Scott Horton debunks the propaganda being spewed from the neo-conservatives who operate the most expensive welfare operation ever devised by man, financed through the highest carbon taxes anywhere in the world. Two trillion dollars per year alone in the US is collected in tax revenue, half of it goes directly to the military to secure oil reserves around the world, including next those of Iran:
And as if redistributing wealth from the taxpayer to their private carbon profits weren’t enough, BP, Halliburton and Transocean have been caught setting up yet another of their sleazy fake think tank / front groups, this time duping celebrities and housewives into agitating on their behalf to get the government to fork over more taxpayer money to clean up their oil spill.
And speaking of think tanks and front groups set up to scam the taxpayer, the Cato Institute’s Pat Michaels admits (at @7 minute mark) that 40% of the funding for his climate change denying comes from the very same hardcore welfare queens of the petroleum industry; the same petroleum industry, like Exxon, that imposes massive carbon taxes on all citizens unable to opt out of these taxes:
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Journalists are the real criminals in the story about Iran.
As journalista were the real criminals about 911 and the war in Irak. The officila western media is pure shit.That’s about it.
Journalists are the Maginot Line for freedom in America.
The Apocalypse ? Give me a break ! Bull ! .
It’s always the same old shit regarding present day journalism,..
The art of mis-direction and mis-information is rampant!
Geo political comprehension is far more complex than is iterated by any journalist I’ve ever listened to, or read,..which in and of itself is quite revealing.
The manner in which Stacy has presented this piece is up there with the best !,….well done Stacy, you’re not in any danger of changing the format : )
As we’re all aware,..(maybe) news is just a method of shocking the bone in order to get a reaction,….
@Stacy
While I don’t disagree with your sentiment, there are things left out.
90% of global oil production is STATE owned.
How much money is behind the promotion of AGW… from Government, Corporations and Non Profits..
You point out the expense to the taxpayer, but leave out the revenue. How much does the State get from this? Answer, Much more than the Corporations.
This is national fascism, but promoting AGW is global fascism, both are wrong.
I think the press is LESS bias than it once was…if one watches reporting before the 60′s or 70′s it was open promotion/propaghanda for Corporate and State policies…there wasn’t a true alternative coverage, the I F Stones of the world were RARE and normal quckly smeared in the regular press….pre world war 2 bthere was some independent worker press that tried to arise after their numbers had been obliterated during the first war to end all wars…but the new commercial based formula (ad based as oppose to subscription based) destroyed the few outliner voices a couple independents held on via vanity publishing The Nation and Harpers spring to mind but even that has been co opted/destroyed….amusingly the vanity publishing that gave us Marx is now there to bring us Fox Finacial Network and Glenn Beck
Though CO2 is a blessing not a problem, I absolutely loath government oil subsidies and for that matter government subsidies period.
I smell a set up! That round table debate about Global Warming was disturbing. The man from Cato seemed oddly insincere, almost completely fake. Go to 7:00 and listen and look at his response and then listen to the silent snickering in the background after he says, “not largely.” Very very bad acting in my opinion. Then listen to his bogus answer to what portion of his research is funded by the oil industry, his face and bad acting skills are shockingly noticeable. This was a complete fraud!
The only sincere guy at that table was the guy not wearing a suit. At least he believes in what he says and does even though it’s probably based on bulls@#t from the IPCC.
@ Stacey,
Why are you bitching about Carbon Taxes?
You believe that CO2 is the problem, therefore, you should be supporting this crap.
At least be consistent.
New information suggests JFK commited suicide after all.
and most likely, so did all other presidents suffering a premature death.
yes we caned, your brain
yes we CAN, your brain
yes we’ll can, your brain
M&S,
Three AGW alarmist is not a debate, its a circle-j@#%.
Get Christopher Monction on the show, he will set you straight.
we must be on a suicide mission
It could be a good time to invest in companies in suicide-accessories like jacket, underpants…………
“90% of global oil production is STATE owned”
so you truly believe that if it was PRIVATELY owned it the current situation wouldn’t be the same?
while I on the other hand believe nothing would change…the same people who OWN Saudi, Mexico, China, Brazil, Russian oil would still OWN it, reap the benifits just they don’t have to pretend that it isn’t the case like they currently do
@William of the North
Who told you that you have to be pro carbon tax if you belive CO2 is a problem?
I belive CO2 is a huge problem, but carbon tax is about the worst way to go about it!
The press is just more “sophist” icated, than before, not less biased !
If anyone believes the press is there to edify the people,..then they are fools
Good Clear vids!
It is suggested however that “wise man” wouldn’t want to start a war with Iran but there are not many “wise man” in the States and certainly not on key positions. You only have to look at the last decades of the U.S. to understand this is true.
Since these “wise man” imposters donnow what to do they will start a war as distraction of the economical implosion which they can’t solve with their peanut brains and whitout over seeing the destructional nature and consequences of their evil deeds.
The U.S. way of thinking is self destruction quaranteed. Just kick back and watch it happen since talkin to you fellow man doesn’t help cause they’re simply to stupid and will laugh at you. they wouldn’t believe a nuke mushroom if they see one.
hat’s off to “sophist” icated thinkers, writers, readers and beings
Have this cat back on after Iran sets off its first nuclear bomb!
Fareed Zakaria is a director on the Council of Foreign Relations…
http://www.cfr.org/bios/150/fareed_zakaria.html
Fareed Zakaria
Editor, Newsweek International
Dr. Zakaria is the editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek’s editions abroad. He also writes a regular column for Newsweek, which also appears in Newsweek International and the Washington Post. Additionally, he hosts CNN’s show “Fareed Zakaria GPS,” which airs on Sundays worldwide. In 1992 he was appointed managing editor of Foreign Affairs, a position he held for eight years. He is the author of From Wealth To Power: The Unusual Origins of America’s World Role, The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad, and The Post-American World. Dr. Zakaria has won several awards for his columns and other writing. He currently serves on the boards of Yale University, the Trilateral Commission , and Shakespeare and Company. He is based in New York, NY.
Also Trilateral Commission..
http://mapper.nndb.com/start/?id=44183
Why is UK inflation still so high? Why have exports not responded to the medium-term fall in sterling? Why have credit conditions failed to improve?
Very interesting piece from the Telegraph.UK: Inflation comes through the door and wisdom flies out of the window: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/7958148/Inflation-comes-through-the-door-and-wisdom-flies-out-of-the-window.html
DEPRECIATION OF THE POUND
- The medium-term fall in the pound creates inflation
UK IS AN IMPORTING NATION
- 35% of every pound spent in the UK goes on imported goods
- UK is now a net oil importer and during 2010, crude prices have remained stubbornly in the range of $70-$80 per barrel
GLOBAL COMMODITY DEMAND KEPT PRICES UP
- Commodity demand has fallen by much less than most expected
- Global commodity use hasn’t fallen at all – and is this year set to reach yet another record high
VERY BAD CREDIT CONDITIONS – NO SMALL BUSINESS LENDING
- Business lending fell £3.5bn in June the ninth successive monthly contraction
- Credit conditions have not improved as much as previously expected and smaller firms in particular are being starved of working capital and lack access to alternative funding sources
- The on-going reluctance of the British banking sector to lend and the evaporation of bank lending curtails firms’ inherent ability to produce
This is disastrous. Small firms are a major source of UK employment, innovation and growth. The economy simply cannot recover without them.
UNDECLARED LOSSES
- Massive undeclared sub-prime losses but also the incestuous relationship between our political and financial elite.
THE FUTURE: SOUVEREIGN DEBT DEFAULTS TROUGH HIGHER RATES
- As price pressures persist, rates could go up much sooner than the markets expect
There’s no mystery about our inflationary problems – but to solve them we need to face up to some harsh realities.
@mae’s fanny,…. “”Sophists did, however, have one important thing in common: whatever else they did or did not claim to know, they characteristically had a great understanding of what words would entertain or impress or persuade an audience” (by deceit !)
I added the last part,… You’re obviously more foolish than you make out!
@WL – if Charles Manson or Sarah Palin asked the question, the answer would still be the same, the climate change denying scientist would still have received 40% of his funding from the carbon taxing oil industry that makes me pay for their wars and I can’t even opt out of it by say walking or using energy more efficiently, there is no way to escape their tax; so Squeaky, just admit you are programmed to spout dialogue written for you by a bunch of tax and spend welfare bums who force you to speak that way in order to create an environment favorable to their welfaring ways
The media sells advertising slots so they have to cry wolf a lot and get people to watch their nonsense. Bu-u-u-t-t-t-t-t-t, every once in a while the story is true and the results catastrophic; merely ask the people of kuwait, or the pols, or russians, or south vietnamese, or given a long-enough time horizon, just about any country. The solution is to find an honest, truthful press then let the people assess any particular threat. The people when given the facts have good judgement as a group.
@dedo
Words are often misunderstood.
But you are probably right my friend. I claim no knowledge, I admit being a foolish student. But I never intend to deceit, never!
My Green Energy Story…
There are scams small and large going on all over this issue and at all scales.
Being semi-retired, I decided in late ’08 to take a part time job so I wouldn’t ‘rust’ sitting around the house. Here in Houston, I got a sales position with Green Mountain Energy. They sell wind energy exclusively. Their logo is a big industrial strength wind turbine, and all of their sales people are given a ‘blue-sky’ blue shirt with the turbine logo to wear as a uniform, and to make us stick out, so we could be seen.
I found out after a month working for them, yes, they were nice people, but they had no windmills. (I think now, they might be part owners in a wind farm somewhere)
Sales was a mixed experience, I liked the idea of what I was doing, but had a few hostile run-ins with Oil company people, all the more ironic because I have 25 years with oil companies (Gulf Oil, Conoco-Phillips). The conversations were odd because of the expectations these people had about me. Guess they would never think a former Oil company guy would sell wind…
But in the grocery stores where we set up our booths, we encountered everybody, all types.
The most pivotal part of the story, was that in this part of the country, Hispanics are a major part of the population, The highest performing sales people in this company were also Hispanic, and they had the highest sales closure rate.
They became the ‘gold standard’ the rest of us were held to, and I traveled to a different store location one afternoon, to find out what these sales people had that we didn’t (besides language, I’m a Yankee, no Spanish knowledge).
It turned out, the Hispanic sales people misrepresented the cost savings of our wind energy service to their fellow Hispanics who, with poor English skills, often couldn’t read their own electric bills. We weren’t really cheaper than our competitors, with coal fired electricity.
So the highest sales happening were due to a kind a fraud.
I found the experience unsettling, and not long thereafter left the company.
I still like wind and solar, and even Green Mountain Energy, not all of the experiences were bad. And I have a bunch of these nice ‘sky blue’ shirts, for the experience…
Let’s say Scott Horton is 50% correct.
Who is trying to gin up a war with Iran and why are they getting so much attention across the web and in the MSM?
Further, after this murderous debacle in Iraq and the mess in Afghanistan/Pakistan how could the US even think of going into another war?
Outside a few nut jobs, the mention of war with Iran gets a resounding NO from the American people and the world.
I’m so sick and tired of this bs, it makes me want to turn away from it all.
Perhaps that is the mission?
Certainly it is well demonstrated in the lack luster support for the people affected by floods in Pakistan.
We are over saturated with nothing, but bad news or pending bad news. Our disposition in this economy doesn’t help, and the absence of any justice for Bush, banks and BP is enough to make anyone through their hands up in the air and give up.
The trend this week is for the GOP and selected nut jobs to beat up and blame the poor for this economy. We are eating our own.
The last time the US lived through such a downtrodden scenario Ronald Reagan was elected president.
One has to wonder if the GOP is working on raising him from the dead.
Some say global warming is for real, some say it’s not! IF the possibility exists that it COULD be for real shouldn’t we take steps now to protect our environment? Wouldn’t that provide new energy sources, new employment? But of course, Barrack would have to run it by his boss Lloyd at Goldman Sachs first to get his approval!
Looking at my last post, I should clarify, they had no windmills because they were an energy wholesaler, they bought wind energy wholesale from windfarms, and resold it retail. So, they were honestly selling wind energy, they just didn’t own the windmills..
@stacyherbert
Jim Rogers still pays American taxes do you? Are you still a US citizen? Washington’s polices have also bankrupted the states.
@stacyherbert
You left the US, you don’t have to pay US taxes. Do you still? Why? Don’t want to give up your US citizenship?
Do your research..
90% of oil production is State owned.
You point to the fascism on the right and fail to the fascism on the left.
Cherry picking facts to fit your ideology is intellectual bankruptcy.
@Mark Lytle
I think Wind Energy only can play a local role but on a Nation or World scale it’s insignificant.
I think we have to build a World Solar Energy grid using the empty but plentyfull sun hours deserts around the globe. This also would equalies capital since the Nations with a lot of sun are often the more poorer nations.
But this will all stay a distant dream if we can’t get rid of the rubber Barons who control our resources and governments.
@Dedo
The press is dying. Must concur with you on that. Tne main bias is not talking about what is really going on. If doen’t exist if you stop talking about it. Example: the oil that is continuing to seep. Fundementally the official media is a fascist organ.
It’s quite depressing to have to watch Russia Today to know what is really going on in the western world. I am not saying that Russia Today has no biais. But there was a time that the Soviet media was just aa anti US propaganda machine. It’s not today. Today the soviet propaganda machine is the USA and the UK media.
Yellow? Hello? Heh; I thought I’dbetheonetopointthis out; Jesse has linked an utter moron to his site, which, albeit one-sided and structured for monologue-the site, not the moron- is usually quite good. Mr. Pollock has an equation with an equal sign which is mathematically impossible. The point to the limit of 1 over x is that the limit is not attained: therefore NOT EQUAL. While seeing that did jar my sensibilities to a wakeful state, it also felt rather like going over a speedbump without noticing to slow down.
I feel I’m doing my little wee-bit in the comment-commentario by pointing to this malfeasance of a truly mathematical significance.
you’re welcome (in advance) and enjoy the rest of his completely fallacious talk
I still think the reason for going Green should be Peak Oil. I feel that’s easier to prove then Climate change, the math is a little sounder…still statistics, but with a stronger footing…
The climate change debate will always get vitriolic because of it’s mathematical limitations. I also think we are probably changing the climate,(partly because we’re busting everything else, too) but it’s more inductive, I know I can’t prove it, nor anyone else, conclusively.
So in my Green Mountain job, I stressed resource limitations (peak oil) and CLEAN (no toxins). That worked better…less controversial…
“teach, your children well, their father’s hell, does slowly go by…”
http://www.verysillymayor.com/
Is there a Climate Change?
Yes, and there will always be, with or without men!
Is mankind contributing to that?
Yes, but the percentage contributing to that is tiny!
How could we help to reverse this contribution, even if it is tiny?
Well, every individual should use public transport in his/her respective country, use bicycle whenever is possible!, quit smoking, recycling, etc. And what about planting 1 billion trees all over the planet? This is an idea of a French Botanist and it makes sense. But governments are following a global agenda and some organisations and people you thought you could trust, ehem!! are being infiltrated also! So forget about the billion of trees as a start but if you could plant one or two you are most welcome!
Is there any real alternative to fossil fuels?
Nope and Yes.
Theoretically speaking we have permanent clusters, charged magnets, hydrino power, cero point energy, cold fusion, to name some.
Practically speaking we only have at a massive scale the Nuclear Energy, despite it is potentially very dangerous but take a look to France which most of its electricity comes from nuclear energy and we have hardly ever heard of an accident in France due to nuclear energy, am I right in this? correct me if I´m wrong!
Solar Energy is good but not at a massive scale! In your private house, car, in your building, in small communities.
Should we pay a carbon tax to fix the problem?
Not at all! NO WAY! Just maybe the companies that pollute but not the people that exhale CO2 every second from their lungs!
Regarding man-made climate, Is it worthy to follow this?:
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/08/06/pakistan-flood-photos-haarp-fingerprints-found-allover/
Yes, definitely! It is worth looking and deeper digging and bring another variable to the equation!
But who is the main contributor to Climate Change?
The SUN who could scorch us or send us to freeze whenever it wants or just simply wipe us out and end of conversation ha ha!
@Marc re Russia today
I totally agree with your sentiments… sad you have to go to RT to find out about U.S.A.
@ Dedo
the Sophist are hated because of who wrote the their histories…namely a spoiled upper class land owner POS who dispised the lower merchant classes who the sophist catered to
they were more than mere rhetoicians, and even if they weren’t as Nietz would confess that is all any of us can be…Socrates was the best sophist/cynic and to say he wasn’t is not to understand the history of the place that gave birth to the title
@stacy
Z: “Is your research funded by these industries?”
M “Not largely.”
Z: “Can I ask you what percentage of your work is funded by the petroleum industry?”
M: “I don’t know, 40%, I don’t know.”
Excuse me? 40% is not largely?
2% or 3 % is not largely, 40% IS largely.
and even then I’d guess he’s low balling that amount. Theses numbers need thorough research.
In this economy, on such a controversial subject, anyone in business today better come armed with hell of a lot more than “I don’t know” to be believed. Nothing short of unprofessional.
What can I say, when you click on one of his cartoons, you end up clicking the whole archive.Hungry for more. If that doesn’t appeal to you, don’t go laugh and then think:
http://www.credoaction.com/comics/2010/08/taking-afghanistan-seriously/
America’s best cartoonist, imho.
If global warming is caused by man, we’re doomed. If it’s another cause, we have no clue what we’re talking about. So what’s all the fuss about?
While I agree with Max and Stacy on about 95% of things, I could not disagree more on man-made climate change.
Are we poisoning our environment? – damn straight we are. I just do not think that CO2 is a toxin.
But let’s suppose that they are right and I am wrong, we have nothing to replace oil..NOTHING.
People say that we could replace every vehicle with electric – OK. Where does the electricity come from? There is not enough sources of alternate energy on the planet to meet the demand. Also how many gallons of oil are used to manufacture the car?
Tires, paints, plastics, fabrics, etc all are made from petroleum products. The house we live in, the food we eat, the medicines we consume, the roads we drive on, our communication (electronics) all are dependent on oil.
There is only one reason that the planet has over 6 billion people, oil. Without it our infrastructure would crumble.
So until a compact portable cold water nuclear fission power plant is invented we will continue to be dependent on oil. Biofuel such as ethanol is bullshit. It takes more energy to produce 1 gallon of ethanol than goes into it. Without subsidies and tax break it is not economical. If everyone was using it then there would be a food shortage.
The mutherfuckers we entrusted with providing us with real research were caught cooking the books. The Micheal Mann’s of the world can not be trusted. Climategate was real, no matter what mainstream media tells you.
And that is another thing that should raise alarm bells. Everything else that the mainstream media spews off about is bullshit, so why would they be telling the truth here?
Maybe some of you agree to Ted Turner’s “useless eater” rant, and that about 5 – 5.5 billion of us must be exterminated. I don’t know about you but I love life and will not volunteer to off my self or that of my family and friends.
@yoyo
On a practical level, there’s wisdom in that point of view…
I think going green has more benefits than the climate change thing (assuming we’re not causing all of it, in which case as you say, we’re probably doomed).
We should be arguing less Mercury, Arsenic, etc. as those arguments are straightforward.
We should argue are strongest points, not our weakest..
@chArles,…You can debate the subject all you want,…
But, I hope you understand the point I was making regarding said press!
I’ve no bias concerning the intentions of sophism as a philosophical tool,..it has it’s uses either way, for good or bad,..
@mae’s fanny,… I was trying to goad you into some emotional rhetoric,..you’re to wise it seems,…: )
Everything Scot Horton says also applies to the current climate change debate, Where the media,including Keiser is bastardising the science to fit into a Good Vs Evil debate. The precautionary principle willout and everyone not with us is against us. Hes right to blame the media and i look forward to the day the spotlight is turned on the “Alternative” media also.
Propaganda is on the right and left…
Soros propaganda machine..
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/libertychick/2010/07/26/soroswood-the-intersection-of-politics-and-hollywood-propaganda-part-1/
Soros has devoted a great deal of time and energy to dissecting the reasons why Americans should hate America. He has convinced droves of liberals into believing that we are living in an Orwellian state, warning us that everything from the US government (preceding Obama, of course) is nothing more than propaganda, and that right-leaning news sources are not news, but Orwellian Newspeak. In numerous conferences and symposiums, including this one in 2007 at the NY Public Library, speaking about the role of media in the U.S. today, Soros deems Americans to have been ignorantly shielded by the protection of Newspeak and Nazi-like propaganda filtered to the peripheral conscious mind of Americans through television and Hollywood movie screens.
@Stacy and @Max
Here a website I check every other day or so to get updates on Renewable energy, I think you’ll both find it interesting:
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/home
This site is becoming a clearinghouse for new info on Solar, Wind, Geothermal, tidal, wave, Biomass, etc…
Much of the controversy is also addressed there as well, in editorials…
More background on the German Gold discussion this morning :
German Financial Watchdog Says Gold Is Not Money
http://seekingalpha.com/article/221656-german-financial-watchdog-says-gold-is-not-money?source=yahoo
By the way, speaking of Mercury and Arsenic, have you all seen this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fda-not-testing-gulf-seafood-mercury-arsenic-or-other-heavy-metals-because-we-do-not-expect-
U.S. Government is NOT TESTING (assumes it’s safe) Gulf Seafood!
Have you had your healthy portion of seafood to-day?
Ahh good i hoped clearing my throat wouldn’t go unnoticed!
Koch Koch Koch ohuhhm sorry had a pink panther in my throat.
Anyway not much to do then just sit back and let them find the last Air bender so they can fix mama.
ahum)
(yeah she is the sick one guys
I just hope they realise that having fun with the nation of fire is also part of the planning…
ohh lord we are doomed!
As always i’ll have to smile a grin and cry a tear……
@dedo
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@mae’s fanny,… I was trying to goad you into some emotional rhetoric,..you’re to wise it seems,…: )
==============================
You are too kind Sir Dedo, but I thought I did engage in emotional rhetoric. remember “Never decit, never!” !?
What I really like to do is to save mother earth from all the C02 and stuff.
BTW will the new world currency be called C02, based on CO2. come to think of it, it is based on co2 already.
respect mate
Anthrax Letters @ Max Whats wrong wit yas I hope Ya see ta inbitween Linens tey stupid tey have an IQ of 50
If u tink or tey
I can freakin tink Infity
France almost shut down due to carbon tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU3IOpv9LXE
Greenland deep ocean oil-drilling could make “west” independent , for a while.
Let’s play the logic game…
1) RT is state financed…
2) The State receives funding from taxes
3) The Mineral Resource Tax is the 2nd largest source of income for the state, with most of the revenue in this category coming from OIL COMPANIES.
3) mAx is funded by RT (40%?)
ergo
mAx is funded by OIL COMPANIES
he must be evil
As you can see, such ridiculous arguments detract from what counts.
In the case of Dr. Michaels or mAx, it is the CONTENT PRODUCED that matters…
Now if you actually want to criticize Dr. Michaels’ WORK, then let’s get at it…
Hell, let’s examine Dr. “equation juggler” Schmidt’s work, while we’re at it…
Leave the hype to drivel-junkies like CNN and FOX
@Baggo,….You’re coming on in leaps and bounds,….LOL : )
Quote from Giuseppe Bagodonutti “Let’s play the logic game…”
I myself am more of the magickal thinking but even i come to the same conclusion: Bears do like Honey!
Ohh shucks man! just jammin’
That is a lot of money being spent on protecting oil. This stuff must be of great value in someone’s mind. Maybe it’s time to change our collective values?
Pat Michael forgot to include all the cost externalization that takes place in these energy decisions. So, to say we need a mechanism to bring these emissions down, the mechanism may be mass die off and global catastrophy if we simply rely on the corporate and government balance sheets.
Carbon taxes are great – except they won’t work to actually improve anything. Might make a few rich people richer and a lot of poor people poorer. Great plan. (Ya, and maybe the price for my beach front property investment in Tuvalu will rise with the sea level too.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNql8BiAijw
Oh man .. I do NOT like this guy …
Tony Blair sets up Mayfair ‘bank’ to act as a deal maker in investments for the super-rich
. Former PM’s company can act as an investment bank
. Blair’s memoirs hail his ‘visionary friend’ George Bush
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305142/Tony-Blair-sets-Mayfair-bank-act-dealmaker-investments-super-rich.html
PS:
… ‘Love letter to George Bush’: Mr Blair’s book “A Journey” is published on 1 September…
Peak Oil and peak natural ressources is a MUCH bigger problem than pollution or the CO2 bullshit. In reality we will have first to change our economic,and CULTURAK model based on the materialistic piggish Americain Dream. The Anerican Dream was based on plundering and rape since the beginning. The system is not sustainable because based UNIQUELY on energy consumption in higher and higher increments. That’s what happen when you destroy all the OTHER values that could save us. What values ? Humanism, sharing, and YES spirituality, More monasteries and less autoriutes, Less action and more contemplation. Comtemplation is not a negative value specially when you see the Pentagon assholes in action.
Changing the culture is the solution. The debate is always on new technology or taxing and fiscality. Both are false solutions and are dangerous because none address the fundemental changes needed, Education, culture and values. You never hear the greenies talking about this stuff today.
some truth, whatever that means, in here:
aj Dead Man Walking
By Amir Sulaiman
I am a dead man walking
A mute man talking
A blind man watching
Our brothers die
And I’ve built our coffins
Much too often
It gets so dark when
Our mothers cry
I know more than I want too,
But not nearly enough
I thought I was writing for the love
But it just turns to be lust
And my trust in us was gullibility
The reality is just that
I’m not who I was,
Nor who I will be.
But sometimes I feel me visiting
And I fill me with the lush scent of soul,
The flavor of feeling
The rush of color
I think the pleasure will kill me
The pressure squeezes and spills me
To the language of the unseen,
The unthought, and the undreamed.
And my heart begins to pump
The thick/ rich/ fluid of verse
Searching for a simple word or phrase
To fill the phase between
The white nurse and the black hearse.
And I know sometimes my words
Lack worth
Lack depth
Lack gerth
Lack the distance to travel from
Heaven to Earth
Or from mind to brain
Or from soul to flesh
I hold my breath and my hollow hope
That my hope aint hollow
It’s just a message in a bottle
Or a genie in a bottle
Or a wino and his bottle
Or a baby and the bottle
The symphony of me is stuck in staccato
Like a broken/ break beat/
Breaking the vinyl into
Bits of blackness spinning in circles
Come down Selecta
Last night the DJ took my life
But left the speakers empty
And the speakers speechless
And the dancers still
Dancing or not,
They don’t see our music as musing
Merely amusing amusement
How could they know in
Basement booths
We’ve balanced the nexus between
The soul and the flesh
And the science and intellect
We rock genius like a necklace
We drop jewels in gutters.
But they fooled our mothers
Into thinking that they could raise sons
In the darkness of night.
But isn’t the night always dark before the sun is raised?
And when the sun is raised
Doesn’t he make the block hot
And the eye squint
And the breath sweat
And the tree grow
And the children play
The rays sun makes the pavement see
The wavy apparitions
The mirage of the future
But I know
I am a dead man walking
A mute man talking
A blind man watching
Our brothers die
And I’ve built our coffins
Much too often
It gets so dark when
Our mothers cry
So now I’m walking the thin line
Between love and hate
Between words that are spoken
And beats that break
There’s a thin line between
A bullet in the chamber
And the bullet in the brain
I’m civilized, sane, with a little savage in me
There’s not really a little savage in me
Just a lot of passion in me
And sometimes the soul rolls
Outta control without a glass of rem’y
And some people are fine with being slaves
Just as long as master is friendly
And let us spit fire into match
Until the mag’ is empty
You don’t need to pass the cem’y
To know there’s a little assassin in me
Just know
There is no soul taken accident’ly
The angel of death has an itinerary
Snatch you right outta your Bently
Right outta your Gucci jeans
Right outta your Fendi
Right outta your dashik’
And right outta your Kente
Allah has written in his book
And there is no erasing the pen’s ink
So why do we ignore what God knows
And rely on what men think
We’re just boys in the backstreet
Just tryin’ to get in sync
But my balance is off
My talent is lost
I’ve married my art, but
She’s barren of course
And I hear in her voice that
We’re headin’ divorse
So before court
I may have to kill my dreams and
Bury the corpse
I shed a tear for the loss
I feel like I’m bearing the cross
My conception was so far from immaculate
For the most part,
We’re just a bunch of kids
Our fathers are gone
Caught in the cycle of sadomasochism
Because our lives are dead wrong
But resurrected like Lazarus
Cause our mothers are strong
And our romances are just about
as romantic as the master’s kiss
But we have got to move on
And our lives are about as painful
As the master’s whip
We have got to move on
I wish I could sing for justice
But I know no such song
I know about Shohada
Souha and Koran,
Jihad, martyrdom, and homemade bombs
I know you think I’m wrong
For talking about homemade bombs
But the leader of the free world
Can drop A-bombs and napalm
And got the nerve to ask
“Why do they hate us?”
When they still got the blood on their palms
They stay long
And sing songs about freedom and justice
All bloody day long
And claiming they’re right
But they’ve got to be dead wrong
And maybe I’m just too drawn
And head strong
And now
I’m ready to run head long
Into enemy fire
It’s like we desire death.
I just got the same blood that
Pumps through a lion’s chest.
I come from a line of warriors
Who took off the leather vest
And sheathed the sword
And sprint into the thick of the mess
I am begging them now
Show me your best!
There are two possible outcomes:
One, I could send them to rest
Or two, they could send me to my lord
I like the second one the best
I will kill the killers who live
I’ve settled for less
Because I’m already a
I am a dead man walking
A mute man talking
A blind man watching
Our brothers die
But I won’t build our coffins
And I will not take part in
The death of my heart’s kin
I would rather die.
@Giuseppe – nice try, but I do not purport to be a scientist nor do I produce allegedly scientific studies and research designed to confuse a non-scientific audience as Dr. Michaels does; there is a very wide body of evidence that proves directly industry funded research tends to support the view of that industry directly funding that ‘research’ or ‘think tank’; here is a paper on 40 studies proving the link with pharmaceutical companies: http://jme.bmj.com/content/34/8/627.abstract; here is a paper on how food industry funded studies also creates a bias: http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0040005; here is recent ‘research’ funded by Unilever and the National Dairy Council which lo and behold the scientists discover that saturated fats cause no health problems: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27725v1
There is a huge difference between a man posing as an expert scientist that receives direct industry funding (as opposed to indirect via, for example, a university) and who only ever produces research that ALWAYS proves the industry causes no harm and one journalist with an observation and an opinion
And if you can’t see the difference between the two then you are just, as I keep pointing out, programmed to shout upon hearing trigger words; these guys are experts at it, so I don’t blame you and hopefully pointing it out to you will help you out a bit.
One of the AGW nut job on the panel actually says that the CO2 level on earth should be reduced by 80%. Who let the insane out of the asylum?
To Stacy Herbert:
Who finances the AGW crowd? From what I hear, a good portion of the financing comes from Wall St carbon tax mafia.
To show partiality is not good, because for a piece of bread a man will transgress. Proverbs 28:21
@marbou – if you would step away from your programming, you would realize that the ‘AGW nutjob’ you refer to is actually someone you are meant to worship for he is one of the chosen scientists financed by Exxon, a corporation that has an almost god-like ability to seek out and finance the handful of True and Honest Scientists that can prove that all those tens of thousands of climate scientists at all those thousands of elitist universities and government agencies are lying; thank the Lord for Exxon for finding these people . . . so, Marbou, would you like to rephrase your rant? Repeat after me, Dr. Michaels is one of the Truth-Sayers; ‘global warming is a hoax’ ‘world socialism’ ‘carbon tax’ . . . .
@Marbou
I smell Malthus. It stinkarooooo mucho. 80% rwduction of CO2 means exterminating 80% of world population. No such technology exists apart from a concentration camp. a mean virrus or a couple of thousand nukes. Who is first Stacy to volunteer ,,,,,,,,,:)
@Marc Authier – oh boy, you Exx-bots are just on one big loop, aren’t you? @marbou accidentally insulted a Denier Approved Scientist; get your stories straight, man!
@Giuseppe – I’d also be curious to know if you have any problem with video news releases: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Video_news_releases
Do you think they are valid presentations of news stories?
@stacyherbert
I’m starting to think that in the US we will a devaluation of the currency much more than Inflation. How big do you see the devaluation being I say 50%. With the US current account deficit a devaluation is a sure thing. The effect on savers will be really lousy to say the least.
@Stacy,..You wouldn’t be pushing your/the opinion so hard unless there was a motive!
And try something other than saving the planet,. (little bit omnipotent IMO)
Unless you and Lord Blankfein are of the same camp. : )
@Illinois – the US, like all other nations with floating currencies, can only devalue against something like gold or some sort of global currency
I personally believe the dominant political and economic leaders in America desperately want to inflate their way out of our current problems and have been doing everything possible but unfortanetely the deflationary pressures are to great and it ain’t taking
@Stacy,
maybe I just don’t get it, when the sun comes out it seems to feel warmer, when the sun moves behind a cloud it seems to feel cooler. Sorry my silly little non-political non-corporation brain just can’t get past this feeling or am I missing something…
@stacyherbert
Have you ever been to Chicago my hometown? You have a rich lakefront and a middle class white ethnic far Northwest side with fireman and cops and lots of poverty in the middle. My Irish Aunt grewup on the Westside and so did my half Irish mother’s mother’s. Go in that part of the city you will see nothing but poverty, vacant lots, people hanging out of the corner, drug dealers and deplilated buildings. It has been this way for nearly 40 years! This were once nice working and middle areas.
You wouldn’t be pushing your/the opinion so hard unless there was a motive! dedo
Which reminds me of my motive; restricting energy use in the midst of a depression is suicidal. Besides, most everyone agrees it will get colder for the next 30 years so what is the rush? Plus Stacy, what is your view on nuclear power which could replace a lot of coal burning? Folks who are anti-energy are pro-slavery since energy frees man from drudgery.
… and have been doing everything possible but unfortanetely the deflationary pressures are to great and it ain’t taking ChArles
Bailing out the debtors (with an equal amount to the savers) would fix our near term problems but I reckon that is unthinkable.
Oh and to all you Exx-bots that keep linking to and emailing me this piece about ‘the latest global warming hoax/scandal’ of satellite data hoax, scandal, hoax, carbon tax, hoax here is Dr. Roy Spencer, a Denier Approved Scientist on that shriek:
Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D. says:
August 14, 2010 at 7:01 AM
the bad data are coming from the AVHRR on NOAA-16. I don’t know whether anone uses this for a climate dataset, but if they did, they would be doing quality control anyway. It has no impact on our measurements.
And here is Dr. Spencer’s satellite data for global temperatures since 1979:
Stacy
“@Giuseppe – nice try, but I do not purport to be a scientist nor do I produce allegedly scientific studies and research designed to confuse a non-scientific audience as Dr. Michaels does”
I just love it when you get all hot and bothered, sorry Max!
Oh and to all you Exx-bots … Stacy
OK, I am getting tired of insults. Everyone who is paid to express their opinions here, fess up.
Any Exx-bots here?
@F.Beard – it is one thing to express an opinion; it is another to cut and paste Exxon financed outrage like a unhinged bot; and, by the way, bots, as unthinking beings, do not respond to direct questions and cannot have original opinions, they are programmed to respond to certain trigger words with a cut and paste carpet bomb to a few links to Exxon financed ‘research’ before adding ‘global carbon tax,’ ‘hoax’ and then leave
Markets. Finance. the weather..
CLIMATE CHANGE ?
of course it does,
like the weather.
It IS the weather.
—————————————————–
We are being raped (financialy. etc). and we are worried about the weather??
OK Stacy, just so you don’t think I’m a bot. BTW, I’m watching a French film called Amelie. So far it is pretty funny though the French are, of course, insane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kX8lqXAONg
@nama rama – it’s the middle of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression and one weather event in Russia has cost the nation over 1% of GDP, but, more importantly, the cost of the floods in Pakistan has now hit $15 billion, which is nearly 10% of GDP there; and this, in turn, can have a knock on effect in accelerating the collapsing empire in Afghanistan ; buy on rumor, sell on history; I like to know where the financial chaos is likely to strike before it strikes
The Dust Bowl occurred during the Great Depression. The Lord works in mysterious ways but that one has me especially befuddled. It seems like He should have punished the bankers instead of the farmers.
@Stacy,….Original opinions,….where do I find them?
Tell us where you and mAx get them from,.. oops,.not mAx, I’ll give him his due, he’s an inventor “RESPECT”!!!!,…
I’m sure if anyone on here tried to introduce an original “opinion”,..not many folk would comprehend the meaning,..and start shouting abuse, e.g,..Troll,..Denier,..PIGG,..Ex Bot,..and the like ; )
Stacy: you are very “ad hominem”-like in your attacks on ´climate sceptics´ here. “Programming”. “Bots”. It borders on “me smart” / “you stupid” – i.e. “stupid for not understanding what I am understanding”.
How does this fit in with your (maxkeiser.com) otherwise egalitarian views on MSM/journalism/politics/economy?
@dedo
perhaps morphic resonance could satisfy your thirst.
The issue to debate is not if global warming is happening, the evidence seems to at least point to that as a strong possibility. What is more at issue, is this impact a man made or a natural phenomenom and is the implementation of acarbon tax is an effective way of managing it? Seems to me that whatever government does is flawed, inappropriate, wasted and inefficent. Why would anyone believe that a carbon tax would be any different from all the other failed initiatives? The money would just be siphoned off into another black hole of misallocated spending
here’s an original opinion. max has fractional reserve empathy, plus he thinks an ounce of gold weighs 28 grams. he’s high.
When it comes to climate change I prefer to rely on the hard scientific data found in pyramidology, phrenology, astrology, and primal therapies rather than from a bunch of pseudo scientists paid to espouse a view on either side!
@Stacy. the cost will be in lives. dollars are worth nothing. is the dollar worth something or not Stacy?
@Golden Spider – do you have any links?
Here Stacy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7959018/More-suppliers-going-bust.html
Britian closing down
Mike
@mae’s fanny,….RE: “morphic resonance”
Actually that idea rings home with me in a lot of ways! (Not that I “believe” him)
I’m not going to attempt to share my life experiences here on this forum,..but Sheldrakes theory is congruent with a lot of things that have happened to me.
I do love varying perspectives,….: )
We do like to try and give meaning to things,.as a species, don’t we!
nope! mAx knows the weight of gold varies depending on wind, atmospheric pressure, altitude, time of the day, day of month and last but not least the eye of the beholder
and Stacy. hillary is asking us to give but the us will not let the aid land at the airport in pakistan they control. you up to date girl. dollars?
@M/L – yes, and in the private sector, I know quite a few people who have had to shut down their businesses due to unpaid invoices for work they actually did; and in all of these cases, they were providing services for major corporations; they know if they avoid paying long enough, the small company will likely go bust
hi mike.
I know this futile, and truthfully not trolling even though I am bored at work…but am curious as to what the people who profess that Climate Change or CO2 or whatever we are calling the impact human development and use of fossil fuels is having on this planet…
what is it do you believe the proponets are advocating when they say “human behavior is adversely impacting it’s enviroment”???
B&B: Centrifuges spin at high rates of speed to enrich uranium that could be used for a nuclear weapon or to generate electricity. What does it mean that Iran has activated a second cascade of centrifuges?
Albright: Activating the second cascade produces enriched uranium more efficiently, but it doesn’t really lead to increased production. The reason for concern is that we have to wonder why they are doing it. They don’t need to produce 20% enriched uranium efficiently. You only need a little 20% for the research reactor, so we have to conclude that they are trying to learn how to operate this centrifuge cascade. If they were going to make weapons-grade uranium, they would definitely need to learn to make it more efficiently.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/08/iran-tehran-closer-to-weapons-grade-uranium-with-increased-enrichment-capabilities.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3PRV5JsTJg&feature=related
dollars are convenient around here.
@Namarama. don’t talk to me. i have used unpopular speech.
As a side note: Yikes!!
“You know a country’s human rights situation is bad when even Amnesty International is urging that a guy be methodically whipped or caned on his back as a compromise to avoid an even harsher sentence.”
“Human rights monitors have grown alarmed over the case of a Saudi man who might have his spinal cord severed as punishment for badly injuring another guy during a fight a few years ago.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/08/saudi-arabia-amnesty-international-urges-authorities-to-flog-suspect-instead-of-imposing-harsher-punishment-spinal-cord-mutil.html
what is it do you believe the proponets are advocating when they say “human behavior is adversely impacting it’s enviroment”??? chArles
“Though the planet can well afford my carbon foot print, allowing a decent life style for the poor will be too much so they must be kept poor.”
OR
“There is no God so I must be Him and am therefore responsible for even the climate.”
OR
“I was a spoiled little rich kid and must now inflict a hair-shirt on the rest of the world to assuage my guilt.”
OR
“There is no afterlife so we must make Earth a paradise even if it means killing off 9 out of 10 people”
I don’t like to dwell on pathological personality types too much so I’ll stop there.
EU and Brit Conservatives strangely find common ground……and threaten Iceland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/22/britain-iceland-faroe-islands-mackerel-war
DON’T GIVE THE FUCKERS ANYTHING!!
@dedo
I think much of his theories are just a new scientific perspective on and about old old questions. nevertheless some new nuggets in there. and absolutely fascinating.
I resonate
so… if the people and scientist whom choose not to believe in ‘climate change’ are being funded by the oil companies….(which is a pretty contradictory statement if you REALLY think about it) then wouldn’t that mean the people who tend to believe that it is happening…. are funded by the financial terrorist on Wall St. Seeing as you seem to want carbon taxation if you are so worried about the changing of climate…… Oh yeah that’s right, we’re too buys calling each other “Exx-obots” or what ever and “climate deniers” and other such names to bother using that thinking ability and process it took to think up those names to better use. Stick to Economics please, it’s really the only thing most of us can agree with each other on. Oh yeah, and your guys buddy alex jones is a ‘climate change denier’ also, so does that mean he’s a paid denier by the oil companies? See, the reason it’s so hot in parts of Europe right now, is not because of CO2 induced ‘climate change’, but rather, the sun has shifted it’s direction, seeing as it does this every few years. So, the past few years, North America has had some intense and radical heat waves during the summer and some of the off seasons. Now, it’s your turn Europe, Mother Nature and Father Earth have decided to give you guys some heat waves, and hey, maybe ya’ll could get some good vegetation growth out of this. Also, maybe with this thus sun shift, you Europeans won’t be so pasty looking and wont stand out so much when you vacation here in America.
“Human rights monitors have grown alarmed over the case of a Saudi man who might have his spinal cord severed as punishment for badly injuring another guy during a fight a few years ago.” Area “She’s not there” 52
Well, he did take a meat cleaver to his opponent’s back.
@ Denier’s.
Keep up the good work!
merry dance, and all that!
I am no Exx-bot. Don’t have a car. I take the plane each 10 year, My fossil fuel foot print is microscopic when I think about it. Probably much much much smaller than you.
I don’t eat 365 big macs per year don’t change my computer each 6 months. Don’t have an i-pod, don’t live in monstruous McManshion. I ride my bicycle, take the metro and live as monk, It’s not what I was saying. Yeah the climate is warming. And ywah it’s because MOSTLY because of solar activity, not CO2. That being said I am NOT a coal plant lover, a nuclear plant lover. True CO2 is a pollutant not good for the lungs and the brain. And yes me must be careful, whch is not the case with this Worldwide American Dream Dictatorship. Comprendo. No Exx-bot. Absolument pas. 
@Stacy
Nice mix of topics: Oil, War, Global Warming…
Here, throw this into the mix and see what happens. Global Warming warriors need to look again at ethanol. This happens to be a good blog entry to inject my thoughts… The same people spewing propaganda, “who operate the most expensive welfare operation ever devised by man, financed through the highest carbon taxes anywhere in the world”, are the same people spewing propaganda against ethanol. For over a hundred years ethanol has been the biggest threat to the oil industry. Rockefeller has dumped vast amounts of money for over a hundred years into stifling its production. He even handed the Women’s Temperance Society four million dollars in the Wilson era to lobby WashingtonDC for prohibition of alcohol. Oh boy, what an upright moral christian he was. Right. Prohibition didn’t work well to stifle comsumption, but what it did effectively do was stifle production. It essentially wiped out alcohol production as a fuel. Prohibition was lifted for consumption, but the apparatus for regulation of production was not. [Hearst said, "Wow, cool! I wonder if that will work as well with hemp?"] The API still throws gobs of cash into their propaganda campaign against ethanol. “Food vs. Fuel” is their creation. One hundred years ago Ford looked into the future and saw thousands of automobile fueling stations spread across America, all owned and run by local family farms. Back before prohibition most farms already produced their own alcohol for fuel. Rockefeller also looked into the future of the automobile with a very different vision than Ford’s. Ethanol is solar energy and takes carbon dioxide out of the atmoshere as the storehouse of sugar is produced in plants. We “refine” the sugar into ethanol and yes, some of the carbon dioxide is relaesed back into the air, but it’s the only fuel cycle that actually removes carbon from the air in its process. Brazil is doing quite well thank you, Scandinavia and China! are not far behind. It is a hot[head] topic and I woun’t bother posting a bagillion links to non-API-spoiled science articles, but I have an idea. OnTheEdge has a regular guest whom I’ve never heard speak on the issue. I’d love to hear her thoughts on the matter, and I’ll risk my questionable reputation on her being in the know and saying something positive about ethanol. Ask Catherine Austin-Fitts about ethanol.
What’s interesting is that when I go to Mother Earth’s very cool website, I recognize a good many of the EcoChix associated with the site, promote ethanol. I bet she doesn’t even know it.
I’m secretly promoting a state bank in Minnesota that circulates currency backed by ethanol (among other consumer-choice commodities). Okay, I lied. It’s not actually a secret.
@Stacy
@Golden Spider – do you have any links?
Hmm good question you cute little thing – I think not but let me consult my numerology chart first — no wait a minute maybe the answer lies somewhere in my latest Scientological engram?
Yes it says right here that the world is rapidly running out of oil and that the Chinese are going to start a little pollution control? There is hope!
Since you know my top, top secret real name now and where I live you must know that I am decidedly not pro oil, particularly if BNP has anything to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh and by the way. the data centres will be in place next year. you won”t be chipped but you won’t deal in cash. make sure you carry your paper work.
‘
Where’s Mike ?
At £4.8 Trillion In Total Debt Including Unfunded Liabilities, UK Debt Is Six Times More Than The Official Number
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/£48-trillion-total-debt-including-unfunded-liabilities-uk-debt-six-times-more-official-numbe
… and expect the British Pound to go UP tomorrow of course !
haha. everyone is afraid to give me an @. even snoot. i will be important again. gauranmutherfuckinteed.
@Max. when did china stop using silver for money?
Hi Ron
Given up, the market is rigged, so fine i have to wait for TOB but it will be so much nicer when it does arrive!
Mike
i’ll make it easy for you max. never.
Strange country USA …all that violence and corruption,. but still shy about seks !
Lexx
… The series is a Canadian and German co-production, with some additional funding from Britain’s Five. Not originally produced for a US network, the series features more sexual innuendo and nudity than audiences in the United States are generally accustomed to seeing in non-premium programming. …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx
Jezus .. I never noticed that !
@ronron,
I hain’t be scairt to give you no @. But even if’n Snoot ain’t got time for you maybe Cleetus or Steller do.
@Mike. read you stuff a itulip. i think? cheers. hope max doesn’t come unglued.
…all that violence and corruption,. but still shy about seks ! Mirror^2
Well, we do like to keep somethings sacred or at least naughty. The Europeans are probably bored with sex.
holy fuck it’s august 22. all the lesbians in town ride around naked on skateboards. gotta run. some of them set there hair on fire.
the last minute summarizes a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g1DR7upCQ8&feature=player_embedded
no cleetus is not rosax
praise you beardo. your alright. not in the head though.
interesting how the great majority of the contributors on this site seem at the very least to question AGW but Max and Stacy continue to doggedly worship at the alter, and at the same time lash out against said people. What a shame. Stacy why dont you get a ‘denier’ on the Keiser Report next time and he/she can debate you and Max….that i’d love to see.
I guess we’ve all forgotten about ‘Geo engineering’
http://www.attac-hellas.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=1&PHPSESSID=12a090b93ae866d8ee8ce49a2b0cbf8a
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=1120
or is this too much of a ‘conspiracy’…….
… not in the head though. ronron
Must have been that brick that hit me in the head. You remind me of “Bender” in “Futurerama”.
@Beardo.
your cool with me. if you like it go with it. don’t want to miss the lesbians. see y’all.
@ “Though the planet can well afford my carbon foot print, allowing a decent life style for the poor will be too much so they must be kept poor.”
the current expenditures that is causing the problem is going towards addressing the needs of the MEEK? really? I do not see that, I see the normal state of affairs where “old black joe is picken cotton for your ribbons and bows” luxary goods for the developed nations made at the exspense of the poor with the promise if they keep it up they’ll be one of the few developed rich nations
@ “There is no God so I must be Him and am therefore responsible for even the climate.”
this must be you own dog whistle…because I hear if there ain’t no g-d why bother do whatever ya want…or that must be another debating tactic…sometimes I get so confused
@ “I was a spoiled little rich kid and must now inflict a hair-shirt on the rest of the world to assuage my guilt.”
see point one, if the current social, political and economic system was going to increase the happiness of the great multitude you might have a point but it tain’t…also when did refusing to explot material wealth for personal gain become a hairshirt? or when did the well being of the poor could be addressed by increasing their material well being? I will argue this because I am on the Social Gospel side of this arguement….you cling to much to the old testement to be screaming…”the Kingdom of Heaven is here if one just opened their eyes.”
@ “There is no afterlife so we must make Earth a paradise even if it means killing off 9 out of 10 people”
really the advocates of climate change wish to commit global genocide because they don’t believe in an afterlife? I don’t believe in an afterlife and as such I may believe that this world and one life is all we get so I try to advocate policies and strategies to increase human happiness and oppose anything that would terminate a life of any kind, because they all have equal value…even though I hate people
not picking on you Beard you were the only one to answer the question
Global Warning BS costs Australian Prime Minister her majority.
Good Job, Australia!!
Nice to see people are waking up.
@Tony. global warming? don’t know. sure is convenient to introduce austerity.
@chArles,
It’s cool. My God says plenty about not lying, stealing and oppressing the poor but is rather silent on burning carbon. I figure it is a mute point anyway since if we did not allow the banks and borrowers to steal then the rest of humanity would not be so desperately poor so as to damage the environment.
Oops, yeah, typo — ‘Warming’ — Although warning is probably fitting since the people who support this nonsense tend to be pretty hardcore fascists.
Fox News co-owner funded ‘Ground Zero mosque’ imam: report http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/fox-shareholder-funded-mosque-imam/
Wikileaks’ Assange: Pentagon may be behind rape claims http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0822/wikileaks-pentagon-rape-claims/
Toxic legacy of US assault on Fallujah ‘worse than Hiroshima’ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/toxic-legacy-of-us-assault-on-fallujah-worse-than-hiroshima-2034065.html
Gulf oil spill: Most of the oil remains http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/08/noaa-official-concedes-majority-of-gulf-oil-still-there.html
poor stacy has been made a fool. pollution? oh ya. global warming? don’t know. neither does stacy.
‘Terror bird’ used its skull and beak to pick at its prey, scientists say
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-terrorbird-20100819,0,5239476.story
What is desirable in a man is his kindness, and it is better to be a poor man than a liar. Proverbs 19:22
what would be more important? pollution. easily proven by the lack of frogs, fish stocks and all other creatures that depend on healthy swamps, or global warming? fresh clean water. real food. stop making people run around to be whole. fuel is only needed for heat and light. air conditioning should be banned. who the fuck is buying investments. there’s a lot of unemployment to come. these lost jobs were fools errands anyway.
hahaha. the fucks selling RSP’s were running a fools errand for all these years and all they got was a pool, 2 cars, and a hot tub. got carpentry skills?
@Stacinium
You state:
nice try, but I do not purport to be a scientist nor do I produce allegedly scientific studies and research designed to confuse a non-scientific audience as Dr. Michaels does;
That’s unfortunate…
I was under the impression you were more diligent and thoughtful in your investigations relative to mAx…
Now I am not an accredited scientist myself, although I do have a scientific background, so perhaps my abilities are somewhat “leveraged” relative to you…
Have you read any of his work? Care to cite an example that so perniciously gets your panties in a knot?
There is a huge difference between a man posing as an expert scientist that receives direct industry funding (as opposed to indirect via, for example, a university) and who only ever produces research that ALWAYS proves the industry causes no harm and one journalist with an observation and an opinion
“Posing”?
Did you read his credentials?
Good gawd…
If anything, he’s a Scientist posing as a JOURNALIST…
Do you consider yourself a journalist?
What’s your REAL background?
But, I am now digressing from your main (albeit, divergent) counterpoint, so let’s examine that, shall we?
You cite 3 ABSTRACTS of Pharmaceutical and Health studies to support your claim that source of funding leads to research bias
Do you not see that you are making an error in your association here?
What is the difference between Pharmaceutical research and Climatology?
Pharmaceutical research is poignantly OBJECTIVE in its results, with direct effect on a particular drug company’s profits/losses with a product.
Climatological research is SUBJECTIVE in its results, being that it has no direct benefit to any one particular company or product, unless you can find something that explicitly shows otherwise…
I suppose the study on Saturated-fat and Cardiovascular disease has a subjective overtone to it, but again, it is NOT RELEVANT to the discussion at hand…
What it all comes down to is RESULTS OF STUDY…
and who directly benefits?
By your argument, there is NO UNBIASED RESEARCH possible in any subject…
Now if you can show me how Dr. Michaels’ funding from Coal Companies (yes, he did receive funding from some) or CATO (in 2006 and 2007 via his New Hope Environmental Services company) “skewed” his results from a particular study, then we can engage in a proper debate.
But this “proof” of yours is no better than my ridiculous logic experiment showing that mAx is a tool of Russian Energy Oligarchs, except that my “proof” was actually RELEVANT to the topic…
Perhaps another way to look at it is as follows:
mAx has an antagonist viewpoint in relation to American Politics and the Financial system.
In order for him to get “funding” so he can continue his “research” he needs to source it from some entity that is supportive of his claims…
Do you think the US Gov’t is going to sponsor him?
Of course not…
So Russian and Iranian state-sponsored organizations are there to help him out…
Now does this mean that mAx is towing the line for THEIR beliefs?
NO… his source of funding doesn’t alter his fundamental view, although, it certainly colours it somewhat (i.e. his focus on IRAN when on PressTV)
The issue is the same for the scientific community…
Especially in the matter of SUBJECTIVE analysis…
AGW/CC Proponents and Skeptics alike have fundamental viewpoints, but indelibly have little access to funds from neutral sources…
And what funds that are available from neutral sources have a tendency to be meager at best…
So they need to seek adequate funding from wherever they can…
Now if they are a Proponent, they’ll probably receive funding from larger organizations WITH A BIAS…
If they are a Skeptic, they’ll probably receive funding from fewer sources, but still, WITH A BIAS…
Perhaps you would like to discuss the bias of funding at East Anglia’s CRU?
or how about the IPCC?
How about NASA?
Do you think you have the capacity to actually find out some numbers in this regard?
Which side of the debate has more financial backing, eh?
I suspect that PROPONENTS have a greater varietal pool of funding to work from, don’t you?
The point I was trying to state (and will now reiterate) is that SOURCE of FUNDING does not imply a devious BIAS in the research…
The FUNDAMENTALS were there to begin with, irrespectively…
Now for your closer,
And if you can’t see the difference between the two then you are just, as I keep pointing out, programmed to shout upon hearing trigger words; these guys are experts at it, so I don’t blame you and hopefully pointing it out to you will help you out a bit.
You seem quite programmed to respond with an equally proportionate shout when confronted by evidence that requires a little more thought than merely reading headlines or abstracts…
I’m at least relieved, somewhat, that you aren’t whipping out that non sequitur defense like mAx and his Greek Mythology…
However, Miss Herbert, it would appear you are ill-equipped to manage any serious debate on the matter and as one of my favourite lines states;
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed (wo)man
I have made reasonable efforts at debate,
and you have regurgitated your “bot-program”…
As such, I will refrain from agitating you any further…
Live…and Let Live
even if they’re high from smoking Habanero-laden burritos
A mere mortal could save the USA with lower taxes, less spending, less regulation, sound money & robust foreign policy
Party like it’s 1929. China financing 5-yr infrastructure with 60-day money using off balance sheet SPV’s http://nyti.ms/9pXtmS.
NYTimesDowd says “Obama is the victim..” http://nyti.ms/boelCa. 41 mil on foodstamps & 21 mil un/under employed have better victim claim
air conditioning should be banned. ronron
Would you sentence Stacy to another hot summer in Paris?
When I was growing up, it was thought that nuclear power would make electricity too cheap to meter. What happened to that? Yea, I know. The Commies screwed up with Chernobyl and Three Mile Island released some radiation. Now Southerners and Stacy have to sweat because Americans are not up to the challenge of safe nuclear energy?
@ RonRon
5th generation carpenter…can’t find a job in this market other than as a retail schlub at the giant Orange box
@Donuts. i know most of the frogs are gone but i’m not a scientist.
@Beardo. close the windows and drapes on hot days and drink water from a quebec stream. @chArles. all kinds of work in my area. you’ll come in handy sooner or later.
air con is unhealthy.
@chArles. i was not working for 4 months with no safety net. old man back in the union. 2 years work. after that?
@Giuseppe Bagodonutti ….well put friend….personally I would have opted for the much simpler view that green stormtroopers are little more than leg humping chiuauas……this one sorta looks like Stacy
http://images.google.co.th/imgres?imgurl=http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e281/clandsportsman/chiuaua7lp.png&imgrefurl=http://www.myspace.com/deathrumble6000&usg=__zFj7p79Ynheh-E-1T7rXzDye6LQ=&h=422&w=600&sz=200&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=-gK3NAqv1C2StM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=164&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchiuaua%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26gbv%3D2%26biw%3D1276%26bih%3D839%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=124&ei=i7xxTP_KM5a8ugOIsMBB&oei=i7xxTP_KM5a8ugOIsMBB&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=58&ty=48
wonder if stacy looks for a cancer cure in her spare time? i know the cause.
That guy on RT is excactly saying what I stated yesterday: nuclear threat of Iran is only media lies, the same lies of Irak having Weapons of Mass Destruction. US: I am getting bored, try something else next time.
A mere mortal could save the USA with lower taxes, less spending, less regulation, sound money & robust foreign policy
Party like it’s 1929. China financing 5-yr infrastructure with 60-day money using off balance sheet SPV’s http://nyti.ms/9pXtmS.
NYTimesDowd says “Obama is the victim..” http://nyti.ms/boelCa. 41 mil on foodstamps & 21 mil un/under employed have better victim claim
Mirror mirror?
@dan valley,
Lucky for you this is not the Age Of Duels otherwise Stacy’s male admirers would call you out and apply possibly lethal therapy to your lack of respect for a fine lady.
someday stacy will understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwNuQulK6N0
@F. Beard I think stacy can take care of herself and is able to laugh at herself …..but if someone wants to get an asskicking in the name of protecting a womans honor come on down………..personally……………… YAWN.
I am mostly a silent reader here and enjoy the topics, informative links, the outlandish comments, also the silly, some stuff that is beyond me, I do not understand and …. loads of common sense. Thank you all.
When it comes to the CO2/AGW debate, however, I am sorry to say that common sense arguments, sensible and healthy criticism appear to trigger an unholy sensitive button on the dashboard of the otherwise much admired and respected authors and owners of this site. Instant emotional lift off and atypical, thinly veiled condescending insults are the result. This is not necessary and really sad, unless and if…ok, that s enough. Honni soit qui mal y pense.
A sensible voice on the topic for the average Joe like me, imho: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/07/my-global-warming-skepticism-for-dummies/
And since RT is the voice of unbiased info, the station of steely facts, this old Marxist internationalist must have some superior credibility, no? (at last vs a Cato Institute mouth piece and all the Exx-boties out there – whatever creature or body part that is) http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaToday#p/search/0/pRRXZ1B5foE
Constantly refering to American forces as does the commentator on Iram vid, is inaccurate. America is no longer in existance. The United States elite government and its military are under direct control of the organized forces who own and control the US dollar. They have a plan for one world currency and one world government which they have been preparing for for decades. All media is controlled by them and any media of war is total propoganda for purpose to succeed with the agenda of world government and world policing.
commies are not the only one having nuclear fuck-ups. although Ukraine’s was a major one.
besides here’s another track record
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAnqRQg-W0k&feature=player_embedded
not to mention depleted uranium here and there and pretty much everywhere.
Good news is……. I hired an American last week Im one up on ole Barry O Banana
…..but if someone wants to get an asskicking in the name of protecting a womans honor come on down………..personally……………… YAWN. dan valley
Bathing trunks and sawed off shotguns at two paces suit you?
@DanValley. an american? headdress and all?
A mere mortal could save the USA with lower taxes, less spending, less regulation, sound money & robust foreign policy dan valley
Lower taxes would be good, less spending would be bad, less regulation would be good, your idea of sound money would probably be bad and I shudder to think of your robust foreign policy. A Rush Limbaugh fan?
@F. Beard
http://www.solarrefrigeration.org/
What are the bathing trunks for?
FDA Uses Massive Egg Recall to Push for Egg Pasteurization
http://www.naturalnews.com/029538_FDA_egg_pasteurization.html
@Mother,
Funny you should mention that. I lived in Houston for 20 years so the idea of a desiccant based air-conditioner occurred to me. Basically, solar heat would be used to dry the desiccant, which would then have to be cooled without gaining humidly before being allowed to absorb interior humidity. I’m glad to see other folks thinking along those lines; it is a good idea I think.
Sweden Drops Rape Accusation Against Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/08/21/sweden.wikileaks.charge/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1#fbid=DZl5iq2HGUQ&wom=false
What are the bathing trunks for? dan valley
To preclude the use of body armor.
To Stacy Herbert:
Forgive me O Great One, for I have erred! My AGW reflex (anti-global warming) caused me to jump to a precipitous conclusion. I can only assume that the high CO2 level in the atmosphere has diluted the O2 getting to my brain and hindered my thinking process. . so, as you commanded, I shall repeat after you, O mighty One:” Dr. Michaels is one of the Truth-Sayers; ‘global warming is a hoax’, ‘world socialism is better than rigged market capitalism’, ‘the carbon tax will make the Wall St banksters even richer ’ . . . .”
The International: You Control The Debt, You Control Everything
http://libertypulse.com/article/-the-international-control/
@balois
Stop insulting yourself.
Being a AGW sceptic is no feat of any stature, it is mere regurgitation that the first messenger of the oil industry put in your mind. Don’t worry, you are not a problem for those in the know, nobody is really, because the large majority of people doesn’t think or listen to anything but marketing messages.
If you are one of those with an opinion, at least get it right.
F. Beard is excused as he is a religious nut of some sort..
@F. Beard
Crums my lad, breadcrums..’A good idea’..How about steam jet cooling, used in steamtrains when they existed..
@F beard who needs body armor….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Blahyi
The International: You Control The Debt, You Control Everything dan valley
Yep. And with 30-1 leverage ratios most of that debt is counterfeit.
who needs body armor…. dan valley
“Fate sometimes saves a man if his courage is good” Beowulf
How about steam jet cooling, used in steamtrains when they existed.. Mother Earth
Never heard of it till now but it is an interesting idea. The catch is to create the vacuum which require energy.
“I remain optimistic that the forces of delay will eventually be put aside”.
Voila – eradicate petro-$ denominated energy and implement alternative energies currently hidden behind closed doors by those who rely on a petro-$ to fulfill their sick and twisted agenda.
DYOR
@stacy:
The dollar value is determined by the exchange of six currencies: yen, euro, pound, loonie, krona, and swiss franc. The dollar value is not determined by exchange within its own volition but from the volition of the movement of those six currencies. Since this is so, how can the dollar, a synthetic index, be called a ‘floating currency’? The dollar is unique to currencies as being the fulcrum of valuation for pricing.
The dollar, yen, euro, and pound also retain value within the context of the sdr/index. Global trade retains privilege for the sdr/indexed movement of currency.
Right?
And the ‘set’ of these exchange rates are moderated by sole authority of men who also control the sdr. The set-up is a foolproof, error-free siphon for profit.
The men making the moves to a new exchange are the same men who have profited from the corrupt and corrupting dollar system.
It is this context that creates division for many regarding the carbon tax/exchange ponzi. Calling those that question by the term ‘ex-bots’ and maintaining a stance procreate with the monetary authorities is at odd balance for one who calls men to rise up.
hey dan , john harris over tpuc.org says the logo of their site has connection with native American language which is the same as ancient corwell (england)
you know anything about it? what you think?
@mae’s fanny – you’ve posted some great info links recently esp. tpuc – many thanks.
@What-me-worry?
thank you my friend for the validation! I’m glad you find it useful. and yes those guys at tpuc are doing great work.
“The whole world is a stage”…..and these jerks are just actors.
just watched the videos, now that I am home…amused that even the advocates that “There Ain’t no man made Global Warming” in upper class educated audiences tailor their message to “well yes there is man made global warming but there isn’t an effective alternative to doing what we are doing, just the cost benifits don’t work out to our advantage currently” “Sorry wish we could do something but we can’t”
then there advocates/bots/trolls/whatever the dispairing term of the day is start parroting
“CO2 is plant food…Water Vaper…NWO Socialist Conspiracy or whatever”…people like old Micheal’s who send out that Dog whistle to the lower caste via Rush, Glenn Beck, Hannity and AJS, or others, won’t say that tripe in public to an educated auidence…he’ll play up their own selfishness, but won’t openly challenge their intellects
amused even Sarah Palin will cop to Man Made Global Warming in adult auidences but when amougst the children she’ll parrot the talking points provided by her owners
Matt Simmons and the production of NH3 and distilled water from wind turbines in deep sea:
http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/2010-8-9-special-feature-conversation-matt-simmons/
Bad-mouthing BP is a US national pastime – everyone is encouraged to do that without consequence.
Alternative energies (NH3, HHO, EMC) however are ‘not welcome’ by the “forces of delay”.
9:32 “and, everytime you threaten an apocalypse and it doesn’t happen, you cheapen the issue.” Both wise and cunning words by p michaels.
I’m with Mahatma Ghandi on this one: “You must be the change you want to see in the world.” The current cases of carbon tax show it’s a farcical idea invented by bureucrates to make us think they have our best interests at heart.
Sorry, I have no original ideas to offer. Here’s another used idea: “Let him that would move the world, first move himself.” – Socrates
Maybe shifting the discussing to BELIEFS wouldn’t be a bad idea.
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/belief_engine/
This article changed my mindset and part of my life.
If you’re going to ask one guy in a debate where his funding comes from, you should ask all the people in the debate. Global Warming solutions create winners and losers. The losers are the taxpayers that will pay all for nothing. More freeloaders – that’s what we need.
The Myth of the Engineered Recession.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north878.html
@yoyo
“If global warming is caused by man, we’re doomed. ”
Not necessarily, let’s test it and find out.
Let’s shut the whole world down for one week; baring emergency and vital necessities, see what happens.
A concerted effort will be needed to convince those, mostly in the US, who do not believe global climate change exists. In that case peak oil and higher prices could be the only components that will facilitate their participation.
Outside of using Cap n’ Trade and scarcity of oil there is another way, but it will take strong leadership.
It would be very advantageous for nations like China or India to lead the way in the global shut down effort; I think the EU and Japan would readily join in.
If these major powers went ahead without the US once the data and results were in all kinds of foreign taxes could be imposed on sales to and from the US.
I don’t think the US would want a good number of the resulting perceptions out there so they might quickly reconsider their participation.
I think what people will find is no real solution to the changing climate, but what they will discovered is a better quality of air in the communities they live and opportunities to directly change their environment.
Cap n’ Trade alone, which may or may not work for Mother Earth, does nothing for those in local communities who will end up paying more to breath already polluted air.
If we can’t find a way to at least make an effort then perhaps you’re conclusion is correct.
Israeli official declares: ‘We’re preparing for war’ – Warns if world doesn’t stop Iran, Jewish nation may be forced to act http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=194409
After Finally Covering The Massive Retail Outflows, The NYT Also “Discloses” The Nanex Crop Circle Mystery http://www.zerohedge.com/article/after-finally-covering-massive-retail-outflows-nyt-also-discloses-nanex-crop-circle-mystery
@pedro
but isn’t the concept of truth also a belief? How are we to judge the truth experience? a circular problem don’t you agree?
@what me worry
distilled water and nh3 both sought after produce. I wish him luck.
@F. Beard
Excellent first measure. Ban air conditionnig for Nevada, Californai, Mexico. Saudi Arabia and all places where we shouldn’t live. You have NO BUSINESS living in the desert with golf courses and air conditionning. That’s why I say we must destroy the Aemerican Dream. Las Vegas is the summum of an ecological non sense. California also.
@ronron
We don’t have problems with that here. It’s your fault in Ontario and the ROC.
Inside political joke. More seriously frogs are very vulnerable to insecticides and pesticides because their respiration is done in great part by the skin.
There is another major factor, destruction of the swamps by the godamn real estate speultators and stupid municipal politicians obessed with collecting taxes. 60% of animal species live in swamplands and the idoits we are, are destroying them for agriculture or real estate biubbles or intensive oil extraction. Not bad hey for an Exx-bot ?
Theyre hot
theyre sexy
theyre undead
theyre bankers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/anna-paquin-stephen-moyer_1_n_685053.html
Stay outraged, Progressives. Let your naive belief in the possibility of reform fuel your righteous anger. As intellectual giants, never question that you are being manipulated by your emotional response:
Risk = hazard + outrage
@Stacy — guest for your show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1hyqA6UTY
Scott Horton did an excellent job putting the facts out. Hope Americans pay attention. Good job by RT. They let him talk without interruption.
I like to see Israel get out of our politics and stop the false flags and spying.
I’ve been out much of the day, running around, looks like I missed all the intensity. The Global Warming thing looks hot, at least on this board.
I’m not into apocalyptic visions of the climate, I’m more into problems with economics.
I think Green energy is a good idea generally, and have personally promoted it, but I don’t think it makes you an Exxon – bot, if you notice how often the climate models change and are tweaked.
Those are models that are not working. But it provides work for some people, and in this economy, maybe that’s a good thing…
One thing strikes me about this board, it crosses many time zones. I know Max and Stacy are hardworking, I see their input here fairly often, at all hors of the day. I’m starting to think they are superhuman, as I can’t see when they possibly sleep…
Groan, I meant hours, not hors…
don’t know about risk but, funny thing moral hazard!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBcmqwTV9s&feature=player_embedded
@Jayme,
“The current cases of carbon tax show it’s a farcical idea invented by bureucrates to make us think they have our best interests at heart.”
Uhm, I think Stacy’s point is that we’re already paying a “carbon tax” in terms of the socialized costs of supporting (and picking up after) Big Oil, including maintaining wars in Muslim countries to secure oil reserves.
After all, she came right out and said it:
“the neo-conservatives . . . operate the most expensive welfare operation ever devised by man, financed through the highest carbon taxes anywhere in the world. Two trillion dollars per year alone in the US is collected in tax revenue, half of it goes directly to the military to secure oil reserves around the world, including next those of Iran”
Get it? Americans already pay $1T/year in carbon taxes.
Or am I the one being obtuse?
I think you are right on the target Tao, except, I don’t think its just US citizen’s tax money paying for those adventures.
@stacy
You’ve gotten pretty ornery lately. How can you accuse people of just parroting off things they’ve heard as if they have now understanding of what they have heard? You said yourself that you are not a scientist so obviously you do not intimately understand what you purport to believe and are also just parroting. After all the first speaker in the video himself said that he “believes” that global warming is due to man made CO2. He is not conclusive that that is the cause which leaves room for skepticism.
This is what makes this issue so difficult. In order to truly understand either side you need to understand the math and the science behind it and check the if the scientific method was properly used. I think it is safe to assume that none of us in this forum have done this.
It’s not that us deniers don’t necessarily believe that global warming doesn’t happen. We just don’t believe it is man made or caused by CO2. The climate has been changing since time began. Historically we can point to the Ice Age, The Little Ice Age, and the Medieval Warm Period. Were all those changes man made also? Are we to assume that these events can not occur ever again unless human meddling is involved?
Why is it that discourse about the Earth has turned away from pollution, smog and other types of environmental damage and focused solely on CO2. The biggest offenders of pollution and so-called damaging C02 are the big corporations with their unethical, cost-avoidance-at-the-expense-of-the-people/environment.
Why is it that the only solution to this “problem” is to tax the hell out of people and redistribute it to third world countries as some sort of compensation that won’t change anything. I the gov’t cared so much about the environment why doesn’t it encourage development of alternative energy? I am really surprised that with all the technological ability that the world has today we don’t have any secondary energy resources implemented.
I think that the gov’t interest in the environment & the climate can best be examined by the handling of the BP oil spill. The ocean is dieing, the people there are out of work, getting sick & many of them will die more painfully than the ocean, and BP is making out like a bandit shielded by Mr. Hope and Change himself.
I don’t know who is making profits from the carbon taxes but it will solve nothing.
@justhearsay
My position is not too far from yours. I think man-made global warming is possible, but as much from paving everything with blacktop as CO2.
I am not a Climatologist, but have an old Meteorology degree I never really used professionaly, but was exposed to the mathematics of the weather forecasting business. I have patiently tried to explain the limitations of modeling, and they are considerable. Even for daily forecasts, mathematically, some gross simplifications have to be made to even get the daily forecast models to have output. The Climate ‘science’ modeling industry is a growth industry, but the models need constant tweaking to match real data. That’s the signature of a bad model…
If the mathematics that launches humans into space was as dicey as math for climate models, we would have dumped quite a few astronauts into the ocean by now, or worse..
That said, I think it’s possible humans are causing ‘some’ climate change, It’s just you’ll never quantitatively prove it..
A nive little real story for all of you greenies.
It’s an amusing example to what happenef to the famous promises on recycling of the paper thrown in the garbadge. In theory it was a fantastic idea. Still is. But there was a but………
But there was a fly in ointment. In the beginning paper manufacturers were offering to the cities 144$ per ton for used paper. And then. And then everybody started recycling. Then in just a couple of months the price of used paper plummeted to 4$ a ton. All recyclers went bankrupt.
And what happens TODAY because the lack of vision by politicians that have no idea how markets works? Well the paper is picked up and simply biurned ! A nice CO2 fable.
You have to be cynical with ecologists. They rearely know something about ecology or economy. No exx-bot just very very critical about ecologists.
They make me think a lot to the Communists. You do not improvise such a change of society by simplistic measures that are supposed to fix everything like by magic.
Tears For Fears – Everybody Wants To Rule The World [5:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtx3ezwDyO0
time for a new day.
for all you cat herders out there…run little doggy run..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWymXNPaU7g&p=BEAB7F5E46CBF7F5&index=2&playnext=2
apparently EDS does cat herding. Didn’t know that.
1) Partisanry: Sham Covenants of Propaganda
You really have to congratulate the Petroleum/Banker Cartel’s ability to turn a legitimate and grossly apparent Global Ecological Crisis into a partisan issue. They’ve mapped out the sides and pander to the American “Cowboy”, white hat/black hat, ideological fetish. We see such meaningless bifurcations in politics, economics, religion and, in its purest form, sports. It is a classic marketing technique that goes all the way back to the spread of Christian Doctrine—> “If you are not with me you are against me.”
The “Global Warming” label is now an epithet as loaded with obloquy as “Liberal” in the United States. Any acceptance of Global Warming theory is, much like being a “Liberal”, deemed “anti-American” and a threat to liberty.
Professional ‘rasslin style narratives dominate the debate. People identify with a stance and find pride in “not being fooled” or shame in being “conned by Global Elites”. The entire crisis has been made meaningless in an uneven war of truth versus a well funded propaganda campaign. A real crisis has been denigrated into a trivialized partisan debate. Propaganda hands the Petroleum Cartel the inertia it desires. Why else would they invest billions in spreading disinformation? Inertia towards clean energy initiatives makes them trillions.
Has partisanry improved the US political system? It has improved the entire political system’s ability to reward the super rich funders at the expense of middle and lower class citizens.
2) Ideological Sacrifice through Market Capture
Whoever spends the most money has the ability to disseminate the most (dis)information and capture the debate. It’s amusing some are paranoid about Al Gore and taxes on Carbon consumption when they already pay much more to establish military presence, occupations, wars, government tax breaks and grants benefiting the Oil Cartels controlling everyone’s access to carbon based fuel consumption . And, as others have noted, the Big Banks are in collusion with Big Oil. The Speculative Practices of Banks and Hedge Funds largely game the Oil Price rates on COMEX.
The Climate Change narrative has been “Captured”, in the market sense, by Big Oil Propaganda. The US consumers addiction to Petroleum based consumption is “Too Big to Fail”. Of course the Oil Co’s, taking a cue from Big Tobacco, broadcast commercials highlighting their pious concerns for the Environment and eager devotion to fund Clean Energy initiatives. They talk a good game and do nothing. Quoting Jesus again, “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” They pay lip service and, like Wall Street, continue to engage in a captured market system which serves them.
Propaganda is disseminated to soften the brains of the masses to see real conditions transmogrified by over simplification and obfuscation into false dichotomies. This practice hides the effort of moneyed interests to capture and dominate markets. It is a mass marketing effort to dupe many for the gain of a few. God forbid anyone mention “Class Warfare”! Big Money(Corporatists and Financiers) has been attacking, in collusion with every facet of the US Government, the middle and lower classes for 4 decades! You never hear about this in the MSM. If someone dares mention it they are dismissed as an espouser of “Class Warfare” and labelled as a Socialist or Marxist. Big Money has captured that debate. The Tea Party movement is so captured their eyes fail to see the obvious redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle classes to the plutocrats. They are too busy convincing themselves that President Obama is an evil Socialist and Muslim Kenyan attempting to steal money from real Americans(whites) to coddle poor immigrants and welfare bums! These people surrender all thought to the basest propaganda. It is intellectually and ethically spineless. They are the ignorant tools of racist scapegoating which toadies up to the plutocrats. It is no surprise they came out against Net Neutrality “in the interests of Freer Markets”.
Global Warming deniers are also spineless. They toady up to the Oil Cartel by becoming the ignorant tools of a propaganda which displaces the reality of ecological disaster and, instead, trumps up irrational fears of a “one world government” funded by “carbon taxes” which will only benefit “the Global Elite”. If you look at the Global Elite you will find all of them have built their riches through direct or indirect connections with Big Oil. World Governance is ALREADY dominated by Big Oil. All of the recent military actions, trade and financial policies are based on the need to secure more resource capture for Big Oil. Every nation is involved.
Monsanto, Too Big to Fail Banks, The Petroleum Industry and the Two Party dominated US political system–all utilize this methodology. Their security wing is the US Military(Pentagon), CIA-NSA, FBI, DEA and the FDA. They employ “kind-hearted” NGO’s in poor countries to gain market dominance. Good cops and bad cops abound in this system.
3) The End of Times(Speculative Golgotha)
It is not a conspiracy. The accumulation and centralization of wealth becomes manically exagerrated in Financialization. Capital itself is buried under the dust of Speculative Securitization. Nothing makes money but money in this system. Debt is more lucrative than Capitalist enterprise. Under the euphemism of “market creation” wealth is redistributed from the debt ridden and the savers to wealthy speculators.
Monetarist policy is the Golgotha of Capitalism. Austerity measures preached by Financiers(Bankers, Investors, Economists, Politicians) are merely a fervent desire that the people walk the “Via Dolorosa”, not them. Bail outs are the (false)Resurrection where the Zombie Jesus(Debt ridden consumers) walks the Earth again for the finale. They are denied Ascension into Heaven. This time the Financiers shall rise into Heaven on the back of zombie debtors. They will “walk with bare feet” and be Eternally Absolved by the crucifixion of debt ridden consumers in their place. The blood of the people will wash away their sins.
AMEN
@ Mark Lytle
I see your that recycling counters itself via creating a surplus thus forcing itself out of biddness and raise you
the true cost of twinkees
http://faculty.plattsburgh.edu/richard.robbins/political_economy_of_twinkies.htm
you think climate mapping is difficult try True Cost mapping of human action…try mapping that, thats why ever econ boy from Smith, Rticardo, MArx to those 29th century con men Keynes and Hyek didn’t ever try to map it….the whole profession doesn’t even pay attention to rudimentry psych and still maps according to “Economic Man” or Rational Self interest man, which is nonsensical with even the most rudimentry understanding of human behavior….MArx is rightfully laughed at by mainstream Sociologist from Weber forward let alone the Anarchist of his day who called him for his faith in this deity, amusingly all those cryptoCapitolist still hold faith in this dead G-d
hope you take this with the tounge firmly in check it was meant
@chArles
Yes, I think I see what your saying a lot of economic models are oversimplifications too..
true…
Global destruction music video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsYVHZFukzc
@ Mark Lytle
As an undergrad I spent two years trying to write unbiased questions for a Cognitive study to test a biological basis for Moral aptitude…(is empathy mapped into us biologically) the Prof brought me in because of my hyper cynicism and severe questioning of current biological basis of most modern psychology coupled with my philosophy and social/political science background (inter -discipline studies were the rage and could get the most funding at the time) it was futile and the level of complexity involved made it untestable….in social science we are ecstatic to get anything above a 0.3 in testing and that is only 0.1 better than chance…
so I am always amused at the prophets of whatever economic faith putting forth with the same degree of certainty that we should reserve for “what temp water boils at sea level” their faith is TRUE…notice if you will the biggest critics of the uncertainty of man made global warming, will not show the same level of skepticism on their TRUE faith
Back in 2000, I looked up the ranking of texas education under Bush. 49th place, just above Mississippi.
When doing a couple of projects, in Texas, 2004 and 2006, I was struck by the incessant CNN “Headline News” loopig at almost every retial outlet on some tv somewhere. The proper term is brainwashing.
I was struck by the amount of obese people, many driving Super Walmart carts. I was baffled by the fact there were three Super Walmart outlets along one strip of highway, only 15 minutes apart. Literally.
Exactly what is the point of having a freeway that zooms you quickly to Super Walmart, if you build one at almost every off-ramp??
But mostly I was struck by the Super Walmart Churches, and the obviously fake “freindliness” of most Texans while they exhibited the lowest IQ I have ever witnesses in any state except Idaho.
Well, 10 years later, here we are: Texas (leading) the nation in ‘Tooopid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQVfQCpYocQ&feature=player_embedded
@chArles
You won’t have that problem with me, I’m pretty agnostic on most everything…I think there are brilliant and insightful thinker sprinkled around, but I also think the ‘system’ suppresses most of them.
Most of what we actually get is corporate approved bullshit.
However, sounds like you’ve done some good research..
I think I said a rough word there, sorry Stacey…
What you talking about no inflation????
Prison Economy Spirals As Price Of Pack Of Cigarettes Exceeds Two Hand Jobs
http://www.theonion.com/video/prison-economy-spirals-as-price-of-pack-of-cigaret,14327/
Sachs is a fucking liar. Scare-monger.
There are no “hard facts” ANYWHERE that “prove” the people of the Earth will get a huge case of the “vapors” if they hear the truth. “Millions will be at risk” if we do the right thing…sure. Billions in oil corp profit more like it.
“Only us god-like pundits have the IQ and expertise to decide these things…and you serfs will follow along!”
Zionist babblespeak.
@chArles
My problems with climate modeling starts well past the certitude of the temperature of boiling water.
They have, for example to model how much of the sun’s heat is reflected by clouds. That varies according to whether the clouds are cirriform clouds (ice cystals) or cumuliform (puffy, water vapor only)). It also depends on how many layers of clouds and what angle the sun’s at. This problem is just a tiny fration of the complexity…
Just Observin Hi Y’all
if all goes to plan
I gonna be busy fer ta next year ten I retire
Hic
Sos I gonna be observin tas all Cause I had me say
Tears notin much to add
BAAAALBEK RUINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Tofu
I don’t think I’m as strongly principled as that fellow. I think I’d give-in to the system if I were in his shoes. If I had Ben Bernanke hovering over my house like that, I’d not likely get pissed and run off to the City Council to vent my spleen. No I’d likely keep my head, sell my soul, and signal the pilot to land next to my wheelbarrow so I wouldn’t have to run around the yard like a chicken with its head cut off, groping for bills…
I think I’ll add that “terror-baby firm” to my aforementioned suicide-accessory portfolio. damn what an imagination! I loved ” fill that gaping hole ” stuff. Man what a judges.yeeha!
watch farang’s video and learn boys and girls.
that’s how a professional media programmers (farmers) plant a seed. very clever, very clever indeed! I don’t remember what they call it but is common practice texas thing pretending to be dimwit. any one remember bushes campaign manager?
BTW
here is new 7/7 documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAj6RF5inqw&feature=player_embedded
The Cato Institute, “libertarian think tank” in Washington D.C., is a complete and utter fraud. I smelled a rat back in 2007 when these guys went out of their way to discredit Ron Paul and refused to endorse him but now the truth is revealed. Here’s what they thought of Ron Paul back in 2007: http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/12/07/cato-institute-vp-sne…
The guy admits on CNN that Cato’s research is funded by oil interests of around 40%! That means Haliburton and other war and oil related interests have their claws in a “libertarian” think tank that’s no more libertarian than Fareed Zakaria is a unbiased moderator.
This is the most fraudulent display I have ever witnessed on CNN, but what could we expect when it’s hosted by Fareed Zakaria a high level CFR and Trilateral Commission policy maker.
Free markets do not equal corporatism. The Cato Institute is a paid mouth piece posing as libertarians for a bunch of corporatists.
In my book, Cato is more dangerous than any right-wing fascist or left-wing socialist group because they hide behind false labels and use slick salesman to manipulate public opinion on the very label they hide behind. They are treacherous!
Lastly, knowing how much money the oil companies have pumped into green technologies, and knowing how people like Maurice Strong have deviously put themselves at the center of the Global Warming debate makes the “man-made” global warming issue and this CNN debate seem like an even bigger fraud.
Watching that CNN debate reveals a disgusting display of bulls#$% that is involved on a seemingly two sided debate but in reality is a one headed dragon.
Warren Pollock…
Question More (the slogan of RT – Latest News)
… How can it be the major alternate news heros including Gerald Celente, Webster Tarply, and Geroge4title can play into this propagada engine?
We know that John Birch, via Alex Jones, are hoping for a revolution to cloud cover a takeover. Why is Max Keiser, Celente tied into Jones and Russia Today? Do you think these people can control the momentum generated by the GRU/KGB? We need to ask more questions without them we face a certain unrecoverable breakdown condition. …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ozVpIOlMA
I wonder if Warren has considered that USU MSM effectively boycotts them. Seems he is warning that maybe the KGB is using them as an instrument to break down the USA.
FWIW
@mae,
In the short term, you’re right, the American taxpayer is not footing the bill. In the longer term, though . . .
Always enjoy your insight.
As a scientist who has become interested in economics, I have been astounded at some of the alchemy and gibberish that passes for economic analysis (“technical” analysis… perlease!), so I guess I can understand the general scepticism here of scientists and climate research. Just HearSay says “In order to truly understand either side you need to understand the math and the science behind it and check the if the scientific method was properly used”… well perhaps it’s time for a little humility and recognition that perhaps the people best placed to understand the math and the science are the climate scientists.
There seems to be a belief that scientsts have a vested interest (for funding etc) in publishing with the general consensus, but believe me, one of the best ways to find fame and notoriety is to publish convincing evidence against the consensus. Even Peter Duesberg, who espoused for 10 years the contrarian belief that AIDS was not caused by HIV, was able to discuss this idea regularly in the top scientific journal, Nature.
@Bel-Ami,
Well said.
Unfortunately for you (and us all), the architects of modern libertarianism (neoliberalism) hit upon the perfect sales pitch for slavery: liberty shackles!!! Just put these on, shut your brain off, and your life will be determined by the market, in which you have no say.
And these people have audacity to believe that everybody else is being irrational when they’re the ones who salivate whenever their “liberty” bell is rung?
@RedZebra,
As somebody trained in both electrical engineering and the law, I’m with you! Economics is first and foremost propaganda. Neoliberal economics (the Chicago and Austrian schools) stray into religion.
Check out heterodox Post-Keynesian economis Steve Keen and his book Debunking Economics for the only scientific approach to political economy that I can find out there (sure there are more in his “school”).
This post from Steve’s blog helped me start finding real data and theory that was falsifiable:
http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/
On the social sciences side, I’m more of an institutional economist of the Gunar Myrdall, JK Galbraith, Thorstein Verblen variety.And I think econ is primarily a social science, by the way . . .
@RedZebra
LOL! Are you serious, Duesberg? He’s been labeled a hack, nutcase, and fraud. The only people that respect him are the HIV positive patients that are battling on the front lines of the giant mound of bull@$%# that is HIV! If Duesberg would have towed the “party line” he would be making millions from various capital channels thoughout the scientific community. Instead now he has to live in a very small world of respect and a larger one of disdain.
(You sir, have just discredited yourself for everyone to see.)
@Tao Jonesing
Don’t be afraid of the free market. There will be a place at the dinner table for you, probably a very very small one though, but a space is a space and you’ll be given equal chance to pull yourself up….
Without also researching chemtrails and other such weather manipulation techniques, this conversation is pointless.
Not researching weather manipulation is no different than blindly accepting ‘the housing crisis’ as the one and only cause of the recent economic collapse and ignoring the derivatives market and it’s manipulation.
Stacy, he may not have your looks but he’s a much better scientist
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-08-22/corbyn-heatwave-russia-weather.html
@John Smith,…..You won’t get Stacy or mAx discussing way out (wacky),irrelevant topics like that on this forum,…they only stick to the “facts”
(What did someone say about sarcasm being the lowest form of wit,…whatever! )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVJUMty-KA&feature=search
There has never been a “Free Market”. Markets are where values for goods and services are established and exchanged. Once value is set and a mode of exchange is created markets become unfree. The growth of markets tend to concentrate wealth and power into the hands of a few. Periods of the greatest “Free Market Expansion” were marked by Slavery, Child Labor and Monopolies. Inequalities of wealth distribution were at their highest. The Government used the Police and State Militias to crush Labor Strikes. They, the government, sided with the Capitalists. Markets have never brought freedom to any society. They have brought wealth for some and indentured servitude to many. Markets are an aspect of social exchange via surplus and have never been a Demiurge for human liberty.
Markets are unfree just as private property is theft. Libertarians cry foul about Government intervention into “free markets” while clinging dearly to private property. There would be no private property without the sanction of Government force.
Someone posted that Weber and other modern Sociologists “laughed at Marx”. I’ve read a great deal of Weber’s work and have never seen any contempt towards Marx. He doesn’t agree with Marx much and felt his antipathy towards religion colored his assessment of society. In his economic work Weber pointed out that Marx was unclear and muddled technology with economy in an attempt to frame his eschatological theories. To imply Weber has it over Marx without question is ridiculous. I am well aware that any defense of Marx in an age of klepto-Capitalist, “Free Market”, triumphalism only asks for brickbats. Some students of Weber became Marxists(Historical Materialism)– Georg Lukacs, Ernst Bloch et al. Laughter can be an excellent critical tool. Aristophanes is a prime example. Marx and Weber weren’t above employing humor in their polemics.
I live in South Florida. Existence without air conditioning would be cruel and unusual punishment. I am thankful Marc didn’t list Florida in his ban.(sigh)
@Tao, thank you for the response. I always look forward to your comments. No matter the issue you are well informed, thoughtful and just.
@ Sir David – I’m not talking about “making millions”… that’s an economist’s view of success, not a scientist’s. I’m saying he was still given a forum to present his ideas and not silenced, despite his ideas going against practically everyone else.
A better example then: Stanley Prusiner, who claimed in the 80s to have found an infectious agent which had no DNA or RNA! Though this idea was highly controversial and went against everything that was known and believed, it was published in Science, and eventually earned him the Nobel prize as the discover of prions – the cause of Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease.
Though scientists may still be only human, there is in fact incentive to explore ideas away from the consensus.
That’s why I say we must destroy the Aemerican Dream. Marc Authier
My American Dream is a decentralized, free nation where people pretty much mind their own business. However, the Fed and IRS pretty much stand in the way of that dream.
@OP – while you very clearly have a good eye for beauty, how, my dear, am I supposed to trust your evaluation of a scientist when you repeatedly mistake me for one? so, if you can’t even accurately identify a scientist, why should we expect that you can evaluate one?
@Tao
Thorstein Veblen’s “Theory of the Leisure Class” is wonderful. If I were “Philosopher King”(canned laughter) it would be made required reading. The section devoted to “vestiges of barbarism” is hilarious. His analysis of conspicuous consumption exhibited in the opulence of places of religious worship is something else.
I do not have the same admiration for his later, more Technocratic, works.
Stacy,
Again, if you believe in the theory of anthropogenic global warming, please tell me why:
* It’s been hotter than it is now for millions of years.
* Ice caps are melting on Mars.
* How a gas at 385 ppm, of which only 4% is man-made, and which absorbs only ~5% of long wave radiation (the kind that is reflected off the earth for the Greenhouse effect), supports idea that ‘global warming’ is man-made? …Again, man’s activity (which didn’t just start in the 2000′s) is responsible for only 4% of 5% of total long wave radiation absorbed. Water vapor absorbs about 90%, and 99% of that is naturally occurring!
Good luck!
OP – from that link on sunspot activity/Russia heatwave – its rubbish Ive watched the sunspot activity for over two every day – its been very low . Today – no sunspots !
http://solarcycle24.com/
Correction – that’s ‘over two years’
@ Josh & Stacy
The entire issue seems to be one of diversion and division. Don’t look up – just watch the ball. We can’t have the Wizard unveiled, now can we.
Let’s see … which Protocol was that now? …
Larry
(the “Club of Rome” is a globalist think tank.)
Here’s an excerpt from their own book “The First Global Revolution”
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
- Club of Rome
@Sir David,
The modern libertarian movement as manufactured by Friedman, Hayek, Rothbard and Mises is absolutely 100% corporatist. Do you wanna know how I know this? One piece of evidence is the fact that they helped found the Cato Institute and other think tanks to create propaganda that rings your liberty bell, which causes you to reflexively put on your freedom shackles like Pavlov’s serf. Modern libertarianism–aka neoliberalism– is actually neofeudalism, and the vast majority of libertarian followers are the first serfs. All that pretty talk about “free market,” “liberty” and “freedom” at places like Mises.org is intended to con people to shun their governments so the corporations and banks have unbridled access and control of governments to ensure that the little people will have no say in their own lives.
I don’t know where you get your conceptions of liberty and the free market, but if you got them from books by Friedman or Hayek or at places like mises.org, you’re one of Pavlov’s serfs.
If you are one of Pavlov’s serfs, and you are rejecting the Cato Institute, you are really rejecting your conception of the free market and liberty without knowing it.
@Tao,
I am disappointed with the Misesians. First they seem to be mostly closet goldbugs and second they are not in favor of bailing out the population. So, in my eyes they fail in terms of liberty and justice.
The sun having a high activity of solar flares this decade is not a result of CO2 levels on earth. The sun doesn’t give a dam. CO2 levels were considerably higher in the dinosaur era, and they got along just fine for millions of years; the plants were just more lush and green. I’m sorry if I sound elementary here but I’m talking to liberals who can’t seem to understand that the Carbon Tax indulgence-selling scheme is a creature of the IMF.
And isn’t CNN funded by big oil too? Wasn’t CNN the mouthpiece of the defense industry? Brought up by General Electric? Is anyone upset that the issue is being ignored that we having a record level of solar flares on the sun, and that can increase temperatures of ALL the planets?????????????
Lib”s don’t seem to care about those peculiar little facts. But as the Salem Witch-hunters stood with GOD on their quest, the Carbonwitch-hunting lib-tards stand with the EARTH!!
And when Max makes fun of the Tea Baggers as Oil-Nazi Palen-followers, remember he was an Obama backer when he needed to appease Baldwin during the Oracle-era. Then flipped on his Obama support. He was also an inflationist, who flipped over to the deflationist camp. Could he flip on the CO2 issue as well? I hope so because I love the guy, and there’s a lot of stinky stuff going on with the global-warming priesthood.