Ron Paul Agrees: Obama is NOT a Socialist

Posted on April 11, 2010 by stacyherbert| 39 Comments

Stacy Summary: Sounds like Ron Paul watched our interview with BJ Lawson . . . (um, that’s a joke for all those who couldn’t tell . . . )

Here is Max discussing this very thing with BJ Lawson two weeks ago:

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39 Responses to Ron Paul Agrees: Obama is NOT a Socialist

  1. JR | April 13, 2010 at 3:20 pm |

    Please, people should put the use of “socialism” to describe the US on hold, its the opposite, socialism does not defraud the working class out of trillions to pay private bankers! It does not Raid social security.

    When we get “debt-free” housing, Health care without premiums and exceptions for pre-existing conditions, affordable no-profiteering electricity and utilities services, free education all the way to university level, THEN you might talk about being plagued by “socialism”

    I have to agree with R.Paul on this one, “corporatism” is a better description

  2. harry_w | April 12, 2010 at 10:46 am |

    @ Michael P. Shipley,

    how is the government OWNING the largest insurer (AIG), the largest mortgage companies (F&F), and the largest manufacturer (GM) not socialism?

    How is the transfer of private debt to be paid of by the public through taxation socialism? It’s corporatism, to ensure the survival of those corporations until they can be made profitable and they will then be transferred back into private hands.

    Oligarchs are dumping their losses on the public and making off with any profits they could extract before the crash.

    As I said above re: Max calling Obama and Palin’s reforms ‘socialist’:

    … he seems to equate government control with socialism, rather than measured against ownership and control of the means of production.

    That’s all your doing. Those corporations are loss making, they’re the means of wealth destruction (based on liabilities generated while in private hands). So they’re taken out of private hands (to protect their wealth) and the liabilities are dumped on the public to pay-off. That’s not socialism, it’s corporatism (as Ron Paul has stated).

    What’s your definition of socialism, how does it include workers paying off the liabilities generated by private capitalists, through taxation?

  3. zaphodity | April 12, 2010 at 8:37 am |

    …And some folks can’t understand the concept of a corporatist profiting from war..

  4. Michael P. Shipley | April 12, 2010 at 8:37 am |

    how is the government OWNING the largest insurer (AIG), the largest mortgage companies (F&F), and the largest manufacturer (GM) not socialism?

  5. zaphodity | April 12, 2010 at 8:24 am |

    Letter from present day, well known corporation to government of Germany, dated 1943

    Dearest Adolf,

    IBM is not responsible for the use of it’s products to inventory the extermination of the Jewish people, but you ARE criminally liable if you withold applicable revenues from IBM whilst performing such activities. We don’t care what you do with our product, we just want the cash.
    Yours Sincerely
    T.J. Watson

    To understand this post please refer to the link below:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkoM8RB-kJ0&feature=channel

  7. The Four Marks | April 12, 2010 at 1:06 am |

    @Max

    That cartoon is pretty offensive. What is all the anti-Catholic prejudice in the media about anyway? It is because the Catholic Church is the biggest and therefore most lucrative to sue? Statistically, Catholic clergy are least likely to offend.

    I’m wishing you a very blessed Divine Mercy Sunday.

  8. frances snoot | April 11, 2010 at 6:57 pm |

    oops, that’s not waxman

  9. frances snoot | April 11, 2010 at 6:57 pm |

    @Waxman:
    If Crist signs the bill, what will be the affect on public education in Florida? The nation?

  10. harry_w | April 11, 2010 at 4:48 pm |

    @ Stacy,

    It’s gratifying to hear a representative with a grasp of politics, economics and ideology. [Even if he does come from the opposite end of the political perspective, a realistic analysis.]

    APRIL 10, 2010, 4:20 PM ET
    Ron Paul: Barack Obama is Not a Socialist

    “In the technical sense, in the economic definition, he is not a socialist,” the Texas Republican said to a smattering of applause at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference.

    “He’s a corporatist,” Paul quickly added, meaning the president takes “care of corporations and corporations take over and run the country.”

    I agree with Vonda Bra. It’s probably going a little to far to suggest Ron Paul forms his views based on watching Max coming to grips with the notion of corporatism.

    Max has been labelling Obama a socialist, and creating a ‘socialised’ finance industry, just a few months ago @ 24:00, even suggesting Sarah Palin is socialist too! – [KR04] Keiser Report with Steve Keen, December 10th, 2009

    I tried to explain why Max was mis-using the terminology and slipping into American Newspeak:

    Keen shifted his head back when Max was rambling on about ’socialism’ (in the American news-speak sense). Keen is a socialist. He responds by discussing Americans’ emotional response to certain words robbing them of the tools to analyse politics and economics. Keen doesn’t agree, or use the word ’socialism’ or ’socialised’ in relation to his analysis of the US response to the credit crunch.

    @ Max,
    Trying to suggest US has implemented socialism, ’socialised’ it’s main industry — finance etc is precisely what Keen was talking about. In fact, the ownership and control remains in private hands, the state takes the liabilities, to extract from taxpayers….That’s Corporatism, not Socialism or socialising an industry, which would entail transferring ownership and control of capital, not just liabilities.

    I don’t think Max was even the first person to introduce the term on The Truth About Markets:

    I happen to know Max couldn’t be Marxist, because in recent podcasts he still seems to equate government control with socialism, rather than measured against ownership and control of the means of production.

    It’s the classic American misconception of socialism, cultivated by their education and media culture. I think it often renders Americans almost speechless, lacking the words and concepts required to describe the reality around them.

    I’ve suggested that to Stacy before, that the ‘neo-feudal gulag’ concept is actually a description of financial corporatism — in the alignment of private finance with the powers of the state. In fairness, Stacy has broached some of these terms and ideas in recent podcasts, and Max has highlighted what I called the zombie debt-slave class as a source of political support for zombie bankers.

    I was listening for that because I’d been banging on about this being a neo-liberal collapse into corporatism (rather than socialism) for months. The New York Times columnist even welcomed it, for finance and government but not for industry (where ‘creative destruction must reign).

    Btw, the often cited ‘quote’ from Mussolini on corporatism is only attributed, it’s never been sourced.

    The idea of the neo-feudal casino-gulag is actually quite close to corporatism in essence, they both hark back to medieval forms of political and economic relations (pre-individualism). That’s why I think the idea of The Peasant Party was so brilliant and appealing. There is an election in the UK now, perhaps a Peasant Party be standing, for a more caring corporatism? ;)

  11. frances snoot | April 11, 2010 at 4:48 pm |

    Police power of the IRS agent:

    “When negotiating with IRS Revenue Officers, it is important to remember the many enforcement tools they have at their disposal. These powers include:

    1. Filing a Federal tax lien securing the IRS’s interest in a taxpayer’s property.

    2. Issuing a levy to seize bank accounts, wages and subcontractor income.

    3. Seizure of “hard assets” that have equity, such as real estate, automobiles and business equipment.

    4. Using a summons to compel a taxpayer to appear at the Revenue Officer’s office and complete a financial statement (subsequently used to enforce #1, #2 and #3, above).

    5. Investigate owners and managers of a business for liabilty for the trust fund recovery penalty.

    6. Prepare “substitute returns” to put a liability on the IRS’s books when there is a refusal to voluntarily file returns.

    7. Make referrals to the IRS Criminal Investigation Division.

    8. Grant installment agreements and uncollectible status. Field Revenue Officers do not directly investigate and make determinations on offers in compromises and innocent spouse claims.

    9. Pursue recovery of transfers of property to third persons intended to defeat the IRS’s interest, including via transferee liability and nominee liens.

    10. Make personal visits to a taxpayer’s house or business. If you are not home, expect a card in the door. Best times for the visit: before long weekends.

    Always respect an IRS Revenue Officer and their powers.”

    Full post as published by IRS and the Law on February 04, 2009

    http://www.uslaw.com/library/Taxation_&_Estate_Planning/powers_IRS_Revenue_Officer.php?item=371362

  13. Carmen Azul | April 11, 2010 at 4:14 pm |

    @Fiatmentalist:
    thx for link history of paper mney
    “The Bank of Sweden Nobel Prize in Economics”!
    Collapse can happen in a day!

    FSN 4/10/10

  14. frances snoot | April 11, 2010 at 3:37 pm |

    @Mep:
    I bet all debt collectors wish they had an illegal, illegitimate standing army like the IRS. But the IRS is only for those privileged sovereigns who now stand to ‘reform the system’ by bankrupting the competition.

  15. Mep | April 11, 2010 at 2:55 pm |

    Speaking of Ron Paul, FactCheck.org recently factchecked Paul’s claims about the new IRS employees:

    http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/

  16. Vonda Bra | April 11, 2010 at 2:50 pm |

    @ Stacy
    “Sounds like Ron Paul watched our interview with BJ Lawson . . .”
    Sorry, but it must be the other way round…. it is Ron Paul who is naming it and using the term “corporatism” for years now …. :-)
    “copyright-holder” for this is Dr. Ron Paul…

    just found one in so many examples, here from Sept. 2008:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ticytEUvVhQ

    anyway, just wanted to set this straight! :-)

  17. Adam C | April 11, 2010 at 1:35 pm |

    Socialist || State Capitalist || Fascist || Corporatist || Crony Capitalist || Rigged-Market Capitalist || Mercantilist = Statist

    All just styles of the same thing: state violence.

  18. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm |

    * Correction 3 years back

  19. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 1:11 pm |

    @ Majestic
    already saw the Bond ting 3 years back ; I have seen all tis stuff 3 years
    lolololololol
    Hic ;-)

  20. FiatMentalist | April 11, 2010 at 1:04 pm |

    Jim Puplava talks to Lawrence Parks on the history of paper money

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0vGrTsjzc

  21. FiatMentalist | April 11, 2010 at 12:37 pm |

    @Max

    Ill see your german media abuse of religion and raise you British army abuse of culture

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264482/Army-using-mosque-models-target-practice.html

    1930s all over again?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txaR2HvnwVg

  22. FiatMentalist | April 11, 2010 at 12:30 pm |

    So the annunaki were corporatists slave drivers who were also gold bugs and they were activley involved in creating the perfect slave?

    As above so below right?

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-9005367754264973286&ei=bq7BS6uDOc7W-Abp7pm-Ag&q=they+live&hl=en#

    subconscious is a hell of a master, it has the word con in it for one, think theyre getting ready to release the meme krakken

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7S0s3NLEp4

  23. Majestic | April 11, 2010 at 12:24 pm |

    (PS Not seen the previous thread/references with Dedo)

  24. Majestic | April 11, 2010 at 12:21 pm |

    @ Bonn

    Possibly “the KGB UFO files” narrated by Roger Moore?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbCLw1kxe78
    [part 1]

  25. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 10:57 am |

    And the Discovery channel’s dots fit in wit tee larger picture of what Zaicheria has talked about

  26. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 10:55 am |

    @ Dedo
    I have seen stuff on Discovery channel what yas concider legit
    Lotta structures replicate or are alligned towards Orions belt
    Pyramids of Gyeser
    Ankor vat
    And thier error is not more tan 3 cms do some Googling on tis relation
    b/w Orions belt and other structures around the world

  27. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 10:38 am |

    @ Happy Dick

    The Antikythera Device,The Piri Reis Map and The Baghdad Battery
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1pYR_dyL1A

    lolololololol
    ROFL
    Hic ;-)

  28. Happy Dick | April 11, 2010 at 10:33 am |

    There are some who believe that the gravitational effect of plant x is starting to cause our worlds platonic plates to quake. hmmmm … Anunnaki related fables??

  30. Marc Authier | April 11, 2010 at 10:16 am |

    @Bonn
    Ther will be able at least to make light bulbs with them. Tungstene transform electricity into heat and light. May the light be with you brother Tungstene. Nobody is talking about the German “gold” in New-York. Bet you the German have a lot of tungstene.

  31. Marc Authier | April 11, 2010 at 10:13 am |

    USA is a “cartelocracy” a “plutocracy” like Nazi Germany by the way. Very funny to think of if. Hitler used to attack in his speeches the US as as a “plutocracy”. A democracy runned by the ultra rich and for the ultra rich. The accusation a couple of decades later was hurled at Elstine and Poutine Russia in the semantic form of “Oligarchacracy”. I prefer “cartelocracy” or “Corporocracy”. He’s a socialist all right but only when it come to cover the ass of the ultra rich. Like Mussolini, Like Hitler. Sorry. It’s like that.

  32. Bonn | April 11, 2010 at 10:09 am |

    Lol was just tinking Annunaki gonna be mighty pissed off wit Tungsten Gold bars
    lololololololol
    ROFL
    Hic ;-)

  33. Happy Dick | April 11, 2010 at 9:58 am |

    pg 79

    “This early use of the monetary unit as a tool of imperial control
    and corporate extra-market profit was a forecast of later phases of
    the U.S. elite’s global project. In the crisis of the Great Depression,
    all major powers abandoned the interwar semi-gold standard in favor
    of fiat money, adopting simultaneously the Keynesian program
    of monetary manipulation.”

  35. Happy Dick | April 11, 2010 at 9:39 am |

    from pg 67 … occurred @ 1900
    “Industry
    by industry, these “corporate liberals” sought federal legislation
    to block populistic legislation in the states, and to “rationalize,”
    i.e., cartelize, their sectors of the economy. Regulation of an
    industry was typically pioneered by its biggest firms, which then
    controlled the subsequent regulatory bureau—to the detriment of
    competitors and the public”.

    “the larger banks “managed their own
    regulation, and under the aegis of the federal government” through
    the Federal Reserve System”.

  36. Marc Authier | April 11, 2010 at 9:39 am |

    Obama is a nice looking poodle.

  37. Marc Authier | April 11, 2010 at 9:33 am |

    The Mussolini triple decker.

    Big business
    Big government.
    Big banks.

    The oligarcho monopoly complex.

  38. Marc Authier | April 11, 2010 at 9:28 am |

    He is oligarch facist. A Corporate national socialist. A globalist Nazi.