Two statements here, could you connect them, please? :
(1) However, based on economics, I predict a free market would pick thorium.
(2) A monopoly because they all use thorium? That does not follow. Power companies now are in completion with each other in certain areas. I don’t see why that would change.
F. Beard
@Mark Lytle,
The way I see it, with our current banking and money system, the system must either move on to a one world currency and one world government or it must radically decentralize. If the former then the End (666) is near, if the later then we might put it off and have a golden age of sorts. These are interesting times.
F. Beard
Two statements here, could you connect them, please? : Mark Lytle
Consider the trucking industry; they all use diesel yet they are not a monopoly since there are competing companies and even individual truck owners/operators.
So I could be a competitor in the thorium space, have my own power plant? Like a small one I could afford in my garage, like an independent trucker?
F. Beard
The Death Of Cash? All Over The World Governments Are Banning Large Cash Transactions Mirror^2
Hey IRS, are you proud of the fact you are helping to bring on “666″? Hey busybody drug warriors, are you happy too? And let’s not forget the MIC whose business is to create profitable enemies (“terrorists”).
The bad news is my country is being destroyed. The good news is that I see it deserves it more and more.
I would add that in the oil business it’s possible in places like Pennsylvania, where I grew up, because oil is close to the surface in some areas, you could drill your own (small) oil well. Something like your example. However, prices paid for your product is governed by the ‘big boys’.
The best technical solution is not a priori, necessarily, the best economic/social/political solution
F. Beard
If you end up with an ‘Oligarchy’ in the Thorium space, it’s not much better than a monopoly really. Mark Lytle
While I believe in principled solutions, I would not object to more pragmatic solutions to break up abusive monopolies. And though the concept of breaking up “too big to fail” corporations sounds crude and unprincipled to me, there is wisdom in diversification.
“While I believe in principled solutions, I would not object to more pragmatic solutions to break up abusive monopolies. And though the concept of breaking up “too big to fail” corporations sounds crude and unprincipled to me, there is wisdom in diversification.”
True enough.
But right now, we have anti-trust laws aplenty, and they are totally ignored. Once combinations of Monopolies and Oligarchies have taken over your political/legal system (and they have) you can forget about anti-trust.
This is exactly where we are. Oligarchies controlling everything and stifling the whole political system in order to raid it, free of legal constraints..
F. Beard
The best technical solution is not a priori, necessarily, the best economic/social/political solution Mark Lytle
Well, that’s a political decision. I think like all political decisions it should be made at the lowest practical level.
“Well, that’s a political decision. I think like all political decisions it should be made at the lowest practical level.”
What’s that? If you mean a ‘free market’ that creates another oligarchy, then the current system is O.K.
The dirty secret is that neither socialism nor capitalism, long term delivers the goods of a distributed political power system, favorable to republican democracy. Both systems concentrate power and create feudalism.
F. Beard
Conspiracy of thieves…. Mark Lytle
Yep, the counterfeiting cartel and their borrowers:
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” attributed to Thomas Jefferson from http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_%28Quotation%29
But they risk this:
“… now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:7-9 (New American Standard Bible)
F. Beard
The dirty secret is that neither socialism nor capitalism, long term delivers the goods of a distributed political power system, favorable to republican democracy. Mark Lytle
Both socialism and capitalism depend on a government enforced monopoly money supply. My belief is that this is the key to tyranny. There are ways to do money that do not require borrowing-lending, that share wealth rather than loot it, that are decentralized rather than centralized. With computers and modern communications they should be practical if only the law allowed.
Both socialism and capitalism depend on a government enforced monopoly money supply. My belief is that this is the key to tyranny. There are ways to do money that do not require borrowing-lending, that share wealth rather than loot it, that are decentralized rather than centralized. With computers and modern communications they should be practical if only the law allowed.
Sorry, no.
You had no central banks in the middle ages.
Feudalism does not require central banks.
It is a form of social organization that’s been around since the beginning of time.
Also, as a former IT guy, I have to say the final impact of computers and microchips has not been decided. It generally seems to favor the elites, because of their hunger for control. Only a small percent of the ‘masses’ use it for anything more than necessary business, or entertainment.
F. Beard
Feudalism does not require central banks.
It is a form of social organization that’s been around since the beginning of time. Mark Lytle
Israel had a system of government that required return of family lands every 50 years and debt forgiveness every 7 years. Thus it prevented permanent wealth and power centralization. Frankly, I think the US needs such a reset particularly since the very wealthy have very likely gotten that way due to government priviledge.
Again, where I grew up. in Pennsylvania, for many decades the coal industry practiced a foul form of feudalism with it’s employees. The essence of it was captured in a song by the late Tennessee Ernie Ford. The song is called 16 tons’.
Some people say a man is made out of mud well a poor man’s made outta
muscle and blood..Muscle and blood and skin and bone..and a mind
that’s weak..but a back thats strong.
[2vs]
And he was born one morning when the sun didn’t shine..
He picked up his shovel and he went to the mines
He loaded 16 tons of that number 9 coal..Til-
the Straw boss said Well-uh b-less my soul!
[CHR]
You load 16 tons and whaddaya get??
another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don’tcha call me ‘Cause-
I can’t go…I owe my soul to the Company
Store
[3vs]
He was born one morning it was drizzlin’ rain
fightin’and trouble are his middle name
He was raised in a cave,bred by an old mama lion
ain’t no high tone woman makes him walk the line
[4vs]
So if you see him coming..you better step aside,-
Alot of men didn’t and alot of men died.
He’s got one fist of iron, and the other of
steel..And if the right one doesn’t get you..
Then the left one will…
[CHR]
“Israel had a system of government that required return of family lands every 50 years and debt forgiveness every 7 years. Thus it prevented permanent wealth and power centralization. Frankly, I think the US needs such a reset particularly since the very wealthy have very likely gotten that way due to government priviledge.”
Well, that’s fine. Good luck telling our current feudal lords that they need to do this. Our handlers..er.. leaders may not want to go along with it…
!6 tons by Ford. You can understand the lyrics better and some of Ford’s family were Coal miners…
The Platters version is a little stylised I think..Hollywood coaches don’t sound like Appalachian coal miners..
F. Beard
Good luck telling our current feudal lords that they need to do this. Our handlers..er.. leaders may not want to go along with it… Mark Lytle
Well, one day those folks may upset someone with a good prayer connection to the Lord and … Truthfully, it does not seem like we are far from the End anyway.
Well taste is personal, But listening to the Platter’s version, they slur the word ‘coal’ and a few others. Sounds like ‘cool’ or something..
I kind of object to that, Someone unfamiliar may not understand it.
The platters were good in their genre. but they didn’t do well with this.
from Wikipedia:
“Sixteen Tons”
Sixteen Tons album cover
Ford scored an unexpected hit on the pop charts in 1955 with his rendition of Merle Travis’ “Sixteen Tons”, a sparsely arranged coal-miner’s lament that Travis wrote in 1946, based on his own family’s experience in the mines of Muhlenberg County, Kentucky. Its fatalistic tone contrasted vividly with the sugary pop ballads and the rock and roll just starting to dominate the charts at the time:
You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don’t you call me, ’cause I can’t go;
I owe my soul to the company store…
With a unique clarinet-driven pop arrangement by Ford’s musical director, Jack Fascinato, “Sixteen Tons” spent ten weeks at number one on the country charts and eight weeks at number one on the pop charts, and made Ford a crossover star. It became Ford’s ‘signature song’.
F. Beard
@Mark,
The slurring adds to the lethal quality. Tennessee Ernie’s sounds like a lark in comparison. One thing one can be sure of, whites may have suffered in the US but blacks almost surely did.
But this is about Coal mining. The Blacks have their own songs…plantations and all that, this is not theirs…
Those that want to see it though the eyes of those that LIVED it and I mean the Coal-Steel culture of the early 20th century, those who were THERE, as I was, will know what I’m talking about..
We lived in Fly ash. When my parents put out dishes to set the dinner table, within minutes there was a film of fly ash on them, if the windows were open. Your teeth would register this as you ate. Felt like fine sand in the food..
F. Beard
@mark,
Strange, my father worked in a Pennsylvania coal mine starting at age 16.
Ford’s version is the one the people who lived this life understood. If you want the Platters version, you’re welcome to it. But the real people who lived and died in the mines would never have listened to the Platters version. It was alien..
Just went to Wikipedia page for Platters . Searched for 16 tons. No mention. Was an also ran.
frances snoot
@Youri:
But the worst element of this system is that the extraordinary power given to regulators–and particularly the Federal Reserve–is likely to change the nature of the U.S. financial system. Where financial firms once focused on beating their competitors, they will now focus on currying favor with their regulator, which will have the power to control their every move. What may ultimately emerge is a partnership between the largest financial firms and the Federal Reserve–a partnership in which the Fed protects them from failure and excessive competition and they in turn curb their competitive instincts to carry out the government’s policies and directions. In addition, with the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the act abandons a fundamental principle of the U.S. Constitution, in which Congress retains the power to control the agencies of the executive branch. These wholesale changes in traditional relationships are hard to explain except as the triumph of a fundamentally different view–a corporatist political model more characteristic of Europe–of the government’s role in the U.S. economy.
Key points in this Outlook:
•The Dodd-Frank Act gives the Federal Reserve, under light supervision by a council of regulators, unprecedented control over the largest firms in the U.S. financial system.
•The result may be a public-private partnership, in which the Fed protects the largest firms from excessive competition and failure and they in turn follow the government’s directions.
@Beard
Two statements here, could you connect them, please? :
(1) However, based on economics, I predict a free market would pick thorium.
(2) A monopoly because they all use thorium? That does not follow. Power companies now are in completion with each other in certain areas. I don’t see why that would change.
@Mark Lytle,
The way I see it, with our current banking and money system, the system must either move on to a one world currency and one world government or it must radically decentralize. If the former then the End (666) is near, if the later then we might put it off and have a golden age of sorts. These are interesting times.
Two statements here, could you connect them, please? : Mark Lytle
Consider the trucking industry; they all use diesel yet they are not a monopoly since there are competing companies and even individual truck owners/operators.
@Beard
Yes, the bankings system are is at a point where the decision you are talking about must be made.
@Beard
So I could be a competitor in the thorium space, have my own power plant? Like a small one I could afford in my garage, like an independent trucker?
The Death Of Cash? All Over The World Governments Are Banning Large Cash Transactions Mirror^2
Hey IRS, are you proud of the fact you are helping to bring on “666″? Hey busybody drug warriors, are you happy too? And let’s not forget the MIC whose business is to create profitable enemies (“terrorists”).
The bad news is my country is being destroyed. The good news is that I see it deserves it more and more.
I would add that in the oil business it’s possible in places like Pennsylvania, where I grew up, because oil is close to the surface in some areas, you could drill your own (small) oil well. Something like your example. However, prices paid for your product is governed by the ‘big boys’.
If you end up with an ‘Oligarchy’ in the Thorium space, it’s not much better than a monopoly really. This would surely happen.
The best technical solution is not a priori, necessarily, the best economic/social/political solution
If you end up with an ‘Oligarchy’ in the Thorium space, it’s not much better than a monopoly really. Mark Lytle
While I believe in principled solutions, I would not object to more pragmatic solutions to break up abusive monopolies. And though the concept of breaking up “too big to fail” corporations sounds crude and unprincipled to me, there is wisdom in diversification.
@ Beard
“While I believe in principled solutions, I would not object to more pragmatic solutions to break up abusive monopolies. And though the concept of breaking up “too big to fail” corporations sounds crude and unprincipled to me, there is wisdom in diversification.”
True enough.
But right now, we have anti-trust laws aplenty, and they are totally ignored. Once combinations of Monopolies and Oligarchies have taken over your political/legal system (and they have) you can forget about anti-trust.
This is exactly where we are. Oligarchies controlling everything and stifling the whole political system in order to raid it, free of legal constraints..
The best technical solution is not a priori, necessarily, the best economic/social/political solution Mark Lytle
Well, that’s a political decision. I think like all political decisions it should be made at the lowest practical level.
A thorium Oligarchy will just join the other “big boys” in Pharma, Food, Banking, Oil, with no real opposition..
Well, maybe oil won’t like it, but if they try anti-trust and awaken it, it may be used against them, too.
Conspiracy of thieves….
@Beard
“Well, that’s a political decision. I think like all political decisions it should be made at the lowest practical level.”
What’s that? If you mean a ‘free market’ that creates another oligarchy, then the current system is O.K.
The dirty secret is that neither socialism nor capitalism, long term delivers the goods of a distributed political power system, favorable to republican democracy. Both systems concentrate power and create feudalism.
Conspiracy of thieves…. Mark Lytle
Yep, the counterfeiting cartel and their borrowers:
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” attributed to Thomas Jefferson from http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_%28Quotation%29
But they risk this:
“… now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:7-9 (New American Standard Bible)
The dirty secret is that neither socialism nor capitalism, long term delivers the goods of a distributed political power system, favorable to republican democracy. Mark Lytle
Both socialism and capitalism depend on a government enforced monopoly money supply. My belief is that this is the key to tyranny. There are ways to do money that do not require borrowing-lending, that share wealth rather than loot it, that are decentralized rather than centralized. With computers and modern communications they should be practical if only the law allowed.
@Beard
Both socialism and capitalism depend on a government enforced monopoly money supply. My belief is that this is the key to tyranny. There are ways to do money that do not require borrowing-lending, that share wealth rather than loot it, that are decentralized rather than centralized. With computers and modern communications they should be practical if only the law allowed.
Sorry, no.
You had no central banks in the middle ages.
Feudalism does not require central banks.
It is a form of social organization that’s been around since the beginning of time.
Also, as a former IT guy, I have to say the final impact of computers and microchips has not been decided. It generally seems to favor the elites, because of their hunger for control. Only a small percent of the ‘masses’ use it for anything more than necessary business, or entertainment.
Feudalism does not require central banks.
It is a form of social organization that’s been around since the beginning of time. Mark Lytle
Israel had a system of government that required return of family lands every 50 years and debt forgiveness every 7 years. Thus it prevented permanent wealth and power centralization. Frankly, I think the US needs such a reset particularly since the very wealthy have very likely gotten that way due to government priviledge.
Again, where I grew up. in Pennsylvania, for many decades the coal industry practiced a foul form of feudalism with it’s employees. The essence of it was captured in a song by the late Tennessee Ernie Ford. The song is called 16 tons’.
Some people say a man is made out of mud well a poor man’s made outta
muscle and blood..Muscle and blood and skin and bone..and a mind
that’s weak..but a back thats strong.
[2vs]
And he was born one morning when the sun didn’t shine..
He picked up his shovel and he went to the mines
He loaded 16 tons of that number 9 coal..Til-
the Straw boss said Well-uh b-less my soul!
[CHR]
You load 16 tons and whaddaya get??
another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don’tcha call me ‘Cause-
I can’t go…I owe my soul to the Company
Store
[3vs]
He was born one morning it was drizzlin’ rain
fightin’and trouble are his middle name
He was raised in a cave,bred by an old mama lion
ain’t no high tone woman makes him walk the line
[4vs]
So if you see him coming..you better step aside,-
Alot of men didn’t and alot of men died.
He’s got one fist of iron, and the other of
steel..And if the right one doesn’t get you..
Then the left one will…
[CHR]
The company store was key here.
No real money ever changed hands, just credits…
@Stacy
I wonder if you could put up a Youtube of ’16 tons’, a lot of the younger people here probably are unfamiliar with that stage of Americas history.
I think it’s very relavent to the whole debate about where the world is going…
Truthfully, you don’t even need banks, let alone central banks to create a feudal state.
16 tons – Platters
@Beard
“Israel had a system of government that required return of family lands every 50 years and debt forgiveness every 7 years. Thus it prevented permanent wealth and power centralization. Frankly, I think the US needs such a reset particularly since the very wealthy have very likely gotten that way due to government priviledge.”
Well, that’s fine. Good luck telling our current feudal lords that they need to do this. Our handlers..er.. leaders may not want to go along with it…
This is where the abstract meets the concrete.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU&feature=related
!6 tons by Ford. You can understand the lyrics better and some of Ford’s family were Coal miners…
The Platters version is a little stylised I think..Hollywood coaches don’t sound like Appalachian coal miners..
Good luck telling our current feudal lords that they need to do this. Our handlers..er.. leaders may not want to go along with it… Mark Lytle
Well, one day those folks may upset someone with a good prayer connection to the Lord and … Truthfully, it does not seem like we are far from the End anyway.
I grew up in the Appalachians and everybody there was into Ford’s version. The one posted is from 1956..
I prefer the Platter’s version; that guy sounds lethal.
@Beard
Well taste is personal, But listening to the Platter’s version, they slur the word ‘coal’ and a few others. Sounds like ‘cool’ or something..
I kind of object to that, Someone unfamiliar may not understand it.
The platters were good in their genre. but they didn’t do well with this.
from Wikipedia:
“Sixteen Tons”
Sixteen Tons album cover
Ford scored an unexpected hit on the pop charts in 1955 with his rendition of Merle Travis’ “Sixteen Tons”, a sparsely arranged coal-miner’s lament that Travis wrote in 1946, based on his own family’s experience in the mines of Muhlenberg County, Kentucky. Its fatalistic tone contrasted vividly with the sugary pop ballads and the rock and roll just starting to dominate the charts at the time:
You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don’t you call me, ’cause I can’t go;
I owe my soul to the company store…
With a unique clarinet-driven pop arrangement by Ford’s musical director, Jack Fascinato, “Sixteen Tons” spent ten weeks at number one on the country charts and eight weeks at number one on the pop charts, and made Ford a crossover star. It became Ford’s ‘signature song’.
@Mark,
The slurring adds to the lethal quality. Tennessee Ernie’s sounds like a lark in comparison. One thing one can be sure of, whites may have suffered in the US but blacks almost surely did.
@Beard
But this is about Coal mining. The Blacks have their own songs…plantations and all that, this is not theirs…
Those that want to see it though the eyes of those that LIVED it and I mean the Coal-Steel culture of the early 20th century, those who were THERE, as I was, will know what I’m talking about..
We lived in Fly ash. When my parents put out dishes to set the dinner table, within minutes there was a film of fly ash on them, if the windows were open. Your teeth would register this as you ate. Felt like fine sand in the food..
@mark,
Strange, my father worked in a Pennsylvania coal mine starting at age 16.
Ford’s version is the one the people who lived this life understood. If you want the Platters version, you’re welcome to it. But the real people who lived and died in the mines would never have listened to the Platters version. It was alien..
Just went to Wikipedia page for Platters . Searched for 16 tons. No mention. Was an also ran.
@Youri:
But the worst element of this system is that the extraordinary power given to regulators–and particularly the Federal Reserve–is likely to change the nature of the U.S. financial system. Where financial firms once focused on beating their competitors, they will now focus on currying favor with their regulator, which will have the power to control their every move. What may ultimately emerge is a partnership between the largest financial firms and the Federal Reserve–a partnership in which the Fed protects them from failure and excessive competition and they in turn curb their competitive instincts to carry out the government’s policies and directions. In addition, with the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the act abandons a fundamental principle of the U.S. Constitution, in which Congress retains the power to control the agencies of the executive branch. These wholesale changes in traditional relationships are hard to explain except as the triumph of a fundamentally different view–a corporatist political model more characteristic of Europe–of the government’s role in the U.S. economy.
Key points in this Outlook:
•The Dodd-Frank Act gives the Federal Reserve, under light supervision by a council of regulators, unprecedented control over the largest firms in the U.S. financial system.
•The result may be a public-private partnership, in which the Fed protects the largest firms from excessive competition and failure and they in turn follow the government’s directions.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703369704575461714115902100.html
No wonder Bernanke is waxing sanguine.
@Stacy
Love your introductory phrase: “cartoon super powers”.