Stacy Summary: Two stories on Bloomberg today highlight perfectly our theory of Rigged Market Capitalism.
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ref. max keiser – Get 6 mo’s free storage
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Rick Ackerman-
- Karl Denninger – Market Ticker
- The Big Picture
- Mish
- David Morgan
- King World News
- SmartKnowledge
- GoldCore
fiat money and the french revolution
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crash banksters – Buy Silver & gold
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- A Lightning War for Liberty
yes, rigged is right…………pg
you rigged1st, pg!
{kidding}
Brussels wants to impose GM crops on europe against the will of its people
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthcomment/geoffrey-lean/7431043/The-GM-war-in-Europe-starts-here.html
Looks like a role for the hexacopter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyYujjP5J-k
Off topic :
(so I apologize)
I mention it now because I know that many other passionate posters here have cast their chips on both (either) sides of the debate.
But today Australia’s most prestigious science body and the country’s Bureau of Meteorology declared that Climate Change was “real” (at least for Australia) and that “the link between human activity and climate change is beyond doubt.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/15/2845519.htm?section=justin
{From the article:} “If we just take our temperature, ALL of Australia has experienced warming over the last 50 years. We are warming in EVERY part of the country during every season and as each decade goes by, the records are being broken.
“We are also seeing fewer cold days so we are seeing some very significant long-term trends in Australia’s climate.”
{emphasis mine}
oh and cheers Max, Stacy, and all friendly people here
The World According To Monsanto….
http://twilightearth.com/environment-archive-2/the-world-according-to-monsanto-full-documentary/
If I listen to a cousin that works in the airco industry all his stories are about how the mka money doing things that are required by law and the law was created by the airco industry lobby. F.i. he has to replace coolants with identical alternatives with another name, or he has to do CO2 measurements because the concentration needs to be known even if there is no problem. This summer I heard that the electricity for airconditioning will be factored as essential (non negotiable) in the calculations of the needs for new power plants in Europe. It is a rigged market alright.
I would not fight the riggedness because that leads to more exploitation by banks and unessesary competition, waste, destruction. I would plead for a simple maximum profitability rule and openness over how the market is rigged.
Everybody knows that monoculture is highly vulnerable to pests..You only need to breed a pest for on gm variety and you can basically starve the world..
Do you feel the void under your feet. Another new intergalactiv black hole opening in the USA. The public sector pension black hole is NOW 2 trillion dollars.
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB126843815871861303.html#articleTabs_panel_article%3D1
MONSANTO = Non sustainable agriculture. And guess who that asshole Obama nominated as agriculture secretary ? A Monsanto man. It says everything about that Democrat asshole. Half of Ireland died because of monoculture in the 19th century. The potatoe crop failure in Ireland was a tragedy. Monsanto is fine piece of shit indeed. They couldn’t care less about these “little” potential problems that are (pun) cropping up.
@Mother Earth
Not just pest. In the case of the potatoe crop failure in Ireland it was a fungus.
@Majestic : Is the temperature variation in Australia statistically significant in historical terms…that is the question…and how in the world can anyone connect this to ‘human activity’? What exactly is the definition of ‘human activity’?
Back to topic; this business of GM scares the devil out of me. because it so dangerously intertwines a corrupt proprietary capitalist system with the food chain of the physical world. Whereas the TBTF banks operate a business to business corrupt capitalistic model, the agricultural giants (and big pharma as well) operate a direct-to-slave corrupt capitalistic model. Frightening…
tis GM crop buggers just dont stop do they ??
Hic
SO TOTAL OTC (over-the- counter derivatives) market is $605 TRILLION according to Bloomberg: “Goldman Sachs Demands Derivatives Collateral It Won’t Dish Out” http://tinyurl.com/yfbs88c
@EB, Majestic
Excuse me. There is no debate on climate change, only industry propaganda denying the facts. It is not a political issue and humouring the deniers is a waste of time. As long as the dirty industires make more money than the clean industry however it is very hard to reduce the general (lethal) ignorance. It sucks.
To be precise: TOTAL OTC (over-the- counter derivatives) market is $605 TRILLION according to filings with the SEC.
Lack of diversity = DANGER. It’s true in investment, in languages, in culture, in people, in values, in politics, and also crops. For nature, to be optimal has nothing to do with what Monsanto does. It’s an agriculture based on no equilibrium. Monoculture is a bad as monopolies. Anything MONO is a nono.
Everyone wants a TOB!:-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afRuL5Yk47as&pos=2
Mike
You are already eating Monsato “food” and you don’t even know it.
Make your country list ingredients properly on food packets and where it comes from.
Monsanto are evil and are ripping off farmers and consumers.
Say no to GM whatever it is, ’cause it sure ain’t food.
Our community managed to fight and win against a McDonalds in our suburb.
it is possible to fight this stuff if enough people care, otherwise you will get what your lazy ass deserves.
@Mike2liverpool
“The risk of a U.K. double dip is substantial,” said Hans-Guenter Redeker, London-based head of foreign-exchange strategy at BNP Paribas SA, which predicts an additional 13.6 percent drop to $1.31 by the end of 2010.
Quote from: Pound Bears Bet More Than When George Soros Beat BOE 15 March 2010 (Bloomberg) http://tinyurl.com/ycs8fwj
Four big banks in Australia start to lower term deposit rates.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/savers-sorrow-term-deposit-rates-fall-despite-rba-hikes-20100315-q77e.html
MOVE out of these banks (if you are in them, or equivalent OS)
ING Direct offers 5.85% at call.
Find a website that compares rates and MOVE your money.
Here is one in Australia…
http://www.infochoice.com.au/banking/
It just takes a little effort and some recognition that you are being toyed with.
Double dip? Does anyone get how deeply moronic it is to talk about a ‘double dip’ ‘recession’. Economics is dead and the banks have no working business model other than theft, and people talk about f*ckin ‘dips’? Wake up!
@Mother Earth. I’ve got no problem with your view, as long as you don’t try to extract money from me to support it. Observation is not science. I work in engineering, I’m actively involved in post doctorate research into low carbon technologies, and I don’t agree with your view, but you are entitled to hold it. Just don’t label people who do not share your view as ‘denyers’. Some of us are quite knowledgeable, from a scientific perspective, as to what is going on, and we are entitled to hold our views without being insulted.
Total ‘notional’ derivative contract value 605 Trillion according to BIS
http://www.bis.org/publ/otc_hy0911.htm
http://www.bis.org/statistics/derstats.htm
of which 204 Trillion in the US
http://www.occ.gov/ftp/release/2009-161a.pdf
NB: I have to read this report over and over again and oscillate between laughing and crying:
“…derivatives activity in the U.S. banking system continues to be dominated by a small group of large financial institutions…While market or product concentrations are normally a concern for bank supervisors, there are three important
mitigating factors with respect to derivatives activities…because the highly
specialized business of structuring, trading, and managing derivatives transactions requires sophisticated tools
and expertise, derivatives activity is concentrated in those institutions that have the resources needed to be
able to operate this business in a safe and sound manner. Third, the OCC and other supervisors have examiners on-site at the largest banks to continuously evaluate the credit, market, operation, reputation, and
compliance risks of derivatives activities…”
These are just some of the beauties in this report – repeated, in every report, word by word; zombies, on auto-pilot, down the tubes. One Comptroller of the Currency that really makes one sleep well!
EB
Some like ME are beyond help
Even after climategate, glaciergate and all the other gates they still can not see it’s a money making fraud.
@Mother Earth
The word “denyer” is a terrible word. It refers to the holocaust. There is a problem with your science. The data was manipulated and FALSE. You can’t get this through your head. It’s either science or it’s not. We are not that stupid Mother Earth. Most of the scientists working on the global warming project were either fired or have been forced to give their resignation. It’s the biggest scientific scandal of the century. A huge blow to real science.
@Mother – some others are beyond help; they can’t see that the oil based economy based on 100 year old technology that is not allowed to progress (inside the US) is a money making racket operated by big oil and their friends in govt (cheney, house of saud) and Americans are all forced to pay over $700 billion directly per year to sustain this system through military expenditure alone; that is $2333 PER American man, woman and child; indirect costs are going to be at least that if not much more; just enough Americans seem to prefer neo-feudal systems of monopoly as this thread suggests, from Goldman to Monsanto, monopolies thrive inside the US; so the OPEC cartel thrives under consumers who prefer monopoly to diversity and competition.
@Balois
605 trilllion of nothingness. L’Etre et le néant. It’s a head game. It means nothing.
Expect many many many Icelands. That’s the number’s real meaning.
@RJ
The money making from emission s trading is pretty much off the table if you followed the news…But how about North Pole gate, South Pole gate, Desertification Gate, Water Shortage gate, Food Shortage gate, Dead Oceans Gate, Your Life Screwed By Oil Companies That Already Poison Your Water Gate and I go on an on..Nooo everybody is about sucking Lord Moncktons Shrivelled baton and taking it up the Sphincter from the Energy olichagy. Bunch of No Use pussies.
@Stacy
Thanks, I hadn’t seen your comment
It seems all that can be done is resist the status quo as much as possible and watch the masses that now euforically believe they can fly come to their (short lived) senses as they hit the pavement we call factual reality..
And one more point regarding people who are still support this MMGW nonsense
People are losing their jobs because of this fraud. Others are starving to death because of it. Even useless windmills are making people sick because of the noise levels.
The elite I don’t believe are bad but will walk all over us if we let them. So we need to stop trusting like children and make a stand on this.
@Stacy
No lover of big oil. Talking about economy and ecology, I don’t see what it do paying a big fat commission to Al Gore that big fat demonic parasite, the “inventor of the internet” * (a lie). Another lie by Al Gore. Oil is running out anyways.
20 years from now Stacy, companies like BP and Exxon will have liquidated themselves. And the price of oil will be 1000$ per barrel. Hey who knows. I don’t believe in the global warming. No science behind it. But peak oil and peak natural ressources ? Absolutely. What a cause to defend ? Start by promoting better urbanism, less highways, more trains and another way of life. No need to feed demonic hogs like Soros and Gore in the process.
There seems to be a lot of opinion on the subject of CC, without much tangible information. Let me tell you where I’m coming from. See the website Masdar.ae.
I’ve spearheaded the development of low-carbon building materials there, that have resulted in a reduction in the carbon footprint (based upon audited values) of 70%. We have Nobel Laureate environmentalists involved in this activity.
@Stacy: This project was conceived and is being driven by the big bad oil industry.
@Stacy
Big oil by the way is a TERRIBLE investment. Terrible. Their asset base is litterally vanishing and the price of oil because of our real stupid USA buddies Saudi Arabia, does not justify new exploration. A shock is coming but it’s a CO2 shock. It’s a peak resource shock. And it will cause as usual a third world war.
ME
You’re making stuff up now regarding all these gates
I understand that people want to believe in the system. And politicians, scientists and the media are part of this system.
But it’s how the elite control us. Like sheep.
@Authier @RJ – seriously, there are literally like 10,000 websites devoted just to pretending that mathematics does not exist and that all the evidence that the earth is more than 6000 years old is false; you can replicate experiements at home that prove a greenhouse gas effect; the scientific method is obviously one of constant testing and challenging assumptions, and you see that more clearly in astrophysics where there is less human emotion attached to one outcome as in environmental science where many are seriously attached to driving humvees and making governments divert money to road building and ignoring the 30,000+ road accident deaths per year while others are seriously attached to breathing fresh air and not having to drive a car with all the insurance and depreciation attached to that money pit and thus try to lobby government to build public transport with the tax money rather than highway systems
@Stacy
Obama is kissy kissy too with the Sheik. Guns,Oil and Drugs. GOD !
@EB
You may not be convinced for whatever reason, but I see there are enough people that are. If you want to live in your country you need water, and you never complain that other people take some of your income to build a new desalination plant. In Holland we have the same thing with protection against the sea. These same people see the climate problem, and they have seen it (in the US) already in 1979 when it was simply suppressed by Reagan.
See http://www.greencheck.nl/documents/charney_report1979.pdf
Now of course someone is going to take some of your money to fund action to mitigate and prevent this. If you don’t like it than you should protest all other community funded projects that don’t bring you any direct personal benefit
@Stacy
And NOW we understand for what God Lloyd Blankfien works for. Blankfien workds for GOD (Guns Oil and Drugs).
@RJ – the history of the US and economics and monopoly would suggest that big oil which has existed for over 100 years and which has altered the entire infrastructure of the US with its vast highway system and zero independence allowed via say cheap, efficient public transport would suggest that you are seriously naive if you think these monopolists have no power . . . if you read the two articles on this link, they disprove your belief that monopolists are helpless against the likes of Al Gore; Goldman can destroy all competition and Monsanto can too; not because they are superior products, but because they own the force of the state and justice which bends to their will and eradicates their competition; if Al Gore is competition to Exxon; I know who I would place my money on if I were a gambling gal
Well WW3 or whatever it will be called (I would go for “Resource war”) will diminish earth population to 1/3 .. perfect plan that helps UN to save money and at the same time get better control over global population.
Riggers rigging equipment, tackle, or gear made for a specific purpose.
Central controlling communists lol
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs38/f/2008/361/9/5/17TH_CENTURY_SHIP_FULLY_RIGGED_by_RIVERKING.jpg
Sometimes I feel that people have trouble distinguishing the difference between what is science, and what is religion. And I don’t think that an international carbon tax and trading system can be effectively compared to a community project.
@Mother Earth
And who will manage the funds ? The same governments implicated in guns, oil and drugs. There is like a mental illness with all you statist. The process is FLAWED since the beginning. Like the cds.
Get it through skull Mother Earth GOLDMAN SACHS controls 10% of this racket ! Soros has another cut. And Al Gore. The same people selling the drugs the oil and the guns doing good for Mother Earth. Ah ! Cut the crap ! It’s like having Al Capone in charge of fighting organized crime. What the hell is wrong with your reasoning capacities ? It’s not that complicated to understand.
When it comes to benefits from US government largess, Al Gore is no different from any other US industry, be it Oil, GM foods, of Defense industries. He’s just accessing it from another vector.
@EB
Then you should think a little bit longer. I am against cap an trade as it is suggested, because it has been corrupted by the speculators. You can read why here : http://www.climatebabes.com/index.php?/archives/68-Why-Clean-Projects-should-not-earn-Carbon-Emission-Rights.html
You have no idea how easy the transition could be.
By the way, this should be interesting to you as well : Desalination at 20% of the usual cost http://www.saltworkstech.com/
I know how it works.
@Marc
You don’t care about money now, so don’t pretend you suddenly do with climate funds. Anyway, how smart is it to dely a problem because you don’t trust the people proposing a solution?
Stacy
CO2 is not a pollutant. Its essential for life on earth.
There are many problems that can be addressed without diverting huge amounts of money to bankers and con men like Gore.
Cheap energy is great. Why try and deny this to the developing world. Pollution is a problem but moving manufacturing from the West to the developing world will make this worse not better.
Maybe this is a test by the elite for us. If we can not see through this con then there is no hope and we deserve collectively to be treated like sheep.
What do you think about nuclear energy.
Wars are always resources wars. The others are just excuses and alibis for the steal and the pillage. War is a racket. So was the Credit Carbone market which based on flawed and FRAUDULENT and manipulated scientific data. Just a reminder. The main scientists working on this were either fired or had to submit their resignation. The message is quite clear. It was a fraud. Still is.
And I’m convinced that we could replace oil with anhydrous ammonia, which only requires air, water and electricity. It can be made from sea water. The electricity can come from offshore wind farms, hydroelectric or nuclear power. This technology has been around for a long time, and current gasoline powered vehicles only require minor modification to use it. The X15 was powered by anhydrous ammonia in the mid 1960′s, and in the case of war the Pentagon could replace oil supplies with this energy source if required.
Thanks for the comments, I’ll be working on my less that 0.2 Euro/Watt domestic heliostat now..
@RJ – I’ve already read those talking points spewed on all sorts of websites and on fox news; you might also argue that protein is essential to human life as well; it doesn’t mean my eating 5 pounds of beef per day every day would not be damaging to my health.
@Mother Earth
Go give your money to Lloyd Blankfien. It’sthe MOST important thing.
Follow the money !
When I give my money for a good cause, I FIRST check if the money is not going in the pockets of crooks. Non merci. It’s numéro UNO. The intention are maybe good, but the science is crappy ! and the people in charge are criminals and crooks and pigs ! Mother Earth don’t forget to send your check to Lloyd Blankfien GOD’s envoy.
CO2 is toxic in high concentrations. ONLY. 15 ppm is non toxic. It’s much too diluted to be harmful to anyone.
@EB
I tried to get it on the agenda in Holland (Ammonia), but McKinsey and the Boston Consulting as well as the ECN (dutch energy research) and TU Delft (Nerds) all did not know about it. The policy bleuprint (sitll confidential) does not mention it either. That is is the devastating power of the oil lobby for you.
mathematics does not exist and that all the evidence that the earth is more than 6000 years old is false; you can replicate experiements at home that prove a greenhouse gas effect;
What has this to do BTW with MMGW (that some people believe the earth is not 6000 years old)
And no one is saying the greenhouse effect does not exist. It does. Bit the question is whether a small increase in CO2 is going to cause a complete warming disaster on earth.
That can only be stopped by paying carbon credit (or tax) indulgences to the ruling elite.
just say no. http://www.youtube.com/user/FeverIAm#p/a/f/1/fONHdWxLC6w
@Marc
If you read EB’s comment you must admit that striving for a hydrogen economy is the biggest scam in history..That is where your money is already going.
The big secret is that we can all live wealthy healthy independend lives in a clean world, but instead we feed the powerplay addiction of a few bullies.
@RJ
Ruling elite ? That’s too nice. Call them the alpha male monkeys. A little bit of zoology to describe what I think about the monkeys in charge.
Well, here’s someone that didn’t use oil to cross the Atlantic!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/sports/15row.html?hp
WOW~!
@authier – nobody is talking about the toxicity of co2; we are talking about the greenhouse gas effect; and ‘glaciergate’ nor ‘climategate’ disproved anything; the Himalayan glaciers, for example, are still demonstrably melting, the scientist in this case had incorrect projections; this is common throughout all science; trial and error is the foundation of science from looking at evolution through the origin of the universe a theory is established and then scientists try to disprove it essentially through experiments that test the theory;
@RJ @EB – I would love to know why you like the OPEC cartel so much; this could help explain why Monsanto and Goldman flourish with their own respective monopolies
Petition calling for independent research and strong regulation of GM foods:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/eu_health_and_biodiversity/?cl=509882417&v=5592
stacy,,,oil markets manipulated and rigged?,,,na,,,just a money making scheme,?,,na,,,thats imposible,,could never happen in this country…na……………………….pg
Greenhouse gas. I am really happy to have them. If it wasn’t for global warming which is a trend that depends much more on solar activity, Canada Québec, Russia and about half of the USA woulb be under 2000 metres of solid ice ! Climatology is a new science. You cannot base ALL your projection on a ONE variable. And besides that higher temperatures globally are absolutely not a bad thing for agriculture and vegetation.
@pg – lol; and you remind me actually that Goldman Sachs is THE biggest player in the oil market; so to those shouting that global warming is a ‘fraud’ to enrich Goldman Sachs via carbon credits; well, what do those same shouters have to say about the fact that Goldman essentially owns the Nymex and you see their power in that they wiped out both Semgroup and Amaranth . . . it’s that red team / blue team thing again; as long as the fraud enables or enhances your own particular lifestyle choice, it seems many are happy to deprive others of their rights
@Stacy : This is an interesting point; the OPEC group. OK, in reality it is dominated by Arabian Gulf States, and these countries largely have autocratic political systems, with non-representative, local political houses.
It is interesting to note that the economic models for these countries are somewhat similar to those proposed by many so-called ‘radical’ economists; ie, there are no income taxes, and the natural resources of the countries are used for the development of the country. This means that it is difficult to wage war; one cannot extend spending too far into the future because there is not future tax base. This is the type of economy (as opposed to political system) that I sense Ron Paul would like to operate in America. I also know, from having worked at high levels in the government of that region, that the IMF has been trying to get their claws into the region for at least 2 decades, and have been trying to force the introduction of an income tax. I also know that, when operating government budgets, if we didn’t have the income, we cut our budget. No deficit government spending was allowed. End of story.
When it comes to the economic crisis, most people don’t realize that money lost in the Gulf is money lost. It ain’t coming back, it’s gone to ‘money heaven’, because there is not taxation system to support the arrangement of future repayment. That is why the situation in Dubai (and Saudi for that matter, is so important).
I’m not a supporter or non-supporter of OPEC. They are another piece of the puzzle to me, nothing more.
@Stacy
Forgetting a century of data is not a projection problem. It excluding data that doesn’t fit your working hypothesis. It’s fraudulent. This is not an exact science. Nobody was there to measure the real temperature 10,000 or 50,000 years ago.
You can do anything with extrapolation. The funniest thing is that they forgot to consider the MOST important variable of all; THE SUN ! Bad science indeed. No science at all. I am neither a “denyer” nor a fan of big oil or FOX trash TV.
there is tremendous pressure by the richest in the US and elsewhere to move the public debate away from immanent, man-made climate disaster – so as to hopefully avoid paying the victims of this climate crime the multi-trillion dollar climate-debts/climate-reparations owed them.
on Mar 3…Oarfish are washed up on the shores of Japan…triggering their ancient belief that there will be an earthquake soon.
Scientists..as usual dismissed these claims as superstition
yesterday a 6.6 R scale earthquake hit Japan….
Sometimes i wonder wether i should really believe in science?
@Max .. possibly valid but where does this stop? Descendants of African slaves could claim the same…. American Indians…. What about tribes in Africa and South America… the Chinese after the Opium Wars… South African blacks after Apartheid? The list becomes endless…
It seems there is no way of overcoming the brutality of these banks and cartels without being brutal. The trick is to be so brutal that nobody gets it or dares to point it out.
If someone figures out how to escape the Easter Island scenario in any way they will be the true saviours of the world..For now the only option seems to be to hope we can’t keep it together..
Here is a story that we have covered several times but that got ZERO attention by those sites and groups dedicated to denying climate change:
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0413/096-sachs-semgroup-goldman-goose-oil.html
Apparently, Goldman driving the price of oil to $147 is not a big issue if we get to keep our present transport system in tact, but these same groups then use Goldman’s role in carbon credits as a boogey man saying they will drive up the cost of energy.
Which is it?
@Max
It’s mostly the waste of resources and the peaking of everything that will be dramatic. I try to imagine a US economy with a 1000$ oil barrel. Like Detroit in all states. We can at least agree one thing I hope. Overconsumption and the famous “American Dream” will lead to war. Still do not think that paying a commission to God’s envoy is a good idea though ?
Both?
It is both.
The whole climate change polarization is just to “divide and conquer”.
If the status quo remains… ‘cool’! Let’s just keep exploiting things the way they are! If things get too bad for the plebs, we’ll just crash the economy.
If on the other hand the scientists win, well… we’ll just corner the carbon sequester credits markets. (Like we all know they can and will)
So do they care which eventuality occurs?
Do we really think they care about what’s real anyway??
Max says “rise up”
really guys, we need to “WAKE UP”
For German speaker ..
Berninger .. Die Grenze, Öl und Krise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Aea7f5WHY
New TV film (Germany 2010) “Die Grenze” .. showing tonight.
He suggests we watch it !
http://www.tvinfo.de/
@Stacy:
Max is contending that Movie futures will lead to unprecedented opportunities for corruption and bubbles. Well, having worked on the carbon assessment side of things; it is very far from an exact, audited science. In my view if a carbon trading system goes global, it will be worse that the derivatives fiasco that we currently have now….
Stacy. I am part of a group of one. Which group ? Still. It’s important that system be kept by honest bookies. The credit carbon market makes me think of Kenny Boy and what ENRON did in California’s energy market. A good example for demonstrating how easy it is, to rigg the markets with these instruments. Another stinking derivative might I remind you, with all the dangers included. And who would check this market in the USA ? The SEC crooks ! Boy !
On est pas sorti de l’hôtel ! et du bordel !
How do we know that the IPCC and climate information is not rigged by those that which to extinguish carbon fuels in preference for a hegemony on energy source through the NPT treaty and nuclear power? It seems both sides of the debate are ‘captured’:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/the-landscape-of-a-nuclear-britain-but-is-it-the-best-option-1669290.html
Monied agency is working on both sides of this ‘scientific debate’, deluting science in preference for dogmatic assertions. There is no one who can predict the affect of carbon on the ocean levels anywhere. It isn’t possible. These are all guesses.
And the power player is French nuclear giant Areva. Why don’t we hear about Areva? They have colonized Africa for years.
deluting? well diluting and deluding would make the word viable!
EB
yes, carbon trading – if managed by the current crop of dopes – will just feed more wealth and income gap. Carbon trading has nothing to do with the rise in global temps. That is happening with or without carbon trading.
re: Where does it stop? I think the question is; ‘where does it begin?’ At one point does autistic rigged market capitalists stop driving the economy into the ditch?
let’s start somewhere!
Maybe honest carbon accounting is the place to begin.
Possibly, with honest carbon accounting, ancillary benefits of re-balancing other parts of the economy might pop up as ‘externalities’ obviating the need to go back and bail out the Indians, Slaves, etc.
But let’s at least try to be human.
But let’s at least try to be human.
The elite forwarding the ‘climate change’ agenda wish to eliminate over half the world’s population of humans, strip people of property rights, and inculcate a world order in which energy is controlled by those with access to state contracts through nuclear power proliferation and carbon caps. The goal is a “post-industrial” world.
aside from the greenhouse effect
increased C02 is also killing off ocean life – even less debate about this point – and it’s a net-worse problem than what’s happening in the atmosphere.
humans will ‘adapt’ which means cyborgs and avatars will survive but homo sapiens are not going to make it. I suspect that those arguing for climate holocaust denial are in part – already infected with cyborg memes that have taken over their minds.
add the effects of prescription drugs on fetuses and you get a grusom cocktail of zombies and carbon apologists.
I watched Bill Mahers show this past week – bill was trying to fight the CHD industry (climate holo. denial) – and not doing a good job. gosh, I wish i was on that show – it’s like open season against nit-wits. I would just devastate those lame asses.
Bien dit Snoot ! You a have a fantastic point of view Snoot. So true ! Bill Gates is really preoccupied by Earth. Too much poor people. Let’s sterilze them and give them a nice little cancer. These billionnaires always have an obsession with exterminating and culling the human cattle specially the poor. Hitler finally won.
@Snoot
Classic projection..If you can make it seem the ‘climate people’ cause the problems they try to prevent you have a perfect scapegoat…
Question: How long do people go on eating the cookies from the jar? Will they fight over the last cookie? Do they know how to make cookies? Who is most likely to guard the jar, the bully or the social person (recognizable by his/her black eye) ?
Phil Jones There has been no global warming since 1995
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html#ixzz0iFGpjGgO
The way I see it we have two wealth sucking monsters roaming the earth at present. Banks and Governments. The not only suck up wealth but Govts are more and more being run by out of control, control freaks.
Lets not release another one. This time green.
Max
CO2 is a lie!
Mike
@Max: I think that the history of human struggle can be defined as the attempt to escape from the brutal, Darwinian nature of the Pareto curve.For a brief period, the United States and Western Europe, post world war 2, managed to bend this curve just a little, but this was at the cost of the rest of humanity. Now globalization has spread the truth of the Pareto curve to all peoples, including the USA, homogeneously.
I agree that a nation by nation carbon footprint import tariff type of arrangement might be an idea, although this might be gamed as well.
@frances snoot
But let’s at least try to be human.
The elite forwarding the ‘climate change’ agenda wish to eliminate over half the world’s population of humans, strip people of property rights, and inculcate a world order in which energy is controlled by those with access to state contracts through nuclear power proliferation and carbon caps. The goal is a “post-industrial” world.
MK: I agree that the elite are using climate change to scare people into carbon trading and other ways to concentrate wealth more. But this still leaves the problem of climate change. To this end, I don’t think that climate change should be the first order of business in global economic reform. I think getting rid of rigged market capitalism has to be priority no. 1. Second on the agenda should be to harmonize global IP laws and roll back to 14/28 year protection for copyright and patents. After these two items, then look at other issues such as climate change.
increased C02 is also killing off ocean life – even less debate about this point – and it’s a net-worse problem than what’s happening in the atmosphere.
What?
Is this the new scare now.
Global warming is not happening after all but it’s killing off ocean life. The alkaline ocean might become a little bit less alkaline and everything in the ocean will die.
To me, carbon is a measure of resource sustainability, quite apart from the global warming/climate change scare-mongering. The best way to measure sustainability is to measure the carbon of something, which can be accurately determined.
It is trying to quantify the actual reduction of carbon that offers unlimited opportunities for fraud in a market trading environment.
@Max
Good point, Let’s all send a message to bill maher he shold have Max on..
@RJ
If you don’t plant your peabrain in the garden of knowledge you’ll be scared into all types of selfdestruction..
@EB
The solution is really simple: Phase out the burning of things.
€
The view from Athens: more pain, then gain for the euro
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investment-ideas/the-view-from-athens-more-pain-then-gain-for-the-euro/article1500566/
Classic projection..If you can make it seem the ‘climate people’ cause the problems they try to prevent you have a perfect scapegoat…
MotherEarth:
I wrote that both sides of the climate issue are captured by monied interests. I’m not trying to scapegoat anyone. The debate is not intellectually honest.
Max is insisting axiomatic declarations are the same as logical arguments. They aren’t. Where is the scientific study linking climate change to CO2 emissions. No one has provided it here. Why not? It should be easy enough to post a link to shut up those you accuse of “projection”.
Science may theorize about the effects of emissions upon the climate: but only theorize. To declare the ideas “truth” is stretching science over the tight drum-head of dogma. It is a classic Hegelian manouver. We all know where ‘necessity-driven reality’ took us last time. It was an holocaust.
You, Mother, refused to link one study or any data to Adam C concerning climate change. I was waiting. I’m still waiting.
I think getting rid of rigged market capitalism has to be priority no. 1.
@maxkeiser:
That won’t happen unless we get rid of the Bretton Woods Institutions/central banks/BIS.
@M/E. in your latest video you say you can buy a farm in france for 10.000 euro. is this true? point me to a link as i may buy one.
@MAX : Second on the agenda should be to harmonize global IP laws and roll back to 14/28 year protection for copyright and patents.
Even more worrying to me is this trend to grant patents to biology…dna, gm crops, etc.
I understand that some companies have scientists scouring the world looking for unknown chemical compounds in plants with the intention of patenting these. Seems wrong to me. Will our great great grandchildren have dna that encroaches upon a patent owned by some hypermegacorporation?
@Ronron
Well, that would undercut my ambitions..It is a piece of 1 hectare with a far house. I checked but as of yet you can’t live in it fulltime (would be kind of primitive)..How much are you looking to spend..
on GMO from: “Bill Gates talks about ‘vaccines to reduce population”
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Gates_Vaccines
“Announcing his success at a 2001 press conference, the president of Epicyte, Mitch Hein, pointing to his GMO corn plants, announced, “We have a hothouse filled with corn plants that make anti-sperm antibodies.”14
Hein explained that they had taken antibodies from women with a rare condition known as immune infertility, isolated the genes that regulated the manufacture of those infertility antibodies, and, using genetic engineering techniques, had inserted the genes into ordinary corn seeds used to produce corn plants. In this manner, in reality they produced a concealed contraceptive embedded in corn meant for human consumption. “Essentially, the antibodies are attracted to surface receptors on the sperm,” said Hein. “They latch on and make each sperm so heavy it cannot move forward. It just shakes about as if it was doing the lambada.”15 Hein claimed it was a possible solution to world “over-population.” The moral and ethical issues of feeding it to humans in Third World poor countries without their knowing it countries he left out of his remarks.”
from: Bill Gates talks about ‘vaccines to reduce population’
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Swine_Flu/Gates_Vaccines/gates_vaccines.html#f4
@max and stacy
The guy who wrote the article, William Engdahl, is soon out with a new book “Gods of Money, Wall Street and the Death of the American Century”, how about having him on one of your shows?
He has been some times on TheRealNews and once on RT I think.
yeah, he also wrote a book on GMO: Seeds of destruction
Israel US ties in a deep crisis..This goes against the idea Obama is keeping up the Pro israel lobby as Bush did..And it alienates allies in a war against Iran http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8567706.stm Is the US ready to let the arabs drive the Israelites into the sea, and did Israel expect there to be no response? This may as well be a setup to provoke arab states into the war the US wants..
China buys argentine oil http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8567440.stm
If that includes the area to with Brittain lays claim then this is a good way to start a war (although unwise imho)
For those still caught up in the debate about whether CO2 will increase temperatures by 2 or 4 degrees in the future, blah blah blah… this is just a distraction. Stop and take a look at the bigger picture – change is already here. Animal and plant ranges are changing. Permafrost is melting.
Range shifts and adaptive responses to Quaternary climate change
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11326089
The effect of permafrost thaw on old carbon release and net carbon exchange from tundra
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7246/full/nature08031.html
One of the scariest scenarios following increased CO2 is ocean acidification leading to disappearance of plankton – nothing less than the basis of life on earth.
Anthropogenic ocean acidification over the twenty-first century and its impact on calcifying organisms
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v437/n7059/abs/nature04095.html
@M/E. i like to spend as little as possible. i can live rough. is there any places around the 10.000?
chart 10 year
USD per €
http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/cgi/fxplot?b=EUR&c=USD&rd=*&fd=1&fm=1&fy=2000&ld=31&lm=12&ly=2010&y=monthly&q=volume&f=jpeg&a=lin&m=0&x=
excellent custom FX chart site:
http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/plot.html
Kinda creepy having DuPont battle Monsanto. Don’t really trust the outcome. Did I miss any replies to Gordo’s question about oil and gas prices. Still think it has something to do with Alaska up and coming natural gas pipeline.
I wrote a little story in Under the Bridge comments, hope you read it as it’s pretty funny and I put it there as that is where it belongs.
@ frances – This was an awesome story; thanks for linking to it.
redzebra
A non warmist paper on acid oceans if you are interested.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/originals/acid_seas.html
One wonders at the reason for the re-appearance of this study, almost in disguise as it were, at a time when the integrity of the IPCC AR4 is under intense scrutiny and Senators are under extreme pressure to pass cap and trade legislation.
@m/e
re: China buys argentine oil: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8567440.stm
The key thing to watch is the currency in which oil will be priced in. If this ownership enables China to acquire oil in trades disconnected from the petrodollar, then the US has a MAJOR problem on its hands.
Funny, in early 2003 the petroEuro was a credible threat, but the Iraq invasion killed that idea off:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2003/feb/23/oilandpetrol.theeuro
@MotherEarth:
I agree with what you’ve written about the error of consumption-driven industrial demand/gratification. But the move to nuclear power is another grave error. And I’m aggravated by the deceptions pulled forward by “science” and the press.
As long as the press, the governments, and scientific “agencies” remain captured by those monied interests behind the WHO and UNECSCO, we can envision further abuse not only of freedom but of Mother Nature.
The question is viability of the planet for sustaining life in future: is it possible, really, that man can conquer nature through CO2? I doubt it. But the problematic is the mindset of self-ingratiating interest which seeks to dominate and alter natural ecosystems. (blowing off mountaintops for coal is one example)
The correlation between the recent ecological imminent “threat” to the planet from CO2 and the move to a new reserve system from the “dollar paper standard” is, to my mind, quite pronounced. The same men wish to retain power and are doing so through exacerbated threats, coercion, state sanction, and ownership of scientific agencies.
Case in point: WHO, the ‘swine flu epidemic’, bubonic plague, Ukraine, and those Gazprom contracts.
Retention of power and a move to alter the international financial system in a profound way is finding power-driven-domination through UN agencies and state-funded science.
Skeptism is a natural reaction.
@Ronron
Here is land on which you may build your strawbale house for under 10000 Euro.. http://www.terrain-construction.com/achat_terrain_a_batir/Vienne-86/77046-terrain_a_vendre-Charroux.htm
As long as everyone agrees that monoculture sux, GM foods suck, the markets are rigged within an inch of their lives, peak oil/peak resources is a real concern, and our methods of growing, shipping, and storing food = a disaster in the making, then I say nobody has an excuse not to get their hands in the dirt and plant something!! It’s your homework. Do it within the next few days!
Don’t have much space? Plants with shallow root systems do well in pots; lettuces, asian salad greens, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, herbs, radishes, arugula, and even potatoes do the best in pots. (Dwarf varieties of all plants are least likely to outgrow pots.) Things like radishes, tomatoes, green onions, baby carrots, beets, and chili peppers can be grown in window boxes. Bush tomatoes can be grown in hanging baskets. Cucumbers can be trained up a trellis so they take up vertical space instead of horizontal space. And of course, just about anything can be planted in a nice-sized gardening container or raised bed.
So get to work, climate change debaters.
Dont know how anyone can trust that dickhead Bill Maher. Anyone who swallows the official 9/11 story is either as thick as pigshit or else a corporatist shill…..Maher’s definetly the latter.
@Mother Earth …Here is land on which you may build your strawbale house for under 10000 Euro..
Yes, it was shown on German TV a few months ago.
Excellent !
@danny @david @dork – just wrapped our interview with David McW and managed to ask your questions! can’t wait for you to see it!
Monsanto revolving door:
1999- 2001 information: http://www.purefood.org/Monsanto/revolvedoor.cfm
Can anyone help me find a current list? I know a handful of Monsanto appointments; don’t know if there is a new list somewhere, though.
Good talk from Denninger :
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/marketticker
Must listen.
Talks about …
# many CDS Contracts should eb Null and Void.
# FDIC and FASB
# Janet Tavaloki and Gold
@Phil /Germany
Land for £10k with planning permission is great, how much would it cost to build a house though?
Looks like the land is in a remote place
And how would you live/ work/ get income to live?
@Snoot
To easily do people let themselves be caught in false choices. I for one am no nuclear advocat, simply because there is no fuel and no solution for waste.
nature shows there is enough energy to sustain life anywhere, as plants and life is found almost anywhere. nature already invented a super efficient solar power mechanism called photosysthesis.
If we want a clean future we need to take it by force. This means some people getting rich burning stuff will become less rich, that is a small price to pay. It is completely possible to transition to a clean society without nuclear, there is just a bunch of rich people in the way.
@davem … Land for £10k with planning permission is great, how much would it cost to build a house though? …
The house itself was under 100,000 Euros IIRC.
The hay is a great insulator for summer and winter .
@And how would you live/ work/ get income to live?
Ever heard of Internet and WAN ?
I myself use a Radio-based DSL connection of ca. 2 Megabit.
It’s fast enough for everything I do.
( I don’t download loads of rubbish, just the occasional YT vid.)
I agree with what you’ve written about the error of consumption-driven industrial demand/gratification. But the move to nuclear power is another grave error. And I’m aggravated by the deceptions pulled forward by “science” and the press.
What’s wrong with nuclear
Most of the waste can now be converted and reused
A big part of the current problem is the current financial / money system. Change this and the need for ongoing consumption to feed the beast will start to reduce.
@RJ
Read up on nucear and you will not think it is viable anymore..
Monsanto criminals in government/Obama appointments:
Rajiv Shah – picked by the Obama Administration to head up the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)
Michael Taylor appointed to new FDA position of “Senior Advisor to the Commissioner”
Islam Siddiqui, nominated by Obama administration for US Agricultural Trade Representative
Good article: A href=”http://www.wellnessresources.com/freedom/articles/health_scandal_of_the_decade_monsantos_gmo_perversion_of_food/”>Health Scandal of the Decade – Monsanto’s GMO Perversion of Food.
(Suck it, Monsanto!)
oops . . .Health Scandal of the Decade – Monsanto’s GMO Perversion of Food.
I cringe when I watch PBS and see the Monsanto ads. Think I’ve only ever seen Monsanto ads there. They are a PBS sponsor.
If we want a clean future we need to take it by force. This means some people getting rich burning stuff will become less rich, that is a small price to pay. It is completely possible to transition to a clean society without nuclear, there is just a bunch of rich people in the way.
You do realize, Mother, that the big boys are set to change our very definition of money? The monetary authorities deign to provide currencies to the people of the nation/states through which many have attained the ideal termed “rich”. This system is about to change. In fact, we will see the first harbingers of the new after December with the sdr/reweight.
Remember: monetary assets on the books of the monetary authorities (G20 banks/ECB), nonmonetary assets stored as gold by patriots.
The question of taking things by force relies upon the status of the weaponry between these two entities: (those with monetary assets and those without). I’m sorry to relate to you, Mother, but the monetary authorites command the weaponry in its most sophisticated and dire form.
What force are you indicating we will use and against whom? Rich people won’t be rich for much longer: it’s an inevitable unwind of paper currency, dollar denomination, and the exchange-rate system.
Those who understand which assets will retain value in the new reserve system will be the power brokers.
The monetary authorities are working to assure that the unit of account (SDR) on their books at present will be the only form of international liquidity available for reserve and global trade. Currencies will be superfluous. And no one is stopping them: the people are invested in illiquid assets or playing games within the system of dollar-denominations.
ME
I have. And what I read changed my mind. France seems to be doing fine using it.
Whereas Biofuel has pushed up food prices. And is not a smart way to go especially if the world is moving into a small ice age and with increasing population growth.
Ha ha. AIPAC can suck it, too!! Boo hoo, we’re AIPAC and we paid you millions not to say bad things about Israel, Barack. Now you’ve got us all mad . . . boo hoo hoo.
Most of the waste can now be converted and reused
Or dumped off Somalia.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html
Again I am having problems Visiting tis Site
Oh Well I already know the whole play now
Hic
@RJ … What’s wrong with nuclear // Most of the waste can now be converted and reused
No, that complete BS !
There ca. 460 depots WW of Nuke Waste “pending” relocation to a final destination.
French scientists are “still experimenting” with DEEP HOLES for storage.
BTW, in case you didn’t know …
Many of the older Hollywood film stars that “died of cancer”, had actually made westerns ca. 150 Km. away from the US Nuke testing zone.
Just a mouthful of sand from the area was enough to cause stomach cancer !
John Wayne (died), Maureen Ohara ( recovered ), and many others !
; )
France seems to be doing fine using it.
http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idINLDE60J1DR20100120
http://allafrica.com/stories/201001140880.html
GE trout w/ six-pack abs: http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/fish-with-six-pack-abs-could-benefit-aquaculture
Ewwww.
No £ collaspe
PS@Good talk from Denninger :
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/marketticker
2nd. Half , talks about :
# Comex & Gold
# SPVs
I mentioned the SPVs (Special Purpose Vehicles) over a year ago .. calling Bullshit !
Denninger explains it quite nicely !
I’ve read article on reusing nuclear waste
If this can be done I do not see a problem with using it. And the world will use nuclear anyway so new plants need to be based on solving the waste problem not rejecting it full stop. Or not researching reusing waste because greenies are against it, or there is more money in alternatives with Govt incentives.
And I understand the problem with finding honest scientists.
FS
Thanks
I will read later today
I am sorry if I stepped on some toe last nite
The Thing is I’ve personally got conned by lotta peeps
Who cond’nt move Where as I was Playing Golf playing 2 rounds a Day carrying me own set and we dont use carts
So tats 14 Km per day walkin playing along with 20 laps in the pool
And some of me over weight Ex friends dared call me un healthy
and also questioned me Wisdom @ times
also got conned to the tune of 25 K $ ie by these guys
So I am Weary of Everyone now days
All peeps are only ineterested in Thier own well being
Anyway I’ll avoid tat ttopic as well as Climate change
Anyway the fight is out there not here !!!!!!!!!!!!
Still got to catch the real Drug Runners the real buggers behind all the assissinations
Any good Documentry on Jon Lenon’s hushed up assisnation
Hic
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NuclearFastReactorsSA1205.pdf
Also really wondering about Ghandi’s assissination Now
Could the Bilderberg NWO nonsence be behind it
Cause After India Got Indipendecse the Britsh Empire Kinda started Tumbling OfC the new Enterants were the UN IMF WTO CFR etc
Hic
Why not thorium, Guiseppi?
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/348/
@ Bonn
I was just joshing with you Bonn…us chubbies are known for our sense of humor right?
I don’t know if this is been linked or not today
but decent article by Mike Whitney
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney03152010.html
@ StacyHerbert any chance y’all could get Whitney on you and Max’s show?
@ Charles
Wink Wink
Also Mad @ Jon Stewart and have been Boycotting his Site cause he Knows whats happening but Avoids pushing the Envelope
All he keeps saying is tat the powers in Washinton are too Great never does he define it for his Audience.Was suprised he had Peter Schiff on , But again he only takes a Wack at the fringe of the problem
And his Audience is Critical ferget tat Bill Oreily hes just a Lunatic
Hic
@ Max Keiser
Have ya got a Call frem Jon Stewrts Peeps ??
Tat Will be a Riot IMO
Hic
India and thorium-based nuclear fuel:
http://www.power-technology.com/features/feature1141/
http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/fnss/fulltext/te_1319_25.pdf
@Snoots
Yah, Thorium is fine as well…
But it still needs to be dug up and processed… plus the fact it’s not a self-sustaining reaction… So in the process exogenous energy is required (I imagine you could set-up some type of feedback where the reactor provides power for the beam)
It doesn’t matter though… Whether using Fast Reactors or Thorium “sub-critical” types, the point is, there IS a solution…
But the “terrorist” ooga-booga is what keeps the plans on the shelf…
(can’t let dem tewo’ists git dat Plootoneeum)
And ignorance, for that matter (mainly from TPTB and the greenie-nazis)
“During the course of these deliberations, Mr President, we heard the suggestion that countries that have not joined the NPT, should do so. In this context, I wish to reiterate that India is strongly committed to disarmament and non-proliferation. However, asking us to join the NPT is like tilting at windmills. India continues to regard the NPT as a deeply flawed and discriminatory treaty.
India which constitutes one-sixth of the global population is on a rapid economic growth path. A recent study has revealed that we will need to augment our electricity generation nearly ten-fold in the next four to five decades. This would be a significant fraction of global electricity generation. A large fraction of this energy coming from nuclear power would be of immense benefit, in the context of environment and sustainability concerns, for India as well as for the rest of the world. Nuclear energy is thus an important and inevitable option for India. As a part of realising this objective, we have been pursuing a self-reliant indigenous nuclear power programme. This programme is designed to realise our long term energy requirements utilising our vast thorium resources. This is of crucial importance to us as our uranium resources are modest.”
November 06, 2005
YECHURY IN UN GENERAL ASSEMBLY
India Can’t Join Discriminatory NPT
I suppose After yer Book comes out ya might get a Call
Hic
Might be too late by ten me tinks
lolololol
Hic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDeWmRtDop4
The climate crisis is a false flag. Climate debt is redistribution of wealth.
This is modern “Marxism” born of ideology not science.
Max and Stacy, you have been played, understand the real science, it does not support AGW or any climate crisis.
The truly scary thing is that very intelligent people believe this stuff. Mostly based in ideology and with no scientific understanding.
Lets look at the problem with the Greenhouse effect.
Abstract
The atmospheric greenhouse effect, an idea that many authors trace back to the
traditional works of Fourier (1824), Tyndall (1861), and Arrhenius (1896), and which
is still supported in global climatology, essentially describes a fictitious mechanism, in which a planetary atmosphere acts as a heat pump driven by an environment that is radiatively interacting with but radiatively equilibrated to the atmospheric system. Ac- cording to the second law of thermodynamics such a planetary machine can never exist.
Nevertheless, in almost all texts of global climatology and in a widespread secondary literature it is taken for granted that such mechanism is real and stands on a firm sci- entific foundation. In this paper the popular conjecture is analyzed and the underlying physical principles are clarified. By showing that (a) there are no common physical laws between the warming phenomenon in glass houses and the fictitious atmospheric green-house effects, (b) there are no calculations to determine an average surface temperature of a planet, (c) the frequently mentioned difference of 33 ◦ C is a meaningless number calculated wrongly, (d) the formulas of cavity radiation are used inappropriately, (e) the assumption of a radiative balance is unphysical, (f ) thermal conductivity and friction must not be set to zero, the atmospheric greenhouse conjecture is falsified.
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf
Essentially, it is a valid theory which can be demonstrated in a small glass experiment but it is a false leap to apply it to the complexities found in the atmosphere. So anyone claiming the greenhouse effect proves AGW has no clue what their talking about. Further to claim that bad oil companies deny it so it must be true is insane logic. No matter what you think of oil companies that is entirely irrelevant to AGW.
Your arguments for AGW don’t even pass a basic logic test.
@Bonn
I am sorry that people hurt your feelings yesterday. When someone criticizes someone like Michael Moore, they need argue with what he states, not with how he looks like. That’s just plain mean.
@Mep
I just picked up this magazine at our local book store called, Grow Veggies by Birds and Blooms. It has everything you need to know about growing veggies in hardiness zones in Canada and the US. It also has great recipes.
@All
I like to listen to Bob Chapman and Alex Jones (but Max and Stacy you’re still my favs and I get awesome info from ya’ll!) and they keep referring to the illuminati. I never really bought into it until I saw a program about the freemansons on the NatGeo channel. Creepy stuff. After the Catholic church exorcises the devil from the Vatican, they need to send the exorisits to the freemasons.
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/secrets-of-the-freemasons-2629/Overview#tab-Videos/02134_00
http://pd.cpim.org/2005/1106/11062005_yechury%27s%20speech.htm
link for yechury
Community Colleges Get Screwed for AHIP.
[snip]
The House health care bill paid for health care reform by taxing the wealthy. But Larry Summers doesn’t like to tax rich people, and the White House doesn’t want to be accused of “raising taxes.” Of course, they could just make up the money by including a public plan — even a weak one would save $25 billion.
Instead, the most economically vulnerable are having their futures hacked away to pay AHIP a 20% fee for doing nothing in the health care process. And Ben Nelson hasn’t even begun shaking the bill down for Nelnet, JP Morgan and Citigroup.
@ WL – doesnt matter : MAx & Stacy have financial interests in pushing the “climate change” agenda so no point trying to dissuade – they know obviously the science is faulty – they way 2 smart to think otherwise
here’s your lovely Monsanto :
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7716
@Guiseppi:
This is interesting:
http://www.pik-potsdam.de/research/research-domains/sustainable-solutions/japansymposium08/se12_kamei
A bizarre spin of the Wall Street crash as presented by 60 minutes. Hmmmmm!
http://www.scoopler.com/search/%22michael+lewis%22#&pk=http://www.businessinsider.com/60-minutes-interviews-michael-lewis-about-his-new-book-the-big-short-2010-3?utm_source=twitterfeed!!utm_medium=twitter&pt=Must See TV: Michael Lewis On 60 Minutes Discussing The Financial…
@ Ingrid – Awesome. I received a similarly named book, Grow Vegetables for Xmas, and absolutely love it. All kinds of info. in there about what can go wrong, pests & parasites, diseases, natural allies, etc. etc. I’m thinking about building a compost bin this spring. Don’t really have too much room to work with, but a bin could fit behind the garage.
@Rick M
Great article. Thanks for sharing. I also read the same thing recently. And after watching the special on the Freemasons, I’m crept out even more. What a wonderful world we live in!
@Alister
Just like George Soros running around claiming we must act immediately to address climate change as his fund buys up natural resources in Africa.
Stacy claims to be a Progressive Libertarian, their contradictions are beyond obvious.
Nobody on this comment board will ever change their views but it is necessary to point out the hypocrisy of confusing ideology propaganda and pseudoscience.
If you believe in AGW, at least ask yourself “How do I know?”
The AGW agenda has been pushed by the elite transnational political banking class, if you don’t see that you are fucking blind.
@Alister WL
I suggest that you are the 2 that have been played.
That you are the ones that would advocate the continued redistribution of wealth that we currently have.
Good of you fall in line with the prevailing propaganda though and then attempt to claim that we are being played.
Oh and here is my proof
Abstract
“Blah Blah Blah lie lie lie attack attack”
“Blah Blah Blah lie lie lie attack attack”
“Blah Blah Blah lie lie lie attack attack”
“More inane noise and more insane noise”
“More science but where is it?????????”
Still waiting for a credible link to one study by the
AAGW of actual science that supports their contentions
and not just attack other science.” Roll out the old
grade school argument that a closed system experiment
has no barring on the real world argument trick
pretend to have made a point argument. Big bad
oil company have no influence on policy. Money has no
influence on politics blah blah blah.
@wl agreed — id have no probs if ppl say “oh ye we dont believe the science behind agw is valid but we support the movement koz we have financial interests in green technology etc” — id have respect for them and appreciate that type of honesty very very much .. its just when ppl going along with patently silly science it annoys me !
@ WL
I will say this again and at any other of y’all American style Libertarians who may be listen….your philosophy is incoherent and it is openly false
y’all set forth to make a Normative claim connecting private property with core essence of being, going so far as to imply damage to private property or confiscation of even a moderate amount is to be viewed as one would view a physical assault or forced slavery….oh but please give me some of your property so I can protect my holdings…or please give me some of your property so I can mitigate disputes or assert my claim to ideas (i.e.copyright protection)
so do not come and say the others arguments are inconstant
I’m not gonna recognize your basic right to life if you are unwilling to guarantee me a minimal level that my loved ones will not fall below if I should die
@Gordo
That you are the ones that would advocate the continued redistribution of wealth that we currently have.
Why do you attempt a smear with a statement like this. It is completely false, but really expresses a lack of rational thought, instead you are ideologically driven. Confirmation bias is a tough thing to overcome.
80-85% of oil production is state owned “That does not prove or disprove AGW”
http://www.energyintel.com/DocumentDetail.asp?document_id=245527
I can only assume that you can now share with us all your proof of AGW….
The AGW agenda is an expansion of the political banker elite theft.
NOT A SOLUTION TO IT
The Tale of The Dollar
http://current.com/items/90172353_the-tale-of-the-dollar.htm
us canadians are mightily offended (?)
Monty Python
the Lumber Jack Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg
The Tale of the Dollar … on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzStSU_mvAY
@chArles
I don’t disagree with you in a sense but applying an American Libertarian label on anyone who disagrees with AGW is just a stretch. Strawman
To then attack that ideology has nothing to with CO2…
Its becoming sereal
Waterfall economics is coming true, I read it on the net lol lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uNLj28iOyg&feature=related
FOR EXAMPLE: !!!!!!!!!!
A person has ‘extreme debt’ if their debt to income ratio is greater than 66:1. For example, if they earn £10,000 and their debts are more than £660,000.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/credit-and-loans/dealing-with-debt/article.html?in_article_id=501069&in_page_id=62
X
Of course it’s Canada’s fault! That’s what happens when you listen to too much Celine Dion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOzG7bBylRo
Matt simmons interview:
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2009/11/13_Matthew_R._Simmons.html
There was a very interesting interview with Matt Simmons on Financial Sense on Aug. 21, 2009. He is investing in Ocean Energy in Maine. With windmills they are going to make ammonia to use as a liquid fuel.
http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/2009.html
Go to first part of 2d hour (the mp3 file says 3a I think) of August 21.
In 2007, Mr. Simmons founded The Ocean Energy Institute in Mid-Coast Maine. The Institute’s focus is to research and create renewable energy sources from all aspects of our oceans.
http://www.oceanenergy.org/
http://www.oceanenergy.org/Pickens_Plan_Plus_Jul_21_08_Ver_1-1.pdf
An event for sustainable energy in FL in June 2010.
http://www.energyocean.com/2009/
WELCOME TO ENERGYOCEAN 2010
EnergyOcean is the world’s leading event focusing on renewable and sustainable energy from the oceans and is the primary education platform and networking event for key players in the industry. Attendees will learn of the latest technological advances, investment opportunities, regulatory issues, and planned and implemented projects around the world.
http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2009/Simmons.html
Everything is in a holding pattern!
Mike
@ Ingrid
Nobody hurt me Feelings on ta Contrare (Spellings go figure)
I tot I hurt some peeps Feelings & ronron was right I was fast asleep by ten
lolololololol
Hic
I should have been clear in my argument
so here goes
I could care less what some of y’all who run around denying Global Warming think, say wish to argue….I truthfully gave up on those who will still make the case it ain’t happening, sorry preponderance of the evidence says there is a link….but how to address this is where there can be a legitimate debate.
I’m in the camp that we as a society can/should devote ourselves to trying to better the basic living standards of the world’s population, a redirecting of global efforts and material wealth towards that would yield greater benefits then rolling back some of the CO2 emissions (and to some of y’all on my side with accepting global Warming but would argue that it isn’t an either or…I fear it is)
no WL my statement was against this
“Stacy claims to be a Progressive Libertarian, their contradictions are beyond obvious.”
I still stand by my claim…. it is not a strawman argument to state that the ideology that I hear expressed by you in today’s and other comments is a reflection of American Style Libertarianism
if you are gonna question the intellectual consistency of another ‘s confessed belief system one need to be well aware of the inconstancy in one’s own
Well Of ta Poker Slow Monday guess some Wierd News Mid week ????
Hic
X
LOL There is actually a German version of the lumberjack song.
Mutti, das ist fur dich!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiVOG199X2c&NR=1
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/santelli-liesman-pay-view-preview-redux
@chArles
I never claimed to be a libertarian or an American style Libertarian, you are strawmanning…
Stacy did claim to be a Progressive Libertarian, fact.
Now we could argue over the definition of Progressive or Libertarian, but the context was CO2 and AGW, you of course have every right to your own opinion but the facts do not support AGW as I have researched them. Perhaps you should point all of the uninformed to the piece of research that has convinced you of AGW.
The fact that 80-85% of oil production is State owned does not support your diatribe against Libertarianism as you define it.
Actually, I don’t think we are that far apart, as the State is controlled by the Elites, increasing Statism only benefits them, not the Progressive utopia that some have bought into. Conversely, strict Libertarianism leads to Anarchy. The trick is finding the balance, we are have been fooled into extremes by ideological propaganda.
@chArles – ha ha, there is no use arguing with those that write AGW as if natural global warming is nothing to worry about! but they can provide their links to non-science based statements that the climate is not changing all they want; the world is moving forward without them; and climate disasters and change have always provided major evolutionary changes, so maybe something better will come out of it all; it might not include any human species, but the earth has gone through loads of mass extinctions in the past
Nothing New , but FWIW :
Former President Of Just Failed Park Avenue Bank Arrested On Bank Bribery, Embezzlement And Fraud Charges
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/president-just-failed-park-avenue-bank-arrested-bank-bribery-embezzlement-and-fraud-charges
temperatures are rising –
blindness of this derives from fear of responsibility and the cost involved
@Stacy HAHAHA back
Nobody denies climate change, it is the AGW that is not confirmed by science.
The solution you espouse only entrenches the Statism and elite contol and corruption via corporations. If your to blind to see it, so be it.
temps are rising – and it’s man made
you don’t need a weatherman to tell you which way the hot air from climate change holocaust deniers is blowing
@WL – dude, greenhouse gas effect is as easy to demonstrate as gravity; it is that basic and evidence can be found throughout our solar system
@ Ingrid
i agree it’s canada’s fault
Celine Dion still has a great set of pipes …
‘Titanic’ theme song – HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAPC3gwG_0&annotation_id=annotation_450221&feature=iv
@Stacy @Max : I think you two are trying to wind everybody up today….
@WL. hahaha. there tag teaming you.
@Max
And of course the temperature fluctuations are outside the bounds of natural variations, or at least you have the science to back that up.
Or you simply read the propaganda.
Stop confusing the issue., smearing those that do not accept AGW as a scientific fact may make you feel better but it does not prove that climate change is anything more than a natural phenomena.
I tell you man, those power skating lefties have warped you brain.
@Ingrid
News flash: Nobody in Canada listens to Celine Dion. Unless there’s people in Quebec who do–but who would know?–the ROC doesn’t really pay any attention to la belle province.
@Stacy
You have no clue what you are talking about re Greenhouse Gas theory application in a complex climate structure.
@13blackcats. i’ll fling you around 14 times. i’ll brake your jesus name. i’ll break something in here.
@WL – as I said the science of greenhouse gas effect is about as settled as the gravity effect; it is pretty simple physics of inputs, outputs and energy; you can see extreme greenhouse gas effect (at opposite extremes) on two of our neighbors, Venus and Mars
Libertarianism leads to Anarchy.
oh if that was the case…maybe I have misread several of your post…I’m getting intellectually lazy since the collapse of the capitalist system
so I will clear my side of the argument up….
I think it is pretty easily recognized that Humanity has had a drastic impact upon the globe, that a good chunk of this impact has happened in the last 500 years and is related to our extracting material resources out of the earth to increase our material wealth
I have no complaints that this has been a good thing because it has drastically increased the worlds population and our longevity, I just wish that this material resource extraction program would be more directed towards a more equitable distribution of improving living standards
here is a simple website that takes leading arguments against global warming and crushes them
http://www.youtube.com/user/greenman3610
global warming, what arguments persuaded you that it ain’t happening?
as to your link that a chunk of the global oil is in the hands of the State….are you suggesting that we turn these resources over to private hands? they already are in private hands operating under the rubric of the State..IMHO
I don’t know what the point was there…
I am an Anarchist of the anarcho-syndiclist variety…under my system I can not give you large scale industrialism, which is a necessity to service a large population with material wealth needed to insure greater living standards
Us Anarchist ran around in the 1900′s smashing Commies, we are quite good at this, they are better at killing us, but we had their number in debates…but we had no answer truthfully about how to deal with necessities like large scale resources acquisition (Water, Oil, mining, fishing, hunting)
allowing vital resources to be held by individual is dangerous, creation of some kind of cooperative ownership invites the state…so pick your poison
if the State can be put in the muzzle of participatory Democracy I know what dog I hunt with
now to alienate new friends again
I don’t much care for Libertarians, I have found them to be intellectual dishonest in all my past dealings with them, and their philosophy when push comes to shove is that of a spoiled child “MINE MINE MINE MINE”
also I don’t much care for Progressives, I think they are middle class folks with a guilty conscious…”.Nothing wrong with this economic system, but I don’t like hungry people.” Uption Sinclair agrees with me “Jungle” was about exploitation of the immigrant working class…all the middle class folks were oblivious to that….so we get food standards and not labor standards…there are kids in mines, we got to get em out, ban child labor increase household poverty, don’t address the economics that lead to the problem…only fix the things that bother one’s conscious couldn’t be the fundamentals of the economic system that caused these things
@Stacy
I do not the deny the Greenhouse Gas Effect as a theory. It is the application of that theory to a complex climate with feedbacks and still unknown variables that has distorted and fostered a false sense of “settled science”.
If you actually read the science behind this stuff, you will find a set of assumptions built on correlations and theory to draw conclusions.
To claim that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and increasing it causes global warming is the most juvenile expression of science there can be. It distorts and flies in the face of basic thermaldynamics.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your ideology.
@Stacy: It’s all about carbon.
I don’t think that you could find anyone who would dispute that we are moving rapidly to resource depletion, and the best way to sustain resources is to reduce carbon consumption, as carbon is a basic element of almost all substances.
But the science of climate change, or global warming, or global cooling or whatever the latest fad is, is shaky science at best.
And the greenhouse gas effect is not proved. The most extensive study of this effect based upon detailed temperature measurements taken in the upper atmosphere over a 20 year period have verified that the warming effect in the lower atmosphere is not being replicated in the upper atmosphere. This is one of the fundamental tenets of the greenhouse effect and it is not proved.
By the way, scientists have also speculated that the reason life is now extinct on Mars is that the CO2 produced by extensive volcanic activity escaped the atmosphere. In other words, we would not be able to survive on earth without the layer of CO2 that protects us all.
And finally there are two tenants to valid scientific research (1) that experimental data is released to all for examination, and (2) that the experimental work can be replicated. Neither of these tenets are applicable to the bulk of the climate research, as was recently exposed.
Remember cold fusion?
@chArles
You know I agree with you, except I said STRICT libertarianism as in the extreme.
I do not suggest that the oil production be given to the private sector but used that 80-85% fact as a retort to those blaming the private sector. It is the State elite collusion that is the problem.
Otherwise my only disagreement would be the science behind AGW, it has not been proven.
@ 13black
re: nobody listens to Celine Dion
“Céline Dion is set to return to Las Vegas in March 2011 for a three-year residency at The Colosseum at Caesars Palace resort. Tickets for the first 54 performances, scheduled from March 15 through August 14, 2011, go on sale Friday, February 12, 2010 at 10:00am PST.
Dion previously performed at Caesars Palace with her show A New Day, which routinely sold out during its five-year run from 2003 to 2007. The singer will return to the venue with a new show inspired by “the romance of classic Hollywood movies” and featuring an orchestra, band, and new visual presentation.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/cline-dion-to-return-to-las-vegas-for-threeyear-residency-1896418.html
Let us pray.
Oh, Global manipulators. We are gathered here today to pray for the ‘deniers’ of our faith: the one true faith:
Borne of the IPCC
Suffered under Copenhagen
Was recently defined by climategate: dead and buried
Yet arose from the Dead.
To sit at the right hand of the new reserve system. To rule over the righteous (god bless we the bless-ed) and the unrighteous (climate change holocaust deniers).
To reappropriate wealth for the poor via theft (Just like George Soros running around claiming we must act immediately to address climate change as his fund buys up natural resources in Africa).
To sanction the bread of knowledge to the willing (he world is moving forward without them; and climate disasters and change have always provided major evolutionary changes).
That heaven above may meet earth beneath in a just and righteous realm (i agree it’s canada’s fault)
Elite NWO from this day forth and even forever.
amen.
@ronron
I don’t think anyone in this country can deny that Celine has become an ersatz Anne Murray wishing against all hope to be as popular as Rita MacNeil.
http://www.ritamacneil.com/
@x
You’ll notice I said “Canada”. Her popularity lies in Europe and Vegas. Here she’s a running joke.
@ronron
I don’t think anyone in this country can deny that Celine has become an ersatz Anne Murray wishing against all hope to be as popular as Rita MacNeil. heh
LOL. Alan Grayson recently called Sarah Palin a wild Alaskan dingbat!!!
@X
Yes, those damn Canadians. I think that the cold weather has frozen their brains and their feelings towards humanity!
(SHHHH! Don’t tell 13 black cats that we are Canadians, too)
@ frances snoot
that was funny…so thanks for the laugh
but let’s not forget that just G-ds demand we constantly question them
@maxkeiser:
What if one is an holocaust denier AND a climate change denier at the self-same time? Would that indicate a new term necessary other than “climate change holocaust deniers”. Would one need to say ” climate change holocaust denier as well as holocaust denier”, or does “climate change holocaust denier” just indicate the tome of all irrational thought via denial?
In tagging climate change deniers as holocaust deniers would there be a nuance of racist/bigot attached to the phraseology which paints a dark image to those scientists whose data is not consistent with the IPCC?
Could you please link the stone table from which you get your absolute truth? I’d like to see what else is written on it!
I wonder what F.A.Hayek would think of the bickering on this site?
Bork and Hayek on so-called “Intellectuals”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km0-La2gGt4
you can only understand in principle but not in detail
@RJ,
re: your non-warmist document, that is a document written primarily for political reasons, and was not peer-reviewed. It also doesn’t appear to cite the scientific literature so we have to take the author’s word for what is stated. The point is, if there was any valid scientific data to refute the ideas in this paper (that CO2 is increasing ocean acidity and potentially damaging ocean life), then it would be published. The top scientific journals (Nautre, Science etc) thrive on novelty and controversy, not hedgemony, and papers presenting evidence against climate change are published. They are far outweighed by the opposite though. If you search the internet you can easily find arguments quashing the statements made in your web page document.
it’s shame from the format of this blog that this answer will be buried far from your original statement. It’s difficult to have a conversation here unless you’re connected 24/7.
@x
Nothing says flame war more than a fight between Canadians over Celine—who btw doesn’t qualify as CRTC Canadian content(!)
@ you too Ingrid(!)
@13blackcats
There’s nothing more ugly than a bunch of dueling Canadians
@Guiseppe
LOL, when you wrote Bork and Hajek, for some reason I thought you meant the singer Bjork and the actress Thelma Hajek. Boy was I suprised when I saw a couple of old dudes talking.
@ Giuseppe Bagodonutti
listen to what Hayek argues there….I often believe the most damaging criticism of Conservative intellectuals are their own words….this is definitely a case in point…”just because you can’t prove it logical or using rationalism doesn’t mean it ain’t so”
that is faith speaking there…blind idolatry
@Giuseppe : Thx for the link, lots of interesting stuff there…
“If someone figures out how to escape the Easter Island scenario in any way they will be the true saviours of the world..” -MoEa
I suggest you check out “Critical Path,” by Buckminster Fuller. Unfortunately, it is currently out-of-print, but available free online at http://collections.stanford.edu/bucky/bin/page?forward=home if you register. You could probably also find it any any good library. Neither statist nor idealized libertarian solutions are going to solve our global problems. Fuller offers a common sense, non-ideological approach. Just be prepared for a dense read: he has an idiosyncratic tendency for run on sentences and laborious neologisms in his pursuit of precision. Together with “Grunch of Giants,” “Critical Path” should be in the library of anyone who wants to understand our collective dilemma and the potential ways to mitigate it.
For all those that would like a scientific point of view on CO2 in the atmosphere.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/GWReview_OISM150.pdf
RedZebra
Fear equals money and lots of it.
I just do not buy it any more. The elite use this as a means to extract money and manipulate their servants.
Good luck to them. Its a game and they play it well. But it’s a bit like grown ups (the elite) against trusting children.
@13blackcats. my best friends dad, newfoundlander would give us shit and say what i said earlier. i did not know what he was saying. hahaha
fling ya round this room 14 times. break your jesus name. break something in here.
ronron, if you’re in doubt what a newfie’s saying, always come back with: “holy shit he -it me right in the fark wit a rubber boot!”. It works every time.
@13blackcats. his name was buzz rafferty. long dead. cornflakes sumpin.
And to my brothers and sisters in Newfoundland…Screech for all! Salute!
a lot of canadians here. not M/A. he’s special. only kidding.
@13 black cats
Remember singing this Newfie song in school..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FODj93HT5tQ&feature=related
@Ingrid
Sure, anybody can sing like a newfie…but can you dance the part?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNCyddtqZEU
@ronron:
I think you’ll enjoy this
He sums the zeitgeist here spot on.. .
Oops!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Gu_8zhhmw&feature=channel
@Namarama. a straight shooting irish. love him. i’m sure he’s one of the boys on here.
@ronron and namarama
Ya’ll Irish?
My friends and I are planning a trip there after I visit my sister in Germany. Any recommendations?
@Ingred. don’t mention religion. ;_0
@Ingrid:
You’re spending far too time much on the internet my dear.
I’m Irish..
ronron is merley Canadian
haha
@Namarama. i resemble that remark.
@stacyherbert:
reply.
nice!
Oink
wow is the US growing a spine??
http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/14/the_petraeus_briefing_biden_s_embarrassment_is_not_the_whole_story
You Irish boys too afraid to show Canadian girls a good time?
you’re welcome Ingrid….this coming from another Canuck …..whose father was born in Dublin….yeah , Monsanto is scary and fits right in with the eugenicist crowd.I find it so amazing that most of the populace has become numb and sedentary to standing up for and demanding our rights.It’s ridiculous that we accept genetically modified foods that eradicate the nutritional value of the food and even poisons our system…..how insane is that ?