Stacy Summary: With guest, Kate Pickett.
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and very interesting post pohdinpa,maybe they should have you on next week
very interesting this week , thanks max and stacy
Oops, that was a major assumption from me – sorry. The thread was on topic and I think I was actually the most off topic..
Hmm.. By the time i go to comment the conversation is comepletely unrelated to the article – infact normally this is by the second comment..
Anyway, this is a nice story about Fortis (now Assurant Health) withdrawing insurance payouts to the most needy to help keep premiums down for its healthy customers:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62G2DO20100317
Quote:
‘Hamm [CEO] insisted before the committee that rescission was a necessary tool for Assurant and other health insurance companies to hold the cost of premiums down for other policyholders. Hamm asserted that rescission was “one of many protections supporting the affordability and viability of individual health insurance in the United States under our present system.” ‘
What a lovely system!
- We’ll cover you until you get ill but don’t you think becoming ill is unfair on all those healthy people whos premiums will now go up? Your selfishness is a burden on society! Go and die and save everyone some money… ‘
“why more equal societies almost always do better”
what is “better”, better at what, better at being more equal
This seems to be the same variable on both sides of the equation.
Sort of an empty premise like “hope and change”
Pickett’s analysis breaks down when the thousands of welfare feeders, whose wealth will be zero in the data set, have their wealth figures reflect the worth of the tax dollars spent on their well being. If you add the food stamps, free housing, medical care, education, transportation, to that zero and subtract the future liabilities of the tax payers from their own wealth, the figures would surely reflect a more accurate picture of the wealth distribution.
Taken to the extreme, if the government must tax away the entire wealth of the nation to pay future obligations, then nobody has anything. How’s that for equality?
Some people think that it is “better” to rely entirely on the government for one’s existence, hell I think it would be better if I could do nothing and get food stamps, housing assistance, free medical care, free transportation, free education etc. alas I cannot I have too much wealth. Some people think it’s “better” to work and exist above that poverty level.
How far above?
There are as many answers to that as there are people in the world.
The measure of the distribution of wealth is not the true measure of the outcome. The path of that wealth and how it ended there is the real story. If Mr. Mittal wasn’t providing something somebody wanted to buy at a price someone is willing pay while paying a wage someone is willing to work for, he would be a pauper. Now if he broke laws and illegally bought influence on that wealth path, he should be punished.
Because Pickett is a greenie, she sees know reason developed countries need more wealth, only undeveloped “poor” countries need more wealth, we can get by on what we have now or better yet less.
I’m sure she is also a carbon credit cheerleader, because that is consistent with a global wealth redistribution, from rich countries to poor countries. Again, add the global welfare to the poor countries’ wealth and subtract from the rich countries’ wealth and the inequities lessen. Be sure to include fair valuations for medical/chemical innovations that saved millions from small pox and malaria.
As in “climate scam”, I suspect a bit of “data manipulation” and omission were involved in these statistics. As I have written before, japan and the scandinavian countries do not have thousands of Mexicans in poor condition streaming into their heath (and economic) systems, skewing the statistics. Rich countries which practice wealth distribution through generous welfare programs attract the people most likely to use the programs. As long as the countries borders are secure they can get away with it. But if the borders are left open, collapse is ensured. The individual states of the US are a magnified example of this, since they legally cannot control the borders between states, we see socialist California collapse because the wealth has been taxed away or chased away because of overly generous “benefits”
And of course she doesn’t see any of those countries as socialist, because she is one. Alcoholics or addicts cannot recognize each other as such but they like each others company.
As at least one other comment has stated, this women is scary! She sounds so sincere and knowledgeable but underneath there seems to be a seething hatred of wealth in private hands.
Another comment or the same one asks why Max would have this woman on the show, it’s so obvious even a cave man would see it. with Pickett insinuating wealth inequity is bad and Max insinuating the wealthy got that way illegally, there is legal justification to confiscate the wealth and distribute it to the masses. In one big global greenie progressive circle jerk
“The challenge of the 21st century is to align the global economic system with the values and principles of a democratic and fair society. We are not looking to reformulate the old institutions but to create a new system which will guarantee a shared prosperity and well-being for all people.
The G-20 framework to deal with the current financial crisis is a step forward in the search for coordinated global responses by the international community. We should all aim now to engage other nations as well in a broader context, in a spirit of inclusiveness, in the pursuit of the common solutions that we all seek.”
http://www.socialistinternational.org/print.cfm?ArticleID=1993
“The Chair of the Commission Professor Joseph Stiglitz introduced the discussion, which covered the global social democratic response to the crisis. Considering the new phase of the crisis affecting emerging and developing countries and the urgency of the situation of many people around the world today, the Commission issued a message to the leaders of the G-20 calling for decisive international action.”
The social inequality movement is being forwarded by the World Bank who employ Joseph Stiglitz to teach communities about the new order which is being foisted upon the world, willing or no, by the G20 sovereign banks. The words ‘social cohesion’ will continue to replay as this factor seems to be the end result of the ‘equality pograms’ being forwarded by Stiglitz et.al. Stiglitz wants to redefine GDP with the subjective inclusion of ‘happiness/social cohesion’, and this unit is to be a part and parcel of the new reserve asset (if Zhou’s recommendations are adhered to).
Rich men are paying people like Stiglitz because they see the final solution for ‘social inequality’ within the context of a large pool of sovereign reserves to which they have personal access for future colonization of the poor.
Words mean nothing if the leaders of the movement are criminal: follow the trail of bloody tracks. One will discover genocides, governmental coups, violence, and negligence of responsibility to indigenous peoples for construction and miniing contracts, along with outright theft of resources.
It is the height of selfishness to proceed from a base of sovereign wealth in the pursuit of personal gain utilizing the rhetoric of social equality that these men are using: all for illicit gain. They mean to delete sovereign and individual choice for the common man in a world of communal function for their personal gain.
How anyone can call those that signal alarm at the madness coming out of Davos and the UN/World Bank as selfish is unfathomable.
Selfish are the men who stand to gain through deceit from Bretton Woods 2. Remember, Bretton Woods brought sovereign banking privilege, the IMF, the World Bank, and the dollar hegemony. Bretton Woods 2 seeks to deny common men liquidity through a viable currency and individual agency.
Slim richer than the central bankers like Rothschilds and Rockafellers?? doubt it…
..what’s the average retirement savings for residents of France??
and..the US would have a more equal society if they would close all the damn
military bases overseas and use that peace dividend to fund health care and education…
thats what I think!
I had a hedache and eyeache while reading the all comments. Gross ad hominem attacks and racism. I just am shaking my head. We are all grown ups. Speak and discuss like a grown up. If you cannot discuss without ad hominem and racist attack, STOP typing.
Sorry, for the double posting. My Canadian internet isn’t working very well. Damn Inequality! Eh?
Ah, now I get it! This comment stream makes absolutly no sense. A tower of Babble. No, wait, I haven’t read all the 228 comments. But the impression I have from the 29 or so comments I have read is that you all are full of yourselves and damn near nothing else. And NEOLIBRALISM! What in hell is that other than consecrated greed? Come on people, the woman makes a good point, SELFISHNESS IS BAD. Get it?
Doesn’t this women look like a fat Stacey? Who is more equal: Stacey Herbert or Kate Pickett?
Once again people or focusing on equality of result. (It’s probably unfair that this women eats twice as much as Stacey, and isn’t as skinny?)
Where’s the equality?
Doesn’t this women look like a fat Stacey? Who is more equal: Stacey Herbert or Kate Pickett?
Once again people or focusing on equality of result. (It’s probably unfair that this women eats twice as much as Stacey, and isn’t as skinny? Where’s the equality?
it’s all clear to me now…..this “nanny” site is a cultic devotion to the premise that Lao Tzu & Adam Smith are identical “expressions”…..East loses West…West loses East.
CHaRLES:
ONe Wonders whY you feel so THREATENED by dialogue. Is your wee little horsey handicapped? Would you like to ride on my sawhorsey? I don’t mind sharing if it will make you more cheerful.
@Mep:
If you’ll recall, I lay the blame at the sovereign Bretton Woods banks/institutions/ECB. The situation was provoked to usher in the new system. It is a matter of destroying the old to bring in the new. If there weren’t a new reserve system (ooooh what a handy solution) then the debt ball-crusher would be a bit of an equalizer. Unfortunately, the new system does away with liquidity for the many yet retains liquidity for the connected.
This is been catalogued within the news media as a reality coming upon us all.
I don’t think that is ‘dragging in the old horses’. The new reserve system is totally unyoked from our prior experience: at least within the context of western society.
I don’t agree that inequality is the root of the problem as that defines capital as the evil to be addressed. That was my major disagreement. The agenda is forwarding capital controls. The service will be to the Bretton Woods institutions as state-favored banks with sovereign immunity and currency control.
@ Alister – id say ur a uk resident in the academic industry whos a champagne socialist wrong on all accounts,
and . . .
ur moronic be quiet – unfortunately im made to listen to sentiments like u just expressed due to my humanities university degree ewwww yuck! – back to not reading commetns !
what are you, 2?! Stick your fingers in your ears and lalalalalalala all you want. Maybe while you occupy yourself shutting out all that you don’t understand and refuse to learn about, you can call up your alma mater and ask for a refund.
Getting back on topic, I’m pretty sure that the majority of people who look at inequality in the context of the larger economy would agree that the widening of inequality over the past decade is the result of the financialization of the global economy. (In the US, there was also the Bush tax cuts and the privatized wars.) Now, if economic growth was also due to financialization, then we have a big problem, because it means that growth has hit a wall. How can that kind of an economy be sustained if not via another bubble? How can the kind of inequalities that such an economy/society demands go on existing?
Just about everyone here comments about the impending police/surveillance state and loss of freedoms and liberties. I don’t get how some can’t see how that’s directly tied to the need of the few to protect themselves and the status quo from the rabble and various “have-nots.”
@ charles?
“the other side” ?? singular ? no plural? what if there r more than 2 sides to an issue? OH NOES >.<
@ Charles – Not offended. I get that some people chronically conflate speculation and opinion with facts and science, and then get all hot, bothered, and pissed off when their garbage can’t stand up to a real challenge.
@ Mep
the other side does so quickly engage in the ad hominiens and intellectual dishonesty
don’t take offense it is because they grew up in a society in which their precious little world view was seldom challenged, and thus when they trot out the old saw horses that wows their breathern and are quickly parried, they are a lost other than, strawman, misrepresentation of others arguements and attacks against the man/woman
Amnesty report condemns US death rates of women in childbirth 12 March 2010 (Guardian.UK) http://tinyurl.com/yblg7wr
you will become familiar with the word no.
@mep just read ur comment
“low” “common” “underfunded”
id say ur a uk resident in the academic industry whos a champagne socialist
ur moronic be quiet – unfortunately im made to listen to sentiments like u just expressed due to my humanities university degree ewwww yuck! – back to not reading commetns !
@ GGEES mep is an ideologue in this regard no point trying to communicate – like a person insisting a white wall is black – you cant dissuade them
@ GGees – Nobody is talking about perfect equality, which would = a Gini coefficient of 0. If you start with the assumption that the debate about inequality is a debate about how to create a system of complete equality, then it does become a “useless debate” pretty quick.
Once again a useless debate, at most showing how many enjoy mental masturbation. No society will ever be equal so long as nature and genetics roll the dice. The only thing that man can do is create a society based on the rule of law which protects and defends the individual liberty. Such a society will generally provide a better standard of living for all.
a level is good to 3%. wake the fuck up. you need a square.
@ Alister –
@ mep my exact point was to explain how unscientific the discipline “social/political science” is -wow and u call that anti-intellectual O.o LOL!
Really? Because it sounded like your point was to use the opinions you found of a whopping 2 sources to discredit Wilkinson and Pickett’s research.
Are you suggesting that economic inequality is something that cannot be measured? Because last I checked, anything that can be measured can have the scientific method applied to it.
If it makes you feel better, know that your low opinion of social science is not uncommon. Social science programs are notoriously underfunded for that very reason. It’s not exactly easy for anyone to capitalize off of social science research. (Which is part of the reason why so many sellouts decide to go into things like market research – where they can help others separate you from your money.)
@Snoot. you and @WL were fucking good last night. hahaha.
@chArles:
Oh, no. Not Pierce. Remember what Max said?
“climate deniers holocaust deniers”
To define the one, the margin must be maintained. It is inherent in society. Striations are how society gets it’s feet and walks about. It’s a matter of diction, yes, but diction with teeth.
@Max. hahaha. stay away from the fat chicks.
another brilliant episode. very interesting and lovely guest. thanks max and stacy!
@Frances….now that made me chuckle,…soooo cute ! : )
@ “Society is predicated on the marginalization of the other in defining the one”
I think this is more of a language problem predicated on binaries…which may not be entirely accurate description of language (even though it is the one I profess)…Peirce was working on tri-polar constructions of meaning before he died that western tradition hasn’t picked up on
let’s not forget the slave does gain an identity in that which he does and escapes from the binary trap that the master is eternally shackled to.
@Dedeoooo:
Here I be!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r577ytYTZM
@chArles,…..we work with the tools that are given,..unless you can rustle up something like this,.and I’ll join your gang!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru-xQac_sWw
@WL,..GEEZ,..place a warning next time,..I managed 30 seconds and puked up all over my cat!
“or they can seek to try to unburden the great multitude and aid them in the quest to be self actualized beings”
Maybe they don’t want to be self-actualized beings. Its sounds rather dodgy.
Air Berlin reduces orders for Boeing 787 aircraft 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/air-berlin-reduces-orders-for-boeing-787-aircraft-2010-03-16-64140
Most folk in western society, really do have a lot of choice in comparative terms
really?
they honestly and truly have choice?
guess this is the crux of the problem….I am definitely more of a determinist than you could ever be…and secondly you believe by the magic of “choice” the ethical ambivalence of some of the current system is absolved
@Frances,…In any system, there are those that work with the tools they are given, and some.
And there are those who constantly bleat and moan,..which one are you?
: )
BTW: If what ronron says is true,..fanks for stickin’ up for muah
Boston Scientific was cut to conviction sell from neutral by Goldman Sachs on the company’s announcement that it had stopped shipment and is retrieving inventory of all of implantable cardioverter defibrillators and cardiac resynchronization therapy defibrillators in the U.S.
Goldman said those devices accounted for about a fifth of the company’s profit, and that the impact will not just be lost sales as brand loyalty from physicians will be impacted.
St. Jude Medical [s stj] was taken off the conviction sell list but is still at sell, and Medtronic is still a neutral.
From: Boston Scientific cut to sell by Goldman Sachs 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/boston-scientific-cut-to-sell-by-goldman-sachs-2010-03-16
Society is predicated on the marginalization of the other in defining the one. How can society ever be just? The end of society is indicated by a bid from the intelligencia to forward equality without reason: the people tear down their own structures.
Civilization is inherently inequal. Inequality can never be eliminated for it acts as a structure within the ordinance of civil law and property deed. If we want true and everlasting equality we must donn the animal skins and forage amongst the wild, and even then the lions eat first.
What we want is a JUST society. A society where advancement is fair and equitably proportioned and not denied according to race or any subjective factor. Where capital is available according to a fair standard and regulated by an authority other than a sovereign bank acting in concert for an elite functionary.
Working from Kate’s point leads us to an end in which those on top have concolidated their control.
This discussion reminds me of….don’t know why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nQXVRjMoUE
Equal at what level? Hitler made most Germans pretty equal. Equally dead. Kim Jong il has made most North Koreans pretty equal too. Is true equality achievable? If not, what is Kate Pickets margin for error? This guest raises more questions than answers. I will have to read the book. What if the royalties from the book make her unequal? If she sells ten million copies, will she be more equal than others? And so it goes on. But I will read the book.
@chArles,..What’s the solution then,..big boy? : )
For me, I mean,..should I go on the farm and work the land to satisfy your lust for equilibrium,..
I would say,..most farmers love their work, and I’d just add to the supply and cut demand, forcing wages down and causing discontent,..huh!
Most folk in western society, really do have a lot of choice in comparative terms,.so it might be honorable for you to get off your high horse, now and again,..and go fetch me a coffee! ; /
@ frances snoot
I don’t think it is that complicated…western tradition has decried inequality as a toxic…it has reached this verdict by individuals unburdened by being yoked to the common wheel…all science can only advances when there is a significant large enough population that a “certain few” can unburden themselves from basic subsistence…
these “Intellectuals” have two chooses say there ain’t nothing wrong with this system…that it is the way it is out of merit or life sucks for some
or they can seek to try to unburden the great multitude and aid them in the quest to be self actualized beings
I know the system that grants me the material wealth and the luxury of time that is need for deeper understanding comes at a drastic cost to some…so wish to try and alleviate some of the burdens the system imposes on my benefactors and want to aid them in their own process of knowledge seeking
@DEdeo:
Well. Knowledge can be useful or not useful. I think you mean relevance to survival. And survival would be within the context of evolutionary selection. In which case: the fittest feed the weak to the lions.
In our world, the weak seem willing to stick their heads in the lions’ mouths in a bid to forward the agenda called “social justice”.
Hopefully, the resulting calamity will be short in duration. But how is one to stop someone that throws rocks at people for the right to calmly insert their head in the rapacious and drooling mouth?
@ Dedo
wrong little boy…that 7 year old was my Great grandfather, who was born to a woman who was sharecropping, who dies on him forcing him into the “kind” world of “equal opportunity” and loving embrace of free market idealouges…
life ain’t fair, one can’t just buckle down and put your back in it and so forth…
and you still failed to answer the basic idealogical point…in order for the knowledge base to advance some folk have to be freed up from working in those fields…what obligation those chosen few have to the great multitude is what is at question here
your refrain is “tough luck charlie” y’all just ain’t bright enough to be like me.
and proceeded to cloud the issue with “the poor will always be with us” nonsense….my refrain is not if they eat the rich
@chArles;
On the one hand you insist that the evidence of western civilization is one of the toxicity of inequality and on the other hand you call forth the intellectual pursuits created by the inequality of western civilization as solutions identifying the problematic called inequality within the context of what Mep terms “science”. So inequality has resulted in an answer funded by the same inequality. And the answer is going to be more inequality funded by the inequality that created the answers that delineated inequality as the contextual source of problems in an inequal society. How do I know?
The inevitablity of man in chasing his own tail in the pursuit of solutions.
Every elevation of the type “man” has hitherto been the work of an aristocratic society and so it will always be — a society believing in a long scale of gradations of rank and differences of worth among human beings, and requiring slavery in some form or other.
- Nietzsche, Chapter IX, Beyond Good and Evil.
Food for thought, ya’ll.
@charley,…tut, tut,..will you ever learn!
Already you make a prejudice comment against a man whom you know absolutely nothing about.
That seven year old boy you harp on about will either strive to learn more so he can look after his family comfortably, or he will just slump his shoulders and blame his lot on situations outside of him.
Two different attitude dude! go figure : )
@chArles
A little over the top aren’t you
“equal opportunity”
“opportunity?” don’t talk of opportunity when a 7 year old kid has to go out into the fields so his/her family doesn’t starve…Rawles got a lot of things wrong but his little mind game is a good starting place about how we should craft social institutions in a society…even Nozick concedes this
@chArles
I hear ya man but we are not equal
All we should expect is the equal opportunity for life liberty and happiness
With a captured government that’ll never happen…
@ Why is it, that a small percentage of any population strives for knowledge, and the rest don’t give a fk,..there in lyes the problem with equality/inequality,…
because OLE BLACK JOE HAS TO PICK COTTON so “WE” chosen few can engage in intellectual circle jerks….ever think that? that some one is feeding, clothing, housing you so you can engage in “Intellectual” pursuits?
and don’t regal me with how hard you work, you don’t otherwise you wouldn’t have had the free time to educate yourself…that education came at the cost of someone else taking a turn at the wheel of labor
(the snarkiness of this statement is a result of your condescension earlier in addressing me as “charley”)
@Alister
It was a retort to MEPs critique
I am really in to much pain to give this little debate my full attention….and the bastard in me knows it is pointless
a large swath of y’all have your comfortable little set ideologies…cool whatever narrative gets you through the day
we have over 2000+ years of intellectual tradition from the Hebraic to Hellenistic that formed Western thought that shows that inequality is a destructive force…is it a panacea?
ahhh uhmm wow got me there…No but truthfully no philosopher on my side of the battle line has ever made that case except for that Nazarene boy and he was given to rhetoric flourishes
Material inequality can be addressed by the society, in address this will it make all the baddie bads go away (racism, sexism, homophobia whatever and however else we can carve ourselves up)…No…but then we can engage in Civil discourse about the fact that some of us don’t like some of y’all…again I repeat we can’t have this conversation if one side is hungry
I don’t like the Government dog, but I ain’t gonna surrender a tool to protect myself against the few who wish me and my loved ones harm…just gonna put a better muzzle on it
One can say, “It’s complicated.” However, if one is unwilling to entertain the truth for more than 2 uncomfortable seconds, we will never solve unNATURAL, artifical inquality, which should be the true goal. Let’s not forget that there is NATURAL inequality among people, but I doubt it justifies the magnitude of Wall St pirate bonuses.We don’t want to fight evolution, however. I say, if you’re dumb enough to drive without a seatbelt, let’s not have the state intervene to save your stupid A.
Furthermore, in America, and most Western nations I imagine, you have the slave priest Zionist media consciously pushing for miscegenation NON-STOP. They indeed know the rules of human breeding, just look at Nazi Israel. They can’t help it though, since Egyptian and Roman masters forced them to instinctually reverse all sense of human values in order to survive.
@norcalkid,….if only it were that simple!,…wouldn’t all problems be fixed in an instant?
What team do you support
What’s your fav’ colour
What country do you belong to
Do you prefer black or white coffee (and I’m not being racist)
Do you prefer blonds or brunettes
etc, etc,..I think this is why the socialist brain chip totalitarian society is being pushed,…you know,..to do away with individuality and free thought,..yipeeeee : )
@WL this has really confused me – sincerely
-im pro science
- pro intellectual (what rational person wouldnt be !?)
@Frances,..Why is it, that a small percentage of any population strives for knowledge, and the rest don’t give a fk,..there in lyes the problem with equality/inequality,…
Ok, I rarely do this… but some of the comments have made me really pissed off.
Of what use is “Freedom” and “Liberty” when one is starving? Or so ill that one cannot function? Hmmm? To have true freedom and liberty, you have to have a population that is not pushed to the edge just to get by each day. Oh, sure, those that “have” will have their freedoms, and the rest of us are (debt or wage) slaves. What difference the kind of government (or lack thereof), if one goes to bed hungry every night? Think about it.
I have friends suffering because they cannot afford heath care. I had a friend die because he could not afford to see a doctor. Angry, hell, yes! Fuck the rich with a broomstick.
“And when the revolution comes, they will be the first up against the wall.” (paraphrase from “Hitchhiker’s Guide)
All the argument about governmental forms is useless. Either we are all in this together, or we all go down together. No one will be immune.
@Alister
I am trying to figure out what you are if you are anti-science and anti-intellectual
Anti-Elitist?
Mep, I’m sorry.
Your not a fan of post-structuralism, but I don’t take it personally!
@chArles
I don’t see the FDR analysis so compelling. There are too many variables involved.
Race is an indicator in social cohesion: this is a hard and bitter pill to swallow. Shall we say if we give people of color enough money we can overcome racism?
Money thrown at problems doesn’t make them go away. Money extracted from equations doesn’t make both sides equal.
The bevel indicator is skewed.
What is the end reticent from the beginning? The reticent end is capital control. It’s at the heart of all political ideology as this thread attests: whether capital control is good or ill.
On the one hand the voice ballies Ron Paul for crying for the need for free markets. Then the voice cries out that capital inequality is the root of all ill: yet free markets encourage capital inequality.
Well, if we want to get diction, the Bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
Now, I’m not a Bible thumper, but I’d say desire has some play in the equation. What is unfortunate is the desire of people for that which would change not: security in the context of an indicator that is static. The ideal is not attainable.
@chArles
Yes I see there is of course a role for government. IMO to level the playing field on behalf of its citizens. We all now it is essentially GOVERNMENT INC working for itself and its real shareholders, the Banksters and Special Interests. Until that is addressed, there is no way to adequately discuss the role of government. After reading about the history Progressivism, it is clear that it a veiled strategy to incrementally expand the State both from the political right and the left. This is not a left only deal. MEP
So, we get a crisis, usually created by the Government then a solution, more Government. We are incrementally enslaved by Government creep. Perhaps the French politicians remember the guillotine….
@ mep my exact point was to explain how unscientific the discipline “social/political science” is -wow and u call that anti-intellectual O.o LOL!
While I agree with this lady’s principal thesis, it’s more academic, cowardly garbage which willfully ignores half of reality in order to be polite.
Ready for some truth from an atheist since 9 years old?
In Norway, you have some of the best racial stock in the world, where every non-Muslim girl looks good enough to F. They’re smart and great.
In America, we have a huge underclass of blacks WHO WERE BRED FOR LOW IQ, this from a pool of Africans who, on par, weren’t the swiftest of the human race to begin with.
Furthermore, you have an army of people who are really truly slave rebels, in the Nietzschean sense, who will NEVER come up with the following idea:
Use human capital more efficiently, seek out underprivileged white boys with high IQs to learn science and engineering.
I can tell this lady is most likely married to a non-white, which is fine, but it shows what kind of relationship she had with her dad, and where she’s coming from.
there have NEVER been 2 equal entities in the history of the UNIVERSE….that’s a little more than a METAPHOR. Equality ===lack of differentiation===NO CONTRADICTIONS…..===TOTALITARIANISM.
Organization is NOT Order….rather, the lack thereof.
Uniformity is NOT Unity…..rather, the lack thereof.
@ jim – That’s right, bring nothing at all to the table and then attack me because you have nothing to offer. My comment was in response to one of Mother Earth’s. Don’t worry about context or anything like that, though. Point out whatever words push your emotional buttons and then move right along!
You guys are killing me today.
the elites under FDR had the fear of g-d placed in them so threw enough bennies to the great unwashed to keep em pacified…then when America reached its economic tether around 1972 they started rolling them back
Mep…pouts & whines all day…then grieves the demise Or dispatch of the SECULAR STATE…there is no Hope.
I quantify that by comparing the statical data on poverty, deaths, homelessness, unemployment, education, home acquisition and other tangible measurable data before FDR and after but before the roll back started in the mid 60′s
@ Mother Earth – Re: religion and the dismantling of the secular state, have you heard the news about Texas’ curriculum changes yet?
@Mep:
What good are they, Mep?
It’s like studying whether it’s better to have two arms to having one. And then deciding that societies ills are caused because the two-armed people have advantage over the one-armed people. Then chopping off the arms of the two-armed people to maintain equality.
But, mind you this is the kicker, there are still two-armed people! Those that chopped and those that paid the choppers and the study-crew.
Please, delineate my misunderstanding here.
What good are they?
are you referencing my comment? WL?
the size and scope of government is a concern for us anti-statist….but to view all expansions the same is folly…one directed towards redistribution of resources to lessen inequality, ignorance, sickness would yield one form of society…while a redistribution system geared towards maintaining those present inequalities while seeking markets and resource acquisitions in the world would yield another type of society
“inequality lessen drastically after FDR’s new deal and only started back rising when the victories of the New Deal were rolled back”
Don’t know about that…how do really quantify that
If the government were accountable to the people you would have a point, but they work for themselves and the elites.
@Alister:
I’m sure I’m pleased not to make you sneeze.
@ Alilster – Impressive “analysis”: an economist (market fundamentalist? who knows!) criticizes Wilkinson and Pickett for mistaking correlation for causation, so that must mean that their research is flawed and their findings are completely baseless . . . all because it validates your own perception of Kate Pickett as a guest! (Sort of like how “Climate-Gate” and the opinions of Lord Monckton “disprove” climate change, huh?)
Further, another economist has a problem with the methodology used by Wilkinson and Pickett, so those two opinions combined REALLY discredit Wilkinson and Pickett’s research!!
LMAO
Oh, and WL:
@Alister
Nice catch there…
That is what I have been trying to say
Thanks for proving my suspicion that you are ANTI-SCIENCE and ANTI-INTELLECTUALISM! If you think that’s a “nice catch” that encapsulates what you’ve been trying to say . . . LMAO!
Sorry, but you guys are on crack.
And @ frances –
Well, now that you mention it…
If we are all poor, does that make the problem go away? Inequality studies are an attack on some rich people paid for by other rich people who’d like to be richer. They are lovely: like sitting at a cafe in the shade is lovely. But utterly useless unless they foment revolutions or laws to displace the ruling class of elite for another ruling class of elite. Or in the case of Bretton Woods (to maintain the starving and eliminate the other banking competition).
Holy shit! How ever to respond to that?! Probably best to leave it and let it stand alone in all of its splendor.
@Stacy,..Do you really think folk mistake a persons opinion for who they are?,…..
Don’t answer that,.it’s rhetorical! : )
Where’s Mep,…lol
frances the immediate above comment of yours was the nicest thing ive ever had the misfortune of reading ! (the misfortune bit was just a joke
)
@chArles:
It’s one thing to say that inequality is the ROOT of all of societies ills and another thing to say one welcome it. I don’t welcome inequality at all! But I don’t think inequality is the root of all the ills of society either.
We don’t have to all pull the boat together seeing as our minds and letter proceed from an individual perspective. Why do you lump me in a bowl with yurself like cold oatmeal because I was born here? I lived most of my life outside the contiguous US.
How does one explain life in the UK and its expansion of the State with a labour government?
I have never been there….
@ stacy
my country has been nursed on a steady diet of Sh&*( for a multitude of decades/ century plus INMHO), I wouldn’t be that surprised that “we” welcome inequality…we are the home of Calvinism
I mean come on….we got a guy on TV screaming against Social Justice
“WE” are happy serfs
@ WL
“More government will mean more inequity”
really? I along with Emma Goldman can conceive of total equality achieved in absolute rule of government (i.e. a Gulag) doesn’t mean I or Emma support such an idea….but to make such a state as greater government…greater inequality is Friedman talking points that are proven false by basic history
inequality lessen drastically after FDR’s new deal and only started back rising when the victories of the New Deal were rolled back
unfortunate fact for us anti-statist
@WL – it’s an interesting topic for debate; I am fortunate enough to be able to vote with my feet and just live where the quality of life gives me the most personal liberty (and not that I went about that with that ideology in mind, I just notice on reflection, that is why I have always moved locations); I don’t like being cctv’d everywhere, I don’t like the government trying to murder me or torturing and murdering others; I don’t like having to finance a military industrial complex, which I find as viscerally offensive as many seem to feel for universal healthcare (and yet there is almost zero debate in the US on whether citizens should be taxed to death to keep Halliburton and Blackwater happy); I don’t like being attacked by muggers and drunks either, I don’t like being cheated constantly whether by shopkeeper or parking attendant or insurance company; or forced to have to buy a depreciating asset like an automobile to get around . . . things like that, I don’t really look at it ideologically, I just move to where I can avoid the most of those things I don’t like
Anyhoots: Mep is purple too.
@Stacy:
I do appreciate your patience and allowing me to post here. I don’t think I indicated I didn’t like the guest. She is brilliant. I just disagree with her assertion.
My snooty demeanour did not result from income disparity but rather from a perspective born through the study of literature. I might have been lost in a library, but no such luck. I hope you do not take offense to any of my diatribes which, like pepper, may be avoided.
A snoot-swatcher might come in handy if I get too persnickity. But, Please. I’d rather avoid replying to Harry W. and have enjoyed my carefree postings aside from his rather intense gaze. I’m sure I do seem rather know-it-all, but an assertive manner has rewarded me with much learning! (thanks)
I’m almost leaning progressive, ‘cept I fall over. Perhaps I need a prop?
The inequality gap has risen in the US in the last ten years
The US government has grown its powers dramatically in the last ten years
Correlation or causation?
@stacy
Isn’t it problematic to focus on strict population inequality figures rather than a further breakdown.
Let’s compare government workers (50% higher) vs private sector. Would that conclude that more people should work for the government or less…
The inequity is in access to opportunity, the government is the enabler in that corrupted construct. While claiming to level the field they really pick winners and losers.
More government will mean more inequity.
Just like SEC, captured by the entity it is there to control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenberg
@ STACY
“The Problem of Our Future”: Alexander Dugin on Russia as a Political Subject (English subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkc46DHb7rM
get ur ft friends to translate the rest
@snoot – just making a simple observation that when all the countries pictured in green in this chart:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Gini_Coefficient_World_CIA_Report_2009.png
were awake and online, they liked the guest
and then when the US (purple in the chart) came online, they didn’t like the guest; in light of her topic of conversation, I’m sure the chart and the comments are related in some way
you can look at the comments yourself and see what you observe
Dear Francis
Again, sorry to bother you with reality but your being brings out from me a willingness to do so (consider it my benevolence); I’m afraid to explain to you that you cannot box an individual, any individual, into 1 word (i.e. “smart”, “nice”, “progressive”) and then assign to that 1 word as totally representative of the individual concerned an adjective similarly broad in respective totality
*********************Extremely telling INTERVIEW*****************************
dedicated to stacy as the brains behind it all ^^
Ace Greenberg Says Bernanke `Did a Great Job’ in Crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYgAq4Cbr08
really AN EXCEPTIONAL INTERVIEW – any one seriously interested in trying to comprehend our system and its agents must watch this..
These are two charts I think add to the discussion of how it is that the US gini co-efficient jumped from 40 to 45 in ten years:
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/04/gdp_per_family_versus_median_family_income.php
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-capacity-utilization-vs-employment-rate-2010-3
Obviously, some people don’t mind the spoils going to a smaller and smaller group and some maybe want to believe it is spontaneous and that it can happen without consequence; but others might want to discuss what they think caused this and what they think might be the consequences
@alister:
As a progressive, I’d ask what the new “church” will be that sees to the income disparity problematic under the new reserve system. We treat the state as the church now: but what happens with the demise of the nation/state?
Progressives are naive.
“Interestingly, as Americans wake up and come online, the balance of opinion has shifted dramatically on this guest”
Always those dratted Americans! Oh, and Goldman Sachs! Bah!
hi frances,
sorry to confuse you with non dogmatic pragmatism but i actually consider myself a “progressive” too
O.o
@Stacy – WOW if i do come to science po to study politics etc u really do need to hook me up with some work ; ur background friends must b very interesting ! mixing this and that, here and there, now its all done so there there there hehe – a strange humorous black irony to it all – i think bill hicks got it…
YOU DO A SHOW ON RT — NOW HERE IS A MAN TO INTERVIEW STACY !
Aleksandr Dugin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
originated the Eurasia Partty !!! LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia_Party
ppl like the guest and elwood r basically neo-marxists inadvertently benefiting fascistic tendencies in our system
The happiest people in world are apparently the Danes. I think we’ll move to Denmark instead!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shepBx2ogJo
“I’d infer that maybe you think social scientists–esp. those who study inequalities– are all evil progressives who want to shove their agendas down society’s throat.”
Well, now that you mention it…
If we are all poor, does that make the problem go away? Inequality studies are an attack on some rich people paid for by other rich people who’d like to be richer. They are lovely: like sitting at a cafe in the shade is lovely. But utterly useless unless they foment revolutions or laws to displace the ruling class of elite for another ruling class of elite. Or in the case of Bretton Woods (to maintain the starving and eliminate the other banking competition).
The only time in our human history where equality reigned was during the ape stage.
Interestingly, as Americans wake up and come online, the balance of opinion has shifted dramatically on this guest.
The US inequality measure has risen dramatically in the past ten years to Third World levels according to the CIA numbers, so perhaps the issue of inequality is a sensitive one there; especially as it is a matter that is also tied to race. Here is Democracy Now on that issue: http://www.democracynow.org/shows/2010/3/12
From my own experience of walking around in the street, I saw lots of violence in the US and UK and have seen a lot less in France. I moved to France from the UK partly due to this; it wasn’t from an ideological stand point or a taxation stand point, but from a personal liberty stand point; London (as well as most parts of Britain) are just no go areas from Thursday through Sunday and walking around after 8pm or so became increasingly menacing and I felt that was restricting my freedom and my liberty. (Los Angeles was even worse because I was lucky to escape with my life and they also had the extreme nickel and diming private corporations running the entire infrastructure system that I also felt infringed upon my liberty . . . and which the UK has now imported).
this is what happens when social SO CALLED “scientists” try and ACTUALLY involve scientific principles in their work – they end up retarding figures, principles and basic maths to suit their preconceived notions of their world — we have “social scientists” and “political scientists” … yet no “freedom scientists” — even though arguably along with the principles of austrian economics, the principles of liberty and freedom r literally the only things which can b ‘scientifically’ discussed by academics not ACTUALLY working in the scientific field per se
Income and wealth inequality is the root cause of financial instability. Capital, and the need for capital must be balanced for an economy to function stably. Over the past several decades capital accumulation has outpaced the demand for capital, largely due to reductions in top bracket tax rates and stagnation of middle class incomes. When too much capital is accumulated, rates of return on capital drop and capitalists seek ways to improve them through the use leverage. As the limits of leverage are reached, capitalists will look for ways to stimulate demand for credit. This can be done by relaxing the standards for issuing credit, and compensating by using techniques that hide risk.
@Alister
Nice catch there…
That is what I have been trying to say
Another Swedish Economist, Danne Nordling points out that while Wilkinson and Pickett rank Japan as the country with the highest income equality, all other sources rank Japan as being in the bottom of the OECD table.[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level:_Why_More_Equal_Societies_Almost_Always_Do_Better
so within roughly 30 seconds ive been able to find conclusive evidence seriously undermining the actual impartiality and objective legitimacy of some of the guests’ books core premises… nice gues.t..
@Mep
No, progressives that confuse cause and effect are evil..
regarding her book supposedly based “on 30 years of research” — Swedish welfare economist Andreas Bergh thinks that Wilkinson and Pickett mistake correlation for causation, and points to Sweden as an example where increased economic inequality has gone hand in hand with better health and better gender equality.[12]
Surprise Surprise! Exactly what i was thinking when hearing her speak…just another
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level:_Why_More_Equal_Societies_Almost_Always_Do_Better
@Mep:
All theory is based on ideology: especially social theory. It is useful but not objective. The point being that Kate Pickett took the ball and ran it to the solutions goalpost before the first quarter was even played. She insists that the bevel at the spirit level will be normative through an equality index amongst the citizens (the disparity between the poorest and the richest being mininal within a contiguous region). The is an ideal borne of some ideology: how does she figure in the balance of the bevel? The bevel indicator is not for individual happiness but for collective happiness using the Stiglitz nomer “social cohesion”. Indeed, Pickett indicates that political ideology is the driver for income inequality.
Kate is taking the symptom and declaring it the pathogen: “Inequality matters because it is the cause, the ROOT cause, of a whole range of health and social problems.”
Now, what problems? Is the problem that rich people don’t get enough to eat, or the right food? No, it’s the poor with limitations. Limitations to what? Capital of course. I mean, CAPITOL IDEA! If we take enough money from the rich, everyone will be equal. And to whom shall we distribute the money, capital? Well, the poor of course. Robin Hood 2.0! (God bless us if we continue to believe this naive story line).
To focus on income inequalities as the root cause of social disorder and problems is to indicate that capital is the driving force within a society to augment equality and that diversion of capital by state force is necessary to maintain a just and equitable society. Now, that sounds like ideology to me, Mep.
Here’s a perspective about the bevel at the spirit level and death as the balance:
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/poetry/soundings/bishop.htm
@Mother Earth
Yes of course, but the interpretations are done by humans who have their own “reality”. The point is to be critical of social science research and not give it the importance that it seems to garner. It can easily be co-opted and used to drive public discourse to benefit those who control it. Essentially propaganda. Ask Soros about that….
The medium is the message stuff, we all see the world from within our own biases.
Reading Social Science research is like reading the op-ed pages.
Confirmational Bias en masse
ohhh she is affiliating herself with the green party …..that explains a bit..
Absolutely shocking guest – what in god’s name led Max Stacy & their ppl to bring her on????? I’ve no idea…some of her quotes
for them ['developing' countries; opposed to "us" - 'developed' countries]‘ economic growth is still a pressing need” – what developed countries no longer need economic growth? WTF!? j
“our analysis is concerned with what you do when you’ve really got to the end of what economic growth can do for you” WTF??????????
reference her pathetic answer to maxs final question -
easily the worst guest ive ever seen max interview
Gotta go do a few things. Thanks for the chat @ y’all.
@ WL – Anti-science? Anti-intellectualism? Anti-anything that does not jibe with your worldview? But since you offer up anti-progressivism, I’d infer that maybe you think social scientists–esp. those who study inequalities– are all evil progressives who want to shove their agendas down society’s throat.
@snoots
Well I don’t know how this game will play out but the chess pieces are moving quickly..
Zero hour draws near..
U.S. might boost Iraq force structure during drawdown
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States may leave a stronger-than-expected force structure in northern Iraq if the situation requires, even as it reduces troops to targeted levels, a top U.S. general said on Tuesday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62F3KH20100316
@WL
I still think that if you count something you can be scientific about the numers. You can count christians and muslims, lesbians and police officers, all kinds of people, and then you can find causes for variations. I’m not so naive to assume a correlation is a cause / effect relation. How do you think physisist do it? Everybody uses observations in search of predictive laws under the hungry gaze of the lions of falsification and peer review, that’s science. It’s always the best knowledge, never the ‘truth’
A shocking guest
GOD I am an ignorant F*&&( today
“there ain’t know easy answers here”
obviously that should be “NO”
I blame the drugs
in America one had the State grow along side private power…and truthfully private power was always more dominant
so those of us who are leery of the state…have to make peace with this fact….we need that dog to sick on the other dog…yes private power holds the reigns of the state (always have… even in democratic societies, my side would argue that they legitimize the unbalance of power by making the multitude participate in their on serfdom) but we are in a stop gap situation here
to roll back power of the state is to surrender to the reign of the wealthy few directly
there ain’t know easy answers here
also….one needs to stop the bleeding, the extreme inequalities in the world and individual societies has to be addressed first before we can have a reasonable discourse on anything….don’t expect a lot of rational logical debates on the future of Breton Woods by people who are hungry and ignorant
@Mep
What ideological bent would that be?
Anti Progressivism?
IMO Progressivism is statism and exists on the left and right, check your history…
McCain is a Progressive…
Well Of ta Poker made 500 K last night Fake Chips ie.
Ideology is modern for MYTHOLOGY. Science is the Infallible POPE. Zeus with lots & lots of broadband….who needs lightening bolts anymore??….just drones for the drones.
@ Stacy
Just Click on Comments
Yer got ya Links mixed up in the Above Thread
I tink
Cannot comment
Hic
I find this religious talk very scary.. Demons invading the capital..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/16/texas-republican-goehmert_n_500805.html
Isn’t it simply the question what till croak first: The financail system or the secular government? The choice between peace and war?
Re: PMF
IRS Will Track Online Sellers’ Transactions Including PayPal
Starting next year, any bank or other payment settlement company that processes credit cards, debit cards, and electronic payments such as PayPal will have to issue information returns telling the IRS what merchants receive. The new returns are Form 1099-K, Merchant Card and Third-Party Payments.
Purpose of Reporting
The IRS believes that many online sellers fail to report their transactions. Some don’t report because they mistakenly believe that Internet sales are invisible. Others do so because they are trying to evade taxes.
Who’s Subject to Reporting
All merchants who accept payments through credit cards, debit cards, gift cards and PayPal will receive information returns telling them – and the IRS – the gross amount of the merchant card transactions. This will be broken down month by month. While the form uses the word “card,” the IRS has made it clear that this is interpreted broadly to include third-party network transactions (i.e., PayPal).
@WL:
Schumer
GAG
This is their final hour. That’s one nice thing about the demise of the dollar; no more starring role for Congress!
@ frances – Too bad that WL inserted an “ideological bent” in his statement of what he thinks about social science research.
I’d challenge anyone here to read 5-10 journal articles in the social sciences and point out “ideological bents.” You won’t find it. You think it’s in the interpretation? The interpretation is grounded in theory and prior research.
Further, the goal of research isn’t to come up with solutions. Sure, research can be used to build public policies, but the goal of social science is not to identify social problems and jump right to solutions. IF that was the case and every article pointed out problems and suggested solutions, then you’d have a reason to claim that it’s all about injecting political/ideological stances into public policy.
@Mep
Inequality is a symptom…
To address it we must understand the cause..and work on that.
Agenda driven policy will always corrupt this process
IMO.. The problem is a captured government..so expanding the state doesn’t address it.
@WL:
Do you see any “punishment” for China due to their refusal to go-along-with the Iranian sanctions in the UN Security Council. The acute need for funding in France especially would be greatly eased by an influx of uranium ore for processing. They see Iran as ‘stealing’ Iran’s own resource.
It is always termed stealing if the currency used is in their denominations. They want all the hog. These guys won’t be happy until they get to sit to table with their gentlemen’s club member sdr intact and off-limits to all ‘riffraff’.
WL made a good point with this:
“Social sciences are great at data collection, but the interpretation or attribution of cause and effect that open it up to ideological nuance”
Instead of solutions, we get symptoms of ideologies proferred as utopia-bents. It would be “nice” if everyone is equal! It would end the problem.
When the problem is furthered by pillaging to manage the inequalities.
@snoots
Here we go, I knew that weasel Krugman was front running, these fuckers use the same playbook over and over
Senate bill threatens stiff penalties on China
Members of the U.S. Congress on Tuesday threatened Beijing with duties on some of its exports if it fails to revalue its currency, pressuring the Obama administration to label China a currency manipulator.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62E2VC20100316
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nuance
Date: 1781
1 : a subtle distinction or variation
2 : a subtle quality : nicety
3 : sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)
Nuance could be termed the symptomatic expression of a ‘something’.
Frivolous nuance:
We need to attack the pathogenic agent, not the symptom. Discussing inequality as the pathogen is akin to declaring pain a terminal disease. Eliminate the pain, but the pathogen remains. Indeed, often the pathogen finds the weakened state of the host’s immune system a likely aide in its continued parasitical path to dominance.
On a more serious note, I think that if more people actually understood the concept of economic inequality and had a deep understanding of how it affects us all, we’d see much more action in the streets, and there would be far fewer people screaming about birth certificates, “death panels,” “socialism,” etc. In the US, especially, if people firmly understood how the majority of Americans have been getting seriously fucked by the system for the past 3 decades, we’d really be a political force to be reckoned with, and one that would be immune to demagogues and co-option by wealthy fucknuts & politicians who want only to divide, conquer, and keep the system the way it is.
frivolous “nuance”…you mean non-sense…or, nuisance…abra-cadabra….poof…..Merlins & Marjoes’ everywhere….like Bobby Rubin says; ‘reality is for losers”.
@Mep:
We need to get the knife away from the wielding fiend and take the pole out of our collective bums, Mep. The end of Bretton Woods 1 and 2 would service this need. Wall street services the sovereign banks. Go for the sovereigns, Mep.
The monetary authorities are creating a system of liquidity and value alien to the needs of the common
man.
Max indicated:
the run into the dollar – should ebb as it loses its reserve currency status
so – even though we’er talking about deflation – gold is going to keep going up
Will the dollar value index reflect the weakening state of the dollar as we enter deflation? Is this index no longer valuable? Will a rise in gold price correlate to an increase in gold value if the price is denominated in dollars?
http://smcinvestment.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/dollar-index-basket-of-currencies/
Why do we talk about inequality with a pole up our communal asses whilst the butcher stands sharpening the knife to slit our throats?
@ frances – why bother talking about anything at all “whilst the butcher stands sharpening the knife to slit our throats?” Why not either give up completely and commit mass suicide or storm Wall Street with assault rifles?
@ Stacy – Hilarious! I can remember watching that episode back in the day!
Off Topic: China & Japan have stopped buying treasuries:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601010&sid=avsB.BdWGdIE
FOR SALE : CALIFORNIA FRANCHISE TAX BOARD BUILDING
http://cbremarketing.com/ve/ZZn6160bt8571nv926465
When the state tax agency is selling it’s own building, it kinda tells you how good the people in government really are.
Apparently the California Kakistocracy is not stealing enough.
More likely, the California economy is not really as strong as the politicians and government agents say.
oops
Sorry for the repeat. Thunderstorms take out the connection frequently round here.
@Mep:
All money is credit now. Even if we end the Fed, the problem continues due to the international system of fiat money. But the end of the “paper dollar standard” will end this system. It is inevitable; it is planned; it is coming.
Why do we talk about inequality with a pole up our communal asses whilst the butcher stands sharpening the knife to slit our throats?
Inequality? We will be at subsistence level within the next few years. Then we’ll all be equal: and starving.
Sarkozy said the principal item for discussion is the reserve currency future. All our talk about inequality based upon the “paper dollar standard” is frivolous nuance.
Will no one RID the world of the £ !!!!
Mike
@Mep:
All money is credit now. Even if we end the Fed, the problem continues due to the international system of fiat money. But the end of the “paper dollar standard” will end this system. It is inevitable; it is planned; it is coming.
Why do we talk about inequality with a pole up our communal asses whilst the butcher stands sharpening the knife to slit our throats?
Inequality? We will be at subsistence level within the next few years. Then we’ll all be equal: and starving.
Sarkozy said the principal item for discussion is the reserve currency future. All our talk about inequality based upon the “paper dollar standard” is frivolous nuance.
Do we want to legislate more control to our ‘monetary authorities’? If we care about the poor, then the answer should be NO.
@ Mother Earth
statistical data in the social science never goes above a .4…while water boiling at 100 degrees Celsius at sea level resides around the .998 range
spent a good chunk of time pouring over psychological and sociological data…nothing worth knowing is ever found slightly higher than chance
and Plato destroyed his whole conception of “TRUTH” via the Forms in his work called Paremedies….then he went off his rocker and wrote something even more totalitarian than the Republic namely The Laws….before descending back into myth at the end
@chArles,..yeah,.okay,..keep your hair on !! : ),..whatever takes your fancy huh
@Dedo – sorry, but I have read it several times and I still don’t understand what you are trying to suggest or imply or declare
http://www.youtube.com/v/KlYZbvmgx8E&hl
yes one does tend to parrot their ideology
“Objectivity, Objectivity, objectivity….
go out read some Post Structuralism and come back and tell me the wonders of “objectivity”
don’t exist…all we have is extreme subjectivity and inter-subjectivity…the latter ends up always being “The Last Man Standing” version of truth while the form is pure egotism
can’t get out of the box to see what the box looks like
@Mother Earth
re Plato
perception as in managed
@ Dedo – I took your advice and went outside to calm down. Inequality is something that I’m very passionate about.
After the market collapse, pre- auto bailouts, some guy working on a survey (I think he might’ve actually been working for multiple organizations b/c his survey questions covered a range of unconnected issues) asked me what I thought was the root cause; the responses were something like: deregulation, people taking out mortgages that they couldn’t afford, and then two other things that I can’t recall now. My answer: widening economic inequality. He didn’t ask why I said that, but claimed that he jotted it down. And I still do believe that at the roots of this crisis is widening economic inequality.
Yes, deregulation, offshoring of jobs, fraudulent accounting, unpaid-for wars, depreciation of the dollar/erosion of purchasing power, crony capitalism, etc. all had a role to play. But, IMO, none of those things are really possible without an unjust system. By that I mean that with the shift in income and wealth comes a shift in power. And when income and wealth becomes more and more concentrated, so too does political power. That enables the banksters, insurance companies, agribusiness, military-industrial complex, etc. to get the policies, tax breaks, regulatory loopholes, legislation, etc. that they want, and that allows them to further monopolize industries, enrich themselves, concentrate even more wealth and power, etc.
Max says about capitalism that you can’t have it without capital. Well, we also can’t have a functioning, growing economy when $ is taken out of the hands of the people. The money supply was shrunk in the 1920s. This time, it’s credit. In both cases, a high degree of inequality is what allowed the people at the top to engage in risky business practices, unsound mergers, rampant speculation, etc. They had all of the money burning holes in their fricking pockets. And with it, they burned down the entire economy.
Max surprised me a little bit with the shift to talk of crimes against humanity, but the truth is that inequality kills. If you ever get the chance to thumb through that book of Wilkinson’s that I linked to, you can see the evidence in chart form.
@Mother Earth
Social sciences are great at data collection, but the interpretation or attribution of cause and effect that open it up to ideological nuance
@frances
touche
to all of the people concern please forgive me if I am a little grumpy…
Sick
but this comment struck my fancy
“Inequality isn’t, as stated earlier, a symptom the things people seem to be advocating”
No…not here because one knows fundamentally the dogs would turn on y’all with great force and venom….else where…where one finds such more hospitable y’all would be making the argument that “inequality” is a necessity
well my contention has always been that side of the argument advocate a system in which great disparities of wealth is a natural by product and the advocates don’t lose much sleep over it….Adam Smith supported his strain of Capitalism because he was adamant it would increase equality he was a man of the Enlightenment…if he lived long enough to read Marx doubt if he would’ve been as critical as his idolaters would hope.
I have never found that side of the debate intellectually honest in my past dealings with em
(why else would the Chicago School of Economics when they published a commemorative edition of his Wealth of Nations they redacted certain portions of his work, until they got called on it)
@WL
The gap between truth and perception..You mean between the ideal and the real? Go check Plato..
@EB
True but can we really define “science”
@WL:
Truth has as much backing it as the US dollar value.
@WL
Social science can use sound statistical methods as long as the parameters are well quantified. If you can count drug addicts you enter the realm of hard scientific facts if you say their number is higher in one area than another.
The liquidity trap that Krugman was indicating will be exacerbated by his tariff idea. The Chinese domestic market has its tail in a basel crack. Same/same for domestic lending in the US. But one cannot ask Krugman a question or he quips something about gods not deigning answers on the stupid.
First he proposes what he termed Keynesian stimulus. Then he indicates that the Chinese dumping US treasuries isn’t a problem.
The man see afar off but sells tickets to the train heading to the swamps. The liquidity trap is for everyone but the monetary authorities (sovereign G20 banks) and their elite membership. Gold off the books of those guys is declared a “nonmonetary asset”.
I would think that the issue at hand is how to burn those books. The sdr value is a derivative ot the US army/navy/marines and good-old boy duty to god and country. They could never have advanced to this stage without a obsequience born of deception.
The inability to distinguish between belief and science…
@chArles,..”I didn’t know one was required to have a “certain” perspective to engage in reasonable discussion”
Not really a perspective charley,. me ole chum, but a certain ability it seems.
The skill to objectively look at oneself and know where one’s “opinions” originate, it is of paramount importance to a real discussion on matter.
Folk tend to get wrapped up in their emotional attachment, and parrot their indoctrination,.. ring any bells,.? : )
@chArles
Yes, that gap between truth and perception is where evil lives.
@ WL
the whole world is subjective in nature….and truth can never be more than that which a preponderance of the evidence and opinion believe it to be…we can’t every truly know we are correct…but we for F#% sake know when we are wrong
All social science research is interpretive, to view it any other context is delusional.
amused…to sick to properly comment….also to sick to properly listen to show…but had to say it really is plug and play for a lot of posters on here
I didn’t know one was required to have a “certain” perspective to engage in reasonable discussion…but luckily for me I have the pretty little “philosophical and psychology” creditialization
I would state that it is helpful to be able to call to say yea…Carl Popper is right Plato was the first Totalitarian Communist….comes in handy to say Aristotle believed adamantly that great disparities in wealth inherently lead to destruction in a person , government and society.
to all of y’all new converts to snti-statism us Anarchist want a royalty for all y’all’s talking points….truthfully most on the red and black would wish y’all would quit it just doesn’t ring true coming out of y’all’s mouths
Anybody want to play Alamo?
@Carmen: LA? is that Lower Alabama?
@WL … But I am getting sick of Max kissing every guests ass.
Yes, I get that impression as well sometimes ( how’szat Stacy ?)
My earlier point was simply that Kate is not a member of the power elite and remarks about her could be a bit kinder IMO.
People posting here have the same rights to their opinions as Kate , and we are NOT the Oracle of truth by any means.
If Max could get a high-powered member of the Elite (PTB) as a guest, then the debate would be more lively and I wouldn’t feel inclined to “spare their feelings” as I do with more junior guest !
FWIW
The point being that Krugmans “neocon” conversion is a grave indicator that the ptb are moving to cut the yuan/dollar peg. The cut will be like the game crack the whip. Those not centrally connected will exit lateral to the system. The ‘redistribution’ will be more a culling/relocation of peoples as the lands are seized and the sustainable areas filled with the ‘willing’.
Willing=Don’t want to Starve.
Spinning empirical evidence with the proposal of a political ideology was my real contention,..you got that though, Stacy,.huh?
Inequality isn’t, as stated earlier, a symptom the things people seem to be advocating
@Stacy,
When I press on the video right bottom “Max takes offense to GS story” it goes to some LA site called eventful. I found the video on YT anyway. thanks
@Mep:
Until the sovereign banks are dismantled as governing agents and the currency is not handled by these same agents, I have a hard time seeing any “inequality” programs as being anything but the continued looting of people by those with government connections.
We are extremely close to a massive change, as Max indicated, with the end of the ‘dollar paper standard’ . Those within the context of power are seeing a willing intelligencia servicing their continued consolidations.
Stealing is stealing. It matters not whether the money is taken from a billionaire or a pauper. The action is wrong: and calling it redistribution completely kills incentive to work.
Within the context of reason, why don’t we half the salaries of our Congressional members? Take away Pelosi’s plane. And please: exit all wars and close US bases overseas.
We don’t do those things because the politico serves international banking interests which utilize the US as a colonial venture.
How can we possible talk about inequalities with the colonization of Africa serviced by the EIB, ECB, IMF, WADB, et.al.?
The more power and control we cede to the sovereign Bretton Woods institutions and proxy .govs serving these elite members, the more inequality we will see thrust upon the world.
If there are a few thousand uber-god-rich elites and 2billion slaves: it is still income inequality.
Centralized, federalized control of resource ALWAYS leads to inequality. It’s baked in the cake: shall we dine?
@Phil /Germany
I don’t mind guests that have different views. You can learn more that way.
But I am getting sick of Max kissing every guests ass. He needs to challenge them on their ideas regardless of Maxs own ideology, would make a better show IMO. It is just come on my show and push your agenda…without a challenge.
Maxs interviews are the economic equivalent of Larry King
“What is your favourite colour?”
@Phil/Germany – au contraire; the questions and challenges are good; and I’m sure Kate and Richard’s book will have comprehensive details on their methodology and from where they collected data, etc.
@Mep … omg !
Poor old Kate, she wasn’t that bad .. c’mon !
I think we have to be a bit careful about how we treat Stacy’s guests, after all, imagine if they all got too scared to appear here !.. for fear of being verbally murdered !
@Mep,..Seems to help folk look at themselves when the finger is pointed,.is all,..don’t take me personally
Everyone on this site knows I’m a freakin’ wind up merchant,…soz,..: )
BTW Mep,..I agree,..AJ’s is a goon!
@ Dedo – Have you read research articles on inequality published in peer-reviewed journals? Have you read many of them?
On “being an ideologist,” that’s kind of a broad brush stroke, wouldn’t you say? What kind of an ideologist?
ideologist [ˌaɪdɪˈɒlədʒɪst]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a person who supports a particular ideology, esp a political theorist
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a person who studies an ideology or ideologies
3. a theorist or visionary Also called ideologue [ˈaɪdɪəˌlɒg]
@Mep,…Lol,..calm down,..I was only kidding,..it’s quite the skill to get a passionate debate going you know,..!
I guess if Kate Pickett appeared on the Alex Jones show and went off on a tirade about global warming being a hoax, then she would be taken seriously by the people here who were so turned off by her . . . even though A) she’s an epidemiologist, not a climate scientist, and B) those who write her off as being an “uncritical” spinmaster have no effing idea of what they’re talking about.
Apologies for the sharp-edged words, but I find it offensive that people who actually have an education and are credible in their fields are shit on while paranoid blowhards who have no real education and no idea of what they’re fucking talking about are hoisted on pedestals for “speaking the truth,” etc.
@Mep,..I’ve read a lot more than you seem to give credence,..for your info’ I’ve noticed you’re quite the ideologist, so to try and debate with someone with a philosophical background is pointless IMO ! : )
BTW: How’s the babe coming along,..?
It is quite obvious that the increasing disparity of wealth, that really started to take hold in the early 1980′s and beyond, would lead to a reduced consumption capacity in the general economy. To offset this, those who have money (aided by the Federal Reserve), loaned out that money to those who did not have it, in order to boost the consumption of the products of those who issued the loans. During this same time, unprecedented debt slave legislation was introduced so that these reckless loans could lead to an enslaved underclass. Wash, rinse and repeat…
@EB
Freedom and government are not reconcilable so I would say your intution is right, but at the same time you want to cooperate with others in cases where you have a shared interest, and in those cases you sacrifice some freedom so then your choice bcomes an uneccesary one, as long as you are able to understand why you should give up some freedom (for instance some money, material goods and effort) to partake in the cooperation. Sadly modenr society is not organized that way..
Which triggers your second remark, that power is vested in money. Yes it is, but that was not the intended function of money imho. Money was menat as an intermediary in a barter process. If you break through the silent agreement that everybody has to use (fiat) money in EXCHANGES of goods and services then, yes, you become powerfull. Only because that power is very conveniently available did governments allow it to be utilized, especially by the defrauding ractional banking practice (which hands power to banks based on you trusing them with your money)..
This clip seems to explain the order of things,..: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1hqPdn9QE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG5e1oaen-M
Wow . . . how to respond to the comments that Kate Pickett is an overgeneralizing propagandist whose ideas thrive only because she speaks to an “uncritical audience” ?
Couldn’t stop laughing when I read that, Dedo. Sorry. If you had more of a background on the subject of inequality, you’d definitely not be saying stuff like that. And if you’ve ever read the work of Richard Wilkinson, who co-authored the Spirit Level with Kate Pickett, you’d be embarrassed making such statements. Wilkinson is an incredible scholar. I own this book of his and have read it front to back. He certainly would not elect to work with a sloppy researcher.
@Dedo – as per above, the economists of OECD nations will mostly all have been taught to apply the same statistical lies to their data, so there is more likely to be a uniformity to their statistics regardless of whether they are lying or not as they are all applying the same lies
Dedo, I think that Mark Twain is often credited with that statement but if you check you may find that Disrali actually should be credited…
@WL
>> To blame capitalism is false, we never had it. Max blaming Neoclassical economics is a red herring as it existed in name only. It was corporate government collusion to screw the people.
Exactly. Accurate language matters (unless you have a populist agenda, of course).
The Daily Bell — Mercantilism
http://www.thedailybell.com/714/Mercantilism.html
‘Mercantilism is the use of the state to fulfill ones personal objectives and self interest. The use of the state, conflating private with public, allows the individual or small group to obtain clout that would otherwise not be feasible. Wherever there have been seats of power, there has been mercantilism which eventually the corrodes the process of the state and infuriates its citizens. The American exception was set up to counteract mercantilism by diffusing power in such a way that would be no one place that a mercantilist entity could find a forceful enough lever of power to pull. But over time the American system’s power has been concentrated nonetheless. Individuals running for federal and even state office are now willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to gain access to concentrations of power. The most prominent modern mercantilist movement, of course, is the long-term effort by the power elite to utilize Western governments for any one of a number global promotions.’
Kate Pickett’s book sounds fascinating from an anthropological point of view. I doubt it offers any solutions, almost certainly it doesn’t factor in how people are taxed (on their labour rather than land) as opposed to how much they are taxed i.e., the typical statist/socialist vs limited government nonsense paradigm that must be thoroughly debunked.
‘Great show today. “The Spirit Level” highlights the same point that Paul Krugman makes when he cites what he calls “The Great Compression”, this being the period between the Depression and up until the 70s when America was a more equitable society leading to greater prosperity for all.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/introducing-this-blog/
The great failure of unfettered Neo-Liberalism is that it seems to miss the key point that workers must ultimately have enough wealth as to also function as consumers in a healthy economy. It seems that for the last 25 years the majority of the population have had to depend on debt to maintain this role.
The US government system and founding principles as outlined in the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, Constitution etc, seem to have had a fatal flaw. That is: what money is and how is should be controlled. The framers, in hindsight of course, should have made it very clear on penalty of death that any group, individual, politician, etc who tried to usurp the currency should have been summarily executed…and this should have been made the highest criminal offence….
To gather data for the formation of a statistical analogy is, and has always been to suit a political agenda,..there are lies, damned lies,.and then there are statistics,….go figure missy!
Same old debates,….yaaaawn!,..
Where’s SG,.I need some stimulation : )
The root cause of inequality in ALL societies is speculation in the land market.
The Chaos Makers: The Dreamers & The Deceived by Fred Harrison (1997) (PDF)
http://renegadeeconomist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/the-chaos-makers.pdf
‘INSUFFICIENT attention has been paid to the ways in which the chaos makers in the land market shape our destinies. Land supply is in fixed supply in those places where people need to live, close to the opportunities for employment. …speculation in land pushes its price beyond affordable limits …instability manifests itself in myriad forms of conflict that torture the industrial economy (labour relations, unemployment, etc). — The treatment of rent as a public revenue would eliminate the acquisitive force behind the booms and busts. The fiscal reform proposed here would ensure that the short-term private interests of the individual would converge with the long-term interests of the community. This would enable people to plan the accumulation of savings over their earning lifecycle to the point where the price of capital would drop to very low levels: it would be at this point that poverty and unemployment would be permanently eliminated within a system of sustainable development.’
CHOICES:
Governance
FREEDOM (FREED FROM) TYRANNY (FORCED TO)
Economics
PRICE-DISCOVERY PRICE-FIXING
Society
TAX ON LAND TAX ON LABOUR
Kate has a point but confuses symptoms with causes.
As I see it the income gap is caused by collusion between the special interest groups, elites and government. Essentially favouring one class over another created the gap.
To blame capitalism is false, we never had it.
Max blaming Neoclassical economics is a red herring as it existed in name only. It was corporate government collusion to screw the people.
So, the solution proposed is increased Statism or Progressivism and state forced equality. Sorry, that is communism or marxism or whatever…
This doesn’t a address the problem, the state is captured by the elite banking class therefore you will be increasing their power and wealth. The answer is to recapture the government by the people and limit the government by making them accountable.
This is one the key problems with Progressive thought, they confuse symptoms with cause. There has never been Capitalism, it was always corrupt. to blame all problems on the Capitalism strawman and claim the answer is more Statism is Soros’s wet dream as it entrenches and expands his power.
Why do you think Soros funds all these Progressive groups?
Action reaction, false flag, you lose…
@Max, Can’t see how the $ is going to lose reserve currency status…the more deleveraging, the less likely the dollar will lose it’s status, no? It’s the other currencies that will be in trouble…
@EB – or it can be the uniformity of the data? and the common method of collecting and reporting that data? and perhaps by just looking at developed nations, you have less variables to have to consider like average wages? I think if I were organizing the research, I would do it that way
Some could argue that the USA is not yet a developed country, at least by population density…
yes yes yes
http://www.businessinsider.com/soc-gen-there-is-no-way-out-of-this-mess-but-massive-deleveraging-2010-3
more deleveraging on the way = more deflation
the run into the dollar – should ebb as it loses its reserve currency status
so – even though we’er talking about deflation – gold is going to keep going up
Michael Jackson poses a risk for Sony – Commentary: Is the King of Pop worth the big bucks? 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/michael-jackson-poses-a-risk-for-sony-2010-03-16
@Stacy: yes she was talking about ‘egalitarian’ societies. The message is common sense, but any time a researcher isolates their study to a small subset, in her case, the wealthy developed countries, you have to consider why. Her conclusions may not have been supported had all economies been considered…
@EB
well 100% tax would boost the gates foundations balance sheet for a few years.
BORING….& MEANINGLESS….yeh, I know….more Broadband will fix it.
I was surprised to see that Roosevelt tried to introduce an income tax of 100% on annual earnings greater than 100,000 USD. This would be several million in today’s purchasing power, I suppose. Perhaps this is the solution; to introduce a 100% tax on earnings above a certain level. Why benefit does Bill Gates, for example, derive from $ 50 billion, other than the absolute power that comes with controlling more money than most countries have in annual GDP?
@Stacy .. Thx for the update .
BTW .. my experiences with Sweden were in the early 70′s and early 80′s.
Things – of course – may have changed since then .
As to the suicide rates.. it was main-stream headlines at the time !
As to taxes .. my journalist girlfriend “boasted” that she was proud to pay 80% in income taxes !
U.S. lawmakers urge action on China yuan policy – Members of Congress up ante in push for appreciation 15 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-lawmakers-urge-action-on-china-yuan-policy-2010-03-15
As money represents the essence of power, then the key is the control of money. It seems to me therefore that the prime role of the government is simply to see that no single entity (including itself) is allowed to accumulate too much of it, as the currency of a country really belongs to the people anyway…
@EB – she says several times that it is equality that matters not how you get there
Here is a list as per gini co-efficient number: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_inc_equ_un_gin_ind-income-equality-un-gini-index
It’s a bit outdated as the US is far more unequal now than 40 as in the list above; here is the CIA world factbook showing that this number had jumped to 45 by 2007
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html
75 years of funny money
…
Martin Masse, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2010
Related Topics : Bank of Canada ; Austrian School
A good start to understanding the real nature of central banking is the libertarian bumper sticker saying “Don’t steal! The government hates competition.” The whole purpose of the bureaucratic machine called central bank is indeed to steal from us.
How does it do this? By constantly printing money (or, nowadays, creating it out of electronic bits on computers) and increasing the money supply, thereby creating inflation.
When you get to the Bank of Canada’s Web site, it says “We are Canada’s central bank. We work to preserve the value of money by keeping inflation low and stable.” Do a little search on the same Web site, however, and you discover that since the Bank started its operations in 1935, the dollar has lost about 94% of its value. A basket of goods and services that cost $100 in 1935 would cost $1600 today. That’s some preservation!…
…
http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/economy/story.html?id=2668127
Thank you Stacy for your reply
You do not believe the corruption the Russian State is sick.
Russian government and president do just the same the American does giving out billions of rubles/dollars to oligarchs and any already rich ones.
Russian bankers, sport officials, utility systems management etc receive billions but nothing is done to improve these areas or any other ones in fact so that they would work to the society in general, ordinary Russians, small and medium size businesses.
I’ve looked at the economic and political ‘ills’ that seem to surround us and it occurs to me that this is simply about the control of power. No single individual, group, corporation, institution or government entity should be allowed to gain too much…
I have thought about this a lot and cannot reconcile large government and freedom. The two are at opposite poles. The more government, the less freedom. Kate does not specifically advocate bigger, more intrusive government, but there are a lot of hints…
Dubai reportage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaVSATNfWuQ Maybe an interesting guest?
Google fiber foray produces good press, scant details – ‘Cisco written all over it’; Will the Internet giant use internally-designed gear? 16 March 2010, by John Letzing (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/google-to-test-ultra-high-speed-broadband-network-2010-02-10
@olga k – in this episode, we introduced the billionaire list (or at least the top five) not to criticize them (not in this episode anyway) but to highlight inequality and also the ‘decoupling’ theme of the developing world emerging from the financial collapse faster and stronger than the developed world; regardless, we mention oligarchs, including the Russian ones, all the time
@EB,..To look after ones neighbors is paramount in Friedmans philosophy, maybe some folks ideology gets in the way of rationale,…: )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N706FfABLbo
Hi Max and Stacy
It is sad that you discuss billionaires from Mexica India and USA but say nothing of Russian billionaires that became richer not on production but on oil, gas, metals or banking.
I wish you criticize Russian corruption on RussiaToday as well, as Russian government raises taxes, increases tariff of water, gas, electricity but bails out banks and reduces considerably export taxes on oil and gas.
Russian ruling elite is corrupted thru and thru. It would be nice to hear about it too.
Olga
Moscow, Russia
Topic Lehman Headlines:
Lehman fired whistle blower in June 2008: WSJ 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/yeotvrd
Former Merrill proprietary trader banned in U.K. 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/yl2ysca
Lehman and its affiliates file bankruptcy plan 15 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/y99gld6
Topic Headlines:
Last options backdating cases hitting snags – Let’s call the whole thing off 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/y8rll9s
Housing starts drop 5.9% to 575,000 rate – New Contruction Homes New Low 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/y85edoa
Is Oliver Stone’s new film a market-timing signal for the Crash of 2010? by Paul B. Farrell 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://tinyurl.com/ygaahvm
“All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.”
G. Orwell
Animal Farm
This is something that is supported by good common sense, but the possible solutions could ‘kill the patient’ rather than ‘cure the disease’. It is always in your own best interest to take good care of your neighbor, that is for sure…a concept that I think was lost upon Milton Friedman and his disciples…
@Phil/Germany – Kate is an epidemiologist and so looks at a variety of stats and what they might say about the overall health of the society; Harvard also recently did a study which showed pretty much the same thing that Kate’s research shows; though Harvard didn’t look at crime rates, they just looked at longevity and health; here is a list of suicide rates and Sweden is behind Korea and Japan which have some of the lowest personal income tax rates in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Also, perhaps Swedish suicide rate could have something to do with the lack of sunlight? I know suicide is always high in Finland too. And obviously Russia, which tops the suicide rate list.
Israel keep buying USD
100 M today.
http://bit.ly/cHmvTx
FEDs Working Undercover On Social Networking Sites!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd_4OSVrUIE
Shortest Fox News ever !
@Amandip Singh
The Naxalite insurgency seems an appropriate point in case to highlight the wealth-distribution imbalance issue. A counterpoint to the headline from Newsweek, “The Scary New Rich”
So what is the answer?
max slowly catching up to Don ‘Grapes’ Cherry
http://www.nhlsnipers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/doncherry_1024x768.jpg
@Phil /Germany
a) How do you explain that Sweden has ( or had ) the highest suicide rate in Europe … mainly due to highest taxes !
Yeah! Believe that and I’ve got you land for sale “… mainly due to highest taxes !”
There’s a High Suicide rate in Sweden cause some of them are ugly bored MTF’s who can’t appreciate the Swedish Landscape I guess! Or they drinik too little!
If you drink a lot in Sweden than you go bankrupt on the taxes. Because they wonna drink but can’t the commit suicide. That would argue for Quote:Phil /Germany: “highest suicide rate in Europe Mainly due to highest taxes”
Or the Swedish people always wanted to be a banker and if they can’t they commit suicide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVNPRm7y9xM
Everything is in a holding pattern
Mike
@Phil,..there’s a lot more “re”search that has been undertaken proving folks “anti” social behavior due to factors, other than inequality,..hence my comment of her broad strokes.
She seems to be talking to a mass of uninformed people, rather than critical minds.
Seems the order of the day,..nothing new in propaganda techniques
Mukesh Ambani and Anil(his brother)….may be the richest people….they have so much undisclosed income in real estate and other things.
They are the dirtiest players in the Indian market.
@Kate :
a) How do you explain that Sweden has ( or had ) the highest suicide rate in Europe … mainly due to highest taxes !
b) Sweden is “not” overpopulated … have you considered that ?
c) Have you ever watched Swedish made films or TV films ?
d) I presume you are talking about “mental” health.
On (c) …
I had a few Swedish girlfriends, and they all told me that Swedish men are very boring .. and prefer English or Italians ! Seeing the exported Swedish TV series that we get in Germany , they are GREAT sedatives before going to bed .. that is , if you actually get there without falling asleep !
The many Swedish men I know were “all” boring people who took themselves and “Sweden” very (too) seriously, i.e. uncritical / always praising “their” system.
One of my Swedish girlfriends was a Swedish State Radio Journalist working in the UK.
I witnessed how she twisted reports to make England look bad ( Scargill Miner’s strike etc. ).
The joke was that she loved England but always criticized it. When she was called back to Sweden , she cried like a baby ( because she didn’t want to leave )!
JMHO FWIW
PS: My visits to Sweden were almost like visiting the Eastern Block during the cold war era.. couldn’t wait to leave !
PPS: I don’t like to generalize, but that is “my” experience.
Housing starts drop 5.9% to 575,000 rate – Number of homes under construction falls to new low 16 March 2010 (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/housing-starts-drop-59-to-575000-rate-2010-03-16
Starts were down in the Northeast and South, but up in the Midwest and West.
Starts of single-family homes fell 0.6% to a 499,000 pace, while starts of large condos and apartment building plunged 43%.
Housing starts were up 0.2% compared with February 2009, the government reported. Starts are down about 75% from the peak in 2006.
The total number of starts obscures two separate markets. In the past year, starts of single-family homes are up 39%, while starts of multifamily units are down 41%. However, little has changed in the past six months in either market.
@sam,…it’s the quickest way to create criminals, and of course generate income,..quite the ruse!,..: )
Arundhati Roy on Naxalism
http://newswing.com/?p=3659
Is Stacey going to get new features?
Good show! I though Max had investigated the possibility of a humand rights case against the bankers already?
lol,..more equal societies do better!,..very good, and I’m sure that most of the population would agree. (not being as equal as they would like)
Kate Pickett seems to paint some broad strokes with her big clumsy brush me thinks,..but I suppose it gets the attention of the non-thunking populace.
And it’s great to see journalism at it’s best (non biased, and diverse, minus agenda),…Keep it up Max and Stacy,..love ya,..and fanks for unbanning muah! : )
great show guys,
Well, the good thing about mugs who live in countries unequal societies is that don’t have to suffer too long.
Labour have passed a new law for every day they have been in power. nothing like a bunch of failed lawyers making new laws.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7061148.ece
I have always wondered that if we are following the monetary system as it is being followed by US, will we be able to achieve the equal income growth and take all the social classes of India along in this economic growth.
The income and wealth gap has bread to several socio economic problems and one big problem is Naxal Movement in Central India
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15580130
Many intellectuals consider it a socio economic problem rather than law and order.
If officially Inflation is growing at this pace
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?Symbol=INR
http://www.xe.com/news/2010-03-15%2002:52:00.0/1012245.htm?c=1&t=
how long the high saving rate social setups can protect.
whenever i hear of Carlos Slim, i think of Memphis Slim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irXywhqP1ho
Great show Folks! Loads of Topic Insides. Great lesson from this Keiser Report :
MORE EQUAL SOCIETIES DO BETTER!
2nd
Nice tie Max!
1st!