Stacy Summary: Oh boy. This paper from The Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond is doing the rounds all over the blogosphere this morning. Would love to have your thoughts on their argument. I know we had one ‘there is no housing bubble in Canada’ commenter who is no longer on the site, but he would agree as he believed you must have an economics degree to qualify to comment on the economy around you. But your thoughts? And how long before heretics start being burned at the stake?
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Elon Musk, chief executive officer of Tesla Motors Inc., made at least $15 million from the electric carmaker’s initial public offering, restoring some of the wealth he’s staked on the company and other startups.
Tesla set a price of $17 per share and Musk sold 908,958 shares of the Palo Alto, California-based company, according to filings. Tesla rose 41 percent yesterday, the second-biggest rally for a U.S. IPO this year.
Musk, 39, who made about $300 million selling PayPal Inc. and Zip2 Corp., said in February he had just $650,000 in “liquid assets” and obtained loans from friends to pay fees and support for estranged wife Justine Musk, according to a divorce-related filing. The value of his remaining Tesla stake jumped to $654.5 million, based on yesterday’s $23.89 closing price on the first day of Nasdaq Stock Market trading. The $15 million estimate for the sale of Musk’s shares is based on a calculation by Bloomberg.
Not bad for a company that hasn’t made a profit!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-30/tesla-motors-ceo-musk-made-15-million-from-ipo-restoring-part-of-wealth.html
I can’t speak for all of Canada Stacy but for Saskatchewan the market is still overvalued by at least 20%. The 40 year mortgages have been removed. Problem is the fixed rate mortgages gradually disappeared as well. The longest fixed rate available for southern Sask. is 5 years. Bleh.
With the potash, oil, and grains we’ve been able to stay ahead of Alberta and BC as far as a deflating bubble. How much longer is anyone’s guess.
Who are the ones allowing contrary opinion, and who is monitoring theacceptable voice of dissent on this site?
So… after watching Brainstorm (with Christopher Walken)
I decided to go back and search the names cited in the article
Greg Mankiw:
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/05/advice-for-aspiring-economists.html
Stephen Williamson:
http://newmonetarism.blogspot.com/
Robert E Lucas Jr:
http://ideas.repec.org/e/plu15.html
http://www.jonathanheathcote.com/
Dirk Krueger:
http://ideas.repec.org/e/pkr7.html
you’re welcome
thanks snoot!
“So much of my 1st year homework involved writing down tedious definitions of internally consistent outcomes. Not analyzing them, just defining them, …”
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/uploads/2010/Jun/33655771-Economics-is-Hard.pdf
The document isn’t available.
As for the Canadian commenter saying there is no housing bubble, he should check out Vancouver. How long can a real estate market be sustained when entire professional corps such as police officers, firefighters or teachers cannot afford to live in the city they work for?
Interesting link http://www.rebgv.org/housing-price-index?region=all&type=all&date=2010-05-01
Anyone notice that the article actually being discussed here has been taken down? Can anyone post a copy of it somewhere so I can read it?
Also, funny ad on the sidebar from Northeastern – “Master of Science in Finance – Prestigious – Relevant – 100% Online”
@Ptah,… RE: “Hakim Bey”
No I haven’t, but I’ll look him up,..thanks
I’m all for learning new perspectives,…..: )
Dedo: Are you familiar with Hakim Bey? Some of his writing describes the creation of micro systems which he refers to as Praxis – an esoteric and fragmentary moment in time and space which anyone can create and exist within and which allows for the suspension of all competing systems.
Anyone who has attempted this will now how euphoric the moment can be, however it is a short-lived ‘amyl nitrate’ form of experience. A good example of praxis is to walk in slow motion through the local shopping mall drawing odd looks from passers by.
Unfortunately the entire process relies upon invention at such an uneconomic rate of knots that one soon exhausts oneself of the creative impulse and becomes predictable. At this point one usually gets self-conscious… or tasered.
How surprising. One of the altar-boys of the Church of the Mystic Money Grabbers claims that the lowly serfs can’t possibly understand the god-given knowledge that God Almighty has passed to the high priests of finance. Or, as the Wizard of Oz used to say: “DON’T LOOK BEHIND THE CURTAIN, IGNORE THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!”
We’ve surely been down this road before, ne ce pas?
@Frances,..”You find justification in limiting discourse?”
I find better ways,…through discourse
@Frans,….I agree totally,…it’s how I use my mind,…..
But as I stated,…
We live in a system (reality),..which has been created for us !
unless anyone here is in the position to change it,..I would suggest, working with it, until such time as some sort of structure can be formed ,…
Any takers,…..: )
I’m not throwing snowballs, Dedo.
You find justification in limiting discourse?
@Frances,..You obviously didn’t comprehend my take on the article ,..and instead, insist on defending “your” position.
But, hey,.. it’s nice to see !
I think it’s great to discuss ideas,..
My two cents,
An education can be of great help, but at the same time is a prison. One has to step out of it to escape the paradigm one is casted into while being educated.
Economist in the prison who are not thinking for themselves are a greater danger than the non professional thinkers. The first ones think they know, the latter are perhaps more aware of possible flaws of their thinking.
Original thinking is necessary anyway: not only thinking along lines that are defined. The laymen have a better chance of thinking outside the box than the schooled ones I think.
Especially when we are in a time where the economic laws that ruled for many decades are not suitable anymore for the unique period of time we are in now we need to see beyond boundaries.
It is not uncommon for people with common sense to see problems coming that the so called experts don’t see because they are captured by their on way of dividing the multidimensional truth according to there own lines.
.
(Although it is hardly credible that the man is operating in a unilateral context and also has such a position within the system: is he merely stupid? What spin does the thread produce?)
Athreya’s entire argument was predicated upon the assumption that the dollar-index-exchange system which is now operating will continue to do so. Reason fails through arrogance.
How efficient is that, Dedo?
Really now, what is this crap writing? Is this some kind of economic psy-ops? America is getting scarier by the day.
Feeling is the conduit to the imagination. Reason is built, unfortunately, upon assumption. One cannot rely completely on reason.
Discipline need not be the antithesis of feeling. We are molded upon a diagram ourselves, as humans, which aides only the efficiencies of arbitrary profit margins.
Hobbes believed that the state of nature was chaotic and that man needed to molde nature according to sovereign digress. That arrogance is not efficient.
Balance is efficient, as evident within the well-built bridge.
The Federal Reserve is the keeper of the flame of economic knowledge! Fuck the FED.
Power to the People !!!!
Economics in not taught in our public schools !!!
I wonder why?
Do feelings interfere with efficiency ?
@Frances,…What if, one is unable to feel !,..does this inhibit invention ?
Imagination, obviously, is congruent with reason and creativity,…
Imagination and feeling are aligned with reason in invention, Dedo. I was hoping for a new age; will we get one?
@Ptah,….My point being,.it’s not an essential per-requisite for building efficient structure.
Of course, the debate can vary off on many tangents….but I hope you get my gist! : )
Bridge anyone?
http://www.geekologie.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?tag=bridge&blog_id=1
I think that it is a strike against you if you have an economics degree. Chances are your mind has been polluted with Keynesian Economic Theory.
Also I live in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. We are in an economic boom with respect to construction. I sometimes think we are in the land of the lost.
In the grand scheme of things our housing prices are low compared to major Canadian Centers BUT we do have a real estate bubble here. The municipal government increased assessed values of homes and raised property tax rates at the same time to finance some of the construction they are doing. Our provincial government told them not to do it as it could be seen as a tax grab…DUH. Needless to say thousands have filed a dispute with the government to have their assessed values re-assessed.
This is a manufactured bubble and it will burst. Idiots!
Dedo
If the engineers role was as mechanical as you appear to suggest then all bridges would probably look and feel the same, yet we know from experience that engineers take account of emotive as well as empirical concerns. Hence the wide variety in bridge types: suspension/rotating/floating etc.
The science of economics is simply the bed rock of propaganda used as an excuse to take decision making out the the hands of elected officials and put it in the hands of the moneyed.
Dear Bob, you are funny!
“but these clowns should remember PhD diplomas are no protection from a pissed-off crowd of broke “dumbasses” armed with pitchforks.”
So true…
The builders,..need someone to design and manage the build,…mostly,..
Hence the present day system,……
@Ptah,..I disagree with this point though,..
“and that requires feelings “
Ptah…..I knew someone would eventually get it,……..thanks,.: )
Dedo: Engineers don’t build bridges, builders do! Engineers calculate, design and conceptualise… and that requires feelings as well as math and physics.
If only the highly educated can understand economics then the money made in markets by the less-educated had better be taken from them before they hurt themselves and all of their savings had better be handed over to qualified professionals to manage and give them dividends from where appropriate. Otherwise their misguided decisions will screw up the market and hurt all of us. The little-educated that is. The better educated never do things to harm the economy.
He had me at “…should be ignored by open-minded lay public”
was Athreya drunk when he wrote this, or did he have a high school student throw this together for him?
Comparing an education in economics to medical training in oncology or even seismology demonstrates his lack of maturity.
If this guy is a representative of the Federal Reserve we are in bigger trouble than I thought.
Perhaps he was just referring to the bloggers and lay people in Mumbai or trying to impress the girls.
What nonsense.
The more the pervasive financial fraud and corruption is revealed, the more one does not need to be an economist to know that this is about God’s moral law, to know that a bunch of liars, cheats, and theives run the world because they have stolen all wealth.
@ Dedo (“I very much doubt, many on this forum, have a clue, on how to manage 6 people,..let alone 6 billion.”) Now just wait a minute- I can manage musicians! That is like successfully herding cats.
@Fran Six : … and I completed all the coursework for a MA in Music History (ABT)… I think either one of us is far more useful than a koolaid-drinking economist.
Frances,….I don’t think engineers use feelings to build bridges
After working as a civil draftsman for 7 years I can honestly tell you it wouldn’t come into the equation.
The bigger they are…the harder they SAG !
(Labor Party campaign slogan)
FOR JULIA GILLARD !
The new Aussie PM who never let Kevin Rudd (or gravity for that matter) get in her way !
http://imgur.com/MMNY1.jpg
Frances,….I don’t think engineers use feelings to build bridges,….do you?
The spoken word has many uses,…not all, to manipulate the mind of the uninitiated,..
But, I get your gist,….you do seem a bit “new age” though,..does make me laugh : )
Kartik Athreya is a moron and here’s an “insider” tip on how to recognize a moron from the FED : a man with a Ph.D. “in rigged-economics” who believes his own lies and has no common sense !!
@Bonn. i tink it’s da anti PPT fucking with gold.
Yeah its a good strip Stace
Science of Economics
is the
Art of Bullshit
First Law of the Science of Economics – Never admit that it’s not science
@snoot @zaph – woohoo! I love Hobbes too! This one is the best:
The ivory tower mentality insulates them from real criticism. Economics is an art, not a science.
Wheres TJ ? The KKK having a meeting with Ted Nugent as head spokesman or something ?
A few bars of willie nelson and a few brews
GOD help phonebooks if the Chinese ever invade !
China…VERY important economy…and lets not let penis size get in the way here americans in regards to your feelings about them.
I realize you have a certain affection for your country but don’t let it cloud your judgement.
@Snoot. what was the topic? why don’t you get your own site?
Here’s that venal fear so necessary to the systematic destruction of feeling:
“Since the acceptance of these conditions is based on fear of death, only fear of death can ensure that they be followed.”
http://ls.poly.edu/~jbain/socphil/socphillectures/A.Hobbes.pdf
I’m afraid we’ve gone hopelessly off-topic.
This is true but im confident capable hands will steady the sails and stear us on course once more Cap’m ! arrghhhhh
CERTAINLY are an organised bunch of little bastards arent they ? XD
A feeling like a zephyr wind, Zapho?
I’m afraid we’ve gone hopelessly off-topic.
Chinese Army Remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5QLZ4oj_6A
Wonderful marching skills to a catchy tune.
This Hobbes:
http://ls.poly.edu/~jbain/socphil/socphillectures/A.Hobbes.pdf
Not that Hobbes:
http://www.wafl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/calvin_and_hobbes_original.png
Ever had a new feeling..one you never had before… or is it just a variant on existing ones ?
Yes a type of feeling…But would you consider it a new one ?
You sound like Hobbes, Zapho
VERY important comic strip and a clever one if the fact the creation or “structure” of our personalities are formed in early childhood or so psychology tells us.
You certainly are a all book learned soul in some ways Franky..But we hardly know each other and I do wish to have verbal intercourse with you and exchange bodily processes (thoughts) i’m quite fond of communication and i say that in a non-homosexual way ….merely imply it.
You sound like Hobbes, Zapho.
Nostalgia? Hmmm. Good point, Zapho, perhaps a type of feeling, yes?
Once again, just some variant of textbook id imagine
Sorry but I dont know who Rompy Pomy is or what he wrote that pricked up certain academic ears.
LOL! Feeling does not translate into emotion: emotion is a bodily reaction.
Well everything that occurs in ones body is the result of some chemical process mixed with the central nervous system which is essentially a current driven mechanism. The human body produces its own electricity, in a way.
http://everything2.com/title/Plato%2527s+Attack+on+Poetry
Now, Haiku Herman (Van Rompuy) need not worry: he is one of those philosopher Kings meant to lord truth over us all to ‘manage most’. So his poetry is okeedokee.
But you could say..That roses smell reminds me of my mothers kitchen…Because many years before you smelled a similar scent and your experience memory relates it to that
LOL! Feeling does not translate into emotion: emotion is a bodily reaction.
Here’s the mirror to that essay Stacy linked, Zapho:
“Again, truth should be highly valued; if, as we were saying, a lie is useless to the gods, and useful only as a medicine to men, then the use of such medicines should be restricted to physicians; private individuals have no business with them. Then if any one at all is to have the privilege of lying, the philosopher kings should be the persons” (389a, Book III).”Plato-The Republic
Didn’t bother reading it all meself…Experience has taught me its probably BULLSHIT anyway.
YeOh = the act of agreement based on not understanding something but not wishing to admit it backed up by finally working it before finishing the word “yeah”
Mayhaps I have created a new word ?
In Summary….”Why are so many dumb people getting more attention than me? I’m so smart and so pretty, why don’t they notice me?”
What a self-centered piece of drabble.
Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot went after the intellectuals first. I thought it was to dumb down the population to make indoctrination easier…having second thoughts on that now.
YeOh…I get it now..nevermind
No matter how I feel about that bullet traveling towards me one things for certain, its going to HURT !
Is that what you mean or please elaborate.
Try telling that to anyone whos ever been shot
Feeling transcends form, Zapho.
…nothing to compare it too…Its like saying what does the note C taste like ?
Dont know..But i sure as shit could tell you after a few “select” varieties of mushrooms
To me fear is form given to thing or things as yet to be experienced..like…I’ll hate pat’e because its made from liver…although ive never tatsed it and have no idea ive formed the opinion i’ll dislike it based on preconceptions and not experience.
Man is a learned beast..we have no concept of something without first experiencing it.
Supreme court continues deconstruction of the rule of law..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10438332.stm
Isn’t that what Arethya was moaning about in his essay? He is being defrocked.
I see where you coming from. You comparing him to religious advocates. Us questioning the Divine Reserve and holy dollar. Which is all we really worship anyways.
Very creative by the way, like it.
Well, I did predict the dead zone effect of methane or at least the oil spill. No algae or plankton to make oxygen. This is how dumb our world is. Its the slow boil.
“Storm threatens to cause benzene rains”, no, fuckheads. Storm WILL cause benzene rains.
“Methane might cause deadzone”, no fuckheads, the Gulf is already dead due to fertilizer spills from the Mississippi (also an oil product thank you). The gulf WILL be a deadzone.
Media fuckheads must be shot. There is no virtue in being tentative and vague about obvious dangers. But that’s the stealth war to kill as much dumb people as possible at its best. This oil spill may become a global catastrophy and it will be brought as ‘Spill effects bigger than anticipated, extinciton risk significant says pentagon’.
@Snoot
I read the books of most faiths, including those of the muslims..
@Zaphodity:
To me, fear is the absence of feeling. It binds one not to what one doesn’t know, but to what one does know.
Theres something REALLY weird about a deity that was whipped, beaten, nailed to a cross wishing after all that…to be EATEN as well ?
Sounds awfully barbaric to me
Isn’t that what Arethya was moaning about in his essay? He is being defrocked.
Well, I would of thought participating in mock canibalism was a dead give away what with the eat this for its my flesh drink this for this is my blood etc.
@Zaphodity:
As in the manipulation of time as a function of mental capacity.
As far as im concerned..The fact jesus was crucified has been nothing but a financial windfall for the Vatican for centuries.
The Catholics claim that the eucharist is the heart of the mystery of god. The failure to partake of the eucharist (which is defined as bread and wine privileged by the presence of god within the magical application of the logos-priesthood) results in a long, long trip to a very unpleasant place (according to church authority).
Well, guess what? It’s bullshit! Because time is not bound within the context of the Catholic Church liturgy.
In fact: one should run from the logos, because it is through this member ( the body and blood of the sanction) that men are truly enslaved.
There are as many answers as there are operational definitions.
F*ck Fear.
I was speaking of fear that can be bought and sold, Zapho.
As in a false fear created to manipulate events to produce a financial reward for a certain party. Are we talking about religion or economics now ?
Lawyers same the same about the law and they too are full of stool!
Regardless, there are going to be many idiotic arguments on the internet since everyone has access (and feels inclined to comment (like me!)). The author shouldn’t get so hung up on this.
Also, where were all our trained economists prior to the meltdown? Apprarently their economic education failed them too. Perhaps the real fault lies in most people’s faculties and not in education.
I posit that any intelligent person can become good at anything with a little patience, discipline, and study. I also posit that there are many people with deficient faculties who make it through their MD, JD, and even an Economics Ph.D…
Without fear of the unknown
I was speaking of fear that can be bought and sold, Zapho.
I dunno whats worse fear or bullshit…but i do know i feel more inclined towards bullshit personally
Whats even more scary than fear and bullshit is the fact everything we know now in the future will eventually turn out to be bullshit anyway
perspection?
I thought inventing words was my territory?
Merde de Toro
Economics is not a science…
it won’t be one until more engineers, physicists, biologists, and chemists, take up the ART
and apply Scientific Principles and Theories to its analysis…
To qualify as a science, there would have to be some element of experimentation and verifiable results required…
and not just hypothetical rhetoric (which is predominately the case at the moment)
But there is some glimmer of hope on the horizon…
Thanx to fellows such as Keen and Minsky…
But the fact still remains that god didnt let on about all that much either which still leaves us with fear…and now..unfortunately..bullshit
Without fear of the unknown there can be no religion…Which is why we invented science…which has only taught us how little we know.
Derrida maintains that the privilege of logos (spoken word of god) over the written syllabic word (signifier) can only be maintained by the metaphysics of presence because all meaning is relative to the trace- or dust-like signifier- which changes with time and usage.
We are dancing back to the middle ages. Science is only science if the scientist is one of the priesthood (or as Athreya maintains: a part of the discursive reality maintained within the context of state sanction).
This is why Athreya insists economics is a science.
The real meaning of any word lies within the perspection of the eye of the beholder. The implication of god-incarnation within the context of the logos is only maintained in an atmosphere of venal fear.
….ALL your bullshit lives…But remember this..It’s ALL…BULLSHIT
Now i’m sure all of you will be chomping at the bit to get out there in the real world after this class is over.
But after the thrill of the fancy clothes, fast car, hot secrataries and the portly sum you will recieve in the form of a weekly pay check finally wears off the word BULLSHIT will mysteriously creep back into your vocabulary right about the time you start counting down the days till your retirement and hoping a completely mental breakdown wont ruin your retirement and superannuation funds.
You will look back on this warning and realise I was correct all along..Who knows, bullshit might become your favourite word…You might even get bullshit wallpaper in your bullshit house which you worked your bullshit asses off for
I’m just a stupid college grad, degrees in Biology and Chemistry, who has been in R&D, sales, and management for 30 years, the last 15 being president of a company employing 50 people.
I must be totally ignorant for believing lowering the income, estate, and capital gains taxes on the wealthy, forcing “free trade” on the US, doing away with the separation of commercial and investment banking, relaxing capital requirements on financial institutions, allowing banking mega-mergers, and refusing to properly regulate derivatives and other exotic financial instruments were ALL VERY BAD IDEAS.
Peons like us just have to suffer with the decisions these “experts” make I guess. Maybe it is easier when no one criticizes your actions, no matter what misery or hardship they bring to others, but these clowns should remember PhD diplomas are no protection from a pissed-off crowd of broke “dumdasses” armed with pitchforks.
Yes Zaphodity…
The Bullshit resounds with a reek replete…
But there will never be a PEAK in either BS or ignorance…
those are two non-trading utilities that will never have the opportunity to be manipulated…
Of course, a PhD economist might disagree with me…
BTW
the definition I am using for utility is this one:
9. a grade of beef immediately below commercial.
I think in economics class the first thing that should be taught is “everything you learn in this classroom will eventually turn out to be bullshit”
How the world actually operates has very little to do with what you will be learning from these textbooks.
The only thing to keep in mind is that it will ALL be bullshit and the textbooks themselves are made from recycled toilet paper.
These are the only 2 certainties you will ever learn in this class.
Have you read the Koran, Mother?
“but truth will be maintained by the logos of state-sanctioned science”
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65L6IA20100622
priest- John Kessler
logos- methane is high
proximity- appointed by Obama stimulus funding
formal essence of presence- Reuters/state-sanction
@Snoot
A response to be expected.. Still I’m not sure you’d be any good as a lawyer..
I seem to recall recently that the emails between bloggers are now being subpoenaed, looks like building heretical conspiracy cases to me.
Hmmm an oilfield with estimated 300 million barrels of oil was discovered in the North Sea..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2010/jun/28/premieroil
That will last them exacly 150 days..
The reason i’m correct in saying that is because theres no way you could run a company like that and not have it go bankrupt…which meanssss books are cooked…which meansssss ITS ALL BULLSHIT !
Now the reason I think this is true is because its the most unlikely, unbelieveable, no way it could possibly work kind of conclusion. With my experience in the real world and that its basically all bullshit well then my conclusion is correct then. A precarious balancing of various degrees and quantities of bullshit on a global scale…THATS global economics.
@Mother:
Define your application of the term ‘reverent’, and I’ll answer your question.
So far all i’ve learned is that money is basically debt and the whole system is based on bullshit ? am I correct with this assumption ?
Why did I say, ‘same old/same old’?
“The reassuring evidence within which the Western tradition had to organize itself and must continue to live would therefore be as follows: the order of the signified is never contemporary, is at best the subtly discrepant inverse or parallel-discrepant by the time of a breath-from the order of the signifier. And the sign must be the unity of a heterogeneity, since the signified (sense of thing, noeme or reality) is not in itself a signifier, a trace: in any case is not constituted in its sense by it’s relationship with a possible trace. The formal essence of the signified is presence, and the privilege of its proximity to the logos as the phone is the privilege of presence.”
Jacques Derrida: Of Grammatology pg 18
Another way of putting it: god within the logos changeth not. Logos is the spoken word-the word maintained by religious authority- our e-verify.
Its a way of beating change withing the context of some nebulous, arbitrary mystical revelation called ‘truth’. Listen to that ringing of the eucharist bells.
Now we are moving to a dialectic useful to a shared reality: but truth will be maintained by the logos of state-sanctioned science.
Athreya wishes to maintain position within the priesthood. But his time is passing.
Home of the Brave….what ? Not very specific on what type of brave.
The writer is exasperated that (what he thinks are light weight) bloggers are giving people bad information. But he doesn’t explain why this bothers him. He admits early on that economics is basically the result of the millions of choices that people make, acting in their own self interest. Perhaps he doesn’t like the choices people are making because it is not benefiting *his* self interest?
But the fact they are as vigilant as as lepers keeping count of their fingers and toes is VERY admirable. The Baker Street Irregulars !
Correction Franky, most the people in here could barely manage to tie their own shoelaces
“I know nothing!” ~ Schultz… I was just lucky to buy physical gold and silver for my parents in early 2003 when I was a broker at a major Wall Street firm… My allocation is the same. Long real money and prepared for severe political risk here in the Home of the Brave. There is going to be a lot of dis-information coming our way…
I should have put
*stagflation = stagflation average.
Please quit advertising that stupidity by bringing it up and lets stick to the topic of the post…which is the pdf document attached to it.
Talk – Naomi Wolf – The End of America
it’s a long one (47:47mins)
towards the end:
“The Founders did not intend for us to delegate the defence of liberty to a professional class of pundit or politician or institutional scholars.” If managing the money supply doesn’t contravene that I don’t know what does! The quote is true no matter what country you live in.
Although we might be heading for stagflation, this article reeks of the same arrogance that allows a govt to put used by dates on the currency in hyperinflation to create ‘liquidity’ and confiscate gold in times of Depression plus all the other crimes against humanity and liberty in the financial and political world.
- You dont need economic degree to see that debt is not good.
- You dont need economic degree to see that spending is not a way for growth
Average house price in Canada is 7x average income. At the peak of housing bubble in USA it was 5x
———————————————-
gold down on coffee hits GS trading desk keyboard..
@Snoot
Still am I right to say you use literary references in quite an irreverent way, like you don’t really care?
So lets leave out the religion side and stop inventing ways to hate them just because you made a mistake by invading a muslim country.
If I remember correctly you went in to save their world or something like that…How the hell its turned into ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL is an example of american stupidity
Frances quotes the Koran..
Fact is mother most americans would never have even heard of the Koran or Muslims if A. they weren’t Cat Stephens fans or B. because your killing them in a war.
Cleetus is picking his nose out in the hogpen, Dedo.
Heh, Lookey:
http://books.google.com/books?id=c_kgAmFbvP0C&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=derrida+logos+catholic+church&source=bl&ots=Plql9B0jOG&sig=HU0eztsJWzs24cchY2Sb-7MbhHQ&hl=en&ei=grgoTJDJBcH58Ab09sjoDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CB4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false
The reference-point of Lutheran dissidence against the logos of the church is applicable to our discussion, Dedeeo. Remember how Merkel’s actions were compared to Luther when she outlawed shorts? Now, I don’t agree that Merkel is anything akin to Luther, but I do find the shifts in authority over time to be remarkably similar.
The logos is defined by the state. Unfortunately, the German spirit of the Reformation was lost in Volkisch nationalism.
“The latter (German Reformation) must be recognized as the religious form of the rationality that opposes the logos, the eidos and especially the hypothesis to the dogma of the ecclesiastical institution. One could consider the Reformation at this point as the critique of instituted truth, of the institutional dogmatism that freezes the interpretation of scripture…’The Reformation put the German spirit at the heart of history’”
So basically the Federal Reserve is the person you cant see who’s behind you shafting the hell out of you. That’s a bit of a worry I think.
@Dedo. Nice troll.
You make foraging for nuts and berries sound like a bad thing.
Since when was slaving away in a factory the zenith of human achievement?
Economics was not named “The Dismal Science” for no reason! I venture to say that most of the aformentioned “Economists” have classical recto-crainal inversion!
Found this and thought it was interesting.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10489
@Frances,…..You can take the girl out of the cheerleader,……but ya can’t take the cheerleader outa da girl !!
I got flaming vuvuzela’s AND a freakin fat bumbelbee!!
Frances quotes the Koran..
@Frances,…That’s more like it!!,…..now you’re thunkin’,..
BTW: where’s Cleetus,..with a C ? ; )
@Dedo:
Shall I purchase a whistle?
@Frances,….”In the beginning was the word. And the word was with god. And the word was god….”
What sort of piss ant retort is that!!
white hunter,……Please tell me how you would nurture a child,.if you let if roam free,…I’m intrigued ?
@Frances,…”Murder is a piss-ass poor management style, Dedo. That is the intent of our monetary authorities: is it not?”
So, what steps have you made to stop this management style ?
HUH !!
Well I’m glad that’s all cleared up. I can go back to spending my days looking at pictures of titties on the internet. Plus, gold is getting killed. Can it get any better?
This is an example of the de-democratizing of all wisdom and knowledge. The elites crowd want you to believe in them not your self. This is also why the noun; “Spirit”, is some times capitalized and sometimes not. King James did not want the Spirit of God passed around to liberally as if he had any thing to say about it, either.
Tropical Storm Alex to become a Cat 2 Hurricane before landfall near the US-Mexico border sometime Thursday night. The cone extends to the Houston Area where 6 million people live and nearly a third of US Refineries are.
Great link, Mep!!!
@Frances,…Still haven’t answered my question,….
In the beginning was the word. And the word was with god. And the word was god….
same old/same old
@ Scott – At least Krugman is right in calling out those who are pushing austerity measures and yelling “inflation!”:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/opinion/28krugman.html?dbk
free men are not to be “managed.”
I very much doubt, many on this forum, have a clue, on how to manage 6 people,..let alone 6 billion : )
Murder is a piss-ass poor management style, Dedo. That is the intent of our monetary authorities: is it not?
Reduce the population; recycle authoritarian capitalism via a Hegelian dialetic, reuse brute force.
free men are not to be “managed.”
First simple question i’d like to ask the author of this PDF is this:
Who comprises the Federal Reserve ? Names, Companys banks etc ?
Until you answer that…i’m not particularly interested in reading the last 4 pages of your PDF.
I can see where the author is coming from, but any human endeavor that requires a PhD. to understand will be problematic when applied to political policies. The best solution is to allow people to pursue knowledge and benefit by it individually. The collectivist implementation of policy is corrupting and the corruption can be fueled by the misguided bloggers, or the PhD’s such as Krugman. I’d rather be free to decide, so I’d like to see the FED RESERVE go, and a return to limited government.
Ha Ha! I couldn’t get past the expression “lay” public. A “lay” person is anyone who is not part of the clergy. So the author must consider himself a priest of economics. It’s a priesthood now, with Ben Bernanke the High Priest.
@Frances,…Still haven’t answered my question,….
Need an economics degree to accurately predict the economy? No, all it took was the recognition that there is this an almost direct correlation between the moral panic pushed in laws and media and how much they are looting. That is why I was years and years ahead of many economists in the blogosphere, screaming bloody murder about the money they are looting.
When they continue to run TV programming like “To Catch a Predator” for 5 hours straight, like last night, you know massive looting is still going on.
When I commented here previously that it didn’t take a Col. L. Fletcher Prouty, to tell us who is controlling Goldman Sachs, it is because we knew what 3 letter agency controlled even Howard Hughes back when and why.
@Chundernuts,….If you were left alone,..you’d still be foraging for nuts and berries, in the forest.
So try not to knock the very system that was created for your benefit (albeit more so, someone else’s), in order that you don’t have to change.
I very much doubt, many on this forum, have a clue, on how to manage 6 people,..let alone 6 billion : )
@Dedo:
I’m in that barrel bobbing about the rapids on the way to the falls, Dedo. I jumped off the raft: it was being equipped with sails and a motor, but no compass. The patriots commandeering the raft assured me they had the compass seeing as George Washington was at the helm. But I figured the world has changed a bit since George’s day.
It’s a bit bumpy and primitive, but I’ll take my chances.
What to learn from this pdf; continue to be sceptical to the experts and for those who forgot to remain sceptical to the blogosphere – start doing that again.
Keep an open mind and NEVER believe what your government tells you is another good one..Then again don’t be gullible enough to believe everything.
What is it they call it ? the scientific method ? Come to a conclusion based on facts.
@Dedo. Most people ‘need’ to be left alone, not ‘managed’ by self appointed
guardians of right and wrong.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism.
Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
I don’t know enough about economics to give an educated opinion..I’m still learning how it works..I have a basic understanding of it much like one has a basic understanding that you can’t stop a car traveling at 200km an hour by standing in front of it.
@Frances,…I’m a realist,…but thanks for thinking of muah
“Fact: Most folk “need” managing!,……end of story”
Shall we have Kartik Athreya babysit you, Dedo? Or are you not “most people”?
@Frances,….I put it to you, that most folk wouldn’t have a clue what you’re on about.
Which, to my mind,..equates to the fact, you’re more qualified than them to understand certain philosophical standpoints,. and hence are more equipped to lead !
Am I right,..or am I right?
Do’ya fancy the job?
What to learn from this pdf; continue to be sceptical to the experts and for those who forgot to remain sceptical to the blogosphere – start doing that again.
James Turk is comparing hyperinflation and currency failure in this video. Interesting parallel with the Yuan in this discussion. It goes without saying that another currency failure is set to happen somewhere in the world economy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViwSURWps7Y&feature=player_embedded
Stacy,
I don’t want the union to break up but it very well could. The US in term of the gap between Rich and people, race, relligion, Urban and rural is more divided than anytime in our history.
Remember, Dedo, wealth must couple with power or it will not be tolerated.
I’m a idealist
I like to link TRUTH with TRUST
Seems lacking these days
The “need theory” being provided the public is the very essence of Platonic/Hegelian discursive reality. It is being tooled at the levels of the UN/UNESCO: a necessity-driven reality reliant on the ‘science’ which Obama promised to elevate in his inauguration speech. Looks like that Richmond Fed PHD is “out-of-the-loop”:
http://portal.unesco.org/science/en/ev.php-URL_ID=5296&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html
@Batman
Canada is supposed to have a “hard” asset currency, I have my my doubts when I think about Ontario Québec and Eastern Canada. Oil is nice but it won’t be enough. Call it the big Canadian illusion. Hard assets are supposed to be sexy Batman. Canada has a soft belly. It’s called USA.
Stacy,
Have you ever heard of the second Vermont Republic movement? It wants northern New england to succeed from the union. I actually think a Northeast Republic of New York State, New England, New Jersey could actually do quite well.
I have a B.F.A. Does that help in any way?
“How would you create a system,..where everyone’s opinion (no matter there qualifications) counts?
I’m all ears !”
Dedo, the reason people are turning to the ‘blogosphere’ for information is because the “science” of economics has failed the world. We need a need theory, say. The man that wrote that essay insists science is involved in economics, but he is merely wailing about the Platonic Republic of US/FED Central Banking Authority losing power.
You remember what Arendt wrote about wealth not manifest with power? The masses turn against that wealth.
Here’s Arendt about “opinion and truth”:
“Plato, in his famous fight against the ancient Sophists, discovered that their “universal art of enchanting the mind by arguments” (Phaedrus 261) had nothing to do with truth but aimed at opinions which by their very nature are changing, and which are valid only “at the time of the agreement and as long as the agreement lasts” (Theaetetus 172). He also discovered the very insecure position of truth in the world, for from “opinions come persuasion and not from truth” (Phaedrus 260) The most striking difference between ancient and modern sophists is that the ancients were satisfied with a passing victory of the argument at the expense of truth, whereas the moderns want a more lasting victory at the expense of reality.” (pg 18, The Origins of Totalitarianism)
Now I stand apart from Adrendt on this position for she veered toward a narrow corridor of intellectual discourse maintained by the priesthood (call it discursive reality)_which is the very basis for that essay Stacy linked.
I ask you, Dedo:
“What is truth?”
Where’s the Sex ?
Definitely not Anglo Saxon Enough.
Canadian slave taxpayers on hook for 700 billion dollars of canadian banksters bad real estate loans. Now that’s unreported news from paradise Canada.
http://www.thecomingdepression.net/main-street/bankruptcy-main-street/canadian-banking-haven-myth-exposed/
The G20 sweet hart is just a little canadian pimp. As in debt and screwed as the UK and the USA. Sorry. It’s the sad truth.
@Frances,..I agree,.but you didn’t answer my question,..did ya : )
@Dedo:
All hegemons (this writer included) lack perspective: they believe that life changeth not. Guess what? The writer is working for a moribund system.
Joke’s on him.
Senator Robert C Byrd has died at age 91. My daad is 53 and he was a year old when Byrd was elected to the US Senate.
@Stacy:
Did you note this sentence?
“Naifs write books, and sell many of them to.”
Yes, those unencumbered by the sort of complicit intent manifest within the web of the central banking system!
“inexperienced person, innocent – a person who lacks knowledge of evil”
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/naif
& the £ is doing fine……….TOB ????
“Jimmy” playing Liverpool (Bastard!)
Mike
This document is a terrible read. It’s needlessly wordy as if written with a thesaurus in hand. The author’s argument is pointless.
@snoot – yes, we just recorded an episode of Keiser Report; I noted ‘lay person’ as well . . . sounds like he is speaking from the Vatican circa 1520
I had heard that economics theory had been turned on its head due to the fiasco that has happened. The text books teach an earlier model and the present situation doesn’t “fit” the model. So the writer can be pompous and very wrong without even trying. Communication seems to be an issue bandying words around like cathedra, doesn’t infuse confidence.
Bottom line is that the world sought out American investments because they could be trusted to give you your money back with a little growth in the principle. Confidence turned into a confidence game. Liars and charlatans on Wall Street don’t give me much confidence to invest in the U.S.A.
Wage differentials can’t be a base for growth in the world’s economy.
The Chicago school and Keynes are really blood brothers. Along with the private central bank they lead to state financial ruin. The Chicago School believes that wealth will trickle down and doesn’t see large budget debts as a problem.
Fact: Most folk “need” managing!,……end of story
@Frances,…..”Priesthood”,…
How would you create a system,..where everyone’s opinion (no matter there qualifications) counts?
I’m all ears !
@jfv
That explains the petulant lazy housewife mentality..
The US economy runs on extortion, caste metality and suicidal tendencies. How can any economist claim to have anything to offer if it is purely analytical. Chaingang for all of them.
As far as i know the word ‘economy’ is derived from the Greek word ‘Oikos’ meaning ‘house’. Economy is the management of a household.
That makes everybody that runs a household, be it a private family household, a business or governing public money, entitled to have an opnion on all economic aspect that have an effect on their ‘Oikos’ !
Economics isn’t science, it changes with hearts and minds and emotions – human behaviour and situation. And don’t forget, science evolves too as time goes.
There are experts on economics and there are experts on reading about economics.
Sometimes a five year old can say the wisest truest soundest thing that an adult could never had imagined or said himself.
I only read the first three lines and it angered me, to claim “monopoly” on knowledge is a dangerous path to walk on, but I forget myself and should continue reading . . .
@Stacy
Canada “real” debt seeps to 131 of GDP. Ouuups ! Another PIIGS, an anglos-saxon piigs en plus !
Way to go Stephen Harper, our “Conservative” lean and mean government. Right wing USA bullshit. The word “conservative” means nothing today. NOTHING. Not with these out of this world numbers. And Canada is supposed to Shangrila, paradise of the G20. Conservative canadian paradise lost.
http://www.thecomingdepression.net/countries/north-america/canadas-real-debt-seeps-to-131-per-cent-per-gdp/
ha ha ha sounds like he had his feelings hurt.
Comedy Gold … laughing away also… all he needs is a ounce of common
I’m only equipped with hard science degrees the net and propaganda TV.
So I still think 911 was a inside job…!
I also think that this DOUBLE DIP is a game changer and is taking this shit with it!
Good Lord! What a snoot! Which “economic system” is the writer referring to: the sdr-index/account system of the monetary authorities, or the dollar-index-exchange system?
The term “lay persons” surely implies a priesthood of which the author finds himself a member. Does he wear the vestments?
My opinion is,……If you want to make some changes,…..go ahead!
But make sure you can walk,….before you try and run,…
most just run off of their mouths,…… (hey mother) it’s always been this way,…
@All,……The fact of the matter is,…none of you geeks are running things,…Why not? : )
Get over yourselves,..and wake up
Why Do Intellectuals Oppose Capitalism? by Robert Nozick
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/cpr-20n1-1.html
Dedo
I aint running a country. Just beating a dead horse by complaining about people that would and will take Athreya’s opinion seriously because he has a PhD.
There are too many that willing accept someone’s opinion because they have a degree in the area of a said discussion. Even without any facts provided.
Greenspan is an economist. Does that asshole know something I don’t know ? I know markets directly because it’s my own fuckin money that I risk. Does Greenspan know something about raw personal risk ?
Naturally not at all. These economist always talk about economy like an abstract concept.The economy in the real world where is the one when you risk it’s your own personal risk. I could spit and puke on these arrogant economists, these shits that pretend knowing something that others don’t know. Try having you own business and making a living by your our means, with your own capital, you FED parasite.
It just shows the utter contempt of these scumbags. Exactly the same mentality as BP ceo. The “small people” know nothing about economics. Leave to Lord Bernanke and his bums.
“I have a degree in XYZ” = Argument from authority = Reply: “Then you should be well practiced at providing both logic and evidence to back your claims.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Economics is Hard. Don’t Let Bloggers Tell You Otherwise
It should be re-named:
Building ponzi schemes is Hard. Don’t Let Bloggers enlighten you.
We have countless examples of deliberate attempts to mislead by politicians, often as a result of the influence of ‘trendy’ economic theory such as Chicago school. Fustration has risen to such a degree that amateurs feel compelled to get involved and translate economic latin into a language the ‘lay’ can understand – only an economic criminal could object to that. NB. Amateur as in for the love of their subject – no slight here… amateurs have a passion for their subject head and shoulders above professionals.
If you cannot run your bath you get your feet wet. If you cannot get involved in the macro or micro economic debate you might get your life swept away.
Right, so a guy that always drank the cool aid is going to instruct those that are inquisitive? It is an arrogant piece with no real argument other than that there ‘economists’ have spend a long time piecing together models and nomenclature. The result is evident around us: crap. 50 years of oil wealth and the result is slavery and debt. So blog on people!
My new antisocial neighbours like to play the radio real loud. Does anyone know where I can get a transmitter so I at least have a choice what to listen to?
Please share with everyone you know. Those who are fattened-up and dumbed-down for slaughter will likely ignore you and possibly even resent you. All you can do as a caring individual is to educate yourself, be vigilant, and try to help others.
This is fairly easy … watch some videos and think a bit.
http://csper.org/
The sheer arrogance and ignorance of that essay has left me speechless.
Cincitucky,….”Its unfortunate that people will eat up this guys BS instead of applying one ounce of critical/cynical thinking ”
I don’t see you running any country !,…or have I got my blinkers on?
@Danny,….it’s fine to talk the talk.. but to walk the talk is different entirely!
Taking an observers stand point,..these guys at the top are doing very well indeed,..by comparison.
By comparison, I mean,…compared to all the opinionators out there,…
you can’t deny that ! : )
More irritating arrogance from someone believes in entitlement.
Its unfortunate that people will eat up this guys BS instead of applying one ounce of critical/cynical thinking to why we should accept his point of view.
I’ll put money down on that time frame @Herbert. It’ll be approx. three days after the commoners’ credit cards are frozen to prevent purchases.
Also @Herbert, are you sure the correct heretics will be burned?
Comedy Gold?
I laughed
What a pompous git. People like this like to mystify economics/economists, make it/them into some newfangled preisthood. Self-thought people like Mish completely destroy this argument off the bat. Mish got deflation before any “experts” even got out of bed in the morning. Self-flagellating is rampant with these lads.
Having a qualification in something doesn’t mean that your any good at it – and its the same the other way round. Modern day communications are such that an education is not confined to the four walls of a classroom and a college degree. Education is everywhere if you want it.
In this essay, I argue that neither non-economist bloggers, nor economists who portray economics —especially macroeconomic policy— as a simple enterprise with clear conclusions, are likely to contibute any insight to discussion of economics and, as a result, should be ignored by an open-minded lay public. Kartik Athreya
No, I think I’ll ignore pompous, conceited asses like Kartik instead. But hey Mr. Athreya, you work for a central bank. Why should anyone not assume that you are a bought and paid for intellectual?
First we are tagged as stupid(cant possibly understand), then ignorent(uneducated) now heretical(threats of wholesale national incarceration by facism-aka EU threats toPIIGS) and for individual dissenters the insanity label (the old chemical straight jacket move).
From now on lets stop the MAD MAX KEISER LABEL and rebrand with the true and proper label WISE MAX KEISER.
The guy obviously talks a lot of sense,…most folk are unable to run a bath efficiently, .let alone a business, on a macro scale.
But it’s good to let folk sound out their “opinions”,..it gives the impression they’re in control! (an old tactic) : )
Hence, the Internet,…and Bloggosphere
People without a degree in politics should not proffer any opinion on the subject, anything they have to say should be ignored, they add nothing to the dialogue.
oops, meant to include this vid on COREXIT and the oil spill, luckily for us all, BP care about the small people:
COREXIT is Eating Through Boats in the Gulf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c37-Fialg
@Stacy, can you glam up the article and include a few celebrities in the summary so it interests us lay people, please