Stacy Summary: This book sounds interesting, Neoconservatism: An Obituary for an Idea. Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News, of course, gives these guys so much air time to indoctrinate Americans into their quasi fascist cult. Here’s one source of info on who’s who in neoconservatism. Here is Ron Paul’s speech, “Neo-Conned”. I can think of no other group in the world that has done so much to destroy America as the neoconservatives. Their members are the primary architects of the wars currently bankrupting the nation (not to mention, murdering tens of thousands around the world) and of the legal and cultural arguments for ridding Americans of most of the Constitutional rights on which the nation was founded. And it is because of this fascist movement that the whole left / right, Red State / Blue State exists as the orchestrated Straussian sideshow it is. Prior to the neocons becoming the Republican party, there was at least a more genuine liberal / conservative choice and debate. Now you just have Big Government Dems and the even Bigger Government Republicans.
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We are in Iraq for oil and natural gas. We are in Afghanistan for its mineral wealth including lithium and rare earth elements. If we end up at war with Iran it actually concerns water, not nuclear weapons. Iraq no longer has the water supply necessary to pump oil.
Neo con politics is theft by stealth or force, whether civil liberties or mineral wealth. It is fundamentally un-American in every aspect and immoral by nature. It promotes elitism and exceptionalism, repudiates democratic values while wrapping itself in the red, white and blue of the flag.
The American wars of greed, the bully takes all, instil anti-Americanism and undermine economic opportunities that normally American companies would have been able to access though conventional business practices.
@ ADAM C
Thanks for engaging with me today made the day go by so much quicker at work…sorry was unable to respond to every question (rebuilding a 4 cycle engine which I changed the cylinder out and rebuilt carb…still doens’t work, frustrated…but getting to go home now so gives me something to do tomorrow) and I am sure we will continue this engagement again at a latter time
back to the grind
“The market is a consumers’ democracy.” this is a fallacy and a misuse of the word Democracy…Democracy demands equality of personhood where one person is fundmentally equal to the other in that his/her/it’s vote counts exactly as much as does any other…the Market reflects no such demand and is subject to the will of Capitol…that peverts the collective WILL..the many may demand Mosquito nets to prevent malaria but unless their is the Capitol their collective pleas will go unaddressed and the Market will still grind out I-Pods…if the Market was a Democracy of equals then we would not be having this arguement
and going back to my little problem with reduction of people to property that those who profess property rights demand…one can regulate a PERSON one can’t regulate a THING/Property…my LAW that says one can’t strike another with a HAMMER has not regulated the HAMMER but PEOPLE…the whole Libertarian NeoCon nonsense dilebrately confuse this issue…so I can regulate and infringe upon what people sell and how they sell it without infringing upon THE MARKET nor enslaved my breathern
“The syndicalists want to transform it into a producers’ democracy.”
YES this is the point of anarchosyndiclism
“This idea is fallacious, for the sole end and purpose of production is consumption.”
I for the life of me have no earthy idea what this means…this does not remove in the least Democratic Production should bow before “Democratic Consumption”…sorry there is nothing to this arguement other than one of aesthetics…he/she favors Consumption because he likes it, ?I favor Production because I like it…and would bet dollar to donuts that if the Consumption was based on Democratic principles and not monatary one’s he/she wouldn’t favor democratizing what the Market is geared towards…so I maintain its a false arguement and intellectually dishonest as I maintain a good chunk of the author’s other points
“In [the syndicalist's] eyes the individual plant or workshop as it exists and operates today is a permanent establishment. It will never change. It will always turn out the same products. He ignores completely the fact that conditions are in a ceaseless flux, and that the industrial structure must be daily adjusted to the solution of new problems.”
No Sysndiclist would ever make this arguement…it is a cariciture of the ideology…quite the opposite…syndiclist would say that one demands more democratic control because of the need to continuously adapt to changing material conditions…sorry Democratic institution can closer reflect changing dynamics in a community or society the any form of hierachical one…yes decession making is easier in autocratic ones (BIDDNESS as it is now constituted is autocratic at its best and totalitarian at its worst) but history has shown us that Autocratic bodies change slower than democratic ones.
the author I believe is not engaged in meaningful discussion but grinding axes…COOL I do this from time to time…but hope I try to maintain some semblance intellectual honesty…I may cliff notes my oppositions ideas but do not completely reframe them to suit my ends…
my ideology is not set in granite but is hard enough to sustain me through life…and I recognize the flaws in my philosphies
@chArles
Thanks for your reply.
ok back again
“Are you arguing the actions of a capitalist only benefit him/herself?”
yes they are primarily to the benifit of the individual that what it means by definition…now while Alexander conquering the world brought the Helenistic tradition to greater prominence and I sorta favor that I shan’t say it was worth it or to the greater good or any other such nonsense…what he did he did out of service to self any ancilary benifits do not factor into the equation morally speaking…otherwise Annabella slavery should be praised for extending the natural life span of African slaves…it gets worst too Colonolilism, Imperilalism WARS all have “benifited” individuals and socities
“Are you arguing for individual property rights to enable personal autonomy and security of person and property OR are you arguing for collective rights to property and thus collective decisions over property and the actions of people?”
this is hard to fashion truthfully…Locke knew there was a thorn inside his theory and that was the finite nature of the World…so there is his caveat of “As good and of the same quaility” in saying that one was free to mix one’s labor with the material sbubstence and thus secure ownership…this is a problem that both Capitolist and socialist overlooked in crafting their individual theories..they both accept and demand infinite growth to ensure material progress…
while I don’t buy the whole PEAK EVERYTHING movement I do believe there is limits to the material world…this limits can only be recognized collectively which constrains “individual autonomy” in a certian manner namely doing as one pleased with the material world regaurdless of its impact upon others…this in my opinine isn’t the same enfrindgement upon a person as BONDAGE…and there is degrees…so we are in a balencing act…I try to fudge the issue with the personal individual is autonomous and secured in self (able to decide any and all issues that only reflect upon self)…when in relation to the material world he/she/it will be in relation to others and therefore all decesions must take into account the other
is this perfect…HE!# NO!!! I recognize this
no more answers…
“The root of the syndicalist idea is to be seen in the belief that entrepreneurs and capitalists are irresponsible autocrats”
Strawman arguement no Syndiclist would make that arguement other to rouse the troops…if one is curious as to what most syndiclist accept or argue…one can’t beat Rudolph Rockers Anarchosyndiclistn also rocker’s Nationalism and Culture would offer one of the best primers of and Anarchist picture of Western Civilization…along with the normal junk of Noam Choamsky and Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia…gives an honest broker account of the last time Anarchism was given an honest try on Catalonia and Barceleona during the Spainish War
@chArles
Thanks for your reply.
>> I will oppose all forms of relations that people “freely” enter into that are explotive….I won’t do the dance either of “if the relation were explotive by it basic nature it could never be classified as freely undertaken”
Can you provide examples of what you mean by exploitative given the scenario of someone voluntarily making a contract with another party.
A few maxims of law might be useful in considering how the law can provide remedy for bad faith in voluntary contracts:
#A contract founded on a base and unlawful consideration, or against good morals, is null.
#He who contracts, knows, or ought to know, the quality of the person with whom he contracts, otherwise he is not excusable.
# A concealed fault is equal to a deceit.
# He is not deceived who knows himself to be deceived.
# Let him who wishes to be deceived, be deceived.
http://ecclesia.org/truth/maxims.html
>> I try to maintain balence personal autonomy with equality
If I may, this sounds like a passionate argument for adherence to common law to which everyone has an equal access.
>> I know I slide on the question of property rights
If the below proof of property rights is valid, you have proved both your property and your rights to it by engaging in our exchange of questions.
Freedomain Radio: A Proof of Property Rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tobN6iY4iIs
“It is impossible to argue against property without using property.”
Would you agree?
and for the record not a fan of RAWLS he is willing to accept more inequality than I would tolerate because he maintains that it is needed to increase progress…I question this concept in toltality…please forgive the jumpiness of my arguements working on tools and taking care of cust. inbetween my typing
I know I slide on the question of property rights…but as an old boy who still favors Marx more than is popular in the modern era…I still succomb to a normative claim against capitol for theft of labors value…so still working through this
as to this question “So, you support ALL voluntary relations, yet oppose the voluntary relations you don’t like? Isn’t this an inconsistency?”
yea I’ll cop to that…I will oppose all forms of relations that people “freely” enter into that are explotive….I won’t do the dance either of “if the relation were explotive by it basic nature it could never be classified as freely undertaken” that modern Libertarians do to dance away from Slavery
I think the ideaology I try to maintain balence personal autonomy with equality…if I am to err it would be on the side of equality because I maitain it ensures stability and dictates of personal empathy make this demand upon me…so if one wishes to reduces my arguement to one a Yea Boo…I will accept that and willing go into the public domain with them as they stand because I don’t believe I need a giant speghetti monster (GOD, Transedental TRUTH, or REASON} in the sky for my ideas to garner acceptence…an honest debate my side wins
even Nozick admitted that Rawls system would be the one he would accept therefore his little venture was intellectal masturbation
@chArles
>> Property Rights sound purdy but there is no foundation to this RIGHT or any RIGHT it is habit
Can YOU explain why this is so?
Thanks.
@chArles
Thanks for the reply.
>> Capitolism is predicated upon self enrichment
Are you arguing the actions of a capitalist only benefit him/herself?
>> it is worth it for the increased security and personal autonomy…but that is for us collectivally to decide
Are you arguing for individual property rights to enable personal autonomy and security of person and property OR are you arguing for collective rights to property and thus collective decisions over property and the actions of people?
>> I admit fully my system is unable to maintain the current world levels of production…so there would be a lost in some material comfort
Are any of the following criticisms of syndicalism valid?
Mises Institute — The Fallacies of Syndicalism
‘The root of the syndicalist idea is to be seen in the belief that entrepreneurs and capitalists are irresponsible autocrats who are free to conduct their affairs arbitrarily. The fundamental error of this argument is obvious. The entrepreneurs and capitalists are not irresponsible autocrats. They are unconditionally subject to the sovereignty of the consumers. The market is a consumers’ democracy. The syndicalists want to transform it into a producers’ democracy. This idea is fallacious, for the sole end and purpose of production is consumption.
Under the competitive conditions of the unhampered market economy the entrepreneurs are forced to improve technological methods of production without regard to the vested interests of the workers. The employer is forced never to pay workers more than corresponds to the consumers’ appraisal of their achievements. …consumers are not prepared to pay more for any commodity merely because the worker has a large family.
In [the syndicalist's] eyes the individual plant or workshop as it exists and operates today is a permanent establishment. It will never change. It will always turn out the same products. He ignores completely the fact that conditions are in a ceaseless flux, and that the industrial structure must be daily adjusted to the solution of new problems. His world view is stationary. It does not allow for new branches of business, new products, and new and better methods for manufacturing the old products. Thus the syndicalist ignores the essential problems of entrepreneurship: providing the capital for new industries and the expansion of already existing industries, restricting outfits for the products of which demand drops, technological improvement. It is not unfair to call syndicalism the economic philosophy of short-sighted people
http://mises.org/humanaction/chap33sec2.asp
returning to my ramble
Lockean Property Rights are a corner stone of modern Western Thought just as much as the Great Unmoved Mover was before him….but our need for Causality lead us to that Aritsitiliean conception but when this is pushed on there ain’t much to it…Property Rights sound purdy but there is no foundation to this RIGHT or any RIGHT it is habit…and a Habit that is destructive and catches its purponets in easy snares… namely Suicide and Slavery…the little appeal to reason they use to try to unsnare themselves don’t work…unless your are under the habit to begin with…Locke created this little folly to rationalize his betters owning of that which was given in Common…and ever since it has entrapped everyone from Marx to Alan Greenspan
@ Adam at work so answering here and there as time permits
“Why would it be that there is only one party (A) who has food to offer?”
as you have rightly pointed out relations in a society are multi spectral…ABCDEFGH and so forth…an Anarchist would maintain that individual relations are what WE are striving for…to turn every encounter into an “ENDS” based encounter (using the Kantian conception)…and in every exchange no party can benifit greater than the other…Capitolism is predicated upon self enrichment I am not making a Normative claim here…I am not ascribing whether this is good or bad.
the problem of complexity (ABCDEFG) leads a large swath of my brethern into the Primitive anarchist camp…because of the nature of production has so drastically altered human interaction they wish to roll back the clock to aid in maintaining this ENDs based relation…I am in the anarcho-syndiclist fraction that wishes to hold onto some of the material advances via democratic control over the means of production…but admit in my system the balence of retaining personal autonomy and equality at the same time is HARD if not impossible…I admit fully my system is unable to maintain the current world levels of production…so there would be a lost in some material comfort…but would argue that it is worth it for the increased security and personal autonomy…but that is for us collectivally to decide
and sorry Pluristically is the only way we as a species can hope to govern ourselves
sorry for the typos & ommission in my above comments – meant to say
“Google went from ‘good guy’ to MORE BIG BROTHER than Microsoft, or Apple, in just a few years flat”
Also, re Ron Paul’s speech “NEO-CONNED!” in this case, the otherwise insightful Ron Paul is speaking from personal experience: He named his son, Rand Paul, after AYN RAND, one of the infamous Radical Right-Wing (female) GOD-FATHERS of the Neo-Con movement – she’s right up there with Leo Strauss, Milton Friedman, Irving Kristol, and “Dr. Death” Henry Kissinger!!
Wow – Ron Paul, nothing less than the one “Great white hope” of the WASP “heartland” American voters – most of whom arent’ reflexively ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ (eg. Minnesota and Kansas populists, Ohio & Michigan blue-collar workers, etc.) – who feel besieged by minorities, immigrants, and now the Israel war lobby (Neo-Con) dominance of both parties
(which is to say, “America’s entire government, press/media, war department, state department, Big Business, Big Finance, and economic system”) –
– well, THAT Ron Paul named his son after one of the insane icons of the Neo-Con elitists, economy killers, and nuclear (warmongering) extortionists!
Thanks for that, Stacy. re the “google + cia invest in future-spying surveillance”
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/07/exclusive-google-cia/
– well, that didn’t take long! The Chinese say that any dynasty, no matter how well founded, will degenerate to squabbles, incompetent princelings, and incompetence by 3 generations (because the heirs are brought up in an aura of entitlement, privilege, & arrogance), but in this case, Google went from “The Good Guys” to outdoing both Microsoft and Apple as the very icon of “Big Brother” that Apple’s famous 1984 ad spoofed.
Well, why google is at it, compiling “links and connections” between people & events in readily available news sources, one wonders – is anyone at the cia/google “Big Brother” complex allowed to enter “Israel war lobby + American politicians, big finance, and business groups”, because if they did, all those connections would strain even Google’s vaunted archive stacks!
@chArles
>> “WE” oppose all forms of hierarchy…each individual is an autonomous unit with total equality with their fellow humans…and therefore any form of subjegation (EVEN WILLINGLY) we oppose
Sorry, one more.
So, you support ALL voluntary relations, yet oppose the voluntary relations you don’t like? Isn’t this an inconsistency?
@chArles
Thanks for the reply. Hopefully you’ll have time later to come back an answer these few questions:
>> Capitolism demands hierachy period A tells B what to do and buys the others compliance with sheckles at best or threat of starvation at worst….this relation can never be anything other than top down, no matter how you fashion it
You have explained a two-party hierarchy. The obvious question to ask is, what about C, D, E, F, G, H, I… ?
If we expand the number of parties to a model that more resembles reality:
Why would it be that there is only one party (A) who has food to offer?
Would A also own and control all water, energy, and housing?
If so, how did this come to be?
>> “self ownership” because it leads to this kind of abuse with reason … you own a hammer but can never own a person including self
I’m not convinced your argument. I offer the following for you to respond to:
Freedomain Radio: A Proof of Property Rights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tobN6iY4iIs
“It is impossible to argue against property without using property.”
Thanks.
@ Adam C
SORRY i AM OFF FOR WORK SO THIS WILL BE BRIEF….Anarcho capitolist is a nonstarter for the simple fact that to be an anarchist in any faction accepts the concept that “WE” oppose all forms of hierarchy…each individual is an autonomous unit with total equality with their fellow humans…and therefore any form of subjegation (EVEN WILLINGLY) we oppose….Capitolism demands hierachy period A tells B what to do and buys the others compliance with sheckles at best or threat of starvation at worst….this relation can never be anything other than top down, no matter how you fashion it….so all Anarchist from Primitivist, Egotist, Anarchosyndiclist to any other strain find this repallant…I know it is shocking but all Anarchist are socialist but all Socialist aren’t anarchist
before anyone makes the arguement that people can “FREELY” place themselves in subjegation and not allowing this is actually an infringement upon individual autonomy….an Anarchist finds this ludicrious….most dance around the concept and disassociate themeselves with this concept of Lockean “self ownership” because it leads to this kind of abuse with reason that Libertarians and Marxist succomb to….they are more in the Kantian conception which found talk of “self ownership” impossible…you own a hammer but can never own a person including self (Kant needed this for his two prohibitions on slavery and suicide) I wish Kant had further fleshed this concept out….sorry to be brief but must be off to work
“This doesn’t strike us as the work of a handful of committed leftists. It smacks of a campaign that is far wider than that, if only because of it’s clinical sophistication and the additional support, monetary and otherwise that must have been needed to carry it out. And thus we submit to you, dear reader, that it is in fact a power elite promotion and a fascinating one at that – because it shows easily a promotion can be created as the “opinion making” vehicles are thin at best and easily co-opted.”
http://www.thedailybell.com/683/Wikipedia-as-Elite-Propaganda-Mill.html
@chArles
>> anarcho-capitolist…oxy moronic word grouping if I ever heard of it…
Could you explain how anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron?
Thanks.
left, right, all the same to me, the exact same. It’s 50% 50% how I see it, the republicans are no bigger government than the democrats, both the exact same amount, both just as bought out by big banks, both just as corrupt equally as each other. There is only one difference between the two I have noticed over the years. Democrats are social ‘engineers’ and Republicans are war mongers.
Oh, and here’s something; “Wealth Dallas Brothers become SEC Fraud Targets.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100731/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wyly_brothers_insider_trading
@”Hegelian Dialectic”—-
A crass misunderstanding and parodization of the Hegelian dialectic(cf. Fukuyama’s absurd “end of history”) could be posited as a propagandizing arm for the ascent of finance capital’s hegemony over western, mainly US, policy since 1945, or perhaps before.It is similar to the vulgarized “categories” of the Right Hegelians(Bauer bros, etc). in the mid 19th century.
Hegel’s Phenomenology was a radical objective idealism which attempted to map archetypes of the human spirit through history. It was an attempt to explain the French Revolution and Napoleon’s modernization of Europe in the late 18th and early 19th Century. Afterwards Napoleon fell and the reaction of the “Holy Alliance” set in.
To mention Hegel as a real force in contemporary western political propaganda is hilarious and shows a rather infantile understanding of his philosophy. Marx once joked that Hegel has been misused more than Christianity and, likewise, mostly by critical theologians and nationalists. Yes, Hegel did legitimize Prussia’s “constitutional monarchy” as the ideal state in his Philosophy of Right. This was late in his career. After Napoleon was crushed and Metternich’s(Holy Alliance) reaction had solidified.
It is not impossible to “keep it straight”. In fact it’s quite clear. Oligarchies are known by their fruit, not rhetoric. And even the Rhetoric, if intelligently analyzed, shows a clear message wrapped in the same fine phrases. Factionalism is a dumb show for the easily distracted. Blaise Pascal, a brilliant man, stated that man craves distraction no more so than in his pursuit for certainty(Pensees-can’t do accent aigu). Uniforms and titles are presented as authorities and minds duly conform.
A case in point: Our present head of National Intelligence, General Clapper, believed Saddam Hussein and his Super Heroic Sons had Iraq’s WMD smuggled into Syria right before the illegal invasion and bombing of 2003. He stated this on record then and has not recanted it since. President Obama appointed this clown earlier this year. He presented him as a man “eminently qualified”. A falsehood has never been a “negation” of truth. Where’s the Hegelian dialectic in that? Maybe the type that Marx cites in “The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon”—>”As in Old Hegel history repeats itself again and again. They forgot to add, the first time as tragedy and the second time as farce.”(loose paraphrase)
Neo-Conservatism is a reactionary irrationalism. It has think tanks, lobbying groups and many government staffers as expositors(on nearly every network and editorial board of all the major newspapers and magazines). Their work is to mask imperial bloodletting and bloodsucking under the rubrics of “Globalism” and “The War On Terror”. It is insatiably Paranoid and Sociopathic. It peddles constant fear and exceptionalism in the same breath. Two falsely claimed absurdities are not dialectical. They serve the same process. There is no struggle in this false antithesis. Maybe a struggle or inability to be truthful. It, of course, contradicts itself at every step. It is not real or rational. It bases every foreign policy effort on the worst possible case scenario and always without any probable cause. It states it fights for freedom while vigorously suppressing them for the people whose freedom they wish to protect.
Hegel stated the real is rational. Neoconservatives, as mouthpieces for irrationalism, are very real but never rational. Their view of reality is the fetishization of paranoia. Neoconservatism as a policy is irrationalism on a par with Goebbels. It sees a Hitler behind every enemy and yet fails to see it violates the same Nuremberg judgements Hitlerism did with its “regime change pre-emptive strike” foreign policy. War Criminals paint themselves “protectors of freedoms” even as they urge the masses to give up more freedoms in the interests of security. They sell fear(terror) as a drug that requires constant war and a sustained attack on civil liberties as the treatment. There is no dialectical struggle here. Both absurdities aim to consolidate power for the Oligarchs.
None of this has anything to do with Hegel. It has everything to do with a omnipresent 24/7 propaganda machine which scares people into being irrational cheerleaders for crimes against humanity. When they’ve convinced you that your “enemies” aren’t human where’s the crime? Again, Nazi Propaganda did the same thing with Jews, Slavs, etc etc…The Nazis justified every invasion and annexation with “National Security concerns”.
Again, please, keep poor Hegel out of this. Setting reasonable views against the megaphone of irrational propaganda shows no resemblance to the Hegelian Dialectic. One might just as well drag in Socrates with his agonistic, eristic, dialectic and posit a sham struggle is dialectical when it has never been essential or really struggled against.
Keep up the “Bon Travail” Max and Stacy!
in fact I wish they did have a nuke, cuase then israel/us would leave them alone.
Man who coined the phrase Greenhouse Effect says Global warming Poppycock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU_AZ–tg7Y
even if iran gets a nuke its not like they would use it. they just wanna prevent israeli/us aggression.
Tyler Durden (Zero Hedge) looks more and more like he has fallen for the neo-con scam.
Get the banks their money then cut er off for everyone there after.
@Youri Carma
It is not QE if you give people back what they lost. It is the bottom up type action that is the most effective to get things going again, as Max pointed out on several occasions.
@dan valley
Some forms of QE allready active:
In An Attempt To Reliquify Economy, FDIC Starts To Retroactively Pay Tens Of Thousands Of Dollars To Depositors In Failed Banks 22 July 2010, by Tyler Durden (Zero Hedge) http://www.zerohedge.com/article/attempt-reliquify-economy-fdic-retroactively-pays-tens-thousands-dollars-9500-depositors-fai
9,500 Uninsured Depositors Of Failed Banks To Be Reimbursed 22 July 2010, by Bill Zielinski (Problem Bank List) http://problembanklist.com/uninsured-depositors-of-failed-banks-to-be-reimbursed-0137/
Bank reform brings mortgage aid for the unemployed – New law includes funds for foreclosure prevention, rehab of abandoned homes 22 July 2010, by Amy Hoak (MarketWatch) http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-reform-brings-mortgage-aid-for-the-unemployed-2010-07-22
New post: Nomura Sees Fed Issuing QE-Lite Statement On August 10 http://tinyurl.com/2vraaga
Sorry, but neoconservatives are johnny-come-lately wannabes. Neoliberals like Milton Friedman, Freidrich von Hayek and Ludwig von Mises blazed the trail for the neocons (who wouldn’t even know what to call themselves without the prior example), and Ron Paul worships at the feet of these intellectual giants who created the “libertarianism” to sell slavery as liberty.
For a long time, I thought that Ron Paul might be a guy who actually believed in the lofty ideals that neoliberals like Friedman and Mises proclaimed as their own, but then his son opened his stupid mouth and proved otherwise.
Debt is a status symbol… debt is a sign of success… debt is cool… you should want as much debt as you can get… being approved for more debt means you’ve made it
The Most Damaging Propaganda Campaign in History. And its Aimed at You and Me
http://mandelman.ml-implode.com/2010/07/the-most-damaging-propaganda-campaign-in-history-and-its-aimed-at-you-and-me/
No problem. All their loot is now offshore.. Or in Dubai like Haliburton. These neo-cons should ALL be arrested, cout marshalled and put away for eternity on Alcatraz island. All the money is there. They don’t really care if Americans are ruined and raped. It’s of no importance since their own personal interests in the process, were well desserved. Know what. Japaneese establishment thinks the same thing. Russian establishment also. Chineese establishmen also.
It was just less evident in the USA the last 50 years. In 2010 it’s blatant. USA is runned like a crazy country by megalomaniac eugenist madmen billionnaires. A dictatorship operating under the cover of a pseudo democracy. Neo-con madmen. You could call them quasi Nazis. They are more dangerous than Adolf Hitler because they do everything in the name of Liberty. Liberty ? with nake body scans, RDFI chips, internet mass spying, censorship, and naturally massive raping of the taxpayer to cover up their speculative bubbles. Americans are real assholes when I think of the last 10 years. And non content of being solitary assholes, they had to invite all of us in their total stupidities. Them and the godamn British. It’s the same bunch of bastards running the British Empire in the 19th century. That’s the main problem. And that’s why things will have to get much more worse to clean the USA and British imperialist pig stye.
basically, we’re a country of nuts!
the worse part of this is that the “new” Tea Party folks are even crazier than the Neocons or Leftists combined. America is f*cked.
@Dan some of these may help ensure privacy:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/extensions/privacy-security/
Gold in BIS swaps said to have come from bank customer deposits http://bit.ly/a9W8Kd GATA dispatch cautions against owning unallocated gold
C. Bradley Thompson?
He must have watched Adam Curtis’s documentary The Power of Nightmares and knocked this book out overnight. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727#
UPDATE: US Regulators Close Five Banks In Four States http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100730-718129.html
Failed Banks: 2 more – 5 for the week, 22 for the month, and 108 for the year…
LibertyBank Eugene OR 31964 July 30, 2010 July 30, 2010
The Cowlitz Bank Longview WA 22643 July 30, 2010 July 30, 2010
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
Part 2 wasn’t available now is:
Paul Craig Roberts: We Are Almost Past The Point of No Return! – Alex Jones Tv 1/2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlQDDdR3G7A
Paul Craig Roberts: We Are Almost Past The Point of No Return! – Alex Jones Tv 2/2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIPoZvQqkJQ
charles,
It depends if the elites are gotten rid of there is hope. In America you had a staunch libertarian Conservative like Barry Goldwater and a strong New Deal Liberal like Hubert Humphrey who would agrue like hell with each other on the senate and then go out and have a drink together. Today we seem to want to kill each other. The debate misses people like William F Buckley on the right for example.
Antarctica Experiment Discovers Puzzling Space Ray Pattern
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100730/sc_livescience/antarcticaexperimentdiscoverspuzzlingspaceraypattern
@WL good comeback line…but nahhh I’ve danced with you once or twice and know your Quasi Libertarian :wish I was an anarchist” stuff by heart…you decry the STATE as a great infringement on LIBERTY…mimicing the Solo Anarchist rhetoric…but needing to esure your property rights demand a certian amount of enfringment upon “MY” LIBERTY too….sorry State monopoly on Violence is a peace us homo sapiens had to make to ensure our basic survival…we are now trying to strike a balance…but some are dead Give up the Ghost
.
we all play our roles here WL…mine is a washed up Anarchist who is tired of hearing my childhood rehetoric misused by something that calls itself anarcho-capitolist…oxy moronic word grouping if I ever heard of it…
on to another quest for the night…. currently believe that the coarsening of political discourse in this country (America but could aply to all Western Democracies} is a reflection of the collapse of the existing paradigm….whether this collapse leads to a second dark ages or enlightenment s hard to judge…any thoughts?
Whether you use Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome or Safari, here’s how to control your privacy online: http://on.wsj.com/cygNvs
Ron Paul Introduces SEC Transparency Act of 2010 http://shar.es/0nmZW
http://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/eas-studies/torture-based-mind-control-as-a-global-phenomenon/
How Gangsters Are Saving Euro Zone http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704532204575397543634034112.html
Tip: CleanUp!
Free disk space & protect your privacy
All in one easy solution. And all for free!
http://www.stevengould.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=69
Lying Pays Big..real big! And no one cares any more..so LIE! http://seekingalpha.com/n/15fi
@WL..”You have me confused with the strawman you have running around your own imagination.”
Nice!
Sites Feed Personal Details To New Tracking Industry http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703977004575393173432219064.html?mod=WSJ_business_LeftTopHighlights
Then you have the Southerners they saw the social changes of the 60′s and 70′s as Eastern driven. The South was Democratic for a century but switched of cultural and racial issues. Socially conservative in the US are middle class, working class and many are even working poor. Yet many vote Neocon even as this ideology has decimated the middle class of this once great nation. This said the budget and trade inbalances didn’t matter, Manufacturing was the old economy, drive that 10 mile to the gallon SUV and we need to get Americans back shopping President Bush after 9-11.
The rise of this started in 60′s. America went through alot and people we outraged at the changes. Remember Reagan opposed the civil rights act in 1964 and also the voting rights act in 1965. The GOP since then has more of less become the party of the angry white man as it’s leading demographric. The Neocons have been masterfull at controlling and dominating socially conservative white voters by playing the race and religion card. Social Conservatives were outraged at the decline of moral value. Legal abortion in Roe VS Wade, the Warren school prayer rulings in the 60′s and the anti war hippies. The Neocons were masterfull in sucking them in.
We around the world must stop any War with Iran. It starts in the UK, US and also mainland Europe and also peace people in Israel. We can’t let them start WWIII. These people claim to do this in Israel’s name. Is Israel better off because a radical shia Islam regime will take control of Iraq when the US if forced to leave? Make no mistake Saddam was a bad guy but it wasn’t islamic zealot. The necons have made Hezbollah popular with even Christans in Lebanon. Is Israel better off because of this? You could see a radical sunni regime take control in Egypt soon the Muslim Brotherhood. Is israel better off because of this? NO! NO! NO!
IT is so impossible to keep it all straight.
I am convinced that all the different factions and ideologies along the political spectrum are just the brilliant way all of this has been planned out since founding of USA.
The game is one world government and they needed these factions and “sides” to operate the Hegelian dialectic over and over again to consolidate their power.
The problem is people who are sort of at the middle of the spectrum and would like to see America saved really have no where to go. The Tea Parties are a neocon joke. The Dems who still think Obama is great want a one world government too and they do not mind at all that will necessitate the third world war which is about to be launced beginning with hit on Iran.
What I find so ironic is the USA’s billionaire capitalists have always supported totalitarian socialist schemes. I do think people are beginning to see there is nothing benevolent for humankind about global socialism. It is a death and slavery system for all.
“Have the American people outlived their usefulness to the rich minority in the United States? A number of trends suggest that the answer may be yes.
In every industrial democracy since the end of World War II, there has been a social contract between the few and the many. In return for receiving a disproportionate amount of the gains from economic growth in a capitalist economy, the rich paid a disproportionate percentage of the taxes needed for public goods and a safety net for the majority.
In North America and Europe, the economic elite agreed to this bargain because they needed ordinary people as consumers and soldiers. Without mass consumption, the factories in which the rich invested would grind to a halt. Without universal conscription in the world wars, and selective conscription during the Cold War, the U.S. and its allies might have failed to defeat totalitarian empires that would have created a world order hostile to a market economy.”
Not one of these NeoCon bastards ever served America in war as far as I know. Those of us who went to Korea, then Viet Nam and other hell holes to lose life and limb never heard from these “Chicken Hawks” till they reached their brave middle age.
calling it what it is is not immature
Jim Rickards sayz….?
Has twitter made me a better person? Yes! I no longer use the word “banksters” thanks to @moorehn. She urged me to grow up, be mature
Whos the twat mooerhn?
@Charles
You have me confused with the strawman you have running around your own imagination.
Ladeen and others should speak for themselves; and obviously the turning of faith, the direct experience of God into a co-opted ‘religion’ like marshall music fed to soldier’s marching to hell is right up his and other neo-fascists alley.
You gotta give isreal equal credit for buying the buildings and setting the thermite charges. The pentagon only enabled them. And then, of course, we all are all guilty of and victims of the subsequent “war on terror”.
“Straussian?” I have been thinking that the whole left/right, Dems/Repubs thing was more akin to a “Hegelian Dialectic”
@Stacy and Max,
We need to talk about wind farms…
Paul Craig Roberts: We Are Almost Past The Point of No Return! – Alex Jones Tv 1/2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlQDDdR3G7A
Ray McGovern: Israel to Start War with Iran Maybe in August 2010 – Alex Jones Tv 1/2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvM2ck5iN-k
Ray McGovern: Israel to Start War with Iran Maybe in August 2010 – Alex Jones Tv 2/2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wZEcfFn3Q
Americans are now obsolete!
Have the American people outlived their usefulness to the rich minority in the United States? A number of trends suggest that the answer may be yes.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/07/27/american_people_obsolete/index.html
: Google, CIA Invest in ‘Future’ of Web Monitoring
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/07/exclusive-google-cia/#ixzz0v5v6peaa
Piraeus unable to pay its debts http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_0_30/07/2010_118721
The mayor of Piraeus, Panayiotis Fasoulas, informed municipal employees yesterday that City Hall would be stopping all payments following a central government decision to stop funding the debt-ridden authority.
Spanish Court Seeks Arrest of U.S. Soldiers in Hotel Attack
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007388,00.html?xid=rss-world&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+
How short-selling sleuths spot accounting gimmicks on financial reports http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-short-selling-sleuths-spot-accounting-tricks-2010-07-30
China opposes new EU sanctions on Iran
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66T29I20100730
“there was at least a more genuine liberal / conservative choice and debate”
Change is already here. We handle the mechanism as though it has been deigned being under our control. Grasping our reward- the dust-sifting through our measured fingers, patterned, dissolving, reticent, unsure, shapeless, meaningless- not a degree more or less human that we be, collapsing as we do when our withered frames meet balance- flowing past us, depositing silt and peat, as a river of grass moves without visible motive.
Our vanity is prolonged with the setting of the sun.
@ Gordo
its the new talking points…most of the people who rant on about those political system have no conception as to what they mean…it is the narrative they are feed and they obidiently opine it back as if it were their own natural concept…it is sad…a lot of current debate is sad and frustrating one spends half the time correcting out right falsehoods and the other explaining elementry concepts to your enterlocator….sad my country (America) has lost any critical thinking skills, it National Conversation is just a product of K Street and Madison Avenue
ahhh the siren song of “Progressives (Statist).” I know you will protest that you did not acquire this vocabulary from the Glenn Becks’ and Mark Levins’ of this world but the old truth bringers of old {probably quote your bona fides with Jeckly Island} but as a LEFTY and someone who truly dislikes Progressives (Because I believe they are fundamentally middle class apologist for the state and capitalism, basic apperatichicks) I grow tired of this sing song…ole things will be grand if we just return to the Constitution…well folks PROMOTE GENERAL WELFARE is such a big F!$#%ING door one could drive state run industry through it….and for the life of me I swear I don’t know what individual rights are being trampled by labeling our food and keeping children out of mines…which were the GREAT accomplishments of PROGRESSIVES…the Left railed against these feathers at their inception making the case that after reading the Jungle people were concerned about food packing standards and not the inhumanity that workers underwent…or the reason why Poor folks worked their children in the mine was because that was the only way the family was gonna eat, removing that extra bread winner without addressing the inequality was condemning the poor to subsistence…I am sorry WL your phil has a flaw…you make a normative claim about property and self but demand extracting some MINIMIAL GOVERNMENT (taking my property) to ensure your basic liberty…uhmmm oopsy that is a no no…if you want my gun on your wall then you better ensure that my loved ones have a minimal standard that they can never fall from…otherwise I will take the HOBBESEAN SOCIETY….Dog eat dog….I am a big enough dog
FDIC securitizes mortgages from failed banks http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fdic-securitizes-mortgages-from-failed-banks-2010-07-30
3 more banks fail – 2010 totals 106
Coastal Community Bank Panama City Beach FL 9619 July 30, 2010 July 30, 2010
Bayside Savings Bank Port Sainte Joe FL 57669 July 30, 2010 July 30, 2010
Northwest Bank & Trust Acworth GA 57658 July 30, 2010 July 30, 2010
http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html
Fascism, Communism, National socialism is left ???????
What planet do you inhabit???????
All those are right wing or caused by the right wing directly.
@WL. yep. bush was the salesman and obama is the closer. simple sales.
tired. this work thing. see y’all.
liked MM’s golg swap link. have a look.
saw the show this morning. yesterdays show that is. i liked it.
Stacy You are so right and lets not forget how many came out of the Nixon administration!
Speaking of Neocons:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38487460
“Gold Prices May Suffer as Scam Complaints Rise”
Fear-mongering by those who, like Fox News host Glenn Beck, have lucrative deals with gold vendors has been causing angst about conflicts of interest for months. But reports of customers getting put into investments that lose a third of their value upon purchase are causing a new sense of alarm.
The Neocon’s where enabled by more developed models of human psychology as well. You play from a songbook, you sing the song of the bird you want to woo or passify, and if you succeed you get on with business. The neocon mind has the same depth as Vegas..
@Mirror Mirror
Just type DYING OF MONEY PDF in your favorite search engine…
Bang… POW… SHAZAM!!!!
I got a copy… only 902kB
Anyone ever herd the term,,.”slavespeak”,…herd it the other day,..just made me think ( a little),……: )
Just finished reading “Totalitarian Rule Its Nature and Characteristics” by Hans Buchheim.
Compares Nationalist Socialist Party 30′s Germany to Marxist/Leninist Russia. Interesting in light of the Google/CIA collaboration.
Agree,
But it is fascism ala national socialism on the far right and fascism ala global socialism on the far left. Both trash the constitution and have eroded individual rights. I blame Progressives (Statist). If you look back in US history they are both right and left. Progressives are Big Government pushers in both parties.
As bad as Bush was, this Obama cabal is worse..
Tools for elites….
@MirrorMirror
Good link.. re BIS gold Swap
The Euro Gold version of reverse REPO 105
@Mr Grinch ….
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34875390/J-Parsson-Dying-of-Money
… This content was removed at the request of P. McLaughlin
?
BIS Gold Swaps Update – the ‘Mystery’ is lifted
http://www.acting-man.com/?p=4335
Read Sought-After “The Dying Of Money” on Hyper Inflation Here
Monday, July 26, 2010
Excitement has been growing about a long out-of-print book Dying of Money: Lessons of the Great German and American Inflations by Jens Parsson and currently costing $234 at Amazon.
The author vividly and thoroughly recounts the influence of inflation throughout history with special emphasis on the U.S. economy and the hyperinflationary events of the 1920s in the Weimar Republic, Germany.
Readers of this blog can read the book here!
http://prudentinvestor.blogspot.com/2010/07/read-sought-after-dying-of-money-on.html
Quote
A free copy of “Dying of Money” may be downloaded at scribd.com. (You may have to sign up—there is no charge—if you’ve never visited the site before.)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34875390/J-Parsson-Dying-of-Money
and htm…
http://www.delanion.com/Dying%20of%20Money.htm
================
http://www.wolf1168.us/misc/Articles%20of%20Interest/When%20Money%20Dies.pdf
Link to book
When Money Dies : A Nightmare of the Weimar Collapse by Adam Fergusson
@Faber
Better link here:
http://watch.bnn.ca/market-morning/july-2010/market-morning-july-23-2010/#clip328186
Secretary Geithner’s Got Some Explaining to Do…
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/secretary_geithners_got_some.html
Actually, we knew when “The AIG Credit Facility Trust” was set up at the time, that it’s legality was dubious to say the least.
What I am curious about is why is this being (re)dicussed “now” … years after the fact ?
Still, better late than never of course.
off topic..
strange 2 days ago i saw the Parsson book (dying of moeny) republished by Tradibooks….but now it is gone
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Xy8bijDlABUJ:cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dying-Money-Jens-O-Parsson-NEW-EDITION-/170519670142%3Fcmd%3DViewItem%26pt%3DUS_Nonfiction_Book%26hash%3Ditem27b3c3ad7e+tradibooks+Dying+of+Money+by+Jens+O.+Parsson&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Fid&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lulu.com%2FTradibooks+dying&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
and i can’t find the google cache of the page….
Bronxy: It is all National Socialism… command-contolled economies and they span the left/right wing paradigm. In the USA also exists the doctrines of Manifest Destiny, the UK had the Bloomsbury Group, and the Fabians. Right wing, left wing… its all the same. Marx wrote a manifesto as did Marinetti for the Futurists.
I have been reading about Modern Chinese politics of late. What struck me were the similarities between the Neo-cons and the Manchus or Mandarin class. They were elite, conservative, insecure as a class hence very prohibitive of individual freedoms and very corrupt. The social upheaval which followed their overthrow must have been horrific with warlords, suffering and famine leading to communism with Mao.
Very sobering.
Dr. Faber On BNN:
http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip328186
Stacy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/7919778/7billion-a-year-skimmed-off-our-savings.html
They just a RAPE gang, nothing more…..in the end people will just walk away.
Mike
@ Stacey,
Couldn’t agree with you more.
Neoconservatism is of course right wing. Fascism, Communism, National socialism is left wing. Why call conservatism fascism, it don’t make sens.
Thanks Stacy. That story of burka wearing Jewish women made my day. I have to say one thing though, they work! They utterly repel me. Yuck!
Strange story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7919501/Israeli-rabbis-clamp-down-on-burka.html
last one…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33tH-JdPDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7movKfyTBII
wait glen beck endorsed it? he can read????