal autonomy (i.e. I I have a good idea about fire…its mine all mine and you have to protect my property rights to this idea) then technology has a tendency to grind to a halt
my ideology demands greatest personal autonomy while minimizing inequality…which also suffers a similar flaw…. my ideology has not been successful at maximizing personal autonomy while producing a large industrial society that is needed to minimize the material inequality.
@chArles
I was talking out of my ASS!!!!
Glad to see someone got suckered into the joke…
Seriously though… I am a fan of Steve Keen’s work (I like the dynamic theory)
I also am fond of the writings of Hazlitt, Hayek, and Garrison… I’ve been trying to plug through von Mises’ Human Action but that’s a heavy read… And it will probably take me the rest of the year to properly digest it…
HOWEVER, I do have Libertarian/Anarchist tendencies…
Ideally, I want to see society develop into a Technocracy…
So knowing that, how would you classify me?
(other than CRAZY)
@chArles,
Thanks for clarifying
I consider the Fabian Socialist movement as tribal elitism, promising a socialist utopia but really just another mechanism to rape the population of freedom and fruits of their labour. Keynes, as well as many other factors, contributed to the situation we are in today,
wasn’t really meant to be a smear…truthfully was said more as a joke,,,and I grew up hearing the John Birch talking points and they were tiring in the 60′s and 70′s now they are laughable. I am not unfamiliar with how this dance is suppose to go just don’t wanna do it any more….sorry Keynes wasn’t a socialist. Maybe one of the reasons I am not such a huge fan of the guy.
IS KEYNESIANISM A SOCIALIST MANEUVER?
There has been a steady and increasing chorus of denials that Keynes and his theories have anything to do with socialists and socialism. Incongruous as it may seem, most of the disclaimers have come from socialists themselves. Beware when socialists defend anyone against socialism! However, there are those bearing conservative labels who join in the same denial. The campaign has been incredibly successful.
Keynes is fixed in the minds of most observers as a savior of capitalism. The argument proceeds that the private enterprise system was failing and take-over either by communists or fascists was imminent. Along came Keynes with a presumably unique and original plan to save the doomed capitalist system from complete disaster. The major precept was projected as a theory of “mixed economy” whereby the government would act as receiver and administrator of the “national product.”
The liberals, bankers, manufacturers and government officials who embraced this package went through the motions like men grabbing at life preservers while still standing on the shore. The sight of the economic waves in the distance was projected histrionically as actual drowning. This stampeded the foolish, the timid and the opportunistic into accepting an old reactionary propaganda device that was refurbished in the modern tones of a cultured English accent.
The first thing Keynes did was to disclaim any connection with marxism. This was an elementary Fabian socialist diversionary move to distract the public from noting Karl Marx’s projection of a “mixed economy” in the Communist Manifesto of 1847. Academic pundits suddenly developed a conscious amnesia about the fact that Marx’s socialist forces intended to “use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie” and that private savings would be eliminated by the simple expedient of, “centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.”(1) This is pure Keynesianism 45 years before Keynes was born. The elimination of private savings and the “euthenasia of the rentier” was the touchstone of the entire Keynesian edifice. Government manipulation of credit policies and regulations that control production movements to undermine the principle of property rights was boldly and directly proclaimed by Marx:
http://www.keynesatharvard.org/book/KeynesatHarvard-ch10.html
Long before Beck nice smear though
G Edward Griffin pt1 of 3
Fabianism-Leninism-Communism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEgU8JrWdXs
@ Viriathus
it’s a religion…doesn’t matter what the real shows the Chico go Boy’s and dutiful disciples well parrot the same thing, over and over and over. It can be seen as destroying the real economy obliterating the social fabric of a society and like good fundamentalist they will scream “WE HAVE FAILED YOU MY LORD” they just didn’t believe hard enough to stop the man made tornado from tearing threw their trailer park.
and was so glad to hear Fabian socialist were back being the bug a boo…maybe Glen Beck will diagram their connection to the real controllers of the world.
“The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.” — John Maynard Keynes
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Keynes
A couple of related links:
Adam Curtis Blog — THE ECONOMISTS’ NEW CLOTHES
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2010/02/the_economists_new_clothes.html
‘…perhaps the economists are the problem? That they themselves cannot see the full dimensions of the project of which they have been a part. But still we listen to them, and still our journalists use their language and assumptions. Which means that despite the disasters we are still trapped in the economists’ world. But the moment you pull back and look at that world from a wider perspective strange things start to emerge. — Over the past 15 years the idea of the “market” has been extended to practically every area of society – education, health, even the arts. But to make this happen those running the neoliberal project had to enforce it by creating vast and intricate performance indicators and feedback systems (which in many cases led to wide scale absurdities). And to do this they used the mighty power of the state. — We think it was the resurgence of capitalism. But maybe it was something very different?’
Yes, Mercantilism. State(ists) as rentier middlemen collecting fees/bribes.
Freedomain Radio — #642 Mercantilism: A theory of state and corporations (MP3)
http://www.freedomainradio.com/Traffic_Jams/FDR_642_Mercantilism.mp3
Gisted — “Mercantilism is simply the transfer of money from the State to particular corporations in return for services without which the State cannot function.” Mercantilism is inevitable whenever there’s a State because the State is fundamentally helpless and can’t do anything for itself. — The government has three relationships in the economy. With: #1. Criminals: The black/gray market. #2. Net-providers of taxes: Companies the State steals from. #3. Net-receivers of taxes: Companies the State gives to via subsidies, tariffs, guaranteed contacts, etc, in order to get things done. — As State power grows mercantilism always ends up as fascism as more and more corporations get their value from, and give their allegiance to, the State. Eventually, when the bloated State has destroyed all geniune wealth creation in the economy, it starts printing money just to pay off the mercantilist corporations it has hired to maintain the appearance that anything reasonable is getting done at all.
Really? The deathbed of Keynesian Economics? What a joke. So the casino gulag model of neoliberalism proves Keynes was wrong? How very convenient for the Friedmanites and Randroids. Tell me, you plucky bootstrappers, was it government spending on the real economy that caused and is exacerbating this mess, or was it unfettered financialization, captured regulators and trickle-down economics?
The only actual Keynesian policies that exist in America are for the MIC and Wall Street. For everyone else it’s the invisible hand – up the ass!
Keynes was a fabian socialist, A derivative of Marxism, same ideology, different strategy. This is the CANCER, now Progressivism, in all Political Parties and infiltrating all parts of society. it is really tribal elitism.
http://www.keynesatharvard.org/book/KeynesatHarvard-ch02.html
@Giuseppe Bagodonutti
“I’m a Post-Anarcho-Austrian Neo-KEEN-sian”
just curious as to what that is? as an anarchosyndiclist I am clueless as to the concept of Anarcho-Austrian….I am assuming you mean some form of minimalist statism ala Nozick if so that is a misuse of the prefix Anarcho….there is no such best as anarcho-capitalism, just can’t exist (all anarchist are oppose all forms of hierarchy, and one can never freely place themselves in a subservient relation)
anarcho-capitalism is like Jumbo shrimp…or my new favorite make believe political concept…”Neo Monarchist” Mr. Romney gave the world that piece of idiocy at CPAC, the current presidents and administration maybe a lot of things, but I doubt if he is that.
My understanding is that THOSE who call themselves Keynesians, AREN’T…
Steve Keen is pretty critical of those types of economists in that they most likely haven’t even read the GENERAL THEORY…
Of course, having read Debunking Economics, I like the idea of learning a subject through its critics…
So here’s what Henry Hazlitt (Austrian School) has to say about Keynes’ General Theory…
http://mises.org/books/failureofneweconomics.pdf
(Full Disclosure: I haven’t read the General Theory, either… but I’m a Post-Anarcho-Austrian Neo-KEEN-sian)
@calidoc
How ’bout the Governator?
@Underfundedmentalist – Oath of Citizenship
What about George Soros?
@doom and bloom
‘This is the Oath that one has to take to become a US citizen…M. Ali may have missed the fine print.’
Mr. Cassius Clay, being a US national, that is, someone born in the united states, Louisville, Kentucky, in this case, did not have to take any such oath. These ‘loyalty oaths’ are reserved for immigrants who become naturalized citizens. Did Kissinger or Brzezinskii ever take this oath? Neither one is a US national.
@Y’All
huh, bangin’ the old tin drum… The Day Oskar Decided Not To Grow up!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGpJg8ZDE78
better link
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phallic
@Dedo:
I did not introduce the topic, it was Jim and Max’s bantering about that clued me in. How would females know of phallic intention, Dedo? (flutter flutter)
BTW:
http://nuclear-news.net/2010/01/08/norway-and-other-countries-dumping-nuclear-waste-off-somalia/
http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2008/09/sarkozy-versus/
(saves money on recycling and one doesn’t have to fight the Fins: just dump the sh*t on the Somalians and then claim one is ‘moralizing capitalism’ but making more)
(Dedo: go with definition #3 on my usage of ‘phallic’ as an adjective:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phallic)
@Frances,..”It’s called dominating nature: a very male prerogative” LOL
I can’t believe a woman had the audacity to state such a claim,..un fkin bee leave able,….tut tut : )
It’s called dominating nature: a very male prerogative, but one that leads to distopian function.
What is going to happen to all of France’s nuclear waste?
Oh, that’s not a ‘green topic’.
@maxkeiser:
Max is a Keynesian: else how could the necessity of battling climate change be brought within the context of social parameters?
@Frances,…yeah,…the pillars in society, unfortunately have a huge following of sycophantic sociopaths,…all part of human nature, and these guys and gals know it all to well!
WHAT GOOD IS EMPLOYMENT IF ONE DOESN’T HAVE ACCESS TO LIQUID ASSETS? Keynes was the ultimate snob!
Dedo:
(on your interesting link)
The goal is to separate the people for the currency that profits on global trade: hence the sdr/reserve system. A global currency? I doubt that. Seems the people will not have access to liquidity but only illiquid assets:
“Therefore, Keynes’s conclusion was that an environment must be created that is conducive to more investment and less hoarding of money. Hence his three policy recommendations:
(1) “parting with liquidity” (giving up liquid assets in exchange for employment-creating illiquid
assets)”
Slaves don’t have money, Dedo. They have ‘employment-creating illiquid assets’, aka chains-attached to rings through their noses.
As for competition under the system: did you see the audience fawning over Sarkozy’s horrid speech at Davos? The free market is in ‘suck-up’ now. (He even mentioned during the speech he noticed someone in agreement..how quaint…how fond!)
@Y’All
DOH!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lONJn_pKnMg
@Frances,..That word “Psychopath” keeps raising it’s ugly head,..huh!
http://www.encyclopedia.com/video/WnUUMs9WIC0-john-maynard-keynes-economic-fascism.aspx
A case of social engineering, my dear Watson, er Dedo. Keynes had his little preferences.
Here’s the detail about the German Edition of Keynes General Theory:
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0898b.asp
@Frances,.I think our boy Al’, rounds it up nicely ! : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk
“Socialization of invesment’ is exactly what is not being pursued by the G20 in their regulation of capital through bank tax, green funds, and basel regulations. The neglect of mention of the affect of basel regulations on investment flows is telling. The men behind the curtain prefer secrecy.”
Nix the not.
Larouche claims Keynes was a fascist:
“Now, Keynes’s system is based upon the British Empire, in terms of system. Keynes was a fascist. That’s his background, as he said in the German edition, which is the first edition of his General Theory, published in 1938 in Berlin. He said he preferred to have his book published in Germany, at that time, because it would have a better reception and be more applicable in Nazi Germany, than it would be in a democratic country. And he was right.”
http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2008/lar_pac/080314lar_on_keynes.html
Obama’s term “our democracy” refers to his state legislated venture capitalism under the rule of the Bretton Woods banks. It is a popular buzz word:
“By placing free trade over everything else we have handed over our democracy to the markets…
We need to find how we can return the economy to the service of mankind. The globalisation that we dreamed of was where each of us would base development on social progress, increased purchasing power, reduced inequality, improved standards of living health and education.”
The crisis is a crisis of skewed capitalism which lost its way. Capitalism needs to be corrected, to have its moral dimension restored. It has always been inseparable from a system of values, a concept of civilization, the idea of mankind, he said.”
http://gulfnews.com/business/general/france-s-sarkozy-calls-for-fundamental-change-1.575320
The moral dimension is not going to be improved by handing over capital control to the IMF banking interests. The advancement of Areva on the global markets is an example of the Keynesian model of state-driven demand/ private investment profit. The results will not be a lessening of the gap between the rich and the poor but instead a select class of elite and a global labor pool at the mercy of the G20 banks.
Words cannot hide deeds: these men are only buying themselves time. When time is fruition, then shock and awe sees their grab for power.
@Dedo:
Actually, I was confusing humanitarianism with socialization of investment. That ‘green fund’ is actually what Keynes was indicating: demand control and appeasement induced by the state:
“socializing investment through the creation of a new kind of capitalist culture of cooperation between private and public authorities…
“[i]t is not the ownership of the instruments of production which it is important for the State to assume. If the State is able to determine the aggregate amount of resources devoted to augmenting the instruments and the basic rate of reward to those who own them, it will have
accomplished all that is necessary” (Keynes 1936, p. 378). ”
The no-child-left-behind/ Bill Gates/Unesco US education remake would be another ‘socialized investment’.
So Keysenian economics is the impetus: the bank tax provides funds to specific banks which implement more of the same ad infinitum.
Sounds fascist? The ‘necessity’ of the state rational necessity/control drives demand which is pulled forward capital to further state power through which the elite profit.
The agenda is to call reality into being through words:
“Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,”
http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html
“A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun”!
I read an interesting article saying that Keynes wouldn’t agree with what is now considered “Keynesianism”
http://www.uncwlibertarians.com/2010/02/economist-keynes-would-roll-over-in-his.html
@ Max
The article on Myth of UK Decline in Production. I managed to reproduce the graph from ONS data. It’s a graph of productivity not production. Index linked to 2005, it’s the production output per job.
Nic
@Frances,..Bombarding our minds from all angles, like little arrows! : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvXDxobNteA
Thanks, Dedo. You do realize that I indexed the citation with quote marks? Here’s more on ‘socialization of investment’ and Keynes:
http://personal.denison.edu/~kaboubf/Pub/2008-IESS-Vol-7-Socialization-of-Investment.pdf
Dedo, it is interesting that most theories of economics decide who gets to hold and use the labor capital. The form of capital itself is irrelevent: the focus of the media now is intentional to hightlight the form and value of capital and ignore the ongoing reform of the system (enabling continued empowerment of Bretton Woods through further rights over capital).
Now most would say it is not labor capital at all now but fiat paper credit. What is being enacted at this stage, though, is an alchemy of sorts in which the paper debt is being transformed into flesh through public debt: we pay with our flesh.
And that includes the system of carbon which details the necessity of death over life:
http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?m=200912
We have been run by monetarists since Keynesian economics died in the last 1970′s how can people blame it for causing the crisis. Monetary policy as exercised by Greenspan and co was a main cause of the crisis and this is not Keynesian at all.
more stuff. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/02/21/87061/war-game-shows-how-attacking-iran.html
Danger: inflation ahead – Prices are rising fast, even if the CPI isn’t 23 February 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/y9mnefy
‘Death of American Capitalism:’ The 10 final scenes – 2012 is our tipping point on ‘road to ruin’ 23 February 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/ycmbofw
@Frances,….Yeah,.right on! : )
You’ve a way with words,…
http://vdare.com/roberts/100222_suicide_bomber.htm
Keynes’s believed that capital controls imposed by the state were necessary:
“The more fundamental reasons for his preference against deficit-financed public works, however, emerge from the theoretical framework he built in his masterwork General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money (1936). As economists Bradley Bateman and Allan Meltzer stress, Keynes was convinced that avoiding depressions required the maintenance of a high level of investor confidence. He believed that (in general and not just during slumps) confidence tended to be too low. This low confidence was due to radical uncertainty generated by speculation inherent in financial markets, especially the stock exchange. This speculation could give rise to unsustainable asset bubbles. The ever-present threat of such speculative activity creates instability in the expectation of investment…
In Keynes’s view, the financial uncertainty generated by such speculation was an unnecessary social burden. It tended to keep long-term interest rates above where they would lead to full employment. The task of good economic management is to reduce this uncertainty burden and lower long-term interest rates through a kind of “socialization of investment.” The state in one way or another (Keynes is not entirely clear on this) should undertake large investments with no thought of speculative gains or advantage. The long-term social return on capital should be its only guide. And it should do this reliably, as part of a well thought-out plan, and on a permanent basis. Stabilization is to be achieved not by temporary and discretionary policies, but by permanent changes. Stimulus follows stability, not vice versa…
Now it is true that government direction of capital is something Keynes advocated. But the current direction of capital by government is being conducted in a manner that flies in the face of Keynes’s underlying justifications for such state involvement.”
http://www.american.com/archive/2009/february-2009/taking-the-name-of-lord-keynes-in-vain
The Bernanke statement about the need for the central bank to ‘stamp out asset bubbles’ is Keynesian. The UK ‘stimulus package’ is not Keynesian. The article is relating a perspective regarding Keynesian theory which is not relevant to Keynes’s theory.
Beware: the G20 is applying Keynesian theory to the reform of the international monetary system. Keynes was not humanitarian: he was interested in servicing the elite monopolized interests:
“Keynes’s most radical reform—the socialization of investment—is now before us as the government has emerged as a majority investor in financial firms. But this socialization is a “temporary” or “emergency” measure and thus severed from Keynes’s rationale of permanence and stability.”
‘Socialization of invesment’ is exactly what is not being pursued by the G20 in their regulation of capital through bank tax, green funds, and basel regulations. The neglect of mention of the affect of basel regulations on investment flows is telling. The men behind the curtain prefer secrecy.
Marc Faber warns that the next war is likely to be a dirty war so is advising to
buy farmland, stock up on gold and water and prepare
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article7035913.ece
rant? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0RtmBgXsyY
@Crumpet,….Well said!
@Dedo – there are laws people agree to live by. You agree to live freely within those laws. Freedom disappears when you no longer have anyone representing you in the creation and policing of those laws. I’d say we are there now.
@Doomandbloom,…..The United States “incorporated”,..and the United States of America,.are two distinct personalities,….go figure
It’s much easier for the MSM to blame Keynes – whose supposed policies have nothing to do with the current mess – than to tackle head on Goldman Swaps and others which are sucking the $ lifeblood out of various economies.
@doomandbloom – was the US really still the US when Clay was born? Does everyone born in the US have to take the oath? What happens if you refuse?
this could start a party. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/22/vice-president-dick-cheney-hospitalized-chest-pains/
@Crumpet Muncher,….Okay,.
BTW: You are aware, the bone of contention regarding such?
Whether, right or wrong,..that was then, and we’ve no “real” way of knowing for sure, if there really was a free society.
the link here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_citizenship_(United_States)
This is the Oath that one has to take to become a US citizen…M. Ali may have missed the fine print
=========
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[1]
===========
@Dedo – the one brought to life in 1776.
@Crumpet Muncher,….Which US you talkin’ about? : )
@Dedo – the US has been around a lot longer than 1967.
@Crumpet Muncher,….Is this your definition of freedom,..
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/on-this-day/May-June-08/On-this-Day–Muhammad-Ali-Convicted-of-Draft-Evasion.html
The media is so desparately trying to tell us that the people who killed the Hamas guy in Dubai are Mossad…
but every person being identified is either British or Irish ..:-)))
NOW..if they were really Mossad…hats off..cos they have managed to push the blame on someone else…but it just seems like a botched up job from MI5 or something
The current media fashion of Keynes-bashing is – in typical MSM fashion – simplistic and inaccurate.
Caught this appearance of Ron Paul under “The Failure of the Keynesian State”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W6KJRIums4
@Dedo
Well put. Discussion of an illusionary economy and its processes are like dreaming while already in a dream.
@Dedo – there was once freedom. Many moons ago it was known as the United States Of America.
@Hawkeye,…I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, in a sense.
Through technological innovation, the current world populace have become surplus to requirements!
There never has been “freedom”, just the illusion of,…and now the farmers need to cull their herd.
Prince Phillip quite blatantly uses said analogy when being interviewed,..go figure,..
Like said I think that Keynes liked the coffee at Goldman Sachs better than on Main Street and so he never left that place.
I really don’t understand all this jibber jabber by professional journalist mind you? I am under the impression that they haven’t got the slightest idea what they are talking about. Or is just to get their blank paper filled up with ink?
What does spending trillions of taxpayer money on shyster snake eye bets have anything to do with Keynes? Absolutely nada, noppus nothing! Get it into your head, read my lips.
What we see now is that the deleveraging of main street still affects the street banks who go bankrupt almost by the day. So please MSM don’t use the name Keynes anymore if you really haven’t got the faintest idea what it’s all about.
I refuse to give free lessons in Keynes economics here to some white shoe shyster fluoride heads who get payed to write utter rubbish.
@David R
Cheers for R L Norman link. I recall reading “p2″ last year:
http://www.southerndomains.com/SouthernBanks/p2.htm
Key point is that most long wave depressions were resolved through technological / labour innovations. The last few have been “resolved” by ever increasing debt levels.
Capitalism is running out of technological steam. There are no credible innovations that can genuinely improve real productivity (REAL work output for Energy consumed).
@Crumpet Muncher
Socialism is not dead. It’s just reserved to Lloys Blankfien God’s envoy from Godamn SS-achs. I would even say that banking is a marxist paradise. Anyways distinction are not important. It’s communism for the oligarchs.
@Crumpet Muncher,…I hope you’re right,..but I bet you’ll find, if you look around,..or even ask folk, especially the younger generation.
The programming goes pretty deep.
BTW: The present financial system is being demolished for this very purpose. We are one,.we are global citizens,.we are the Borg,..: (
@Mark Authier – in my mind this is the war that is being waged now. Freedom is no more (the third way). All that is left is to wait and see which master comes out on top.
@Crumpet Muncher
Socialism is dead but US FASCISM and US National-Socialism à la Adolf Hitler is great shape. Same thing in Europe. How do I define NAZISM à la US and à la Europe ? Easy. Socialize 100% of the banksters losses and privitize 100% of the gains by the same banksters. NAZISM and banking are the same thing today.
@Dedo – without the theft enabled by Keynesianism, Socialism will wither and die.
Psychogeography
http://tinyurl.com/68zoak
Re: The death of Keynesianism = the death of socialism. RIP.
The emergence of the “nanny” state wasn’t an accident, nor is the programming going on concerning “experts”,.e.g,.X factor, dancing on ice, pop star to opera, cookery,..etc,etc.
So to think Socialism is dead, is a misnomer I’m afraid!
We live in a Democracy (tongue in cheek), so consensus rules ! : ),..bring on the brain chip,….
Good Riddance!
VM
Mortgage loan total ‘fell sharply’ in January
http://tinyurl.com/ycv6vco
lending slumped to an 8.5 year low during January as the housing market suffers a lull – 26 per cent down on December. Snow blamed.
Keynesian economics is a disaster, but the Keynesians are still in the driver’s seat. When they fail they’ll blame it on the politicians’ not spending enough. Just like the military will blame its failure in AfPak on inadequate funding. The answer to fail is always “More!”
The death of Keynesianism = the death of socialism. RIP.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7294621/UK-Treasury-fails-to-allay-tax-fears-with-vague-new-code.html
To Tax or not to Tax, that is the question
Mike
Although I agree that Keynesian concepts are so much ‘claptrap’, the author of the article seems to have a hate thing going on against the UK.
The UK cannot be bracketed by Greece and Portugal. Those countries cannot print their own currency; and with their debts being denominated elsewhere (the Euro), they are, in a sense, much closer to ‘Weimar Republic’ status than the UK, the US or Australia.
Australia has benefited greatly from their commodity economy, which is the main beneficiary of the global, so-called ‘stimulus’ actions of world government. This will reverse in the near future, as the stimulus is withdrawn and speculative fever abates . Australia and Canada will then begin to return to planet Earth, and all the hellfire and brimstone that awaits just below the present economic landscape.
A Keynes contemporary, Economist Joseph Schumpeter, ‘creative destruction’ and long wave business cycles theory anticipated what is now occurring, that the success of capitalism will lead to a form of corporatism and a fostering of values hostile to capitalism. He argued that capitalism’s collapse from within will come about as democratic majorities vote for the creation of a welfare state and place restrictions upon entrepreneurship that will burden and destroy the capitalist structure. More than merely Keynesianism may be under seige. http://www.southerndomains.com/SouthernBanks/p1.htm
Thanks Gonzomarx, ChArles, Hawkeye and Dans valley for the insightful comments and links!
Hi Max,
I thoroughly enjoy your Truth About Markets podcast and listen to every episode.
Today I found this article which counters your repeated assertions that there is no manufacturing left in the UK economy.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/
“Manufacturing in the UK has not shrunk………….What has actually happened is that manufacturing has become more productive and moved higher up the value chain, both entirely desirable things.”
Be interested to hear your views on the validity of his thinking.
Best Regards,
Peter
Hi Max and Stacey,
You mentioned them on Jan 8th and voila…
It’s unbelievable, the Eldrigde Cleaver pant revival has begun!
http://guanabee.com/2010/02/penis-trousers/
Kind regards,
Cat
Neoliberalism is just the old game of Mercantilism just the freedom and reach of capitol is greater based on the quickness that modern technology offers it….least with the old slave/rum/cotton triangles their were tangible goods….now the FIRE economy has captured the real economy and just like a parasite is destroying the host….Keynes has many faults…(the demand to fuel endless growth being one of my pet peeves) but the current system of crony capitalism bares no resemblance to his ideas….America is a kleptocracy now
as to the author’s understanding of Thatcher or Marx…. come on people don’t you realize he is playing to the half educated prejudices of his readers….seriously he writes for BIDDNESS DAY
Keynes is the zombie that keeps eating economists brains.
eventually these economist become zombies them self.
Thereby bringing down developed countries worldwide.
When gold was at the highs of around 1980 the US had enough gold to back the dollars it had created. So in some sense it is only 30 years that the US dollar has been unbacked. The money printing in the last 30 years is enormous. At this point fiscal stimulus just hastens the time the government goes broke. Borrowing from the future just brings the point of collapse closer. This scares off more in investment than it helps in increasing demand. Keynes himself said, “In the long run we will all be dead.”. The time Keynesianism dies is getting close.
come on people…..all the rules have been hrown out the window..Keynes may have been applicable to a sound economy…granted a depresssed one…yet once you have extended trillions to the select TBTF banks…well they now have a self perpetuating wealth based economy of the few…and damn the rest of us….when insider trading becomes the norm and accepted basis for all business,,,well what is there more to say..
“Matthew Lynn is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.”
I’d say “the opinions expressed are based on monumental ignorance of economic princliples and policy making”.
The author has clearly no idea about Keynes, and how his name is being taken in vain to justify privatised profits & socialised losses. Keynes is probably spinning in his grave! This article from a Bank of England insider shows how the state has been “captured” by the banking sector:
http://www.bis.org/review/r091111e.pdf
He also has no idea about Marx & Thatcher either. If anyone want to truly understand about globalisation and recent history then David Harvey explains all in this audio commentary on his book “The rise of Neoliberalism”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWWMOzNNrQ
Ron Paul People
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukzPf_6eNBg&feature=player_embedded#
“Effective April 1, 2010, we reserve the right to require (7) days advance notice before permitting a withdrawal from all checking accounts. While we do not currently exercise this right and have not exercised it in the past, we are required by law to notify you of this change”. 7 days of Réflexion!
CITIGROUP announcement. Apparently it’s also the case at other banks.
Preparing for a USA bank holiday.
I never got the ideas of Keynsianism, I always fell asleep during economic classes. It makes no sense other than that it conditions people to be trusting and gullible.
The initial resistance againse economics as a science was completely justified, but as always people think there is merit in things that are hard to master.
When discussing economic science with my student friend that studied it in 1994 I told him I though we should ban television pointing out wealth disparities and make long range transportation much more expensive. I never believed in the housing bubble. Maybe it is a sensitivity only available to people that worry about what is real, those that have been gravely disappointed at some point in their life.
I say where is my F*cking $ Collaspe?
Where is my £ Collaspe?
Oh you promise much Max, when you going to deliver?????
Mike
Ron Paul on CNBC Squawk Box Part 1 – Feb 22nd, 2010.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy92KuvK1BU&feature=player_embedded
In fact Stacy, the clip you posted yesterday (Stargate Studios), is a great lead on for this story !
@chArles indeed…
Europe: Privatised services back in public hands
“After the wave of de-privatisation of water services facilities that started across the world two years ago, municipalities in Europe are now buying back the electricity utilities they sold to private investors in the late 1980s and early 1990s.”
http://tinyurl.com/yddd2xv
To debate a system that is false (not real) is to keep the real system away from public view,…quite the con’ ! : )
What a joke. Not a single reform has been passed. There is *zero* restriction on compound leverage.
To try to spend our way out of this recession, only pours money into the same superstructure which enriches bankers and bankrupts society.
The problem is the potential to create infinite amounts of complex debt — which can be sliced and diced for massive short-term gain, but can never be paid off.
Tell me again, why someone would want to throw more money at that problem? So bankers can turn every stimulus dollar into $1000 in debt, slice it and dice it for wild profits, and watch it all collapse at record speed?
I no longer care. The collapse will come now, or later and it will be more devastating than anyone understands. It won’t be characterized by lines outside of banks. No, it will be characterized by arson, killing, bombs and theft. We won’t have Rothschild’s symbolic “blood on the streets” — we will have actual blood on the streets. This party is going to come to an end in Latin-American style. (Think Havana ’59). And the powers that be will wonder what the world is coming to.
The next trend isn’t inflation or deflation. It’s chaos.
All is well in Brown’s bunker, or maybe not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub8cpV_NxAY&NR=1
Part 1 of 2: Ron Paul, James Carville Lovefest on Larry King 02/22/2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzdaF15x1HE&feature=player_embedded
The only way out … for the World .. NWO :
Bob Chapman : minimum 15% Gold back currency.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRtOic6Cv0&feature=sub
The Guilt-Free Record of George Soros
http://www.sorosmonitor.com/absolutenm/templates/news.aspx?articleid=33&zoneid=1
I am basically there to–to make money. I cannot and do not look at the social consequences of–of what I do.? George Soros, commenting on being blamed for the financial collapse of Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan and Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
@ gonzomarx
Cool do you know where Bakunin is buried too? Be great to get those to back together and restart the international and watch them get in a pissing contest
@chArles
I’ve got a spade…
R.I.P..
@Stacy…please forgive the double posting…but doubt if it would have illicit a response if I did not post it here
in reference to the article
The deathbed of Keynesian economics
if I understand the basics the gentlemen is arguing for
“Get the deficit under control. Raise interest rates to restore confidence in the pound, and reward saving. Cut taxes to stimulate enterprise and investment.”
Also I am assuming that this is the Magical formula, this would not only work for Britain, but my meek country of America…with only altering the word Pound with Dollar.
well how exactly are we gonna get the deficit under control? what exactly should we cut? Doubt very serious the guy would be writing for Business day if he wanted America to forgo the Empire and drastically curtail military spending on securing regional access to resources/markets along with being our functioning American MITI.
maybe he would argue for the old touch stones of the good old days of Reagan and Thatcher of “Just get rid of Waste, Fraud and Abuse” and cut taxes and magic happens. Truthfully he probably supports like his cronies obliterating the remaining social safety net. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security constitutes the largest chunk of the spending. While I will say that abolishing these programs would lead to removing one of the most regressive taxes on the poor and working classes. I doubt if they could afford to take care of their ailing mommies and daddies and truthfully without the continued supply of revenues coming in from FICA taxes our deficits would look horrendous.
As to raising interest rates, cool, REALLY LATE though… don’t you think? America suffers from a lack of confidence in it’s currency but “We the only game in town.” Dollar Hegemony has fueled the American Empire and our House of Debt and the rest of the world may hate, may want desperately to change it….but they have no where else to flee.
As an opponent to the American Empire…I do hope China and the other creditor nations find some courage, but if I was betting on it….I don’t see it for a while.
( fortunately our current American deficits are running so high there may not be enough dollars outside of our country to keep it going….but we can always print more…oh what fun)
Raising interest rates in America would have horrific results for all those states scrambling for money to make sure their societies don’t fall into the dark ages…maybe even push some of them into bankruptcy….and a couple upticks would increase drastically the federal payments to its creditors which puts more pressure on the printing presses.
Cut Taxes…ahh the miracle cure…I remember well as young teenager in Sunday school….constantly hearing the poor pastor complaining about unwed mothers, drug addicts, shrinking congregation and worse shrinking tithes. But Reagan cut taxes and presto chango all problems magically go away. I even hear tell it cures rickets.
Cutting the price I pay for labor, including my own does not necessitate that I go out and hire more folks. The savings can go to new hires….but only if there is demand warranting this increase in production. This in my opinion is a deflationary cycle (over production combined with a drastic curtailing in the purchasing power of individuals) if the magic happens with the tax cuts, more hiring, thus increasing production…it would be like adding gas to a fire out of control.
there is no demand…there is no demand in Florida where I live for 500k 3500sq ft Mac Mansions…when the labor base can not afford the monthly payments by working at Home Depot
So Krugman’s of the world come forth and say the government should step in and create the demand…try to re inflate the bubble….this may be folly (may even be suicidal) but the Conservative prescription of fiscal austerity and lavishing more benefits to the few via lower taxes…is a recipe for social disintegration.
thanks for your time…hope this get’s published…and does anyone want to help my go to Hyde Cemetery in London and dig up the guy that wanted to see the State whither away and die?
it reads like Matthew Lynn is just grinding his axe. said nothing new.
BBC Newsnight cover Goldman with Janet Tavakoli
starts 24.22 minutes in
http://tinyurl.com/q7spjj
Wall Street’s Bailout Hustle
http://tinyurl.com/y9svl65
new Taibbi
Distinguishing Climate “Deniers” From “Skeptics”
http://tinyurl.com/ya8ebaf
@Y’ALL
Public Image Limited – Poptones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8e2CTB9oeQ
Drive to the forest in a Japanese car
The smell of rubber on country tar
Hindsight does me no good
Standing naked in this back of the woods
The cassette played poptones
I can’t forget the impression you made
You left a hole in the back of my head
I don’t like hiding in this foliage and peat
It’s wet and i’m losing my body heat
The cassette played poptones
This bleeding heart
Looking for bodies
Nearly injured my pride
Praise picknicking in the British Countryside
Poptones
No brakes with the throttle wide open maybe we should put Toyota in control of the economy,
THIS SPACE FOR SALE OR RENT
.