Stacy Summary: We look at the year of records, from the record collapse in US house sales to new record temperatures, to a record year for payouts and to zombies. In the second half of the show, Max talks to Kate Sheppard, an environmental journalist at Mother Jones, about the ongoing crisis in the Gulf of Mexico and about the proliferation of corporate front groups.
**UPDATE**: In related news, this climate change debate between Sir David King and Lord Lawson and hosted by the CBI (the main UK business lobby) ought to be fantastic. This is what is needed, a real scientist, who also has an understanding of economics; and the former Chancellor of the Exchequer, not a clown like Lord Monckton.
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THE world’s leading climate change body has been accused of losing credibility after a damning report into its research practices.
A high-level inquiry into the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found there was “little evidence” for its claims about global warming.
It also said the panel had emphasised the negative impacts of climate change and made “substantive findings” based on little proof
SIlver spike and a crucifix Max. Day light and sun too Max.
@Max,
It is a WOODEN stake not a silver one. The Lone Ranger used silver bullets since silver has very good antiseptic properties. But I do admit we have vampires and zombies. The vampires are of course the banks and the zombies are their victims.
Spain’s Unemployment Continues To Rise
by Edward Hugh
http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/spains-unemployment-continues-to-rise/
Charts say it all .
#1 – Spain’s EU harmonised seasonally-adjusted unemployment rate
#2 – those paying insurance contributions from the Labour Ministry
WOW! Gold and silver seriously fighting off the gravity of manipulation today. Those cork’s are trying to bob up out the water………….peak fat finger?
I do look forward to winter so Max and Stacy can give their anti-CO2 campaign a rest.
“Climate change”?! Yes, the wealthy do prefer the status quo. However there is much misery on Earth to be alleviated. That requires CHANGE. A warmer planet is much to be preferred over a colder one though personally I prefer cold.
@F Beard
Right. The silver is to kill the wherewolves in London and New-York. Killing JP Morgan would help the environnement by squeezing the bastads to death on their silver shorts would help. Buy physical silver this MORNING. Bought me a 50 oz this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRu8N2K0NY
Being “told” to stick to science,…aarrhhh,..little children !
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE67T3H320100830
Watching! =)
The rising tide will wash away all the MMCCGW deniers.
We are disabusing many of their ill-informed opinions.
The climate debt deadbeat minority is getting smaller every day.
Facts trump climate debt deadbeat propaganda.
@Marc,
The Werewolves of London = the finance industry in London?
Gold and silver are getting killed!
the economy is a subset of the ecology
if you don’t understand eco-systems you don’t understand economics
take another look at Adam Smith
he uses the ecosystem analogy extensively
those who try to separate the two are MMGWCC denying debt deadbeats or just coprophagists out for a laugh (with Divine and her dog).
Canadians journalist discover the canadian real estate bubble. Wow ! Canadian journalists are bozzos. Suddenly they are surprised. Yes Virginia there is canadian real estate bubble and it’s about to explode in your face. Don’t know where the official media was ? Probably sleeping and convincing Canadians that Canada was different.
http://finances.ca.msn.com/actualites/rc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=25405886
Be silent all you deniers,..the great Czar has spoken ! The day of judgment is upon us,…..LOL hahaha,…
We’ll be building you a church very soon,. no doubt mAxy pooh’s ,….
When are you going to send out all your minions to cleanse the earth,..can’t wait! : )
if you don’t understand eco-systems you don’t understand economics
To perfect that, which was left imperfect,….
@F Beard
I never listened to the lyrics. It seems soo !
http://finances.ca.msn.com/actualites/rc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=25405886
Absolutely. There is even the name of Cheney in the song. Very funny ! Listen again at the end. A funny coincidence.
the clown knows what he is talking about mr whiny brainiac
@F Beard
There is even of the wherewolfes that ressembles to Tony Blair and another one to Bloomberg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRu8N2K0NY
Look carefully. One looks a lot to Kenny Boy. And another one to Obama and Bush.
The drawings are quite nice. Love internet for these strange coincidences.
hey Guys,
I don’t know where you are going with this global warming deal but can you also report the record low temperatures in South America and southern hemisphere? The trend here seems to be more extremes in temperature range so lets wait till the beginning of next summer until making any conclusions. We may have a record low in Winter temperatures.
Climate change is an undeniable fact; personally, not being versed in climate science, I believe that our contribution is minimal. Either way, I think that at least some of you would feel comfortable with Enrico’s Fermi paradox:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
If you are convinced we are on the verge of self-destruction, you’ll feel at home on this page…
the needle of my naughty-ness reader is twanging with tension right now, red-lining almost!! the producers know the southern hemisphere has just undergone its coldest spell for 100 years, whilst the north the hottest, this was predicted and due to the positions of the Sun, Moon, Earth-how bout that crazzy bearded Indian running around the UN in his green tie! LOL – is it just me or is Stacy getting hotter?
@Tamir,
SETI has heard nothing because there is nothing to hear. The Earth is thus unique as the Bible implies. Go science! Go SETI! Keep listening, the silence is very revealing.
pps – so the US is LITERALLY the LARGEST debtor nation in the HISTORY of HUMAN CIVILISATION, & yet you want them to have “climate-reparations” imposed upon them in addition!!??!?!!!!!!!!!!!
I could do a better job for Mother Jones by clicking on the Internet.
How about 4 million gallons a day if you count those fractures in the earth near the BP spill.
How about 40 million gallons of Corexit if you count the dispersants dumped at night by contractors.
How about pointing out all of those fish dying as far north as Maine. Even the seagulls refused to eat the fish. They must know more than the reporters and their lame excuses about hot water off the coast of New England.
How about those reports of arsenic coming from the oil spill but the EPA and the FDA refusing to test for arsenic before declaring the sea food safe to eat.
How about Obama issuing a fake photo of him and his daughter swimming in the Gulf? And where did that fish he ate come from Norway?
And the Mainstream media wonders why their number of viewers and readers is plummeting and the age of TV viewers in America has risen to 50.
Advertisers pay less for older TV viewers because older viewers buy brands by habit and are unlikely to change.
@F. Beard,
You hold the absolute weapon!
PPPSPPPPPS:
@Stacy-don’t “laugh” @ Max in EVERY episode in the same indifferent, interspersed way if you want to really challenge MB, the Godfather in terms of primary skills
It will be cooler in Topeka:
Cooler times ahead: indicators show deepening La Niña
Stacey – you call Lord Monckton a clown, but if it wasn’t for him, the world would have been blissfully ignorant about the NWO pact the key players were going to sign at Copenhagen. You are being wantonly spiteful towards a decent and honorable man, so spite is what you get in return from all of those who know better. Don’t be so offensive and arrogant. Show some respect. You make your bed, you lie in it.
You hold the absolute weapon! Tamir
Truth is the absolute weapon and it will out.
Why doesn’t Max debate Alex Jones on climate change? Is it because Jones has the documentation from many years ago stating that the PTB would create a false environmental issue to install a global tax(carbon credits) paid directly to the banks? Or maybe that climate change is happening throughout our solar system and I would doubt that a soccer mom headed to the store could have caused that. Climate change is and has always occurred….but who benifits from making humans the scapegoat….oh ya the bankers, control freaks and environmental nazis. There are real environmental issues that are being ignored, like polution, genetic engineered foods, uranium tipped ammo in the U.S. arsenal…etc. And who owns the oil companies anyway…you will find the biggest oil companies behind the carbon taxes, cause their owners have dictated it so.
@Michael Goyer …. There are real environmental issues that are being ignored, like pollution, genetic engineered foods, uranium tipped ammo in the U.S. arsenal…etc. And who owns the oil companies anyway…you will find the biggest oil companies behind the carbon taxes, cause their owners have dictated it so….
Absolutely 100% correct IMO !
Well said.
yes the enviroment is interconnected with so much of our lives .like them symbiotic relationships ,the sun the moon our mother (earth) .i remember the simbolism shared when lookin at the golden gate bridge a goodness in our abilities .now channeled into dirty smokestacks while deplated urainium fired years ago still kill in half lifes ..anyhow we have disrespected the earth and this can be fixed now no debate ..like bringing home all soldiers make war illegal punishable by death ,,and whats with all the zombies ?
Steve Keen’s article is a must read.
Bernanke’s blind spot
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Bernankes-blind-spot-pd20100830-8T8HE?OpenDocument&src=sph
Steve Keen and Michael Hudson are two of my favorite economists. Max liked them both judging by his interviews.
This article points out the need for a debt free money.
“you will find the biggest oil companies behind the carbon taxes, cause their owners have dictated it so….”
So, Stacy and mAx are either willfully ignorant of said “fact”,…or they are useful idiots,….which one is it to be?
Or,..are there other options,..could there be more than two sides of a coin,..is it possible,..tune in next week, for an update,…; )
Max and Stacy magic.
Gold almost at 1250 $. Next target 1300 $
Hey where is Mikie from JP Morgan ?
Prof. William Black :
Why Covering up Fraud Losses Impairs Economic Recovery. Part One.
Part One: The Unbearable Lightness of the Accounting Cover Up
Bad bankers, bad regulators, and bad politicians love to cover up losses, fraud, and bank failures. The snake oil peddlers pushing for a cover up scream that if losses are recognized capitalism will collapse. Recognizing losses “causes” bank failures (ponder that “logic”). Bank failures cause other banks to fail. Selling bad assets of failed banks is invariably described as a “fire sale” that causes further falls in asset values, which causes more banks to fail, which causes more assets to be sold, which causes – the end of life as we know it. If the snake oil guys are correct then financial markets aren’t fragile, they’re friable – a few bank failures away from crumbling. The solution under this logic is to lie about asset values and pretend that insolvent banks are healthy.
…
…
…
http://www.benzinga.com/life/politics/10/08/447366/why-covering-up-fraud-losses-impairs-economic-recovery-part-one
I blew his head off last nite!
Mike
Your report seems to lack, among other facts, the ‘record cold’ news in South America (contains many countries), with thousands of aquatic and terrestrial fish and animals dying and indigenous Indians losing their babies from extreme cold.
You guys are hysterical with your ‘man made’ global warming reporting.
“cost of inaction”?? STRUCTURE A CARBON MARKET?? based on what? UNANSWERED QUESTIONS? fraud science? WE HAVE NO SUBSTANTIATED SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.
Is it ‘man made’< isn't this the big bottom line $ and control question? IS there global warming at all is still a question.
Sandra Bullock, you say, is serving a "dual role as scientist and actress", you apparently seem to be doing something similar? You discount many esteemed, veteran scientists that question the validity of 'man made' along with global warming, why do you think the left came up with 'climate change'? What are your credentials to do this? Shouldn't scientists first settle this? it is far from settled science. "Consenses' is far from settled science.
It confuses me that your so bent on removing the wealth of world citizens based on something that has more questions and exposed fraud than there is substantiated science.
"….who fail to see the big picture, like we do on this show"? I think you failed to include an entire continent as it relates to your global warming hysterics.
I fairness I love your reporting on things you do know about.
Futuristic Gulf oil spill story from 1903:
http://gustavmeyrinkpetroleumpetroleum.blogspot.com/
The denier propagandists are so genius, they are total masters. You can see their genius in the comments, look how many people mention Ken Lay and Enron. Pretty interesting that they use Enron as such a boogey man when lo and behold, who is the head of Americans for Prosperity, the best funded of the Koch denying outfits? Well, my god, it’s the very same Tim Phillips who operated hit campaigns for Enron: http://www.desmogblog.com/tim-phillips
These guys are masters.
Roll-up! Roll-up! Buy the latest snazzy snake-oil from Max and Stacey. Record temperatures since records began! Way way back. Possibly as far back as a hundred years. Wow! Now let me see hmmmm. what percentage is that of 4.5 billion years? Obviously Max is “shorting” Man-Made Global Warming and trying to get as many investors as suckers on the other side of the bet.
Yeah, Real scientist FAKING THE DATA
Son of Climategate! Scientist says feds manipulated data Reporting points in coldest regions simply eliminated by U.S. agencies http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=122109
The IPCC consensus on climate change was phoney, says IPCC insider http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/13/the-ipcc-consensus-on-climate-change-was-phoney-says-ipcc-insider/
Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995, 14 February 2010, by Jonathan Petre (MailOnline) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html
Climategate goes American: NOAA, GISS and the mystery of the vanishing weather stations 16 January 2010 (Telegraph.UK) http://tinyurl.com/yjdc9ny
Censoring The Decrease in Global Temperatures http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLvu_4
Yes indeedy – CO2 Contributed by Human Activity: 12 to 15ppmv / version 1 Vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLmLW4k4aI
„We are on the verge of a global transformation. ALL WE NEED IS THE RIGHT MAJOR CRISES.“ – DAVID ROCKEFELLER, Club of Rome executive manager
Founded in 1968 at the Rockefeller’s Italian Estate, the Club of Rome has played the leading role in propagating the falsehoods of climate change:
In 1991, the Club of Rome published The First Global Revolution, authored by Alexander King and Bertrand Schneider. On pp. 104-105 are found the following statement:
“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill… All these dangers are caused by human intervention…
THE REAL ENEMY, THEN, IS HUMANITY ITSELF.”
Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995 14 February 2010 (MailOnline) http://tinyurl.com/yb2loyt
World may not be warming, say scientists 14 February 2010 (TimesOnline) http://tinyurl.com/yaql22r
@Stacey and Max,
“The highest temps. on record since forever….” I didn’t realize that was how long they’ve been recording temps. there. Well, you’ve convinced me. If it’s the highest, since forever, it must be true.
When you say things like that, it puts you in the same boat as Glenn Beck (who you know is a clown). You start with some truths, and then try to insert your agenda/propoganda, just like Beck.
Climategate: The Mother of All Deceptions
CLIMATEGATE: A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/climategate.php
The Climate Change bubble has burst. Just look at the price of Carbon on the Chicago exchange if you don’t believe me. You’re like the US Govt with the housing market, desperately trying to pump it back up.
You were on a roll sticking it to the banks. CAGW is a dead duck. The momentum shifted in 2009 and nothing is going to shift it back.
Rise of sea levels is ‘the greatest lie ever told’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html
CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html
Based on the analysis of entrapped air from ice cores extracted from permanent glaciers from various regions around the globe, it has been demonstrated that global warming began 18,000 years ago, accompanied by a steady rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide. Humans are quite likely the cause of a large portion of the 80 ppm rise in CO2 since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, and from a distance, it looks possible that increasing CO2 may cause atmospheric temperatures rise. However, on closer examination it is seen that CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes– confirming that CO2 is not the primary driver of the temperature changes. http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/temp_vs_CO2.html
More recent data shows that in the opposite sense to IPCC predictions world temperatures have not risen and indeed have fallen over the past 10 years while CO2 levels have risen dramatically. Yours sincerely, Svend Hendriksen, Nobel Peace Prize 1988 (shared), Greenland, Hans Schreuder, Analytical Chemist, UK, Piers Corbyn, Astrophysicist, UK, Dr Don Parkes, Prof. Em. Human Ecology, Australia http://uddebatt.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/open-letter-to-ipcc-to-renounce-its-current-policy/
The Great Global Warming Swindle http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647#
CBC – Global Warming Doomsday Called Off http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&hl=en-GB
@Max
Any comments regarding weather manipulation?
Do you guys seriously believe the world is going to end if we pump a colourless odourless gas into the atmosphere which is used in the process of photosynthesis which is basically what allows us to live on this planet. It’s the plants you know. Plants like CO2. It’s like us with oxygen, the more we have the easier things are for us. The less there is, like at high altitudes the harder we find it. More CO2 = higher crop yields.
Plus it’s acknowledged that doubling the CO2 will only cause maybe 1 degree of temperature change. They say it will set off water vapour feedbacks which will cause the other few degrees but don’t specify exactly how this will work.
@Max & Stacy
SHOEMAKER, STICK TO YOUR LAST!
Dear Max and Stacy we loved you as you were. Bashing the financial con-men with your expert knowledge. Don’t ruin your credibility by opening a second-front with Man-Made Global Warming. You are turning your supporters off. Nobody likes the big oil and chemical lobbies but using lies to combat lies only weakens your hand. Stick with what you know.
@john smith
PILOT FILMS PLANE SPRAYING OVER CANADA;GREAT FOOTAGE ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZucED2kc8
Ultimately it’s just another “the world will end if you don’t give me all your money” scam.
This is how scammers scam the govt. They take something with a little bit of truth and blow it out of all proportion. War on Terror is a classical example. Blown out of all proportion yet the amount of people going along with it is just colossal. Why? Because they all benefit. Monetarily and otherwise.
War On Terror is the right’s major scam. CAGW is the left’s major scam. Both sides work the same way though and want to scam as much money as they can by scaring the people.
Oh btw Stacy, I think an enron man helped devise the carbon Trading scheme if I’m not mistaken. I think it’s someone you’re making a film about.
I think a guy from Goldman Sachs is Al Gore’s partner too.
I can also point to a few oil companies that are supporting CAGW as well if you want.
The sad thing to me about the Climate debate, is that renewables are just a generally good idea. Climate data has been and will be fudged in both directions, both up and down. It is so polarized now that nothing sensible can come out of it.
Like most things nowadays, the volume levels are high.
I still favor using Peak Oil as a motivational factor, because it’s clearer.
Also fewer toxins in the environment, unequivocal…
you are some gullible people I must say
virtually all of the climate ‘skeptics’ refer back to self serving groups and “scientists” sponsored by the Koch Brothers.
As harriet tubman said:
” I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves.”
we will work to carry as many slaves to freedom as we can
@Max
If C02 did not cause climate change..
Do you still believe in global redistribution of wealth?
Pearl S. Buck – The Good Earth
Worth a read.
Max ans Stacy. When are we going to see the product you are selling? Carbon credit scam?
Drawing inspired by Michael Hudson article: http://davemiller.org/drawings/austerity/the_economy_is_to_be_sacrificed.png
Well Max, all I can say is thanks for the financial education and putting me onto people like Ackerman and Denninger. It’s really been useful and I’ve gained a good understanding of how the system works but if you’re going to persist with this CAGW I think I’ll move on and leave you to it.
I really do appreciate all the fine work you did with the financial side and I genuinely have learnt from you guys.
Slave meme = “stick with what you know”
@Max & Stacy
We still love Ya cause buying into Rockefella Scam only shows your human and nobody is perfect.
China’s gold demand surges 26% in Q2: WGC, 26 August 2010, (China Daily – Asia One News) http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20100826-234057.html
Nice piece Stacy and Max.
Global warming is occuring (many more articles concerning hot weather than cool weather) but here’s an interesting weather oddity posted a couple days ago on the Drudge Report.
Cold empties Bolivian rivers of fish
http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100827/full/news.2010.437.html
This woman says ”you know’ every 10 words.
What is it with Americans and their incessant use of ”you know?”
I interrupted a guy once and said ”No, I don’t know” and got a blank stare.
@max
The problem is, the people are bombarded by warnings on all levels of their existence nowadays. A substantial part of those warnings are false, to market products or create political urgency, The American public is reality averse anyway, as Kunstler often points out. They overload quickly, and…this is the core of Zombieism, it’s a kind of burn-out. The Zombie is a hopeless creature and that hopelessness is driven by too much media manipulation. This contributes to his ever rising inertia.
My position is that you’re probably right, there is warming going on. But Climate models are filled with modeling errors. It’s damn near impossible to do it right because of the shear complexity of the problem, much worse than computer models of economic system, which also are not real accurate. So I concentrate, on things that are ‘unequivocal’.. This is how I sold ‘wind power’ last year…
@Mike – Go already!! Stop being such an emotional, hissy fitting slave and go find a master somewhere else. We’re not slaveowners here. The Kochs are and they have no problem with owning slaves. So if you want to be owned, go there (they indirectly operate many sites just check out Competitive Enterprise Institute, Cato, Junkscience.com or American Prosperity, they have loads of links for you to hear the same opinion you have). This is what I have always advised anyone who wishes to try to close discussion or debate. Your cut and paste facts have been investigated and found wanting. You’re welcome to keep posting them here though, maybe one day I might be convinced. But right now you haven’t convinced me. So go close your mind if you wish, slave and go pick some cotton for Koch.
Big @FT article on #Gold & GATA & interviews with Rogoff and @JamesGRickards http://bit.ly/a0CJIA. Gold is manipulated but not by #LTCM
Coldest Temperature On Record: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/YongLiLiang.shtml
The lowest temperature ever recorded at the surface of the Earth was −89.2 °C (−128.6 °F; 184 K) at the Russian Vostok Station in Antarctica July 21, 1983 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldest_temperature_recorded_on_Earth
@max
The main thing is, I see no percentage in scaring people to death. They are already scared to death on multiple levels. I try to be more positive, For all of the fraud going on with Glenn Beck, at least he understands that people want support, they can’t take being yelled at all the time that the end is coming..
Of course, I know the end is coming, but…that’s the psychology we’re dealing with…
I am not a Koch bot!!
It’s Witch-Hunt Season
“Where are the statements, from the former president or those in his inner circle, preaching tolerance and denouncing anti-Islam hysteria? On this issue, as on many others, the G.O.P. establishment is offering a nearly uniform profile in cowardice.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/30/opinion/30krugman.html?src=me&ref=general
There is undoubtedly some man made forcing of the climate but its far from fully understood in relation to natural forcing within the earth and externally. What is very clear and should be definitely acted upon is the poison we pump out as a result of oil .
What cant be denied is that we have had low sun spot activity yet high temperatures this year.
I’m wanted to hear more about Thorium any scientists out there please tell us more pros and cons.
I love the comment from the youtube page, “tyranny starts when people stop talking” . . . and notice the side of the debate that wishes to end all discussion? Who literally cannot hear one word that contradicts their evidently fragile world view? Like a robot that will short circuit if you overload it with contradictory orders.
There is a very clear connection between the ecology and the economy. It’s only been around for about 100 years, and it has vastly changed how we live and our relationship with the environment.
I’m talking about consumerism, and it can’t last.
Consumerism is to the ecology as ponzi finance is to the economy. Both are driven by the financialization of the real economy, and financialization requires perpetual profit growth. Unfortunately, in a world of scarcity, perpetual growth is impossible.
A hundred years ago, people bought things and used them until they wore out or broke. Today, we routinely replace things that are perfectly fine well before the end of their useful life. The end result is a continuing acceleration of the extraction of natural resources to meet the false (unnatural demand) created by consumerism. Indeed, there are a number of metals/elements that are important for manufacturing that are rapidly being depleted.
We really are in an unprecedented phase of human existence, one that is setting us up for a tragedy of the commons on a global scale. This tragedy will be the direct result of allowing industries to socialize the long term costs of their pursuit of short term gains. Corporations are essentially “borrowing” from the ecology to service the expectations of their shareholders of perpetual earnings growth, but we’re all going to be stuck with the debt.
The analogy between consumerism and ponzi finance is clear. Because we know how ponzi finance must end, we know how consumerism must end.
I’m with Flicks, what’s the skinny on Thorium.
@Max and @Stacy
A friend I’ve known since the ’70′s and I are having quite a row at the moment. His tale is that of the times we live in. I can’t convince him of Peak oil (and he’s a Geologist!) let alone Climate change. But he has a ‘special needs’ child, one main income and he’s 53 years old. He knows his income will drop in the not real distant future, age discrimination and all that, and he was at the Beck rally. I think this rally with Beck is major ‘weird’, but to him, it feels like hope. So he thinks I’m the nutcase for not supporting Beck. But his situation is approaching Zombie burnout levels.
I think in a microcosm, this example relates to all of these issues…
@stacyherbert
Remember last time I made a call about a warm summer when you were still complaining about the cold? I was right.
My gut feelin tells me we could get a swift overturn into the cold this winter.
In the Netherlands we had a very cold spring time which suddenly turned into very warm weather for quiet some while. Autumn now started surprisingly early the monday before when I made that call.
On the long Climate Scale we are in a warming period which scientist never have been able to explain*. Of cause there is climate change that has always been but has nothing to do with humans. Well you know my story on that.
* Listen to Paul A. LaViolette on Red Ice Radio PT4 from 6:40min http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG7J9iA_0SI
Max
You LOST, FACT…
Alex Jones lead us to victory!
Ha Ha Ha
Mike
It’s the sun, the sun, the sun. Shhh!! No no. It’s man, damn it. Establish your conviction and work backwards!!
@max and @stacy
I don’t want to hog the board here, there are many voices…
To be brief, I think saving the future is, in the end, a sales job. To get the job done, we have to consider what works and what doesn’t, given the psychology of the customer (U.S. Public) for the new ideas, So we have to analysis his mind and see where his heads at…..
You have to sell to Zombies….it’s tough.
@Mike/Liverpool –
. . . take me to your leader
Bank of America Now Proudly Exporting HFT Market Death And Destruction To Asia http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bank-america-now-proudly-exporting-hft-market-death-and-destruction-asia
Study finds 13 toxins along oil sands river
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100830/oilsands-pollution-100830/20100830/?hub=EdmontonHome
AJS Just Started! http://www.infowars.com/
Oh boy, the bots are out to make the site slow again; will get on to host again to work on the DNS. So strange how only deniers don’t like to hear anyone else have an opinion. Very strange, indeed, for such Truth holders.
@ MIke: the people get the leader they deserve: well, apperently you deserve Alex. Nothing wrong with that. I am an anarchist so don’t need to find my leader.
I think everyone here should recognize what our hosts on this board are providing for us. It’s a great forum and very entertaining and very informative, So always be gentle, people….
Hello Max & Stacy, today’s Keiser Report was very informative, also today the FTSE went on a rollercoaster ride and someone floated the idea that the UK and France would share aircraft carriers!
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100831/tuk-uk-britain-france-defence-fa6b408.html
Two interesting items were recently sent to me;
“Stick to the science, UN climate body urged”
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Stick+science+climate+body+urged/3463890/story.html#ixzz0yCUg21Fi
and;
Wikileaks is moving their servers into a nuclear bunker !
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latest-news/wikileaks-servers-move-underground-nuclear-bunker
Quick…check out Alex Jones covering latest climate scam
Why is a scientist in a discussion between a politician “what is needed” What we need to move forward is proverly verified and scruitinised scientific data leading to an understanding of how the climate operates.
“virtually all of the climate ‘skeptics’ refer back to self serving groups and “scientists” sponsored by the Koch Brothers. ”
Name them
UN climate change panel to be warned over reports – The United Nation’s climate change organisation faces a warning over how it uses scientific facts in its influential reports, following the discovery of a series of embarrassing errors in its work. 29 August 2010, by Richard Gray, Science Correspondent (Telegraph.UK) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7969460/UN-climate-change-panel-to-be-warned-over-reports.html
@Fiatmentalist – here’s a Koch scientist for you, Dr. Patrick Michaels, Cato; they also finance Heartland, which was founded by an ex-Phillip Morris lobbyist and is partly funded by Koch; they give big speaking fees to Lindzen and Monckton and the Univ of Alabama professors
Homelessness Up 50% In New York City http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/nyc/homelessness-up-in-new-york-city-20100830-lgf
Gold good on the upside today. Keeping my eye on silver.
@Michael Goyer,
Alex Jones just parrots John Birch Society talking points, which were brought to you by . . . the Koch family!
What I find deliciously ironic is that the presciption for averting “one world government” offered by people like the John Birch Society, G. Edward Griffin and Ron Paul actually guarantees a one world government. Neo-feudalism, here we come!
‘Max
You LOST, FACT…’
Mike take a look at gold price
Gold Advances to Two-Month High on Haven Demand Amid Global Equity Slump http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/gold-advances-most-in-two-weeks-on-haven-demand-amid-global-equity-slump.html
I was afraid that Max was gonna rap at the beginning of the show..
U.S. Banks Post $21.6B Profit as `Problem’ Lenders Rise http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/u-s-banks-post-21-6-billion-quarterly-profit-as-problem-lenders-rise.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anHuOAXIl0M
Climate change scam. Listen to Piers Corbyn. There is simply no date that support man made rise in temperature. On average the temperature is sinking!
Believing in Global Warming caused by man namely raising global temperature is like believing that humans can move a mountain or the ocean or can stop a hurricane or tornado.
You just cannot do it.
Of course humans polute air and water and there is a great rise in disease rate in areas with oil refinery plants or any chemical plant.
But changing the life circle itself with the in-built capability to regenerate that is much much stronger than any human affords is just impossible for humans.
No scientist can prove that we can overcome forces of nature no matter if he is a slave or free.
Two men being held by authorities in Amsterdam after arriving on a flight FROM THE U.S. are unlikely to have been planning a terrorist attack, two U.S. law enforcement officials said. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/two-men-held-in-amsterdam-said-unlikely-to-be-planning-a-terrorist-attack.html
AL CIAda in full swing again!
And here is quote from David Koch who finances all these Heartland, Cato and Americans for Prosperity groups that are the source of funds for many of the scientists against climate change:
“If we’re going to give a lot of money, we’ll make darn sure they spend it in a way that goes along with our intent… And if they make a wrong turn and start doing things we don’t agree with, we withdraw funding.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer?
wecome To Your Enslavement!
EU Carbon Permits to Advance to 16.50 Euros Next Month, Says Sagacarbon http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/eu-carbon-permits-to-advance-to-16-50-euros-next-month-says-sagacarbon.html
This “divergence in behavior across the yield curve is very significant,” said Gundlach, who oversees $4.8 billion in assets in Los Angeles as chief executive officer of DoubleLine. “So while the fundamentals for low rates remain compelling, the message of the market action suggests that much of these now widely recognized fundamentals are reflected in Treasury bond prices.”
From: DoubleLine’s Gundlach Cuts Treasuries as Yields Begin `Bottoming Process’ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/doubleline-s-gundlach-cuts-treasuries-as-yields-begin-bottoming-process-.html
Analysts raised their 2011 forecasts more than for any other precious metal the past two months, predicting a 10th annual advance, data compiled by Bloomberg show. The most widely held option on gold futures traded in New York is for $1,500 an ounce by December, or 18 percent more than the record $1,266.50 reached June 21. Holdings through bullion-backed exchange-traded products are already at more than 2,075 metric tons, within 0.1 percent of the all-time high.
From: Gold Rallying to $1,500 as Soros’s Bubble Inflates http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-30/gold-rallying-to-1-500-for-analysts-as-soros-s-bubble-inflates.html
olgak – ‘is just impossible for humans.’
Sorry nope. Its dependent on how it reacts with natural forcing – just like a spark ignites combustion in a petrol engine and goes on to produce a much bigger force. The waste product blown out the end times millions + natural forcing may well be raising global temperature. The problem is that its so complex to get at a truth. Add that to humans natural bent to paranoia; delusion; exploitation; outright madness and we have all round hot head situation – maybe that too is adding to global warming – all our hot heads.
Just a thought.
Overdose: The Next Financial Crisis
In times of crisis people seek strong leaders and simple solutions. But what if their solutions are identical to the mistakes that caused the very crisis? This is the story of the greatest economic crisis of our age, the one that awaits us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE
YT’er : journeymanpictures | August 31, 2010
Clips from : Celente,AJ, Schiff,Bush and others.
@Bronxy,
Why should anyone listen to Piers Corbyn, a man who has been associated with the Heartland Institute, a Kock-backed propaganda farm?
A better question is why do you listen to him? What is it that he and people like him say that resonates with you? Are you another one of those Bircher types who worries about the globalist/communist take over of the world and believe that global warming is how the globalist/communists will achieve that takeover? If so, how does that work exactly? It’s not clear to me how nations cooperating to face a common problem, e.g. global recession, leads to one-world government (hint: it doesn’t), so why is global warming different?
“And now for the weather, Climate change supporters and deniers fighting it out over here and there, while we deforest the earth, there and here.” – FKN NEWZ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFaBV5p-JYs
Get over yourselves.
Ron Paul, Alex Jones etc, do a good kob at identifying many of the issues at hand, but the solution, I believe, is yet to be envisioned, but it does have a few obvious ingredients….world wide debt forgiveness and other reset buttons that do not merely restart the same old systems. What this entails in total…I am not sure that it involves old ideas or examples. Time to move beyond history.
Titan Capital Joins Black Swan’s Taleb in Raising Bets on Crash http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-30/titan-capital-joins-black-swan-s-taleb-in-raising-bets-on-extreme-moves.html
@Awho …. FKN NEWZ.
Deek Jackson is IMO the new George Carlin.
Brilliant guy … and he has the sharpest viewpoints on most things that are happening today IMO.
@ Tao
enjoy your comments today, the people following the AJS do so in my opinion to ratify their world view, the old joke about him being a plant to make people feel impotant is ludicrious yet that type of show does exactly that…this omni present malignant force out there destroying everything does make people retret inward….I am amazed that the whole Conservative movement is dead in America except for the fringe John Birch and Concerned Christian Coalition, that truthfully was discredited and imploded in the late 70s its back and the Republician party is crawling into bed with it…they’ll will ride it to maybe a victory in the upcoming election…but from just a pure demographics understanding it is a dying movement
your critic on consummerism is valid, yet I would maintain that is a nutural outgrowth of Capitolism, in its need for exspansion and increasing rewards…Chomsky quotes Disreali (maybe misspelling old British PM) about the concerns of freeing Jamacain slaves…”how do we keep them working on the sugar plantations once they are free, well close down habital land to them, then create a laudry list of wants that only can be satisfied with currency earned at the plantation”(paraphrasing the exact quote to lazy to look up) its the same pattern Rhodes used in South Africa or truthfully since the inception of industrialism
off to drown my sorrows in Vodka and Strippers…hope everyone else has as productive of a day
U.S. Auto Sales May Hit 28-Year Low as Discounts Flop http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/auto-sales-in-u-s-may-be-worst-in-28-years-in-august-as-buyers-shun-deals.html
I always thought one of the stronger factors favoring Global Warming and ice melt, was an effect seen back in the ’70′s where somebody looking at the snowpack in the arctic, found, on close examination, a bunch of soot particles lying on the snow, not always visible, but each soot particle tended to “burrow” down into the snowpack because it’s blackness (increased it’s light absorption). This made sense to me because in Pittsburgh, we had a lot of black snow, and it didn’t last long.
Overtime, this process in the arctic contributed to ice loss, and the resulting open ocean and/or land (as in Greenland) has higher solar absorption then snow, which means that the earth overall, absorbs more of the suns heat as the reflective ice pack melts away.
I don’t know to what extent this factor is in the climate models, as I sensed big business didn’t want to hear about it. CO2 you could blame on the consumer, because he had a car, and heck, he breathes, causes all kind of problems. But soot is more of an industrial thing, and that’s the group that wants to avoid regulation and costs. Now CO2 might be causing warming, but I would say spreading soot over the arctic regions is going to cause something, as it accumulates.
Would be curious to know how well this effect is quantitatively understood, and incorporated in the models…
Toyota Prius May Lead Japan Car Sale Collapse as Subsidies End http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-30/toyota-s-prius-may-lead-collapse-in-japan-s-car-sales-as-subsidies-expire.html
@Stacey,
“I love the comment from the youtube page, “tyranny starts when people stop talking” . . . and notice the side of the debate that wishes to end all discussion? Who literally cannot hear one word that contradicts their evidently fragile world view? Like a robot that will short circuit if you overload it with contradictory orders.”
Good Point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNzBRiAyn8o&feature=related
min 1:26 -the science is settled.
@ flicks
Do you realy think “a petrol engine” can litterally change millions qubic meters of air for good?
I am not talking of a sparks I talk about mountains and tornados, snow and rain at least. And how about in-built capability of nature including air to regenerate?
@ Max and Stacey
Why do you think all these people including me on this site do not agree with you on man-made Global Warming but they do agree with you on economic issues?
When are we slaves when we believe you or don’t believe you?
It is common sense that tells us that humans cannot affect forces of nature to change them including global temperature.
And when people like war criminal and monetary guru Al Gore campaign for it to tax us it makes us doubt it even more.
Moderate Drinkers May Toast Research Finding They Live Longer http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/two-drinks-daily-helps-people-live-longer-than-abstaining-study-confirms.html
Not You! @ronron
Anybody got any comments on my ‘soot’ story? Any takers?
So I’m saying, what if global warming is real, and humans are causing a lot of it, but corporations are emphasizing CO2 over soot because they can dump the blame on the little guy….
@Mark Lytle … Soot …
I repeat : … another type of Pollution.
Dirty air … has more effect on Sunlight penetration and Rainfall than Co2
MMGW ? .. just follow the money.
European Inflation Slows to 1.6% (Disinflation), Unemployment Holds at Highest Since 1998 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/europe-inflation-slows-to-1-6-unemployment-holds-at-12-year-high-of-10-.html
@mirrormirror
Thanks for responding, I think I smell a deeper rat in this climate thing then most people do, and I think your smelling it too…
I agree with olgak. Most of us are just trying to help Max and Stacey out. I think overall Max and Stacey are doing a great job.
But lets not forget that you fell for “hope and change” and were stumpin’ for Obama. Now, it’s like you’re doubling down on ” Hope and Climate Change”.
Anyway, it’s getting cold up here. The climate is a changing.
And the beauty of it is, it’s just the way the powers that be operate. They tell part of the truth, but there’s always some little twist, or untold half truth, or baldfaced lie, to throw the disadvantages or costs in the little guy’s lap…
@Mark Lytle …. rats
When all the politicians of the World meet (in Copenhagen) and actually ALL AGREE ON SOMETHING … then you know it’s MORE MONEY !
Obama Blows Off 3 Billion Wannabe Billionaires: William Pesek http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-29/obama-rejects-3-billion-wannabe-billionaires-commentary-by-william-pesek.html
Stacy:
How would you define “a real scientist”?
i was captured by the soot parable .sinking into the frozen hell ,the suns warmth a two sided dagger. deeper into the frozen white nothingness. how alone us carbon are, hydrogen is the enemy a shape shifter in its many states
Yet this point is subtle, and with all of the passion out there, I probably wouldn’t get a fair hearing on the idea in the public if I promoted it. It probably doesn’t suit either camp in the debate entirely, yet, if true, would resolve the debate and some of the dilemma’s.
@Mark & @Kwazimoto …. Pollution !
Danny Crane 101
What was the silly thing we said in the ’70′s as a corporate mock?
The solution to pollution is dilution.
Well, that doesn’t work anymore….
PS@Overdose: The Next Financial Crisis
Did anyone bother to watch ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE
Very well put together , especially the last 10 mins.
I posted last night another ’70′s political wisdom rhyme, reposted here:
In Capitalism, man exploits man.
In Communism it’s just the reverse.
@snoot – this does a pretty good job defining a scientist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist; in particular, those who have used or are using scientific method: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method I would say an ‘unreal’ one who may have an advanced degree, but uses assertion rather than scientific method, which is, I assume, very time consuming, repetitive and filled with lots of disappointments and frustration so I can see where assertion would be a more appealing option; I don’t believe they need to have an advanced degree, but they do need to be honestly challenging their own hypotheses; and in the case of my statement, I meant one who is trained in this method but also that knows how to explain the science; so these proposed debates between say Monckton and Gore are just two guys with an opinion on other people’s science (or opinion); neither of them is a scientist and you can see that in the obvious mistakes they have each made
The Revenge of Main Street
… Wall Street has no respect for you at all. Not even a tiny amount. As far as they are concerned, they are the wolves and you are the sheep. They are supposed to eat your life savings. After all, if you are dumb enough to keep throwing money at them after they keep taking your money, then you deserve it. …
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/8/30/897474/-The-Revenge-of-Main-Street
@chArles,
“your critic on consummerism is valid, yet I would maintain that is a nutural outgrowth of Capitolism, in its need for exspansion and increasing rewards”
For publicly-traded companies, modern capitalism is inextricably intertwined with consumerism, but that wasn’t the case before the 20th century, and it still isn’t the case for companies that are not publicly held. It’s the financialization of companies whose shares are traded on the secondary equity markets that makes them beholden to the short term expectations of constant growth set by Wall Street (the only shareholder that matters).
August Fed Minutes Show Interest In Doing More To Stimulate, Fears Of “Disinflation” http://www.businessinsider.com/august-fed-minutes-2010-8
31,000 scientist disagree with Marx and Stazi via a personally signed petition .EcoMarxism is a religion of the “NEW LEFT”.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/
“We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.
There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth. “
In this climate debate, I’m feeling more and more like a Ron Paul supporter at a mixed political event. My experience is when two side rail at each other with ferocity, and no resolution, there’s something going on that represents a third way. It’s not the middle, i.e. fence sitting. It’s a Hegelian dialectic, stillborn. Something real is being seen/felt by both sides, but it stays unarticulated. It is partially or largely unconscious.
What’s needed is a midwife, to bring the truth out, to allow it to be born. But the role requires pluck and durability. Many in that role have a tough time of it….
For as many wedge issues this country has (they multiply daily, it seems) we need many of these people…
Woooooowhooooo,..I’m loving these climate debates,…keep it up y’all : )
@Mark Lytle,..
The most sensible comment so far !
CHART OF THE DAY: Number Of “Problem” Banks Hits Brand-New High http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-number-of-fdic-insured-problem-institutions-2010-8
But, Stacy, true scientists never assert that theory is in a condition of stasis. Isn’t that the claim of climate scientists that you ‘agree with’?
@Stacy and Max,
I ask again. Is Anthony Watts a “Koch Bot”? His site http://wattsupwiththat.com/ is where I keep up on the debate.
Small Businesses Aren’t Hiring, Either http://www.businessinsider.com/small-businesses-arent-hiring-either-2010-8
@Dedo
Thanks!
RT : Greece businesses on brink of bust
ReutersVideo–August 31, 2010–Greek officials warn thousands of small businesses are at risk of closing leading to a rise in unemployment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFa17kr4n04
@F. Beard,
Anthony Watts has certainly chosen to associate himself with the Koch-funded Heartland Institute:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Anthony_Watts
And he signed SEPP’s Leipzig Declaration. A little info about SEPP’s president, who appears to be a member of a variety of Koch-backed endeavors:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=S._Fred_Singer
But, seriously, you listen to what a weather man says about anything?
@Max and @Stacy and @ everybody on Climate
Check this out:
Global Warming. Soot snow/ice albedo climate forcing is not included in Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change evaluations.
This forcing is unusually effective, causing twice as much global warming as a CO2 forcing of the same magnitude. This high efficacy is a straight-forward consequence of positive albedo feedbacks and atmospheric stability at high latitudes.
This is under the ‘discussion’ section of this link.
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/2/423.long
PNAS in the link stands for Proceeding for the National Academy of Sciences.
I still smell a rat. I smell a huge, hairy, unwashed, non-hygienic scavenging quadrapod.
Anybody else?
@Tao Jonesing,
I am curious to what school of thought economically you support or follow. (And what is a “rentier”?)
It’s the financialization of companies whose shares are traded on the secondary equity markets that makes them beholden to the short term expectations of constant growth set by Wall Street (the only shareholder that matters).
Does this contradict F.Beard’s assurtion that money should be common stock?
Not trying to be confrontational; just trying to understand.
Hugh Hendry Explains His Potash Bet, And Why A Global Food Shortage Probably Won’t Happen http://www.businessinsider.com/hugh-hendry-potash-food-shortage-2010-8
Sorry Food Bulls, Monsanto Just Lowered Its Outlook http://www.businessinsider.com/monsanto-lowers-outlook-2010-8
My hypothesis is getting stronger. The models, flawed as they are, show soot, that industry is responsible for, to be potent for warming at higher levels then CO2 under some circumstances. But neither the oil/coal companies, responsible for diesel and coal soot, nor Climate scientists seem to want to include this in their models.
Why?
Tao Jonesing …. But, seriously, you listen to what a weather man says about anything?
You raise a good point here !
We all heard about the UK Met-Office Fiasco … about their LR forecasts being mostly wrong.
Jeremy Paxman interviewed the Met-Office boss on TV IIRC … & gave him a scalding.
Is the “science” of these “Weather men” based on (Government) Scientist data maybe ?
And … IIRC … that chap you called a “Weather man” was actually the very same guy that Paxman mentioned as beating the “official” weather forcasts HANDS DOWN !
( the “guy” uses the Sun cycles for his weather predictions )
And … if I may proceed : That very same guy makes a living of selling his forecasts to the Insurance Industry, who pay VERY good money for his work.
FWIW
Seems like Marx and Stazi are blocking links, nice to see open and honest debate…
Do you know an outsider? a loony, schizo, or otherwise considered crazy person? If you do, then ask them how they survive. What kind of systems they use to keep from shooting themselves. I’m just saying. It might come in handy!
On another note. I once heard a neuro specialist say that a good metaphor for a working brain is like a tropical thunderstorm.. hmmmm
@WL
Max and Stacy wouldn’t do that.
I’ve had occasional problems, I think the software has bugs…
@WL @Matk L. … it’s their Anti MMGW SPAM filter .
Bankrupt Miami in Fiscal Emergency, Breaks Employee Contracts, Hikes Property Taxes http://www.businessinsider.com/bankrupt-miami-in-fiscal-emergency-breaks-employee-contracts-hikes-property-taxes-2010-8
@Mark Lytle,
With the Soot thing, you might want to check the net effect of it. The pollution does serve as water condensation nuclei, which is needed for clouds to form. You should check the wind patterns as well. (The models the use (or use to use) for the world have it as a solid globe or at best three zones, the equator and the poles. Not a very good model)
We are coming either out of an Ice age or an inter-glacial period. That being the case it is going to get warmer. But that is a good thing. Perma-frost is a remenant of the Ice age.
Interview of founder of weather action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEmUS7PAWFw&feature=player_embedded
Fascism, the US government funds global eco Marxism through EPA and Stimulus package..
Start with .pacificenvironment.org (add www)
They received gov stimulus money, huh waa. Why? Who are they? answer Eco-Marxists funneling money to Russian lobbyist
.coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ContentRecord_id=20532b9f-f9ae-46d7-b2bf-0f01cd75d90d (add www)
pdf
.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=a7e82141-1a9e-4eec-b160-6a8e62427efb (add www)
23. Helping Siberians Lobby Russian Policymakers (San Francisco, CA) – $199,862
Pacific Environment, a San-Francisco based non-profit organization that “protects the living environment of the Pacific Rim by promoting grassroots activism, strengthening communities and reforming international policies,”200 has received a stimulus grant for an experimental applied science project to assist indigenous Siberian communities in engaging Russian policymakers in local civic and environmental issues.201 Researchers will be helping Siberian locals with “mapping [their] cultural and metaphysical space…[to] facilitate the indigenous voice in policy and management debates “– in other words, becoming grassroots lobbyists. Pacific Environment itself calls the project “high-risk, high
return.”202
Pacific Environmental attended a conference put on by the World Resource institute
.wri.org/ (add www)
Discover the networks on World Resource Institute with financial and personnel connections to the EPA and other US gov programs
.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7070 (add www)
WRI
10 G Street, NE
Suite 800
Washington DC
20002
Phone :202-729-7600
URL: Website
•
Anti-capitalist think tank which funded with taxpayer dollars
•
Opposes free market-based methods of protecting the environment
Founded in 1982, the World Resources Institute (WRI) describes itself as “an environmental think tank that goes beyond research to find practical ways to protect the earth and improve people’s lives.” Former Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) administrator Russell Train, who was the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) Board Chairman and a Rockefeller Foundation Board member, was instrumental in securing $15 million in seed money from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, plus $10 million more from the Andrew K. Mellon Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation, to launch WRI.
Other WRI founders include: ecologist George Woodwell, who established the Environmental Defense Fund and the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC); physicist Murray Gell-Mann, a former Director of the MacArthur Foundation; and WRI’s first President, James Gustave Speth, who co-founded NRDC, was a member of Bill Clinton’s White House transition team, and now heads the United Nations Development Program (UNDP).
WRI was meant to be “a major center for policy research and analysis addressed to global resource and environmental issues.” Its annual revenue is now nearly $20 million, and its assets total approximately $45 million, of which $34.9 million is invested in securities, according to recent IRS disclosures and WRI’s annual report. WRI boasts that it “has a staff of 150 professionals from more than 20 nations, connected to a network of advisors, collaborators, international fellows, and partner institutions in more than 50 countries.”
According to the WRI website, the organization’s objectives are to: “provide objective information and practical proposals for policy changes that will foster environmentally sound development”; and to combat “[t]he most serious of the world’s environmental threats — deforestation, desertification, and global climate change.” In order to accomplish the latter, WRI recommends that the U.S. cede environmental decision-making to the United Nations because environmental “challenges” are “more global in scope and international in implication.”
Much of WRI’s work has been geared toward addressing the alleged dangers of global warming, and the group urges U.S. acceptance of the Kyoto Protocol. WRI President Jonathan Lash, a former NRDC lawyer, has advised European governments on how to seduce Russia into implementing Kyoto in order to force U.S. acceptance of it.
WRI also collaborates biennially with the UNDP and the UN Environment Program to publish its “World Resources” reports. WRI claims these reports reach as many as 80,000 “government officials, academics, non-governmental organizations, [and] representatives of international institutions and industry,” as well as the media and other opinion-shapers around the world. Each report focuses on one environmental “problem,” which it exhaustively describes, and for which it then proposes a “solution.” These reports generally blame capitalism for many of the problems that plague humanity and the natural world. As the Capital Research Center explains, the WRI position is that “[t]he environment is degraded by a global ‘economic system that rewards exploitation’ and leads to ‘an inequitable distribution of property and power over natural resources … [P]rivatization often leads to greater public exclusion … since it shifts ownership — and therefore control — to corporations and other actors that do not have to answer to the general public.’”
WRI is also “leading the charge to politicize management education” with its Beyond Grey Pinstripes program, notes James Sheehan, an adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. b. “[S]ocial planners believe business schools are ideal places to indoctrinate future managers and executives. By infusing MBA students with leftwing attitudes, these social planners envision a future corporate America devoid of scandal and committed to ideals other than profit.”
WRI’s Board of Directors includes former EPA administrator William D. Ruckelshaus, who was responsible for the 1972 DDT ban and had ties to the Environmental Defense Fund ; NRDC’s Frances Beinecke; and former Clinton administration Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman.
The tax-exempt WRI relies heavily on taxpayer-funded advocacy, receiving nearly one-fourth of its financing from the U.S. government. In recent years WRI has received an average of $2.7 million in annual government funding, with an all-time high topping $5 million in 1998. Its biggest government benefactor has been the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). According to the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI), WRI has used EPA global warming grants to help promote the Kyoto global warming treaty. According to the CEI’s James Sheehan, “The World Resources Institute was given $150,000 to demonstrate how the climate treaty would improve public health.” In addition to the EPA, WRI also receives financial backing from the Agriculture Department, the Department of Energy, the National Space and Aeronautics Association, and the State Department’s U.S. Agency for International Development.
WRI receives additional funding from the AT&T Foundation, the Bauman Family Foundation, the Nathan Cummings Foundation, the Energy Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the Joyce Foundation, the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, Pew Charitable Trusts, the Prospect Hill Foundation, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Summit Foundation, the Surdna Foundation, the Turner Foundation, and numerous others.
This is were it gets good..
So the conference report is here (below) and includes attendees names and their strategy for global climate debt REPARATIONS.. WOW so the EPA is both funding a group promoting climate debt reparations and regulating C02 outside of congress and the electorate. Propaganda or conflict of interest..or ????
pdf.wri.org/wri_climate_finance_meeting_summary_feb_2010.pdf (add www)
Some interesting SELECT quotes from that report… A blueprint for global eco-marxism FUNDED BY THE US TAXPAYER (EPA)
What is climate finance?
Climate finance is the channeling of public resources towards developing countries for mitigation and adaptation efforts to respond to the causes and impacts of climate change through frameworks and mechanisms that are equitable, leverage private sector capital, and in line with national development goals.
Special drawing rights
“Special drawing rights” (SDRs) are “international reserve assets” issued by the IMF to member countries. The IMF uses SDRs as its monetary unit of account, and the value of the SDR is based on a mix of four foreign currencies, the U.S. dollar, the Euro, the Japanese Yen and the U.K. Pound sterling. SDRs were devised in 1969, during a shortage of both dollars and gold, but have been used most recently in response to the global financial and economic crisis. The IMF has also used SDRs as a low interest
alternative to debt for countries in order to boost global liquidity during financial crises. One participant described SDRs as a “coupon” that the IMF provides to governments. SDRs have the backing of the governments on IMF’s Board of Directors. Governments hold SDRs in reserve, and can convert them into hard currency through the IMF system. Unlike other programs at the IMF, no conditions are attached to SDRs. Governments eventually repay the SDRs with an adjustable, and usually quite low, interest rate. In effect, this provides countries with a low interest finance tool. The IMF has not used SDRs in this way since 1981, but in April 2009 the G20 began to consider reusing them after the UN Stiglitz Commission highlighted SDRs as a potential solution to the financial crisis.
In Copenhagen, George Soros suggested that SDRs could be used as a tool for climate finance. Under this system, climate SDRs would be available only for developing countries, and would also be established such that financing does not only occur in the form of loans (because of the principle that developing countries should not pay their own mitigation and adaptation costs).
Climate debt
Participants also discussed “climate debt,” a concept being spearheaded by Bolivia and many southern movements during the climate negotiations. Climate debt attempts to capture the full costs of climate change. It is based on the idea that each person has a right to an equal share of “carbon space,” and each country’s fair share is based on its population. Countries whose historical and continuing emissions exceed their fair share owe a debt to other countries. According to Bolivia’s calculation, Annex I countries only have rights to ¼ of the carbon space.
The climate debt concept can help to frame the parameters of any climate finance proposals going forward. As one participant explained, “Climate finance is not aid or assistance. It is an obligation, it is reparations.” As a result, climate finance should not come in the form of loans or other debt-creating instruments, and should not require developing countries to share the burden.
Civil society strategies for moving forward
A major goal of the strategy meeting was to determine the political feasibility of various climate finance proposals, identify time frames, and map opportunities for campaigning. Many participants agreed that by working towards a common vision, civil society organizations could have a greater influence on the climate finance debate. This strategy meeting was a first attempt to empower civil society organizations to cooperate in moving forward. As one participant explained, “It’s not a lack of will, it’s a lack of
political muscle.”
Creating public awareness and support
Most participants recognized the need to move the climate finance debate beyond the policy experts into the broader public. This will depend, however, on creating a successful narrative and messaging.
Many of the civil society organizations at the strategy meeting consider this a critical missing link.
Participants raised questions such as:
• Can we create a common narrative or vision that demystifies the climate change process?
• How can we link climate finance to job creation during the financial crisis?
• How can we build climate finance movements, and collaborate with other sectors, social campaigns, religious groups, and rights-based groups?
• How can northern civil society organizations support southern civil society organizations that wish to engage in the climate finance debate?
appinsys.com/GlobalWarming/GlobalGovernance.htm (add www to link as this site seems to be blocked here)
The World Resources Institute (WRI) of which Maurice Strong was once Chairman, is an environmental think tank founded in 1982 by James (Gus) Speth with funding from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation. Al Gore is on the WRI board of directors. The current board chairman – James Harmon is a Senior Advisor to the Rothschild Group and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Speth was an administrator at UNEP and chair of the UN Development Group and is also on the board (and co-founder) of the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. WRI Board member Frances Beineke is also the president of NRDC. Speth was co-author of “Global Environmental Governance” which states that “Global environmental governance includes but is not limited to the governance of the global commons.”
.books.google.com/books?id=8BodgyedGPoC&dq=global+environmental+governance+speth&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=bhzSeywnYR&sig=jam1bkkNZgeAOdEJI0_16_Smfdo&hl=en&ei=MuSpSuL1GYfatgP3wcSTBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false (add www)
There are so many connections here it is sickening…
No globalist fascist agenda to see here, move along now the elites like Max and Stacy will guide you to the promise land..
Hala feckin luya..
See AGW critical sites blocked, got them through.
Feckin hypocrites M & S
Now here’s an interesting thing. That reference I sited was from 2002, about models not including carbon soot.
Later search shows that now soot is included.
Here’s a nice seminar from 2004 at NREL (National Renewable Energy Laboratory)
This seminar is all about including soot in the models and what it means. Nicely, they give the sponsors of the event.
They are:
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA)
American Petroleum Institute (API)
National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
California Air Resources Board (CARB)
Diesel Technology Forum (DTF)
No disinterested parties at this renewable event
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/nfti/bc_technical_wkshp.html
But in the press, we’re still talking CO2 only, right?
http://rt.com/Business/2010-08-27/russia-asia-novatek-murmansk.html
Russia seeks new sea routes to Asia
China is about to dump dollars, and expecting USA to cut sea routes to retaliate, so they are looking for new sea routes together with Russia???
Maybe???
@WL .. Wow .. Thx .
@Mark L.
whoops, serve as Cloud Condensation Nuclei. (CCN)
@Max and Stacy
Want to be more crefible on the environnemental front ? You should start to talk about peak natural resources. I am no dogmatic guy about CO2. CO2 destroys brain cells and is real bad for the heart. Since I am a guy that has heart, I am not a Exx-Bot like Stacy said the other day. You Greenies, wshich generally I LIKE very much, should elaborate the concept and cover things like water and natural resources. As you I believe we are wasting precious resources like oil, gas, porash and yes, metals and forest. We should be trying to change the brains of people instead of giving money to Al Gore and George Saurus.
But, seriously, you listen to what a weather man says about anything? Tao Jonesing
Watt’s specialty is tracking down temperature monitoring stations and showing that in many cases civilization has grown around them (urban heat island effect) and skewed the measurements to give a false rising temperature trend. It does not take a degree in rocket science to do that. Nor does it require one to point out shoddy science such as extrapolating the temperature of areas without any measuring stations.
It boils down to this for me, Tao. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and I don’t see it. Plus, we aren’t talking about a toxic substance such as lead but an essential compound for life, CO2. Plus CO2 is the inevitable by-product of the use of fossil fuels which our economy depends on.
The giveaway for me though, is that who oppose CO2 often also oppose nuclear which emits no GHGs. So it is evident to me that they are opposed to economic growth and progress not just CO2.
In summary, the overall picture is just too blurred and confused to be taken seriously. The world is supposed to cool for the next 30 years. I suggest we replace fossil fuel power stations with nuclear anyway since it is a waste of carbon to burn it for that application.
Oupss Potash.
@William
Yep, I know about that, I have a rusty Meteorology degree….from 1973.
yep in finland was sooo hot summer for ages …
but housing markest are boiling too.
housing bubles going bigger and bigger …
prices about flats / houses are went out of hands , really.
numbers from today : finnish peole have 74,6 billion house loans witch increased last july by 400 million euros.
some prices : new flat in Helsinki, Töölö : 48 m² + 2rooms, small kitchen 532 814 €
sub urban area flat in -54 build house helsinki : 42 m² + 2rooms small
98 000 €
but most of shitty flats 20-40 m2 cost usually 100 000 -300 000 e at capital helsinki area. .. totally insane.
most of people are 120% -500% dept.
and press is still talking about there is no bubble and intrest rates wont go high…
best topic was ” it’s ok to be dept in 500% ”
just waiting crash when many basic workers lose their job or partner in family …so many people have crazy depts accoring to income.
totally crazyness.
Three Articles For Mass-Distribution: Rockefeller Depopulation Plans Exposed http://www.infowars.com/three-articles-for-mass-distribution-rockefeller-depopulation-plans-exposed/
Climate Change: A Failed Attempt To Establish “Scientific Dictatorship” http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-a-failed-attempt-to-establish-scientific-dictatorship/
@Youri … the Information War
Pretty amazing that so much Info is crystallizing together .
AJ would have been regarded as a complete “nutter” 10 years ago.
But, as I have often said … his crazy “Coincidence Theory” gets less crazy as time progresses.
Just as well the J6P’ers don’t read this stuff ….. and watch “Coronation Street” instead !
Ground Zero Islamic center’s funding leads to CFR http://www.infowars.com/ground-zero-islamic-centers-funding-leads-to-cfr/
What up What up
Hic
@Youri … Tut tut … isn’t CFR on the ” t e r o rrist’s terms” list ?
@William of the North,
“I am curious to what school of thought economically you support or follow.”
I don’t believe that any school of economics has all of the answers, and I think some of them are downright dangerous (e.g., the Chicago and Austrian schools, although for entirely different reasons). The school that I consider most promising is the Post-Keynesian school as represented by Steve Keen (and Hyman Minsky before him). I also am a fan of old-school Institutionalism (like Myrdal, Verblen and JKG) because it recognizes that monetary considerations are only one part of economic decision making.
My biggest beef with all schools of economic thought is that they either ignore the “man behind the curtain” (the FIRE sector of our economy) or they apologize for his penchant for starting economic fires (i.e., recessions and depressions). Even when economists have called out this bad economic actor (as Keynes, Minsky and Keen have), they refuse to take away his matches (i.e., debt-financed speculation, which the Austrians essentially apologize for by euphimistically calling “malinvestment”).
Based on everything I’ve seen thus far, the real cause of deep economic downturns is always debt-financed speculation, and I think the use of fractional-reserve lending to fund casino bets should be criminalized. The Austrians think they would outlaw all fractional reserve lending, but the financial innovators (aka fraudsters) have found ways around reserve requirements in the past and will do so again. The only real effect of the Austrian “free banking” approach would be to provide the FIRE sector a ready means for ensuring the scarcity of capital whenever it is in their interest to create recessions/depressions and/or to charge usurous interest. Debt peonage, in other words.
“And what is a “rentier”?”
I use the term “rentier” to refer to a third class of economic actor that is ignored by economists’ capital/labor duology. The classic definition is somebody whose income comes from renting/leasing land, the interests on bonds or dividends. I mean something much more specific than that; I’m really referring to financial speculators of the FIRE sector (which means that the whole sector isn’t necessarily rotten). Michael Hudson has some papers that I found helpful in defining my thoughts on this matter:
http://michael-hudson.com/2010/07/from-marx-to-goldman-sachs-the-fictions-of-fictitious-capital1/
http://michael-hudson.com/2010/05/neoliberalism-and-the-counter-enlightenment/
“Does this contradict F.Beard’s assurtion that money should be common stock?”
I haven’t thought about F. Beard’s proposal, so I don’t really know. I’ll have to think about it more.
@MirrorMirror
Or “Comrade Dad” LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HkSjpW5Qjo
This global warming crap keeps coming back even on this show. This is not a global warming caused by people, aka known as anthropogenic. Yes, surely we contribute to the problem, but the major source of energy on the planet is Sun, not people. Not to mention HAARP and weather modification attempts. So, instead of pushing for idiotic laws, how about we just have something like this in North America for a start?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_308
One more appeal to some elementary logic here (even though I realize the GMO food has already done its damage to the people in North America), when Sun goes down at night and the temperature drops, do you think it drops because we stopped driving our cars and stopped breathing or simply because the major source of energy no longer projects its energy to the surface. Any f_cking ideas?
@Bonn
What’s Up?
Moderate Drinkers May Toast Research Finding They Live Longer http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-31/two-drinks-daily-helps-people-live-longer-than-abstaining-study-confirms.html
More Loose-Lips At The White House, As Another Staffer Basically Admits Stimulus Doesn’t Work http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-gibbs-admits-economy-is-in-trouble-2010-8
http://www.entertainmentandshowbiz.com/lady-gaga-terrified-with-cell-phones-2010083069643
Lady Gaga terrified with cell phones
She recently made a music video named Telephone, now and she is dead scared with the modern child of this communication device. According to a report published in Contactmusic, Lady Gaga is terrified with mobile phones and she thinks that if she keeps using this device then she might die with brain tumor.
She has been reading all those reports which suggests that prolong usage of mobile phones can cause health problems including brain tumors.
“There have been various reports suggesting mobile phone use can increase your risk of developing cancer and brain tumors and even though there’s no firm evidence, it really freaked her out.” contactmusic quoted a source as saying.
FWIW ….. chatter about JPM shutting down some trading desks / commodities etc.
Bye Bye Blythe: JPM Shutting Down Their Proprietary Commodity Trading Operation
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/08/bye-bye-blythe-jpm-shutting-down-their.html
@F. Beard,
“Watt’s specialty is tracking down temperature monitoring stations and showing that in many cases civilization has grown around them (urban heat island effect) and skewed the measurements to give a false rising temperature trend. It does not take a degree in rocket science to do that. Nor does it require one to point out shoddy science such as extrapolating the temperature of areas without any measuring stations. ”
Watt’s approach seems specious to me because it appeals to the mistaken notion that evidence of climate change is limited to and depends on people reading thermometers in real time. That’s simply not true. There are a variety of methods that have been used that do not involve thermometers in an attempt to falsify the theory of global warming (this is what scientists do when they test a theory), and they have not done so (in fact, the data appear to support the theory of global warming).
“It boils down to this for me, Tao. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and I don’t see it.”
Not being convinced is one thing, accusing the people making the argument of pulling a scam is another. Talk about an extraordinary claim!
“The giveaway for me though, is that who oppose CO2 often also oppose nuclear which emits no GHGs. ”
Your conclusion is based on the false assumption that people oppose both CO2 and nuclear do so for the same reason. One can oppose CO2 for one reason and nuclear for an entirely different reason, and I bet they do.
“In summary, the overall picture is just too blurred and confused to be taken seriously.”
It all depends on what picture you’re looking at and how much credence you lend the actors in the “debate.” The debate about global warming used to be limited to its true extent (i.e., how bad can it be really?) and whether mankind was responsible for it (i.e., what can we do that Mother Nature can’t?), but it has devloved into accusations of “scams,” and there is a lot of sophistry being pushed as science to claim now that there is no global warming. The magnitude and direction of change in this “debate” indicates that the current “debate” is a false one, and the fact that industries that stand to gain from business as usual are spending millions (if not billions) on the propaganda only reinforces that conclusion.
@Tao
Good analysis there…
@Tao
I keep saying there is a lot of uncertainty in the models. That a push for renewables (or whatever) should be done for other reason, that are obvious enough not to cause such acerbic and pointless debate.
This stuff is becoming religion to a lot of people, which is to say, it’s driving people nuts.
Who orchestrated the heat wave in the middle ages, when they grow grapes and made vine in Sweden?
And who is responsible for the little ice age in 1658 when the Swedish king Karl X Gustav made the march across the Belts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_across_the_Belts
I think there’s such a thing as arguing the right thing for the wrong reasons…
Could The Brain be a Parasite with a Stem(spine) that grows vines(nervous system)? All the other organs of the body serving it with oxygen and stimulus? At the peak of our body cased in a fortress of bone…Our body is a host? Is that why idealism denigrates flesh and substance? In consciousness the brain disparages its servants? Just as, while living, we are oblivious of the great work inside of our bodies? Are Organs slaves toiling in the darkness for our sense of the world?
Sadly, we extol the marvels of the brain as the heart tirelessly beats for the blush of tender embraces.
Just a thought. Maybe I am fooling myself. If the brain is a parasite all consciousness would be a mise en abyme.
Was it Bichat who first thought of it?
@Tao,
We’ll see. There is more IPCC blood in the water so I expect it will become more politically safe for skeptical scientists to come forth. However, even if the CO2 scare is dispatched it won’t matter since another one will take its place, imo.
FDIC: 829 problematic banks in second quarter http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fdic-reports-829-problematic-banks-2010-08-31
118 Failled Banks this year – 140 Failled Banks in 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932010_bank_failures_in_the_United_States
On Tuesday, the Pacific Salmon Commission announced it was expecting about 25 million salmon to return to the Fraser River this year, the largest run since 1913.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/08/26/bc-fraser-sockeye-salmon-numbers.html#ixzz0yDSlZkey
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/08/26/bc-fraser-sockeye-salmon-numbers.html
Whitesnake – Soldier Of Fortune (unplugged)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyj01YnOQOE
Hic
“Bank” is a misleading name. It implies that banks store money. Instead banks are temporary money (“credit”) generation sites. However, because banks generate credit in the government enforced monopoly money supply, they issue credit in OTHER people’s goods and services. That makes them counterfeiters who loan out their product rather than just spend it into circulation.
It all makes so much more sense now. Thank you very very much
Yeah the skeptical climatologists will be able to speak up………………………………………. all 5 of them
@Mark Lytle,
On one side you have people who are relying on scientists and the conclusions they reached from analyzing reams of data from a variety of different experiments that all point to the fact that global warming is a real issue.
On the other side you have people who rely on meterologists who develop experiments that can’t possibly address the vast body of work produced by the other side but can and will appeal to and “confirm” existing biases. These are the people treating this issue like a religion, and they’re the ones who are purposefully being driven nuts by well-aimed corporate-funded propaganda. High frequency trading In the marketplace of ideas prevents truth discovery.
FYI — I picked up a copy of “The Creature from Jekyll Island” yesterday and, for the first time, learned the genesis of the “global warming is a hoax” meme (the book actually peddles it). Extreme right wing Christians have been worried for decades that the godless communists are going to take over America, and the anti-global warming sentiment was bolted onto that existing paranoia. This may be why the “debate” seems religious in nature to you.
Most models have Hurricane Earl Heading to the Maritimes of Canada however the cone the margin of error includes Long Island and NYC itself and all of Eastern New England so it very important to watch this dangerous storm. A direct hit on either Long Island or NYC would prove very expensive.
@F. Beard,
“However, even if the CO2 scare is dispatched it won’t matter since another one will take its place, imo.”
I agree with your final conclusion. That’s why I don’t pay attention to traditional media except to understand where the various interests are trying to push the public.
@ Bonn
Here is a great link on the Annanuki and origins of man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZdC28H9jM
Bank is where the current / sea is channeled,…..ask the judge who sits on the “bench” (old high German) ,….. ; )
Money is stored energy,.eventually it needs to be used up, or it will transmute into something detrimental to the system,…(it needs to flow)
lots of definitions for “bank”
http://www.onelook.com/?w=bank&ls=a
@Dedo
Actually a lot of companies are sitting on thir cash now cause they don’t want to invest in this economical climate and they don’t get money from the banksters.
You really wonder why we need the banksters at all since they are causing this crises and contribute nothing!
@Bel-Ami You hit the nail straight on the head, as we say in the US, you are 100% correct! Organ slaves are toiling in the darkness for our well being and your theory on our nervous system is basically sound and will hold to every possible scrutiny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obfci1CIqq8
“High frequency trading In the marketplace of ideas prevents truth discovery.”
Indeed
1 x million petrol engines x 100 years = forcing of climate ? – yes
? is result
Kirk Kerkorian, owner of the gambling giant MGM Mirage, also lost worth in 2009. Since October 2007, shares of MGM Mirage have fallen 90% and Kerkorian lost a total of $8.2 billion over the course of 2009 alone.
Now that would cause your amygdala to go wild.
So not all the wealthy are not raking it in. Then I always wonder if he lost it wonder “found” it? Your strolling down a Las Vegas street and pick up a wallet with a banker’s check for 8.2 billion?? just a goofy scenario.
@Youri,….As you’re quite aware (we’ve gone over it again and again),.folk are conditioned to believe in this one system. And of course if anyone steps outside it, or tries to change it,…they’ll just get rubbed out!
Guess I’m going to have to say it again…… “And now for the weather, Climate change supporters and deniers fighting it out over here and there, while we deforest the earth, there and here.” – FKN NEWZ.
I know it may sound redundant and hippie-ish but…. really, all we need to do is plant and replant trees, and fly the bird (flip off, raise the middle finger) to the federal government and plant hemp any ways whether they like it or not (Hemp plant absorb twice to 3 times the amount that a fully grown tree does, and gives back twice the amount of oxygen), and BANG all your silly little worries about carbon (CO2) are pretty much illuminated. If all you folks who suffer from carbon phobia would stop bitching about who”s right and or who works for what agenda or society or group and wold spend more of that energy and time towards things like the ones listed above, we wouldn’t have to worry about this whole fear of ‘Climate changing’. Oh yeah, and once more, GET OVER YOURSELVES.
@Bel – Ami
The Chinese system of traditional medicine basically ignores the brain, and the Taoists recommend others follow the policy.
@WL
What “Free Market” has ever protected or considered the environment?(In quotes because the term “Free Market” is a fantasy and has never existed on Earth.) Markets exploit the Earth for gain. As Max aptly points out in the video above, Big Oil marketers never factor in environmental damage through the extraction and use of their resource as a cost. Beyond that the history of market growth and technical advancement has led to even greater ecological exploitation. All markets, even state run capitalist industry, in the former Soviet Union and now China, have a terrible record of pollution. Luckily the Chinese are wise and see the long term costs of carbon based industry and are presently leading the world in funding Fossil Fuel alternatives.
Senator Tom Coburn is a lackey for Big Oil. He votes for wars on the credit card and then cries about debt when it comes to extending benefits to the unemployed. He’s scum. He’ll gladly vote to spend a trillion on wars protecting Oil Resources and land for Oil Pipelines in Iraq and Afghanistan respectively. But $90 million for the victims of massive debt in the US, the long term unemployed, to cover health and income benefits–he takes a “principled stand for fiscal responsibility” and votes no. He’s scum.
@Tom
Cool. Thanks for letting me know.
I have an idea for a new PirateMyFilm title—->A BLOCKBUSTER! GUARANTEED BOX OFFICE JUGGERNAUT!
The title——> “KOCHSUCKERS!”
Good idea. You know Koch/Exxon would pay us $2500 per day. The bots would love us and we’d be so well paid! Stacy to willeyedoney
It’s good to see your not selling out Stacy. And BTW, I’d love you a whole lot less is you did sell out though I am no bot.
My critique of Max&Stacy’s climate change coverage would be, a dearth of solution discussion.
Akin to memories of riding my 88 hurricane 600(what a lovely balanced girl she was), and seeing riders with target fixation.
http://www.motorvike.com/MotoChat_Target_Fixation.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETT39gPGCps&NR=1
@Bel-Ami
I would call it: “Rockafella Cocksuckerz”
is it me or is the discussion more like a mud wrestling here…
To all and also Max and stacy. I like a debate somehow I don;t think this has anything to do with a debate…
It is more name calling and yelling I’m right..no I’m right…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRXZ1B5foE&feature=player_embedded
If CO2 is a blessing then oil and coal companies are doing us a favor. I always thought it great serendipity that such a useful, abundant and energy packed fuel would also create plant food as it is burned. You want a hydrogen economy? We already have one since carbon is a very efficient way to store hydrogen.
Here we go again hot head ally :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11144742
SEC Refuses To Sue Moody’s Over Computer “Glitch” Which Inflated Ratings By 1.5-3.5 Notches On Thousands Of CDOs
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sec-refuses-sue-moodys-over-computer-glitch-which-inflated-ratings-15-35-notches-thousands-c
Coding error my foot !
Nice Gold Chart from Casey Research ( bottom of page )
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCdd.php?id=524
@Talcott
Yep, “Target Fixation” also a problem for WOI&II plane fighters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pov-j4b6YY
@Bel-Ami
Yes no “free market” of course we all know this. The state is the enabler for fascism on the right and the left. This is my beef with the left, they only see fascism on the right. Stupid, slavery comes from the State as the enabler right and left. What you and Max forget is that 90% of global oil production is state owned and the largest beneficiary is the State. The real gangster.
As for Coburn, whatever he is, happens to not be part of the facts I posted. The only reference to him is that Pacific Environmental got Stimulus money to lobby Russians, an undisputed fact. Did you even read the link, no. You did what all nonthinkiners do, select a name and attack it enabling ignorance. That is fine, that is what many on the left (and right) do, ignore the facts and create a smear target rather than to address them in a reasoned way. It is the new discourse, emotive logic… a gold star for participation.
So, did Pacific Environmental get Stimulus money or do you deny that fact?
If you deny it, you are factually wrong.
If you accept it, Coburn is entirely irrelevant. Yet you use him to smear.
Either way, you are intellectually dishonest.
@Tao
The debate seems religious to me not because of the specific genesis of the politics on either side. It’s the intransigence of the participants.
A search on Google shows huge changes in the models over time, whole new chunks of code added. A mature model set will not be undergoing major revisions this late. So I conclude the whole modeling project may be beyond human ingenuity. I have an old Meteo degree that gives me some grounding in the physics, and you can find articles like this one:
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2028
A lot is said here in this piece from Yale about the continual ‘tweaking’ of the model to ‘match’ data. I’m not sure that suggests they’re accomplishing anything if that’s what they have to do.
Again, climate modeling is more complex than economic modeling, and those simpler models don’t work well either. It seems lost on people that the level of complexity of a problem _does_ matter.
Some things as Kurt Godel once said, are not computable.
@Talcott,
“My critique of Max&Stacy’s climate change coverage would be, a dearth of solution discussion.”
That’s a fair point. I’m not a fan of cap-and-trade, primarily because Goldman Sachs is, but other than investing in clean/green technologies, to provide an alternative to oil and coal, I don’t know what other solutions are lurking out there. I suppose there are subsidies that can be stripped away . . .
@Bel-ami,
“Yes no “free market” of course we all know this. The state is the enabler for fascism on the right and the left. This is my beef with the left, they only see fascism on the right.”
Totalitarianism and authoritarianism can both occur on both the right and the left, but fascism has been distinctly on the right. Another way to put it is that fascism is a particular species of totalitarianism/authoritarianism that is distinctly anti-liberal, anti-intellectual and pro-corporate.
@Dedo:
I think I found Mike King!
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/westpalmbeat/2010/08/pro-frankel-comments-posted-on-pbpost-stories-from-city-hall/comment-page-1/#comment-6253
Some excerpts from the article, The limits of Modeling”
Lenny Smith, an American statistician now working on climate modeling at the London School of Economics in the United Kingdom, is fearful. “Our models are being over-interpreted and misinterpreted,” he says. “They are getting better; I don’t want to trash them. But policy-makers think we know much more than we actually know. We need to drop the pretense that they are nearly perfect.”
There are two areas of concern. First, how accurate are the global models at mimicking atmospheric processes? And second, are they capable of zooming in on particular areas to give reliable pictures of the future where you live?
Nobody much doubts that greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide accumulating in the atmosphere will cause warming. It would be a contradiction of 200 years of physics if they did not. But exactly how much warming will occur — and how it will be distributed across the globe and impact other climatic features like rainfall — depends on feedbacks in the climate system, the oceans, and the natural carbon cycle. The influence of some of these feedbacks is much less clear.
One big issue is the influence of clouds. The models are pretty hopeless at predicting future cloud cover. And we can’t even be sure whether, overall, extra clouds would warm or cool the planet. (Clouds may cool us in the day, but will usually keep us warm at night.) In the language of Donald Rumsfeld, we would call this problem a “known unknown.”
This uncertainty at the heart of the models seems surprising when the predictions of most global climate models seem to be in agreement. For more than a decade they have estimated that a doubling of carbon dioxide in the air will warm the world by between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees Celsius.
Some experts think the consensus of the models is bogus. “The modelers tend to tweak them to align them. The process is very incestuous,” one leading British analyst on uncertainty in models told me.
These are serious charges. But the custodians of the big models say this is really a communications problem between them and the outside world. Gavin Schmidt of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, which runs one of the world’s top climate models, says modelers themselves have a “tacit knowledge” of the uncertainties inherent in their work. But this knowledge rarely surfaces in public discussions, resulting in “an aura of exactitude that can be misleading.”
This might not matter too much if politicians and policymakers had a healthily skeptical view of climate models. But most do not, a meeting of modelers held in Oxford heard in February. Policymakers often hide behind models and modelers, using them to claim scientific probity for their actions. One speaker likened modern climate modelers to the ancient oracles. “They are part of the tradition of goats’ entrails and tea leaves. They are a way of objectifying advice, cloaking sensible ideas in a false aura of scientific certainty.”
Acting on the findings of Shukla’s panel, modelers from around the world met at the summit in Reading in May to “prepare a blueprint to launch a revolution in climate prediction.” They said that to meet the demands for reliable local forecasts they needed more than a thousand times more computing power than they currently have, and called for the establishment of a new billion-dollar global climate modeling center, a “Manhattan Project for climate,” to deliver the goods.
That’s a few excerpts again the link:
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2028
The Limits of Climate Modeling
@Tao
you are splitting heirs..
The state is essentially a “CORPORATION”
Hemp, Moore Trees, newer less damaging and deadly fuels, alternative sources of energy, and products (such petroleum based ones) no more foreign oil, shutting down huge conglomerates and corporations, putting tress and other natural sources of carbon sucking and oxygen releasing in those HUGE lots they so desire to build unneeded houses on, BANG, problem solved. Now stop with the carbon fears and phobia, and THINK for once instead of arguing who’s right and who’s wrong. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
Oh, and also, Yes Pakistan and Afghanistan are under water right now…. DUE TO FLOODING. It’s not like the ocean permanently swallowed all their land and there is now no going back, countries that have been flooded due to excessive rain or dam releases/damages recover, and actually do a good job at it. Especially when they are farm and agriculture based countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan.
There’s a lot of verbiage there, and people probably are burned out this afternoon on this, but the article points to the same constraints I’ve been talking about.
“Some experts think the consensus of the models is bogus. “The modelers tend to tweak them to align them. The process is very incestuous,” one leading British analyst on uncertainty in models told me.”
This is my point.
@Mark Lytle,
You make some good points on the climate models. What I have noticed is that science is discovering new climate variables all the time. For instance cloud formation is affected by cosmic rays but is is also affected by biological causes such as pollen and DMSO released by sea life. I pretty well buy into the Gaia Hypothesis except I believe in supernatural intervention.
Folks need to chill and concern themselves with what they are responsible for and not fret about the climate.
@Beard
Yes, I think you’re right…
All Over The World Governments Are Banning Large Cash Transactions – End Of Cash http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-death-of-cash-all-over-the-world-governments-are-banning-large-cash-transactions
Dutch Supermarkets are running a trade test early next year to see whether it’s possible to totally eliminate cash payments. (google trans from Dutch) http://tinyurl.com/3xflkut
SEC won’t sue Moody’s over credit-rating snafu http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sec-wont-sue-moodys-over-credit-rating-snafu-2010-08-31
The Securities and Exchange Commission investigated whether Moody’s committed fraud by giving certain debt instruments a higher credit rating than they deserved. Yet the SEC declined to bring charges, citing “jurisdictional” uncertainty.
The SEC probe stems from an incident in 2007 in which a Moody’s analyst discovered the firm had given higher ratings than warranted to certain complex debt instruments issued in Europe.
Even though the error was detected, Moody’s decided not to lower or downgrade the debt in question on concerns it would hurt the firm’s reputation, according to the SEC.
@WL
Fascism is a Right Wing Phenomena–The Societ Union was not a Socialist nor a Communist(Marxist) state–it was a dictatorship of a party over the people–During Stalin’s rule it degenerated to pure Dictatorship—So to state Leftist states and Socialism—i.e. states which benefit the people—as “Fascist” is an erroneous and quite modern brand of propaganda–Just as the Nazis weren’t above using Socialist in their party name–They were not Socialist at all. It was a kleptocratic government of fascists who set up a war economy and extorted monies and blood from the German people.
Secondly, a small point about Stimulus going to Pacific Environmental does not in any way disprove any Global Warming arguments. Was your post illustrative of the same leap you criticized me for??
SEC Refuses To Sue Moody’s Over Computer “Glitch” Which Inflated Ratings By 1.5-3.5 Notches On Thousands Of CDOs http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sec-refuses-sue-moodys-over-computer-glitch-which-inflated-ratings-15-35-notches-thousands-c
In other words, while the SEC is a toothless, gutless, corrupt POS, others may take offense to this lack of responsible action and sue Moody’s directly. And what is the reason for the SEC investigation? Why, a computer “glitch”, which “inadvertently” raised the ratings of various CDOs by up to 3.5 notches! Housing Wire notes: “The SEC inquiry stems from allegations that a Moody’s computer coding error improved, “by 1.5 to 3.5 notches,” the credit ratings for certain debt obligation notes.” Yet having been caught with its pants down was not enough for Moody’s to actually fix the “glitch” – “shortly thereafter during a meeting in Europe, a Moody’s rating committee voted against taking responsive rating action, in part because of concerns that doing so would negatively impact Moody’s business reputation.” And people are surprised that wholesale market manipulation occurs on a day to day basis, with the ongoing blessing of the SEC…
@Frances,…LOL,..Mike Katz huh!,.. Ask him why he hasn’t finished part 3 of his essay at financialsense.com,…I’m still waiting : )
Tyler Durden:”Calling this robotic farce a shitshow is an insult to shit and to show”
Victory For The Fed As 10K Holds; Volume Surges On Unchanged Market http://www.zerohedge.com/article/victory-fed-10k-holds-volume-surges-unchanged-market
@WL.
“you are splitting heirs..”
If you meant “hairs,” my response is: no, I’m being precise.
One of the reasons that people have a hard time communicating these days is that too many of us are sloppy in our thinking and in our language. As a result, we often think we agree when we don’t and vice versa.
“The state is essentially a “CORPORATION”
There are a number of differences between states and corporations, but for the sake of having fun with libertarians/neoliberals, I’ll agree with you and ask them why if the state is bad, why aren’t corporations?
@Tao
WL Pulled my quote and added the “left and right wing fascism”—I agree with you—Fascism is a right wing, corporatist alliance with the State–Where property and profits usurp rule of law and human rights…Sooner or later the zeal leads to expansionist policies, unlawful wars and the demoralization of the people. It is happening right before our eyes in the US. The War on Terror and its accompanying Patriot Act and Pre-Emptive Invasion is concomitant with a Financial System devoid of Moral Hazard……One crime begs for another. Oil is the life blood of this criminal corpus.
@WL
You made a fair point about me jumping Coburn. But my opinion of him still stands–regardless of whether it has anything to do with Global Warming. BTW He is a denier of Global Warming. So it’s no accident he’d be against Stimulus going to Russians through a Pacific Environmental initiative. But if Global Warming is a Global Crisis what’s the wrong?? The Stimulus Money for the Banks ended up going to several foreign banks….Was he upset about that? He sure does pick and choose his fights.
@Bel-Ami
My previous post had nothing to with disproving climate change or AGW. You would realize that if you actually read it. It is about funding EcoMarxism with US taxpayer funds.
If you dispute any facts presented then go for it.
Fascism. yes a bit fuzzy terminology, I agree. Not all on the right are Fascists nor all on the left. It is not Left/Right but STATE deal. The modern perception is that is a right wing phenomenon, that is false.
Try this little piece by BENITO MUSSOLINI
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm
@Mark Lytle,
I suppose that if somebody started arguing loudly and often that the sun rises in the south and sets in the north, you’d eventually conclude that the people who refused to accept that fantasy as fact were just as intransigent as the contrarians.
What’s your postition on whether the earth is a sphere or flat? There is still a controversy, you know.
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
Here’s a joke.
If the state is a corporation is it a near duty free “person” too?
Corporations have all the rights of a person but little of the duties.
“The State is a Corporation”—>When the state becomes Corporatized you have Fascism. Here we see Libertarianism’s bad faith.
“Funding Eco-Marxism with US Taxpayer funds”
I’d imagine that Eco-Marxism is about funding for alternative energy to decrease carbon based fuel consumption–i.e. a measure to perhaps decrease man made global warming through carbon emissions
It is disingenuous of you to ignore the consequences of the funding and just plaster the label “Eco-Marxism” as an all-disparaging cover.
@Bel-Ami
Perhaps you should research EcoMarxism and then read the WRI report I linked to. You are underinformed.
2010-08-30 Webbot Clif High on TNS http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=176731.msg1096036#msg1096036
Benito Mussolini Quotes…
Given that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority … a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State.
The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporate, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organised in their respective associations, circulate within the State.
The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State — a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values — interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people.
At every hour of every day, I can tell you on which page of which book each school child in Italy is studying.
Yet if anyone cares to read over the now crumbling minutes giving an account of the meetings at which the Italian Fasci di Combattimento were founded, he will find not a doctrine but a series of pointers… It may be objected that this program implies a return to the guilds (corporazioni). No matter!… I therefore hope this assembly will accept the economic claims advanced by national syndicalism.
Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State … Liberalism denied the State in the interests of the particular individual; Fascism reaffirms the State as the true reality of the individual.
@WL
No, I am not “under the influence” of propaganda. In a Globalist World where ecological catastrophes have destroyed the Niger River Basin and the Gulf of Mexico, etc.. No binding agreement was accomplished at the Copenhagen Climate Control Conference–where is the power of this nefarious Eco-Marxist movement??? Has the US tried Alternative Energy sincerely?? Did Cap and Trade even make it to a vote? Was it seriously considered?? Ecomarxism is a phoney bogeyman much like the Global One World Government carbon tax conspiracy. Would miscreants try to profit from Clean Energy Initiatives? No doubt. Corporations profiting from misery and hardship is nothing new–The entire health system in the US is based on profiting from sickness and pain. In lieu of cures it hooks people on pills and long term care for maximum profits. Isn’t that a terrible conspiracy? I guess it’s “private” so it’s alright. Markets can do no wrong–Even when they are subsidized–like Big Oil—by the State.
Stacy not too long ago you were giving out about sceptics replying to your AGW beliefs with the words ‘Al Gore’. I think you made a fair point, so don’t be such a hypocrite and say ‘Koch’ every time a sceptic publishes an opinion or fact that doesnt find favour with you.
Mussolini was a Journalist. The quote you posted shows a complete ignorance of the 19th Century on Planet Earth. The 19th Century in Europe was a time of Constitutional Monarchy and Dynastic Empires. France began as an Empire in 1804 and then descended back into a Bourbon Monarchy. In 1830 King Charles X was deposed for the “Citizen King” Louis Phillipe(Duc D’Orleans)–In 1848 Louis Philippe fell. Then France was a Republic which lasted almost 5 years until Louis Napoleon began the Second Empire. England at the time had a Constitutional Monarchy with Parliament and an Empire–Hardly Liberal, Democratic or Socialist. The US in the 19th Century could hardly be described as Liberal or Democratic when African Americans were slaves until 1865 and didn’t have civil rights for the entirety and women had no suffrage. Name one Socialist government in the 19th Century. Name one Liberal Government. ZERO. Not one on the entire globe! India and China were both under Colonial Rule for most of the 19th Century and Russia under the Tsars. Mussolini was writing nonsense. Mussolini’s quote is completely devoid of any knowledge of the 19th Century on this planet. His prophecies for the 20th century were equally as absurd.
It’s especially galling that an Italian wouldn’t know that his very own nation was largely under the rule of the French Empire and Austrian Empire for the majority of the 19th Century–Only in 1861 did Victor Emmanuel II become KING of a united Italy. Italians called him “Padre della Patria”.
I am criticizing the post you quoted, allegedly by Mussolini, not you.
It’s hard to imagine Mussolini would be so ignorant about the 19th Century.
Forget Iceland. Australia’s a hotter role model for Scotland, says Alex Salmond
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Forget-Iceland-Australia39s-a-hotter.6501564.jp
Bankrupt Miami in Fiscal Emergency, Breaks Employee Contracts, Hikes Property Taxes
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/08/bankrupt-miami-in-fiscal-emergency.html
@Bel-Ami
Remember the terms of reference have changed over time, as well as the distinct European vs US political definitions.
Mussolini often contradicted himself. Re Marxism and Materialism
My contention is..
What we have had in the past is ultra-nationalism which leads to Fascism left or right. Today, we are seeing something new “global fascism”. Today we have not only corporations but a proliferation of pseudo-corporations like unions, NGOs, non profits, special interests, religious groups and advocacy groups. So, Fascism is not just the colluding of the State with Corporations but it is the State colluding with any organisation or pseudo-corporation.
Example
The State (US EPA) has funded groups (WRI) with a corporate connection (Al Gores Global Company) pushing EcoMarxism. (not my term) The global redistribution of wealth through climate debt. Why? To establish a global rentier class. These groups, Corporations and the State benefit from this arrangement and potential power and wealth. FASCISM. No different than the Cheney Halliburton connection.
Patrick Moore… Greenpeace co-founder wrote.. in 1994
The Rise of Eco-Extremism
Two profound events triggered the split between those advocating a pragmatic or “liberal” approach to ecology and the new “zero-tolerance” attitude of the extremists. The first event, mentioned previously, was the widespread adoption of the environmental agenda by the mainstream of business and government. This left environmentalists with the choice of either being drawn into collaboration with their former “enemies” or of taking ever more extreme positions. Many environmentalists chose the latter route. They rejected the concept of “sustainable development” and took a strong “anti-development” stance.
Surprisingly enough the second event that caused the environmental movement to veer to the left was the fall of the Berlin Wall. Suddenly the international peace movement had a lot less to do. Pro-Soviet groups in the West were discredited. Many of their members moved into the environmental movement bringing with them their eco-Marxism and pro-Sandinista sentiments.
These factors have contributed to a new variant of the environmental movement that is so extreme that many people, including myself, believe its agenda is a greater threat to the global environment than that posed by mainstream society. Some of the features of eco-extremism are:
· It is anti-human. The human species is characterized as a “cancer” on the face of the earth. The extremists perpetuate the belief that all human activity is negative whereas the rest of nature is good. This results in alienation from nature and subverts the most important lesson of ecology; that we are all part of nature and interdependent with it. This aspect of environmental extremism leads to disdain and disrespect for fellow humans and the belief that it would be “good” if a disease such as AIDS were to wipe out most of the population.
· It is anti-technology and anti-science. Eco-extremists dream of returning to some kind of technologically primitive society. Horse-logging is the only kind of forestry they can fully support. All large machines are seen as inherently destructive and “unnatural’. The Sierra Club’s recent book, “Clearcut: the Tradgedy of Industrial Forestry”, is an excellent example of this perspective. “Western industrial society” is rejected in its entirety as is nearly every known forestry system including shelterwood, seed tree and small group selection. The word “Nature” is capitalized every time it is used and we are encouraged to “find our place” in the world through “shamanic journeying” and “swaying with the trees”. Science is invoked only as a means of justifying the adoption of beliefs that have no basis in science to begin with.
· It is anti-organization. Environmental extremists tend to expect the whole world to adopt anarchism as the model for individual behavior. This is expressed in their dislike of national governments, multinational corporations, and large institutions of all kinds. It would seem that this critique applies to all organizations except the environmental movement itself. Corporations are critisized for taking profits made in one country and investing them in other countries, this being proof that they have no “allegiance” to local communities. Where is the international environmental movements allegiance to local communities? How much of the money raised in the name of aboriginal peoples has been distributed to them? How much is dedicated to helping loggers thrown out of work by environmental campaigns? How much to research silvicultural systems that are environmentally and economically superior?
· It is anti-trade. Eco-extremists are not only opposed to “free trade” but to international trade in general. This is based on the belief that each “bioregion” should be self-sufficient in all its material needs. If it’s too cold to grow bananas – - too bad. Certainly anyone who studies ecology comes to realize the importance of natural geographic units such as watersheds, islands, and estuaries. As foolish as it is to ignore ecosystems it is adsurd to put fences around them as if they were independent of their neighbours. In its extreme version, bioregionalism is just another form of ultra-nationalism and gives rise to the same excesses of intolerance and xenophobia.
· It is anti-free enterprise. Despite the fact that communism and state socialism has failed, eco-extremists are basically anti-business. They dislike “competition” and are definitely opposed to profits. Anyone engaging in private business, particularly if they are sucessful, is characterized as greedy and lacking in morality. The extremists do not seem to find it necessary to put forward an alternative system of organization that would prove efficient at meeting the material needs of society. They are content to set themselves up as the critics of international free enterprise while offering nothing but idealistic platitudes in its place.
· It is anti-democratic. This is perhaps the most dangerous aspect of radical environmentalism. The very foundation of our society, liberal representative democracy, is rejected as being too “human-centered”. In the name of “speaking for the trees and other species” we are faced with a movement that would usher in an era of eco-fascism. The “planetary police” would “answer to no one but Mother Earth herself”.
· It is basically anti-civilization. In its essence, eco-extremism rejects virtually everything about modern life. We are told that nothing short of returning to primitive tribal society can save the earth from ecological collapse. No more cities, no more airplanes, no more polyester suits. It is a naive vision of a return to the Garden of Eden.
Denial Junkies
clogging the arteries of Mother Earth,
Consumer Junkies
Living a dearth – of reason.
Supply is not endless,
Eventually poison, abuse, wounds and sickness
create a febrile convulsion- a temperature rise of magnitudes as yet unseen.
And in one great gulp – she swallows the pride of the countless parasites who suck her blood and cause her to scratch in agony let loose……
Junkies in Denial,
The day ends,
The final fix spends,lends,trends,defends,recomends,
Then Bends – truth.
Junkies in Denial
Your lunacy is on Trial.
“Folks need to chill and concern themselves with what they are responsible for and not fret about the climate.” F. Beard
Yep.
The problem isn’t carbon, or global warming, or rising seas. If anything, these are symptoms of a broken system. The problem is anyone who would obfuscate what should be obvious for personal gain. If a person knows what their responsibility is, it is much easier for them to act responsibly.
Thoughtful action by cooperation with the best knowledge of a situation, is responsible. Reliable sources of information are essential to rational decision making. Relying solely on emotions to weather this global storm is a rudderless operation.
Global climate is a secondary issue: a diversion from the primary issue. To try to fix the planet without fixing ourselves is hypocrisy.
All I can see is mankind is mismanaging the earth not to well. I don’t know if its just a clustersnuck going on of different ideas getting in everyones way. Or is it a few people have taken control of the earth through corporations and are mismanaging the quality of life on earth horribly.
@WL,
Contemplating your “splitting heirs” comment earlier, one thing for you to consider is whether “collectivism” and “individualism” are truly distinct and separable. The only way that you can argue that fascism is socialism is if you define both as forms of collectivism, which is true enough.
But what is libertarianism as neoliberalism, a movement in which a group of individuals have collected to create a political movement? What is the Tea Party “movement”? Aren’t the both examples of collectivism? (Indeed, I’d argue that the Tea Party’s anti-liberal, anti-intellectual bent puts it firmly on the road to true fascism.)
Collectivism is inseparable from the human condition. Hating collectivism is hating yourself. The real question is how is the collectivism of a nation is manifested. To equate harmful manifestations of collectivism with positive manifestations of it is pathological.
Did someone say Zombies??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8VO0385n5w&feature=related
Max. Global warming ain’t just gonna happen in Pakistan so ya better buy a pair of shorts and sandals ’cause it’s gonna git hot.
Does the mmgw debate signify the first great cause of our nascent secular humanist religion? Why does Adolf H always come to mind, he would be so jealous. The deniers are antiquated sell-out degenerates, who are willing to trade off the very ground they stand on for a degree of advantage. What will be the solution?
@Tao
Pathological?
We must be on the same page with collectivism and the context. No doubt collectivism can benefit the group, but it can be harmful to the individual. There is the rub, your absolutism brings up an obvious marginalization technique. Namely. that collectivism is all bad or individualism is all bad. Clearly, there is a role for any group to advance itself through a “collective”. Are wall street bankers a collective or OPEC, the K K K, Congress? Collectivism is an abstract tool that is kept in check by maintaining the rights of the individual. If not, the collective grants or removes the rights of individual at their rulers discretion. I don’t hate collectivism but rather what elitist can do with it. Primarily, to destroy the individual through coercion. It is a tool for absolute power. Years ago, I worked in a government union where nobody advances and they are just doing time. Individual initiative and work ethic was discouraged, “Don’t make us look bad by working hard” mentality. A zombie collective of despair even though the pay was double the private sector. We would do 2 hrs work in an 8 hour day, who cares the government is paying and you can never get fired if everyone does the same. The only way to get a job there was if you had the right connections. It was a nightmare.
Destroy the individual, you destroy humanity. It is absolutism that is pathological.
Since your reading Jekyll Island
Edward Griffin – Collectivism and Individualism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6276223916862531753#
@WL & @Bel-Ami,
Why don’t you to just start your own blog site elsewhere. Your just to the point of rambling on and wasting space here. Take it outside.
@WL
“Remember the terms of reference have changed over time, as well as the distinct European vs US political definitions.”
Oddly the anti-Democratic and fascist propaganda machine often labels any reform aimed at aiding the people “socialist”, “marxist” and “anti-free-enterprise”. Child Labor Laws, Worker Safety, 8 hour work days, Social Security, Civil Rights legislation were all attacked with the same terms and ginned up fears of the sheeple by the mega-rich standing up for “free enterprise”. Would it be counterintuitive to state the rape of entire ecosystems by Big Oil, Natural Gas Fracking and Coal Mining “Eco-extremism”? How about birth defects occurring in Iraq at record numbers due to the US use of depleted uranium munitions in the War?
The terms of reference have not changed. The use of them by ideologues with agendas has. When a stalwart friend of Banks, Corporations and War Contractors like President Obama is called a “Socialist” the terms are not used in any sense of reference. Like the talking heads calling Iraq a “victory”. It is Orwellian You confuse propaganda with reality. Al Gore is a major shareholder in Occidental Oil. He has never been close to Socialism in anything. He dabbled with Fascism when he pushed PMRC. Rest assured when he backs any cause it’s for his own gain. He also used to be a “proud Tobacco farmer” as a Senator from Tennessee. Only when he ran for VP did he make a tearful speech about rejecting tobacco(who always was a major funder of his campaigns, along with Big Oil) and vowing to fight it for “the rest of my life” at his Sister’s death bed. She died of cancer. The entire speech was a fabrication because he made the “proud Tobacco farmer” statement–”used to staple it”–after his sister’s death
The real Eco-Extremism is neo-Malthusian paranoia about exploding populations and resource scarcity.The Global Elite back an early plank of Fascism—Lebensraum–Living Space for resource enjoyment–And create finance and trade agreements to capture resources. These resources are secured by Military expansion. This is not socialist at all because it benefits a few and leaves the majority behind. G20 nations consume the majority of world’s resources while being a small minority of the population. China itself presents, within itself, a model for the world. The majority of the people are poor and work in inhuman conditions for low wages as the elite form a crony class. Sounds like a Global Centralization–What is Globalism but the class war made worldwide? Indebted slaves working for pennies supplying goods and services to a Global Rentier Elite.
I gave up when you posted a quote that combined the “Eco-Extremism” with the Sandinistas. Yes, Daniel Ortega is the man behind the curtain of Global Warming theory. Patrick Moore denies reality. Has free enterprise been stopped from destroying the Niger River Basin, Gulf of Mexico? In fact the world’s environment policies are more and more refuting Moore’s fears that Eco-Extremism drives fascism when the exact opposite is the case. Free Enterprise is creating a world of exploitation and rape of ecosystems for the the benefits of a wealthy few. Landfills and garbage dumps are built around poor neighborhoods in the US. Just like Prisons and Chemical Plants. The rich never see them. Look at New Orleans–gentrification occurred from draining the wet lands by building a canal titled “Mr. Go” for Big Oil to transport resources to ports. This along with the failure to update levies led to Katrina being a man-made disaster. The wetlands and stronger levees would have saved New Orleans from flooding. A section of the city above sea level, the 9th Ward, became a lake. Again–the Eco-Extremism was created by “Free Enterprise”. The Ecologists and Environmentalists lost and New Orleans was nearly destroyed. Irony that the area suffered another environmental attack from “Free Enterprise” with the BP Oil spill and its cover ran by the EPA(who colluded with them to hide real data about the amount of oil spilled and the true amount of Corexit used.) I don’t see the forces of Environmentalism winning on any front–I do see Ecological Disasters created by “Free Enterprise” backed by Governments all over the globe.
Mussolini was born in the 19th century and became a prime minister of his country alongside King Victor Emmanuel III.
The complete ignorance, tantamount to the denial of reality in early 20th Century Italy too, of the history of the 19th century in his own country is a sign of willful distortion, not self contradiction.
Please offer an example of Christopher Walter’s clownmanship which renders him unfit to make a valid comment on climate science. Sure, he’s always one to ham-it-up, but that’s his style. The very same thing could be said about Max’s style – eccentric, hyperbolic at times and entertaining for it. The reality is that Walter would easily account for any member of the clergy from the church of AGW. Being a highly educated man with an excellent aptitude for mathematics, he knows his material and is very familiar with all the books of the Climate Science TM bible. He was on the winning team in a recent climate change debate at Oxford’s famous debating society, so he’s no lightweight. Name calling is the childish last resort of those who have no hope of beating the man’s arguments. He’d happily debate anyone on the subject, on any platform and under any conditions. Sadly, there aren’t many who are game enough to take him on – I suppose public embarrassment isn’t everyone’s thing – just ask John Abraham. It’s amazing to see such a large number of people who have very strong opinions on a topic which they know very little about. The scare is over. Next!
@Bel-Ami – good post. “You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I’ll tell you what his ‘pinions is.” (see the full Mark Twain essay at http://grammar.about.com/od/classicessays/a/cornponetwain.htm )
@WL.
“There is the rub, your absolutism brings up an obvious marginalization technique.”
Not my absolutism, Hayek’s and Mises’ absolutism. Indeed, they and their libertarian followers (like Margaret Thatcher) argued that there is no society (i.e., collective) there is only a collection of individuals.
I argue that individualism and collectivism are both necessary part of human existence, that finding the proper balance between the self and society is imperative and proper.
@maxkeiser The US is a matrix of lies. BP has a nice colorful logo but is acting like a war machine fully deployed among Americans. They are not the only group deployed their. The operation once disguised will be referred to as chemical warfare.
I was also a broker and principal in the securities industry when you were. found myself in the middle of the financing of the Rio Casino and go a good look at business made in the USA.
I was assessed 70 k in taxes in 1986 and read Israel was gifted 3 billion that year. I vacated the land of Crosby Stills and Nash and moved to Canada.
You and Stacey are totally right on the money in your deductive reasoning moments. How can I send you an email directly regards soemthing very important that is also going on in your new home town, besides Las Vegas, Calgary and Milan etc???
@ WL
You have managed to get through an impressive list of damning connections and references, giving Stazi a healthy dose of her own medicine. The ultimate would be to find something of this nature on Marx & Stazi, something that might explain the disconnect and the glaring loss of brain power when they come to this crimnal enterprise of global warmmongering.
Dear Max and Stacy
Not interested in publishing my humble comment from the other day?
I love your work! Please tell me if it’s too long or not concise enough or perhaps devoid of logic.
Sincerely
Malcolm Short
HOBART TASMANIA