Stacy Summary: Of the sort of mentality of the Kos left is really the peasant attitude that Matt Taibbi has written about and which the second link below suggests the health care legislation introduces (the post was written in December 2009, but is relevant for today).
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Yup, the progressive left should never be taken seriously because they are hypocrites and as much as they say they stand for social justice & human rights and all that other mambo jumbo, they really don’t care, they are so stupid they think that “coverage” equal “care”, “coverage doesn’t equal “care”, and “coverage” doesn’t equal “low costs high quality health care”, even the author himself contradicted himself by supporting it, I wonder if he would say the same thing if Bush or McCain had passed this same bill. No No No, Mother F*ck the progressive left, the only think the progressive lest care about is Gay rights, Finding more converts into the Gay life style, making sure the family breaks down & culture is pissed on, and a brand of feminism which literally treats women like imbecile children and by law give them the right to do whatever the F*ck they want with no consequences and no responsibilities what so ever, they can continue to feel like victims and enjoy that pleasure & sympathy that comes with being a victim, and making sure more & more people become Homosexuals & lesbians that is all the filthy progressive left in the USA cares about, they don’t give damn about anything else in this world. Not wars, not poverty, not healthcare not anything.
Nazi America, The corp. Gov. Hail “o” excuseee mee “O”
My letter to Dennis Kucinich:
So how did they get to you, Mr. Kucinich?
Did your opposition to Obama’s gift to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries start to waver when Rahm Emanuel went to the House Progressive Caucus a month ago and called you and your colleagues “a bunch of fucking retards” for not seeing the benefits (more campaign money) of voting for the bill the health care lobby drafted?
Maybe it was Mr. Obama’s letting you ride on Air Force One. Is that plane really cool?
Maybe Mr. Obama offered to create your ‘Department of Peace’, making you its first Secretary. If that’s the case, be sure to ask for an office with a window. Doing nothing all day gets pretty boring if you don’t at least have a window to look out.
In the press conference in which you announced your switching your vote you admitted that the bill is still a bad bill — as you have been telling everyone for months. You rationalized your new support for the bill on the grounds that a defeat for Obama’s health care bill would “delegitimize” Obama’s presidency. In other words, you think Obama’s presidency is legitimate and worthy of protection. That is an odd defense, coming from someone who sought to impeach Obama’s predecessor, Bush, because he started a couple of illegal wars, violated the Geneva Convention, and pushed through the civil liberties disaster called the PATRIOT Act. In case you haven’t noticed, Mr. Kucinich, the current president, the man whose ‘legitimacy’ you hope to preserve, is expanding Bush’s illegal wars into Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and even Colombia. There has been no congressional authorization for these illegal acts, either. Obama has also pledged to give the military and intelligence services free- reign when it comes to their treatment of ‘detainees’ (the Obama administration, consistent with the preceding administration, refuses to call prisoners taken in this war ‘prisoners of war’, because prisoners of war have rights under the Geneva Convention). AND (last but not least) Obama just pushed through a reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act (in addition to defending warrantless wiretapping of American citizens). In other words, Obama is doing all the same things that you thought warranted impeachment proceedings for Bush. But, when it comes to Obama, you throw away your integrity to defend him.
The PDA, the Progressive Caucus, etc. are the Democrats’ equivalent of the ‘Tea Party’.
Stacey is right to call the “Kos left” blogosphere peasant-minded. A more feckless pack of ineffectual losers could scarcely be imagined. They imagine they can make lasting incremental improvements by conceding their principles at every turn. I wonder how that would have worked for Dr. King? These people refuse to learn, so they are either masochists or morons – either way they richly deserve the abuse and disdain they regularly receive.
Here’s an example of a capricious ordinance:
“Another key clause has caused rather more argument – at least outside parliament, says our correspondent.
This is the creation of a new crime of psychological violence inside the home.
The bills’ supporters say it is important to recognise that actual violence against women is always preceded by psychological bullying, and that this too needs to be outlawed.
But many lawyers and professionals in the field are nervous, our corre
They say it will impossible to say at what point verbal abuse – for instance in an argument – suddenly becomes a criminal offence.
Critics argue the psychological violence clause is unlikely to make any practical improvement to the lives of women who suffer domestic violence.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8537591.stm
“When pragmatism tells us that there are no first principles, it not only disqualifies itself as the source of guidance and justification; it disqualifies the whole enterprise, at least in its more ambitious forms.”
Pragmatism saves us from lethal boredom and granulated assumptions.
I’ve got to be honest, upon clicking-through, what little I scanned didn’t particularly grab me.
Though this I noticed is a pertinent question:
“If a philosophy doesn’t have a real world payoff, what’s the use of it?”
Adam:
You surely didn’t find Fish a bore, did you?
@frances snoot
I feel it polite to respond to you. I don’t mind doing so while I’m online watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUP4gC_N6ww
Rather than get into yet another faux debate, I’d rather just say that pragmatism has been criticised as being relativistic in moral terms, and I very much agree. I’m sure there’s more to be said, but I don’t have the time to get into it.
So what’s left to ask you is, what do you want from me? It seems to me you’re playing a game called WIN and I’m playing a game called LEARN. So if you’re asking me to continue this exchange until such time as you’ve received your WIN, I kinda don’t want to unless you’re offering me some learn along the way. I’ll respond, but I’m really not engaged.
Have *I* made you angry? Are you looking for revenge?? I can’t imagine what I can do to satisfy you if that’s the case.
I feel like you’re forcing me into a role of your ‘enemy’ and that anything I say towards your argument (such that it is) you take as an attack on your person whether you explicitly say so or not.
I just want to move along until the next exchange hoping that it can be more productive.
Peace? Or at least a temporary halt in hostilities?
On to part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lH3qPxeC9s
@Adam:
Relativism or pragmatism? :
“Pragmatism’s basic move is to declare that the answers to these questions will not be found by identifying some transcendental universal and then conforming ourselves to its normative demands (like “Be ye perfect”). Rather, we must, and can, make do with the “ordinary aptitudes of human beings (ourselves) viewed within a generously Darwinized ecology, without transcendental, revelatory, or privileged presumptions of any kind.” Pragmatism “completely undermines any assurances, empirical or transcendental, that exceed the provisionality of what we may consensually construct (in our own time) as a workable conjecture about the way the world is.”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/pragmatisms-gift/#more-42151
Thanks for the link. According to my list, I read that article on the March 15th.
Apologies for not sticking around to read or properly respond to your comments.
The classification of “psychopathy” and the accompanying remedy will be decided by an arbiter. That is why I said the category was arbitrary. The condition is not prelated by scientific empiricism but by a category of neglect and an underlying premise of what constitutes ‘empathy’.
“The evidence came from brain scans of volunteers ranked according to their psychopathic traits through psychological testing.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jeSBZZ_cVO3ZbvCAoffAZXHxIzNQ
The science of correlation based upon arbitrary “traits” deemed unsavory?
The arbiter is the person holding the clippad and checking the ‘traits’.
Adam:
I learned something!
You don’t have the link.
For goodness sake!
// What you mean by x in the context of y, the actual argument. //
I can’t continue. No more replies to this thread.
Did we learn anything? Me, not really.
Thanks anyway.
“What do you mean by arbitary?”
decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary
Adam, Agnes left. To whom were you speaking? I’m sorry. She seems to pop up at odd times and leave oatmeal strewn about the threads. We are working with her here, but she has a problem with empathy. Perhaps a little more social cohesion in her community would ‘do the trick’.
Agnes insists she should be ‘left the hell alone’ to watch daytime television and play bingo. How can she find fulfillment or happiness in those activities? We are concerned and insist that she ‘come to terms’ with her errant conscience.
In her last session, she ranted about you. I’m sorry, Adam, she feels violence is fine. She likes the Green Bay Packers: her trailer is filled with memorabilia from prior games. She also beats her husband Abner regulary with the Reader’s Digest.
We appreciate your concern, and we are doing everything within our capability to return Agnes to her community as a productive and happy person.
from:
–those who know, care
I’m not very good with poetry. Excuse me for not reading in full that particular post.
I take it the spirit is to gloat at having identified something to get upset about?
You never fail to disappoint.
>> Good Lord. That is hyperbole. Declaring truth to be a set of dogmatic assertions is the domain of papal rule.
Equating my argument with a brutish religion. I accuse you of attacking my person and avoiding commited argument in general – which is the worst crime since it deprives both of us of our time.
“That is hyperbole.” This could be said about anything and everything. Relativism? You WIN?
You can do better. Or do you *categorise* encouragement as an ad hominem?
You’ve begun attacking my person, Adam.
“You never fail to disappoint.”
…………………
That’d be bingo, Agnes.
What?! Finally! I’ve been coming here for a year now, and I finally get to win.
Agnes, it’s not about winning.
What-erwe playin’ fur?
It’s about learning, Agnes. You don’t get anything for winning.
Well, Shoot-n-Tarnation. Them’s the brakes, ain’t they! I thought I was goin’ home with a new crockpot.
Agnes, Agnes. You never fail to disappoint.
What’s yur name, you uppity-coot?
Jim.
I thought yur name was Adam.
No, a few years have come and gone since those days were upon the earth. You poor barbaric woman. You need to learn some empathy.
I’ve got a mind to learn YOU somethin’. Playin’ this darn game fur nothing!
Not for nothing, Agnes. Life is a path: a journey: a laugh a minute.
I’m goin’ to home. Ya can keep this darn card and stop callin’ off them numbers. Dang-nabbit.
Learn to care! Learn to share, Agnes! Peace!
>> Please: show me the science behind your assertion concerning the category “psychopath”. The ruling is completely arbitrary, no?
What??
The science. You just linked me some ‘science’. Whether you question that particular methodology is up to you.
What do you mean by arbitary? Do you simply mean all science and knowledge is conditional and open to revision and refinement? Well, then, of course.
Category. Again, I care not for the definition of words only the actions those words are seeking to explain. Call the sun ‘knock-knock’ doesn’t prevent me predicting it’ll come up in the morning.
From my point of view, you are seeking towards relativism. It’s just not productive. You can WIN any debate by using it only because you’ve killed the debate.
I care only about learning not winning.
>> You’ve begun attacking my person, Adam.
Where? Demonstrate, otherwise you’ve just committed the very same crime.
>> You are inconsistent. If you demand solid science behind climate regulations you should hold the same criteria (solid science) for the designate ‘psychopathy’. It just stands to reason.
Science ‘proves’ a definition of a word.
I won’t hold my breath.
What is it with you and words, anyway? I mean that question with genuine curiosity.
You will find my consistency in empircism, not abstract reasoning, btw.
Just to be clear regarding climate, I want solid evidence not of policy but of the science, the empirical observable actions and interactions within the atmosphere.
Again, empiricism. Judging things by actions.
You’ve begun attacking my person, Adam. Calling my argument oatmeal is a whimpy response.
Please: show me the science behind your assertion concerning the category “psychopath”. The ruling is completely arbitrary, no?
>> Articulate a universal and absolute morality.
What?
I need a global government to stop myself being violent against others??
Of course, not!
A global government – and it’s likely coercive actions (for what else is a government for??) – would be the very definition of violence, a monopoly of violence no less.
I sincerely hope we’re reaching a common understanding with these lastest exchanges, I don’t want to waste my time playing a game called ‘WIN’.
Adam:
I’m sorry I disappoint you.
You are inconsistent. If you demand solid science behind climate regulations you should hold the same criteria (solid science) for the designate ‘psychopathy’. It just stands to reason.
>> Declaring truth to be a set of dogmatic assertions is the domain of papal rule.
What do you *mean*? Who declared ‘truth’?
Again with your need for relativism.
What? That I ‘declared’ violence to be immoral and said that a commitment to non-violence is a moral absolute, I’m invoking the powers of the papalcy??
What sort of “hyperbole” is that??
Is violence morally acceptable?
Yes or no?
Either doesn’t make it a ‘truth’.
Always (yes, many, many times) accusing people of invoking ‘the truth’? Sheesh!
Articulate a universal and absolute morality.
This requires global governance.
@ frances snoot
>> I’m not arguing…
No, you’re not arguing. You’re just making statements.
@frances snoot
>> Who declares what empathy is? The ‘conscious’ and ‘empathy’ cannot be categorized by science. They are metaphysical qualities.
Relativism is the last refuge of the damned.
You never fail to disappoint. Within a few back and forth exchanges you invoke some semantic schism to avoid making an argument that can be examined.
You argue against words, yet you contine to use them.
I’m not debating the reliable meaning of empathy with you — OBVIOUSLY NOT — since I’ve already established that I care not what any word means, but care only to guard against violence which I hold to be a moral absolute.
As I said, judge people by their actions. No amount of wordplay can absolve you of your responsibility to be part of that process – for your own protection and for the protection of others.
Frances, I like you, but not exchanging words with you. It’s frustrating for me when all I want to do is learn and all you seem to want to do is turn every potentially fruitful conversation into a soggy pile of semantic mush.
Obama has already established ‘precrime’. It’s called preventive detention: one of the founding pillars of our global democracy. And those who don’t agree with the tincture?
We’ll be removed to keep the rest of the world “safe”. Because the goal of “safe” is more important than protecting individual freedoms.
In this perfect world of equalized norms, the future citizen will need to be chipped to prevent identification difficulties.
Relativsim is the last refuge of the damned.
Good Lord. That is hyperbole.
I’m not arguing the need for laws based on principals agreed to by society. Declaring truth to be a set of dogmatic assertions is the domain of papal rule.
AdamC:
I’m against the naive assumption that preemptive detention is anything less than a violation of habeus corpus. Law is law is law. We don’t need state workers cleaning the streets of what they deem ‘future criminals’.
Empathy is a concept that rarely finds agreement. Stiglitz would declare himself empathetic. I would not.
“We are tallking about people with no conscience, no empathy.”
Declaring that a pool of people are born in this state is ridiculous. Who declares what empathy is?
The ‘conscious’ and ‘empathy’ cannot be categorized by science. They are metaphysical qualities.
@ frances snoot
>> Basically, those declared psychopaths don’t agree with the morality of the status quo.
This is a doctrine of relativism to which many people seem to believe in nowadays. Relativism is crime against morality because it enables hypocrisy which is the worst kind of ‘evil’: denying an abuse whilst the abuse is obviously happening. Relativsim is the last refuge of the damned.
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/feb/05/comment.themilitary
Great link.
I’m also concerned with scientific profiling. It’s aim is to establish precrime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precrime#Precrime
What to do when the technology is so inevitable?
Worse, what to do when the psychopaths themselves get to define what is normal and acceptable behaviour.?
Easy, actually.
Articulate a universal and absolute morality.
If someone should be deprived of their liberty only on the expectation of their future violence then obviously a real act of violence has just been committed.
You simply judge people by what they *do* do.
Precrime will eat itself under such clear-headed thinking.
no empathy? in what years have i seen this?
@frances snoot
I do believe there are MANY diagnositc tools.
We’re not talking about the ‘psychopaths’ of popculture entertainment: the crazed slasher types.
We are tallking about people with no conscience, no empathy.
This psychopathology can be identified neuro-scientifically, that is to say, rationally and empirically.
To my mind, it matters not what they are called, only what they do.
Violence is violence is violence.
I’m not sure what sensibility you’re trying to express. Are you against inaccurate terminology or against the reliable identification of violent/abuse/destructive tendancies? Or just concerned for needless discrimination? I share that general concern.
Obviously, if someone were to be identified as a psychopath but did no harm, then there’s no problem. And should they suffer needlessly for being labelled with this term? I’d hope not.
Mine is not a ‘mindless’, ‘knee-jerk’ prejudice.
For context:
The Trick of the Psychopath’s Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick- of-the-Psychopath-s-Trade-Make-Us-Believe-that-Evil-Comes-from-Others
I believe in this case it is more diagnostic and thus justified. The trouble these ‘people’ cause means they have to be identifiable to the wider community.
Yes, well. Someone tried that once and the gold star on the coat is still an item to make one shudder.
Basically, those declared psychopaths don’t agree with the morality of the status quo.
It’s the new buzzword for criminal: but it leaves us all ready to endure arbitrary judgements placed for “our safety”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/feb/05/comment.themilitary
AdamC:
The criteria for ‘psycopath’ are completely arbitrary.
@ccq
>> @Adam C It’s easy to confuse wishy washy with nothing.
Sharpen it up for me.
@frances snoot
>> The term ‘psychopath’ is also the use of a nominal exclusion.
You may say that. I would say you’re being relativistic to the certain harm of all.
I believe in this case it is more diagnostic and thus justified. The trouble these ‘people’ cause means they have to be identifiable to the wider community.
Basically, I believe you can only judge people by their actions.
Morality is universal and absolute.
Violence is violence is violence.
See? I don’t discriminate.
It’s hard to tell from this post which side you guys are on, on this issue. On this one, the progressives are right. People are being forced to buy private insurance they can’t afford to feather the nest of some corporation. It’s the height of serfdom.
@Snoot. my pleasure. hahahaa frank
Great link, ronron!
@Adam C It’s easy to confuse wishy washy with nothing.
sounds like sarcosy’s toast.
is this racism? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/mar/20/homelessness-mental-health
Adam C:
The term ‘psychopath’ is also the use of a nominal exclusion.
“Even given the choice to inact violence, why on earth would you choose to do so?”
Because it best suits the current compelling interest. In other words: because they can.
But you are disregarding acts of passion.
@AdamC. women too. have you flipped a filbert.
@frances snoot
Well, racism, religion and all other types of superstition don’t make any sense to me. Apologies for not replying directly to those issues, but I’m mostly willfully dismissive of them too the point that their words just don’t register.
>> What if all men are susceptible to violence irregardless of repression?
Women, too!
Violence is an act as well as a capability, though not a productive one.
And really that’s the point. Violence begets violence mostly because nobody reacts enthusiastically to being forced. This reveals itself in the passive-aggressive response of all slaves.
So violence begets violence which is both immoral and is counter-productive in every case.
So to answer your question with one of my own: Even given the choice to inact violence, why on earth would you choose to do so?
If I was to ask a psychopath this question I’m sure all I’d receive is a wry smile.
correction:
&feature=fvhl is a video from the featured list
About youtube links. The end of the link will sometimes have an appendix so that youtube can track how you arrived at the video. A couple of examples from your homepage on youtube:
&feature=sub is a video from your subcriptions
&feature=grec is a vidoe from the ‘recommended for you’
&feature=grec is a video from the featured list
&feature=popular is a video from the popular list
Ingrid’s video appears to have come from the popular list.
Well, Adam, I don’t think that-a-way. Systems of apartheid represent economic considerations and capital allocation usually. The masses accept the system through religious indoctrination (except in cases such as Palestine or South Africa where walled violence is utilized).
You separate the wheat from the chaff too readily. What if all men are susceptible to violence irregardless of repression?
@snoots
In high school,
What was your tribe or clique?
I was a floater, moved amongst all, they all thought I belonged to their group…..
@WL. don’t be spreading the truth about gold on an open thread.
@frances snoot
>> The exclusion: racist or family lines (as Stacy indicates bloodlines).
Yes, and in the spirit of EB above, I try to identify the principle behind the labelling. Most often it’s some kind of emotion evidenced by a lashing out that serves to act out against — or even reinact totally — some kind of repressed trauma. As these lashing outs become ritualised and ‘normalised’, they become somehow acceptable under an explanation called ideology. These ideological labellings get packaged and sold as political solutions to social problems, when in fact, they are alibis and excuses for ignoring individual pyschological problems.
Trouble is, your trauma and right/power to express it become relative to my trauma and right/power to express it. Hence the conservatives vs the democrats all fighting for control of government guns for the ‘glory’ of their respective causes: always the coercion of some group because what else could government violence possibly be FOR??
But there IS a universal morality. Violence for whatever reason is immoral. We know right from wrong.
This is the way to cut through all the bullshit. People are either for violence and thus immoral, or they are not – in all circumstances. Politics and ideology are just ways of avoiding an obvious and *increasingly* important question.
Looky, WL! Some items we can reference for the future: I mean when our little ‘church home’ goes viral:
http://i.pbase.com/u43/chammett/upload/27803608.Eccleasticaldisplaycopy.jpg
I’m thinking I like the robe on the left for you. You have been a stalwart soldier of the faith! You deserve it!
Gold is honest money is a slogan
HERETIC. WL, I suppose you will go on saying that Gold isn’t God’s Money next. Once you open the window the whole house comes falling down.
FIE!
@snoots
Placa youra hadsa on the keyborda and fayeel the powera of tha lorda.
Gold is honest money is a slogan
but as an insurance policy against a corrupt political tribe it is one that I have been collecting on for a decade.
@WL:
Well, I was waiting around for Sunday Service. Can’t mix it up with some pagan tribal ritual! Bring out that collection plate!
GOLD IS HONEST MONEY
Hallelujah, brother W. I feel the spirit!
EB
very true
Perhaps a higher level of humanity, discarding primal tribal instinct.
Unfortunately, that is the very minority
@EB
>> I found some time ago that one of the most liberating things that I’ve ever done was to consciously eliminate all ‘isms’ and ‘ists’ from my language (and thoughts)
Kinda like: Don’t hate the player, hate the game. I good thing to aim for, no doubt.
@AdamC:
I like what you have to say about race. Nominal exclusions serve only to divide. But there are distinctions within familial units. The crux of old power lay within advantaged ‘family trees’. Is the loss of family identity what is represented in the quilt here?
http://extraordinaryintelligence.com/files/2009/07/denver_airport_white_jews_christians.jpg
Slaves are not allowed a basis for belonging. The bastard scion is the proverbial despot. The Japanese worship their ancestors.
It is an interesting question. The need to find attachment in this life in the hopes to defer change.
Family plots in a cemetary.
All in a name.
The exclusion: racist or family lines (as Stacy indicates bloodlines).
@snoots
good question…
Who wears the pants?
Though tribes need not have a single chief, but rather shared experiences and values whether real, percieved or fabricated.
I don’t want to be a member of a tribe that would have me as a member…
Not sure where to post this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAZaUVl-O9k
‘When we delve into the historical record, we find that one of the first globalist technocrats to write about the ‘necessity’ of turning China into a socialist totalitarian system was Bertrand Russell, in his 1920s book, “The Problem of China”. He advocated that China, given its massive manpower, would be useful for labor and for promoting world totalitarian command & control socialism; and so, should be completely standardized by means of a communist revolution. Later, it would be propped up via trade agreements that would transfer production (factories, basically) from the West into Chinese territory. Therefore, China would become the manufacturing center for the world, and would, during the 21st century, assume a main role in world governance.
That is all in that 1920s book.’
Do I have to warn you the video is a snippet of a film by Alex Jones?
@WL : I found some time ago that one of the most liberating things that I’ve ever done was to consciously eliminate all ‘isms’ and ‘ists’ from my language (and thoughts). Suddenly there seems very little difference between me and just about everybody I meet, when it comes down to it. Highly recommended.
@WL:
If we’re a tribe is Max or Stacy the Chief?
And I wanna dispensation of some kind. I thought this was CHURCH!
i think the reason gold goes down on fridays so the afterhours traders make all the buys. am i being a philbert?
@Snoot. hahaha.
@Ingrid. i hate the recommended for you thing. i feel like i’m being watched.
You are, ronron.
Frank says “howdy”!
flutter flutter
at this risk of incurring Stacy’s wrath (she is the host, after all), i feel compelled to say that i find the recent misogynistic attacks by Jim against Naomi, and then Ingrid, to be infinitely more offensive than anything Brandon or Adam C have said
The USA used to be just messed up, but not it is going completely insane.
I suggest to everyone who doesn’t own real estate to consider going overseas. There are better places — much better places.
Racism, Statism, elitism, banksterism and all isms are formed through a natural innate human drive called tribalism, .
To affiliate with a group to coalesce power and control for the tribe is human nature. It is the elites that use that tribal belonging to distort and manipulate the human power structure.
Stacy left the US as she rejected that tribe. You also belong to more than 1 tribe as this comment board is a tribe. We have shared common values and experiences, though still disagree on some things.
As Adam C pointed out it is really about coercion, but sometimes you don’t even realize that you are being coerced along tribal lines. This empowers the elites.
for all the angst here in the comments you’d think the streets were flooded with a citizens revolt
I just don’t see the revolution coming
Americans don’t like to look at blood and the paper tigers on wall street know that, in fact they count on it.
the will to fight went out with indoor plumbing
what the people really need are lawyers – lots of um
secede.
Foreclosure crisis: A long, painful exit http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mortgage-modifications-spread-beyond-feds-2010-03-19?pagenumber=1
@stacyherbert
You’re right that you do have a moderation duty and thanks for pointing it out to me and thanks for taking on that duty, for who knows how much crap your have to deal with.
I would say, however, that your comment appeared to me to ‘entertain’ that element that so often serves as a proxy for racial violence: the concept of the nation state. Obviously there is confusion between race and nationhood because both concepts are entirely confusing because they are entirely irrational! There are no human races. Humans are a species. There are no nations, there are only land masses, and waaaay back the global land mass was a pangaea.
What I’m getting at, Stacy, is that you are partly invested in the idea of nations and it was that I was pointing out to you because I believe you to be smarter than that. I think I have the bad habit of expecting smart people to be universally smart and getting a bit irrate when they prove otherwise, at least in my estimation.
As for the racism, I don’t mind you being stern on those who encourage it because it’s the type of selective violence I must detest. I destest all violence, pretty much equally. No, I detest unacknowledged violence the most, that type of socialist hypocrisy that steals from the poor. Passive-aggressive violence. Anyway…
I’m dismayed by you thinking that I am or could supportive of racism/violence. But for your effort in protecting the harmony of this website, I don’t mind if you’ve overreacted and lumped me in with ‘that group’ by mistake. Obviously, my words and typing skills will exonerate me.
I respect your commitment to free speech here in any case.
@ronron
We are being watched…
That pop up really freaked me out!
Stacy I love my country and hate where it’s going those remarks were over the top. America’s decline is mainly due to it’s arrogance, greed, imperalism and the banksters. It also caused by up until now the population barely putting up a fight against the bankster elite especially the FED. Our founders warned us against central bankers. The whole game is rigged.
@ Stacy
You go girlfriend…
That is the reason why I blog here and not anywhere else. For example, although I really like what Alex Jones says, the racist comments on his web sites are such a huge turn off. And some of the comments are just so messed up. You would think that people would know better.
@Ingrid. i hate the recommended for you thing. i feel like i’m being watched.
OMG – Hilarious. I went to Youtube and the first thing that popped up under “Recommended for you was…unbelievable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-akyX3cQZYo&feature=popular
@Marc Authier
>> Most member of Stalin’s NKVD and KGB came from the mafia. Case closed about the state and the left love affair with the state.
I’ll reopen that case a little and reserve room for any other ‘actor’ who wishes to use violence to achieve their ends, for what else is a mafia than a collection of those who wish to gain for themselves the fruits of violence?
It’s violence that’s the problem, and almost ALL of us are complicit. Pointing at the mafia or the government (if you can see that far) doesn’t absolve us. Not one little bit.
Questions to ask yourself when you think you’re ‘above it all’ by chatting some fancy anti-statist philosophy in a forum or in the pub:
Am I being coerced? Am I receiving the fruits of coercion? Am I complicit in a system of violence?
@Adam C – I point it out because I do not want racist rants here because they immediately attract other racists, as you see in the other thread in which Davey Jones writes his own racist rant only a few moments after Brandon http://maxkeiser.com/2010/03/20/climate-china/#comments If you don’t mind racist rants, they you are by all means welcome to invite them to visit your site instead.
I wish that Kucinich would just shut up. Now he’s comparing the passing of the health care bill to the passing of civil rights legislation. Even Obama is saying that. Here’s a great article on how you can’t compare the two: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/03/health_care_isnt_like_civil_ri.html
@stacyherbert
Thank you (*sarcasm*) for so wilfully ignoring the substance of my argument.
However you deem Brandon or anyone else as racist is of no concern to me because I washed my hands of his views (whatever they may actually be) and I don’t/can’t believe in the idea of race anyway. That doesn’t extricate me from the general racial argument, however, because it’s just yet another pathetic (but really no more so than any other) excuse for violence of which I am against.
I have no reason to be paranoid. (I’m not from the US, but I have US blood, if I can temporarily believe that the idea that nationhood means anything.) I applaud your internationalism. Why not?
However, I’m not impressed by people flouting their ego in order to condemn other people without any real or rational evidence. You are or could/should be above the criticism you ‘lashed out’ to Brandon. If he’s a racist, his own words have surely condemned him. What did really you achieve by pointing it out? Anyway, race isn’t the issue.
Don’t get me wrong, I do get the entertainment value of your rantings. But I can tell the difference between a performance and psychological ‘issue’. It’s when an obviously psychological issue becomes an ‘ideological’ one that you can trust me to throw it back in your face and tell you to deal with it – and I invite you to do the same. I’m certainly not perfect, but I know as much I refuse to avoid the issue by hiding under false moral virtue and all sorts of fancy irrational posturing.
Because this exchange has now got a bit muddled, let me be clear that my point was to point out both yours and Brandons irrational belief in the idea of the ‘nation’.
Irrational ways of thinking should be highlighted and challenged if you want to understand the truth about the world, don’t you think?
testing
Four more bank failures bring 2010 tally to 37 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/four-more-bank-failures-bring-2010-tally-to-37-2010-03-19
Real Deep Discussions WOW
Hic
But still 75 % off
Hic
From a 3rd world Country boy
Boy = ya freakin 34 yee Ashole Bonn u a Man an Adult
lolololol
hic
@Adam C
And you wouldn’t be surprised at all by the number of gangsters and mafiosi employed by AIG, Godamn Sachs and the shitbags at the CIA. In Europe ALL the bloody “terrorists” attacks in Italia were done by the calabrese and sicilian mafia. ALL of THEM. Kennedy and Martin Luther King were gunned down by the mafia. Siram Siram was also connected to the libaneese mafia. As for Ben Laden ? Another arab gangster implicated in opium business in Afghanistan. State is quite consumate shit when you think about the beast. Nothing has really changed since the Roman Empire. At the time the scum was called the pretorian guard. Nothing new under the sun when it come to the State.
IS ATTORNEY GENERAL KEN CUCCINELLI A BIRTHER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-3nkQYONic
@Adam C
Most member of Stalin’s NKVD and KGB came from the mafia. Case closed about the state and the left love affair with the state.
@ Mother Earth
>> I can’t see any difference between private and public.
It’s usually more productive to use the distinction between voluntary and involuntary.
For example, anyone can choose voluntarily to contribute to what may be deemed a ‘public good.’
And surely we’d find it morally reprehensible to ask people to involuntarily contribute to what may be deemed a ‘private good’.
So we’d have no problem with someone voluntarily contributing to a ‘private good’, either their own or anothers.
But it seems some people do have trouble with voluntary exchanges – in principle – because they are ideologically driven to prefer all contributions to made be involuntary and according to *their* whim, whether they go to what may be deemed ‘private’ or ‘public’ goods. To further this end they muddle the distinction on purpose to provoke false moralistic public/private debates.
The only real moral question to ask is: Am I being coerced?
@Adam C – talking about preserving bloodlines may not sound racist to you, but I believe it is . . .
and how my moving where I found more freedom than at home is somehow attacking you for remaining behind is a bit paranoid to say the least; my family came from Europe to the US for the very same reasons; this sort of free movement of humans was happening for hundreds of thousands of years; this anti-immigration movement is fueled through stoking racism and I think makes it even more difficult for humans and their relationship with capital and corporations
Elizabeth Warren : by the end of this year half of commercial real estate loans will be under water
The pending Commercial Real Estate Collapse and the state of the Economy http://economycollapse.blogspot.com/2010/03/elizabeth-warren-commercial-real-estate.html
As an America I miss the America before 1970. We became an imperial nation, a selfish nation. a debtor nation, our schools went to hell, our industrial base declined very much, Our so called leaders sold us out on NAFTA, our culture, our future and pretty much everything else. We also became the world’s most naive people. Some of The fools in this country still believe in this Obama and the so called America dream which is already dead and gone. Bush, Obama, Biden, Cheney, Pelosi, Geithner, Paulson and Summers are not my leaders. They couldn’t lead me across the street!
@Marc Authier
I agree.
Statism is just a means towards a monopoly on violence.
It’s difficult for people to believe that the state is a crimal enterprise because everyone has grown up with the state. Even the most curious and intelligent people have trouble understanding ‘the world.’
Max has used the analogy of the fish discovering water to explain the fiat money fraud (I think that was his example), well, the same analogy applies to government itself.
If you were to simply ask people what transactions they entered into voluntarily and those they didn’t and pressed them for explanations why, they’d soon get the idea that the government is simply a force for coercion – and force that grows and cannot be stopped once started.
But alas, people think they can tame just the ‘bad’ parts of the government. It’s really a strange sight to behold once you’re struggled past the delusions of the world in order to really ‘see’ it.
Watch the Godfather and imagine Michael Corleone as a reluctant politician…
Violence has a logic all of its own regardless of how ‘good’ the person is who wishes to tame it.
now into its second year, this USA ‘health care reform’ thing has to be the greatest device ever invented for obliterating all media discussion regarding the MANY problems of American citizens:
little things like no job, house being foreclosed/underwater, no money for kids’ higher education (@$20k/year), pension plan destroyed, the insidious increase in state/local taxes, NEGATIVE real interest rates on any attempt to save, stealth REAL inflation (vs CPI BS), and more
finally, i no longer differentiate between the oft-loathed ‘Main Stream Media’ and the VAST majority of internet reporting
How does mostly secular Europeans feel about Islam? I’m Catholic but I don’t shove my feelings down others throats. I don’t discuss church with others. How are the muslims in Europe are they secular or are they very active? PS My great grandmother came to the US from the UK nearly a century ago. My great uncle won 7 medals fighting the Germans in WWII and he was 100% of German blood.
Washington DC Deathcare Protest Live Coverage http://interactive.foxnews.com/livestream/live.html?chanId=6
@stacyherbert
Apologies, I didn’t address my previous comment (starting as below) to you directly
>> @Brandon – sorry, but you sound racist; um especially in light of Britain’s long, bloody history invading, occupying and pillaging Third World countries
I have think Asians by in large have been good for nation. They are well educated and well off. I know a few Latinos that I like and get along with. However you look at Latino crime, education and poverty and the numbers are really bad. Most of the post Hart-Celler Immigrants from 1965 to today came to the US poor and stayed that way. The UK and other western powers did bad things in the third world no doubt. I’m a proud European of Irish, English, German and Italian blood we need these cultures to survive. Why is it racist to be proud of European culture? It has suffered a decline no doubt but it has done some good things for the world. Others are proud of their cultures why not us?
>> @Brandon – sorry, but you sound racist; um especially in light of Britain’s long, bloody history invading, occupying and pillaging Third World countries
(I’m aware I’m inserting myself into a conversaton here…)
Supposedly, I’m a ‘Brit’. Trouble is, there is no Britain. Am I responsible for what those who called themselves ‘Brits’ did to other ‘countries’/plots of land? No, of course not. I’m only responsible for my own actions or those actions taken on my behalf that have been given my explicit moral approval and/or material support.
Brandon doesn’t sound like a racist *to me* – but he may be. (If he is, I won’t defend him.)
But, Stacy, you sound like an irrationalist. I say so because you’re so often accusing Americans or Brits for actions and attitudes they supposedly have and often with little actual evidence. You generalise, for rhetorical and satirical affect.
Of course, in this particular case, if you were free from the delusion of ‘nations’ you’d be clearer about what people — by their own words and deeds — actually believed, rather than dimissing them for having automatically and unthinkingly (by your estimation, at least) endorsed their ‘leaders” every action.
For example, we (I, at least) extended you this courtesy when you explained how you moved around the world seeking the most favourable conditions. I have no problem with you doing that, I do have a problem if you believe such freedom somehow makes you better than others who stay put.
You may have a chip on your shoulder (come now, let’s not ignore the issue, you ran away from America, for better or worse that has to hurt) about the dumbness of Americans and little-americans i.e., the Brits. But that doesn’t give you right to talk down to people (not often, but when you do vent, the gaping wound is VERY obvious to all) or to put thoughts in their brains and words in their mouths.
Give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when that doubt is entirely yours.
I can’t see any difference between private and public. Whatever it is, if you don;t own it of control it, it should have no business in your life. Doesn’t government always kinda imply voters decided on its existence? We all know that is not true.
Those cost are disgusting. It is all based on bank induced mandatory non cooperation.
@Adam C
The state killed more people than any institution. The bigger and more important the state, the bigger the massacres. Warfare and statism is a synonym in most countries. I have a problem with the left and their lack of critical thought about the Stare religion. The right too is quite hypocritical about the state. In reality nobody in the USA is really critical about massive state intervention. Washington and the US federal is a cancer. Greyson may be a nice guy for now. But he will probably end up like Kucinich, that traitor.
Norman Dodd was interviewed in 1982 by G. Edward Griffin regarding the time he spent as the head researcher for the Reece Committee.
This is a truly eye opening look into what the tax exempt foundations are doing in the United States – their attempt to merge the Soviet System of Government with the USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM
Ex-KGB Officer Yuri Bezmenov – Propaganda and Mind Control (1 of 3)
3 parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQMB7hEP8E
Thanks for the Salon link Stacy. I was just pondering the problems mentioned in it a few days ago.
My conclusion:
The Democratic Party is too big. The coalitions that make up the party are opposing each other on too many issues. The Democratic politicians are forced to serve too many constituents. It ends up being a zero-sum game in that one part of the coalition wins while another loses. They can only pursue half-assed middling policies designed to just keep their constituents in the party, rather than throwing them some serious red meat and making them rabid supporters. The end result of this is disillusionment.
This disgusting corporate giveaway bill is just one example, but I could point to dozens, if not hundreds, of other examples from recent history. The Democratic Party has now brought in corporatist elements which are completely opposed to any meaningful challenge to the corporate-friendly status-quo. The elected D representatives can only go so far appeasing one element of their coalition before they start upsetting another element.
With respect to leftists/progressives, the only thing keeping them in the D party is a fear of Republican resurgence. But I question how much longer this will remain so. The Republican coalition is smaller and not as ideologically diverse, as such they can pursue radical agendas in office and not offend their coalition members.
After a while, people should start to notice that Democratic governance is fundamentally conservative and should seek other options.
Speaking for myself, I have left the party forevermore and will seek third party alternatives from now on. Hopefully I can catch on somewhere or my worldview will catch on with others. It is our only hope to salvage this dying country.
@Adam C
What happened to the poor in USSR and Eastern Europe ? The goulag. That’s what happened. The first thing that Communists, these bastards, did was starve to death the poor farmers and the peasants.
@Brandon – sorry, but you sound racist; um especially in light of Britain’s long, bloody history invading, occupying and pillaging Third World countries
Did anybody notice that a Larouche candidate has won a seat in Texas recently? That’s the sort of ire that voters are expressing at the moment…
@whitehunter
LOL! Is that why Keynes said he liked Germany under Hitler?
Where is David Cameron on Immigration? Gordon Brown like those in America seem resigned to a third world future. The elites in America allow the destruction our of nations European hertiage in the name of cheap labor and hurting the middle class. I have blacks friends that I work with that resent the illegals even more than whites. The UK natives have a decent birthrate compared to nations like Italy, Spain and Germany. They must stop the invasion of the third world!
Kucinich, for all the good stuff he’s stood for, is now dead meat, as far as his political career goes. And the people who vote for this bill had better enjoy Washington while they can, ’cause this November they are going to be looking for new jobs.
hitler was a progressive
@Marc Authier
>> the left is they have a religion that I cannot really trust. It’s called statism.
A religion of violence: You hurt my feelings and because I don’t have the courage to pull you up on your actions, I’m going to create a vengeful big daddy protector to come and beat up you and your daddy so that I don’t have to do it myself or acknowledge my own responsibility for the management of my feelings and honest
dealings with others. I’ll either call this daddy Government, or I might call him God.
A religion of temper-tantrumed infantilism, in other words.
@ Mep
i haven’t followed your PC problems
but System Idle Process (SIP) is not actually a ‘process’ (typical Microsoft)
it indicates the amount of unused (idle) CPU resources, after adding up the total CPU load of actual running processes/programs
eg SIP=90% means total actual CPU load=10%
this would generally be VG
if you are experiencing gummy operation, the first place to look is for spyware/malware
run a FULL system scan using your anti-malware program
i’ve said it before – no one listens – this gravatar thing includes user tracking software – aka spyware – which is why it’s ‘free’
(check it out)
>> @Authier – that’s a generalization that doesn’t stand up when you look at Jane Hamsher, for example; she was crucial in working with Alan Grayson (another relatively progressive left
I’d suggest revenge (i.e., violence) is the common theme. In the case of statist progressives the violence is justified for an imagined ‘common good’ which may include – though usually only rhetorically – some heartfelt (both real and faked) reference to the poor. And we all know perfectly well what *actually* happens to the poor.
The point is, violence never works. Statists of all colours and stripes work by proxy of their ‘party’ for the violence party motivated by fear, greed, envy, and revenge.
It’s all a bit of a waste, really.
at least some of us will be able to use our gold coins to purchase black market health care
From the Neo Feudalism article…
‘When this passes, it will become clear that Congress is no longer the sovereign of this nation. Rather, the corporations dictating the laws will be.
I understand the temptation to offer 30 million people health care. What I don’t understand is the nonchalance with which we’re about to fundamentally shift the relationships of governance in doing so.
We’ve seen our Constitution and means of government under attack in the last 8 years. This does so in a different–but every bit as significant way. We don’t mandate tithing corporations in this country–at least not yet. And it troubles me that so many Democrats are rushing to do so, without considering the logical consequences.’
No comment necessary. Surely it’s obvious to all what the real problem here is.
Instead, a quote:
“Give in to your anger. With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant. Goooood! I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon! Strike me down with all your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.” — The Emperor
State violence; Corporate violence. Red Team/John Wayne violence; Blue Team/Robin Hood violence…
*sigh*
Like Kucinich ? The problem with the left is they have a religion that I cannot really trust. It’s called statism. Never said that they are some lefties not honest or coherent. Naturally Greyson is an exception like Ron Pau at the right. That’s the problem. What do you when you are a social-democrat like I am, but have stopped believing that the state is a very useful tool to fight against the banking mobsters and the monopolists ? USA today is a lot like Nazi Germany or the ex USSR. Democracy on the surface but if you scratch you find quite horrbile thingies like Health Care eugenists. Scary.
Progressives are not just left,
The common smear is “progressive left”
It is really statism,,, left and right or Elitism enabled by government henchmen
@Authier – that’s a generalization that doesn’t stand up when you look at Jane Hamsher, for example; she was crucial in working with Alan Grayson (another relatively progressive left) on the audit the fed bill: http://vodpod.com/watch/2796854-firedoglake-coms-jane-hamsher-discusses-the-fed-audit-and-fed-chair-ben-bernanke and here: http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/alan-grayson-says-audit-the-fed/
And massive unemployment. (manufactured by FED).
Progressive left should start attacking the bankers like Ron Paul does regularly. It’s strange when you think about the leftistw.
Rarely do I read attacks against the way banking and scandaloous moneraty policy is organized. The Conservative right is more intelligent, coherent and articulate when it comes to diagnozing the root of the PURE EVIL; THE FED. Tthe national socialist, the nazi policies by the FED destroy the poor and the middle class either by massive inflation, massive taxation or massive inflation. The left is plain dumb.
Moulitsas surprised me when he went on Countdown recently and made his douchey comments about Dennis Kucinich– even threatening that Kucinich would be primaried if he opposed the legislation. Prior to that, Moulitsas was forever bitching about Dems who would not agree to support a genuine public option and who would not agree to fight for it at all costs.
if no promises were made, behind closed doors, or if those promises, behind closed doors, are not kept then KOS Progressives are nothing, but gluttons for punishment.
If that is the case than we do have an S&M electorate especially, among KOS progressives; those who kick and those who liked to be kicked.
And finally, these particular progressive numbnuts, with their endless vilifications, will vindicate and prove without a doubt that Ralph Nader was right, AGAIN.
—
“The American People can have anything they want, trouble is, they don’t want much of anything.” -Eugene Debbs
@SG – yeah, works for me . . .
@maxkeiser.com
after about fifth attempt seems to be working fine now!!!
@maxkeiser.com
salon.com page not found!!!!