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ref. max keiser – Get 6 mo’s free storage
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Rick Ackerman-
- Michael Hudson
- Karl Denninger – Market Ticker
- The Big Picture
- Mish
- David Morgan
- King World News
- SmartKnowledge
- GoldCore
fiat money and the french revolution
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crash banksters – Buy Silver & gold
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.weblinks247.com/indexes/idx24_usd_en_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/silver/t24_ag_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/gold/t24_au_en_usoz_2.gif)
![[Most Recent Quotes from www.kitco.com]](http://www.kitconet.com/charts/metals/platinum/t24_pt_en_usoz_2.gif)
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You got that right. There is nothing as good as Gold. It is the ultimate currency.
http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/
WRONG! University of Texas con. See “silvergoldsilver”
http://silvergoldsilver.blogspot.com/2011/04/connecting-dots-on-university-of-texas.html
So many sites including Max are spreading this story without checking the facts!
Max, do you have a cold in this hot weather in Eruope ?
Hey Max, perhaps it might be worth looking into the U of Texas actually buying GLD and NOT physical..?
http://silvergoldsilver.blogspot.com/2011/04/connecting-dots-on-university-of-texas.html
The back and fourth takes between the two of you in the first five minutes of each show are priceless. Keep that up!
@ George Sign
Which “facts” are you talking about that conflicts with what guys like Max, SGS and Turd Ferguson think?
@max
oh no… you so wrong…. blyth is a honey…. oh dat evil woman could make me reave arr six wives…. sometime me walk by her brock in tribeca and I tink,”take your sexy self out of dat parace and bend over on de sidewalk you beautiful creature you”
@max
me certain de stacy make a good kip soup, but you need de special jimmy noodles from de dead horse noodle palace and casino…. it cure everyting
Check the SLA in New York and also how we are all TERRORISTS now in the USA. Very neat stuff….
Who is a Threat? Janet Napolitano
Sounds like you need some colloidal silver, Max.
Get well!
@Haole Silvergoldsilver is the only site that has done the homework.
It looks very much like U of Texas has NOT really taken delivery.
The “turd” and “silvergoldsilver are the only sites that seem to talk real sense.
Max is just a publicist and soap-box operator. He’s a good one though but unfortunately never checks to carefully if the “story” suits his angle.
Silver and gold is the only money the elite rely on.
Chicken soup with noodles. That’s what I like.
Cesium-134 in Northern California topsoil more than double previous test
http://enenews.com/cesium-134-level-northern-california-topsoil-250-previous-test
Of course, this means that good food world wide will just get rarer and more expensive.
@ George Sign
Thanks for the clarification and input, I thought you were disputing SGS and Turd initially.
U of Texas buying GLD and not real gold, amazing.
Cheers!
Government issues Easter weekend ‘smog alert’
The Government has issued a ”smog alert” for the Easter weekend with high levels of pollution expected across England and Wales
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/8466673/Government-issues-Easter-weekend-smog-alert.html
Of course, it’s a nice way of NOT talking about radiation levels.
i.e. what abouzt the Radiation POLLUTION ?
I got 6 one oz coins yesterday at the local Fla. boot sale.
One has a chopper motorbike stamp.
I got 3 @ $46 and 3 @ $48
Those are the last coins I expect I will ever pay less than $50 for.
Winning!!!
@ Stacy cook the Chicken soup in some of that fancy French collodial silver water.
BUT! if you’re so anti-libertarian why aren’t you bashing Ron Paul? Just because the K Bro’s streaked the libertarian movement doesn’t mean you need to talk about their wieners for 6 months. It makes you’re liberalism look weak and cheap. Talk about the people libertarians actually respect, like Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Celente, Jesse Ventura or Peter Schiff.
You’re knee-jerk reaction to label the philosophical principles of a movement as being inline with whichever morons streaked it is just dumb. All movements have hijackers and streakers. Focusing on them to label the entire group makes you look like CNN or Fox. You’re obviously a victim of Fox and CNN astroturf propaganda.
@ Gino
What are you on about?
That link does not work.
I got my Keisers a month ago.
@George Sign – You can believe whatever made up stories you want, but the flimsy argument from Silver Gold makes no sense. There are loads of conspiracies that are real and you should spend more time on those. The person writing that article you link to has no idea who Kyle Bass is in terms of position on gold and should do a bit more reading about what he was saying about the importance of physical years ago. These are allocated gold bars Univ of Texas has had delivered to a Comex vault; HSBC can lend out unallocated gold, it cannot do that with allocated gold.
Dutch telecom firm KPN to cut 4,000-5,000 jobs between 2011 and 2015 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Dutch-telecom-firm-KPN-cut-4-afp-1445010678.html
“We face negative trends in The Netherlands,” executive director Eelco Blok said in the statement.
Sarcasm on
Well if the gold was delivered to a Comex vault it must really be there…
Sarcasm off
And anyone who has actually read Ayn Rand would know that Greenspan led a career 180 opposite to her principles after having been seduced by the Fed’s power of central planning by fiat.
Maybe I should bash Max and Stacy for being wrong on every front, because they are astro-turfurs; part of a liberal movement led by Obama and George Soros. Does that sound intelligent? Just paying you back in your own currency.
@Haole – believe in the dollar all you want, the move by Univ of Texas into physical gold is a sign of things to come
@Zach OBrien – you make no sense
@Stacey
What gives you the impression that Haole “believes” in the dollar ? Or are you just being defensive?
@selfhatingsheeple – he’s attempting to defend the dollar against those who seek to protect themselves from its collapse by spreading disinfo about those who are actually successfully protecting themselves; he’s saying that resistance is futile and impossible when it is not
Wow, Stacey posting to me!? I’m honored luv, sincerely.
I don’t believe in the dollar at all.
Nor do I believe the the Comex, HSBC, U of Texas’s fund CEO, etc. with regards to that much real physical gold being held. Guys like Turd and SGS aren’t just some conspiracy hack BS dispensers…
I do not trust the paper gold market in the least and that is what the Comex, HSBC, etc. represent to a large extent, no?
Thanks Stacey!
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/4/20_James_Turk.html
Hmmm … if someone says that the Gold is at Comex, who’s that someone?
It all seems like speculation to me. There don’t seem to be any hard facts from either side on this argument…
Attempting to “defend the dollar”!?
Was I that misunderstood?
Pure defense using baseless assumptions me thinks.
I’m not a yank and the dollar is gasping like a beached fish. If people want to believe the Comex, HSBC and some university talking head about that much physical gold being held then be my guest.
why are ameriKans so fricken stupid? zorro or someone said, we the people of the USSA are like “mushrooms” kept in the dark and fed shit. you really made the tea baggers look bad today, good interview, butt it was like smacked in the face with tube steak.
Max,
I hope you get well soon. I lost my voice about 3 years ago and it was awful. Thankfully, I got it back.
As for fake libertarians, there is nothing libertarian about a government enforced monopoly money supply for private debts. THAT is the lynch-pin of the kleptocracy’s power. Abolish that and they must fall as the private sector discovers it can create its own money supplies interest-free rather than rent someone else’s.
Arnold Schwarzenegger Is Thinking About Running For President…Of Europe http://www.businessinsider.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-president-europe-2011-4
True Stacy, Max sounds terrible. He must be overworking! He actually needs some Benelin Max Strength!
Are the KOCH brothers connected to Ron Paul?
That’s a pretty cheap way out Stacy.
looks like stacy got her feathers ruffled, give’em hell girl.
I make no sense to you because you’re a liberal.
@ Zach-O
You dont make sense to Stacy because YOU got it wrong.
NASA | SDO Year One http://youtu.be/U_MKL_fjDLo
Since you’re logic is LIbertarians = Koch Brothers and are therefore stupid,
my using your logic would follow liberals = Omama, and are therefore stupid.
Since you pick and chose the leaders of, and the definition of philosophical moments, and make sweeping value statements, aren’t I also allowed?
@ Zach O’Brien
You say:
“And anyone who has actually read Ayn Rand would know that Greenspan led a career 180 opposite to her principles after having been seduced by the Fed’s power of central planning by fiat.”
What does this actually mean? Greenspan is one of the greatest Randian acolytes out there, as is ever other Fed chairman. They care about the profit of the rich BEFORE the good of the country and in doing so they follow Rand to the nth degree. You honestly don’t make any sense. The only CENTRAL PLANNING the FED does is to foreign bank accounts in the Cayman Islands and Belize. It does not plan for the good of the state – something you would clearly be against. Rather it benefits a select few; those, in particular, who are obsessed with power, privilege, and most of all, money!
Poot try to build a foundation behind you’re little ass kissing statement. I’ll give you a hammer. Why am I wrong?
“He actually needs some Benelin Max Strength!”
Fuck big pharma The only thing that ever worked when I had a dicky throat was garlic – raw . Thats what you go into a bank with – garlic and silver.
God I hate banks
Omega when Greenspan was espousing Rand principles he was also a staunch proponent of a gold backed currency. Want to bash sound money just because he supported it before going against it as well? Or should I bash you? Since you’re a proponent of Greenspans’ old sound money principles?
You’re looking uneducated and foolish. Do you want me to send you a copy of Atlas Shrugged so you can even walk on the playing field in the future?
@Zach OBrien – just because you’re stupid doesn’t mean you are libertarian or a Kochbot; I am too busy to have to explain to every moron on the planet the difference between an astroturf group and a grassroots group; between a billionaire who finances astroturfing and a billionaire who donates to grassroots groups; and what makes you think the Koch brothers are libertarian? Ron Paul is libertarian, they are not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdUUNF1bOIo
Listening to me might take you to where I am going.
Max, Hope you get better soon. Saw your transcendental experience for the second time and was thankful that the camera can catch such precious moments as these, truly inspirational. Finally sent $30 (U.S.) to Resonance 104.4, but wasn’t able to attach a note referring to the purpose of the donation, wanted to let them know that it was for TAM, your radio show, but I’ve heard that their programing is towards the Good Cause, so may it flourish this. The dialog with Taki Oldham was really well done, I’m watching it again. SLA, hold to your guns, a few more ounces are on our side. Wish I could afford a huge brick like some of the cats here….
New interesting video by Chris.
This guy is real bright ! Please Max and Stacy. Invite him on your show.
http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/2011/04/texas-gold-rush-mike-maloney-meet-up-on.html
Omega, Rand’s ideal world would not have a Federal Reserve to empower a criminal banking enterprise. Read the book dude, until then I’m arguing with children. Stacy included.
@Stacy… good home made chicken soup…with crusty French bread …
Something changed in my opinion with dollar and silver over the last month or so I never fancied silver but changed me mind as it behaviour changed, I wish i was a faster learner but hay lMAO, I was always scared of its volatility and thought of the bull trap but unlike gold they the them them over there lol seem to have lost the grip on silver, so i realised just a paper tiger…YAZOO nothing to fear at all..
Silver like a fast motorcycle, hard to catch
Gold like a train…they do still influence the speed with touch of the costly hot brake
.will it come down naaaa there only paper promises.. no where to go.. no where its a choice between:
Over priced land ..real estate?
Appreciating metals….on there way to currency status… hush hush quick quick
Dodgy bonds…well see what the GOV did to there OWN people what next lol?
or Stocks, here everyone left the casino or something I read? No Plunge allowed etc mmmm another real cock up ..everything already broken its just people are still blind to it..poor sods
Ron Paul is libertarian, they are not. de rovery Stacy
Not quite. RP conflates liberty with shiny metals. That’s like someone conflating God with a golden idol.
RP wishes to abolish the capital gains tax ONLY on PMs. But what about abolishing it all together so that common stock and anything else can be used as a private money form?
RP needs to wise up. Liberty does not require PMs. Liberty requires liberty. Period.
Stacy, Ron Paul was behind the Tea Party before the K Bros. So why don’t you bash him?
You Ex-pats think you can speak for everyone in America based on who hijacks their movements and it’s retarded.
Don’t think I forgot when you two were soft on Obama to appease daddy Baldwin. Should I bash you forever for that? Stop with the stupid.
@Zach OBrien – Ayn Rand was a meth head and shows all signs of being so – paranoid, delusional, vindictive and perverse
I was anti Obama before you two knew better.
Rand’s ideal world would not have a Federal Reserve to empower a criminal banking enterprise. Zach OBrien
Ayn Rand’s hero was L.V. Mises who advocated a government enforced gold standard. That’s not libertarian; that fascist since it is government privilege for someone’s favorite shiny metal.
@Zach OBrien – if I belonged to an astroturf group, I would be bitter, too
Stacy, what percentage of my farm do you want? What percentage of my cow’s milk? Aren’t I the evil producer, and you, the awakened intellectual stand with the state to guide me out of the dark of producing things you need to live? (with a hand in my pocket of course)
FBEARD
god IS
GOLD & SILVER
Ayn Rand was a meth head and shows all signs of being so – paranoid, delusional, vindictive and perverse Stacy
I rove you.
But I have done amphetamines (legally) and I was never vindictive.
good thing I watch the Keiser Report twice
1st time listen
2nd time watch
and what a weeks it’s been, first I talked to an insurance agent trying to sell me insurance into investing in silver, then had a resurgence in some old work, now this – I tell ya, does life get any better?
I don’t belong to any group. I’m just calling you guys out on mistaking a corporate sock puppet for entire philosophies and you’re mad about it.
Your currency paid back to you in full = You guys are liberals, Obama’s a liberal, therefore you are stupid.
Just for the record
I think ion rand was a NUT
I like Mises
it appears the radiation poisoning is making folks on edge
So that folks get back on track. WE have to remember who the enemy is. The elite banksters. .
@Haole
I think Stacy must need to get some sleep…. SLV and GLD are paper backed by pretty much nothing – JUST like the dollar. However, “allocated” is supposed to mean something – personally I like to hold it in my hot little hands.
Beard, heavens!!!! what kind of government would enforce a gold standard!!! Perhaps the kind Max and Stacy are calling for!!!
CIA reveals invisible ink recipes used by WWI spies http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13141473
@Zach-0
You have infered ideals into a story that spewes hate for a “class” of people that never existed.
The boogie man is not the Blacks or the Hillbillies or the ditch diggers widdow.
The poor and huddled masses never wanted a hand up or needed it as much as the insiders crooks have held them down and cheated them.
Miss Rand was wrong and so are you.
For the record
Friedman was a gold bug
His son is an anarchist
His grandson is a GENIOUS
What an awesome FAMILY
what kind of government would enforce a gold standard!!! Zach OBrien
The kind that fascists desire, one just big enuff to keep them wealthy and in power.
Perhaps the kind Max and Stacy are calling for!!! Zach OBrien
True. S & M are not libertarian but their vision is not any worse than that of the fascists.
No Poote you’re just oblivious to Rand’s philosophy like Max and Stacy. And you turn to whichever corporate media, or central-banking hack has distorted its image.
Since your Western liberal movement is failing, you’re attacking not the sound philosophy of conservatism, but the caricature liberals have put in front of it. It’s the liberals ego friendly temper tantrum.
But I did save a hundred bucks on car insurance.
SILVER NEW HIGH AT $46.35 http://charts.kitco.com/KitcoCharts/index.jsp
http://www.goldprice.org/spot-gold.html
Study History
Governments control. Gold Standards are only bad if nobody but the top possesses the gold. Nail Broth anyone? I love Ame-Rica. Not as warm as Costa Rica. Hmmm
@selfhatingsheeple – GLD has nothing to do with the Univ of Texas; the only thing they have in common is that HSBC is the vault for both; GLD is not allocated gold, Univ of Texas holds allocated gold in their vault
@ Zach-O
You sir are no Dagney Tagart.
The new Rearden steel has a high silver content.
Now called KeiserSteel.
Put your head on the track.
Can ya hear it comming?
@F. Beard – taking an amphetamine does not make you a meth head; Rand was addicted
Gold Standards are only bad if nobody but the top possesses the gold. PB
Wrong. Government recognition of gold as money is government privilege for usury since PMs, being non-performing assets, REQUIRE usury to generate a return. Common stock, otoh, does not require borrowing or lending, much less at interest.
Common stock is a DEMOCRATIC form of money that shares wealth and power rather than reaps it for the benefit of a few.
In a free market there is no violent enforcement of any currency standard at all. No secret police enforcing one bank or another’s schemes, or one government or another’s fraud.
If you think the US is a free market try to “freely” start a competing currency with the dollar, or go tell the government you intend to conduct commerce in precious metals. I dare you.
So for all you free market bashers…..to what “free markets” are you referring??
You FREAKS who are bashing Stacy don’t fool me. I can see through your mask with my GOLDEN RAY EYES. No real person hates GOLD. You are TROLLS and you shall taste my 金箍棒
齐天大圣／孙悟空
I can see you little IMPS
@stacy
hoping that when when you go to Sweden you’ll have a chance to mention their health care system –
just recently I heard someone talking (can anyone help me locate this video) about the cost of health care in Sweden; was around 10% GDP and in the US it’s upwards around 35% to 40%. We pay more for less.
and those who would argue the FED says we pay between 13% and 17%, that’s just for the insurance not our out of pocket costs.
and just to break this down a bit more, 21% of US insurance is administration fees, add waste, fraud and abuse to the mix you can see that percentage adding up quick.
Again, just like the banks Americans are raked over the coals by greedy insurance corporations whose bottom line is always about profits and service just above mediocre.
Hop you are feeling better soon, Max.
Really liked the pre-lobotomy Obama idea, as well as comparing the Kocks/Palin/Bachman to Berlusconi.
The people of America are not listened to by the pols in DC and we are much more divided geographically than the smaller countries. Keep the pressure going, but don’t lose faith in the American people. The pressure is building and the longer it builds, the way I see it, the more likely an absolutely brilliant release of frustrations and opportunity for change. Not all these eruptions around the world are resulting in necessarily better immediate outcomes, remains to be seen, right.
In any case, you are a champion for the people. Well done and thank you.
@Stacy So was Hitler, but I won’t use that to judge all government-worshippers.
You little IMPS can not hide from my GOLDEN RAY EYES
孙悟空／齐天大圣
taking an amphetamine does not make you a meth head; Rand was addicted Stacy
I did meth too before I got my amphetamine prescription. Drugs alone don’t account for anti-social behavior.
Rand was a pill, though, that’s for sure! And a hypocrite too. She took Medicare and Social Security herself.
@Zach OBrien – you can’t point to a single point in world history when there was a free market for more than it takes for one man to grow richer than another and use that money to make sure that competitor can never out compete him; or as Adam Smith noted, “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
And yet most self-identified libertarians have zero problem with this.
And also please note that the allegedly anti-government party fields candidates and worships the founding fathers who created a government by and for the people. The very fact that they obviously don’t have a problem with government, therefore, makes one have to look elsewhere to see what really unites those who rally under the banner Tea Party.
@Zach O’Brien
What the F are you on about? Do you understand English? “Government worshipper?” Fuck Ayn Rand, she was a drug-addled pathological, elitist, freak. Why don’t you think for yourself instead of sycophantically worshipping some elitist asshole?
Her philosphy can be summed up like this “I’m rich, I don’t give a fuck about anyone but myself, so fuck off and die” Good let’s have a civil war and put your firearms where your mouth is or STFU. Can you spell hypocrisy?
Watch Adam Curtis’s Documentary “The Trap” and learn something.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=404227395387111085#
If you dig the ideal that no man should exist for another man, that no man has the right to another’s life, property, or ANY portion thereof, and that men should be free to conduct peaceful transactions so long as it hurts no one, than you probably would like Ayn Rand.
If you don’t have any skills to produce real marketable goods and services, are too lazy, or have no assets, then join the online movement of benevolent state-sponsored looting, and hire a violent government thug to confiscate some of someone else’s production for you.
Johnney James? You want some of my cow’s milk as well as Stacy? You two can philosophize on the fence with a gun pointed at me and tell me how I owe you milk.
I’m evil for having milk left over at the end of the day. I have a surplus from my production! Investing in your production is bad! I’m a capitalist! Therefore you have the right to my production! Right?
ok……..everything he was saying also applies to Soros, bashing the Tea party, the only people who stand for fiscal conservatism is ……..surreal? banal? blind?
the tea party people are the SLA!
In a free market there is no violent enforcement of any currency standard at all. Zach OBrien
Any money or money form that the government accepts for taxes acquires a huge advantage over other monies or money forms. Thus it is a MUST for true liberty in private money creation that so long as we have government that it recognize no other money but its own fiat. However, that fiat should ONLY be legal tender for government debts, not private ones.
Here’s hypocrite Gary North’s words:
“The government does have the right to establish the form of money that citizens must use to pay their taxes. The government should limit itself to a statement regarding the weight and fineness of the tax coins. If private enterprise produces coins that meet these standards, the government must accept such coins as valid for the payment of taxes. The government lawfully controls the form of taxation; but it should not have any power to monopolize the production of coins. Governments have always asserted this authority, and they have always done so to the detriment of liberty.” Gary North from http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north895.html [bold added]
What’s that? You have two kids and don’t want to produce anything? And since I worked hard and have milk left over; expropriation is in order? Sure, I wasn’t planning on having kids with so many liberals stealing from me anyway. Take it!
@Zach
I don’t know what you are on about. You don’t give a fuck about anyone but yourself and I don’t give a fuck about you. So go live by yourself in a cave.
@ Zach O’Brien
“Omega, Rand’s ideal world would not have a Federal Reserve to empower a criminal banking enterprise. Read the book dude, until then I’m arguing with children. Stacy included.”
In fact, Rand’s world would have no institutional supports at all. It is a world of untrammelled arrogance, greed and disgust. It is so far away from oikonomic principles of political economy as to provide no basis at all for the running of the state. Rand would have us following our desires irrespective of the danger and impact that this will have on society more generally. No society can be run on the basis of pure chrematistics.
F Beard I like your style, but don’t assume that in my heart of hearts I support there being any government at all.
@Zach, are you on meth? You think the world revolves around YOU? Damn dude lay off the junk.
Omega you’re assuming if men were free they would be savages. But in fact government attracts the savages who enslave men. Free men create, innovate, cooperate. Government is the barbarian who subverts the natural rhythm of commerce.
You just have a lack of faith in free human beings, and an unwarranted faith in government monopolies on the use of force. Most of you on this blog don’t understand that you are the ones holding the gun.
but don’t assume that in my heart of hearts I support there being any government at all. Zach OBrien
I don’t assume that at all. However, the libertarian movement has been infiltrated by fascist gold-bugs such as Gary North.
Johnney James, as far as you should be concerned, sound arguments, and linear consistent reasoning revolve around me.
Beard I totally agree. Sound currency is great, but I think that any violent monopoly on a sound currency makes it all for naught.
In a free market, the more gold one institution hoarded, the higher the price would be and the less inclined the remaining holders would be to give it up. So power would naturally accumulate in opposing persons if one person or entity began to hoard.
@Zach
If you want to be free by some physical gold and silver and lay off the meth.
An elitist fiat paper-worshipper posing as a libertarian?
Are the bots coming out da woodwork or what?
JohnyJames Yes I worship paper. What’s wrong with a medium that allows liberal government to steal your production?
We are heading towards………ROLLERBALL !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-NtHe1UIg0
Max,, I’m writing to the Pope for youre beatification.
Is there a saint Max?…………………………..Z
@JonnyJames – I am sure you also ignore those who wield ‘liberal’ as a playground style insult ala various Fox News’ hosts?
@ Sacy Don’t be so heard on your own tactics. -Meth Head
I don’t even get Cable so I don’t have Fox dictate to me who’s running what grassroots movements and call my assumptions sophisticated.
But I do know that under a gold standard all you liberals would be saddened by how small the government would have to be without an inflationary empire. Many of you would have to actually work for a living.
How does Norway do it?
@ Zach O’Brien
“If you dig the ideal that no man should exist for another man, that no man has the right to another’s life, property, or ANY portion thereof, and that men should be free to conduct peaceful transactions so long as it hurts no one.”
1. No man should exist for another man: This is an impossible ideal by virtue of the fact that a) man is a zoon politicon or political animal and b) we live in societies and have interpersonal relationships. Socialisation and collective effort “create” society. As for the idea of “exist for” another: this philosophy is still ingrained in liberal philosophy; which, if you know anything at all, champions the idea of non-interference from the state and government. Taking “exist for” to mean that one lives for another person, or to preserve that other person, we can also look to the idea of a parent’s relationship to a child. Is it not true, in this relationship, that the parent is “existing for” the child; that the parent sustains him or herself in order to “care for another”? If we accept this point, then your argument falls flat.
2. no man has a right to another’s life, property or ANY portion thereof.
Kant expressed this more clearly when he said that man must be treated as an “end” rather than as a “means”. This means that we cannot use people to further our own personal interests. Accepting that humans are unique and sovereign entities, we cannot act morally without conceiving of others in a universal context. In fact, ethical requirements operate on the principle that we think of “humanity” before ourselves. Rawls, in a similar manner, advises that we must think of principles that can be readily agreed by all reasonable individuals. Only in this way is justice a viable ideal. In other words, if you argue egoistically toward a view of justice, you will not arrive at real justice; merely your conception of what justice is. Therefore, justice, the equal weighing of individuals, requires that we reason toward a common conclusion. Evading this process leads to nothing but violence.
I mention justice as you commented on “right”. But where do rights come from? Do they not come from a philosophy that requires us to see the equal worth of all individuals? A right is not merely attained, it is derived from something. On the issue of property, a further point needs to be made: where you are born, who you are born to, ultimately helps to demarcate a certain territory: from the womb to the land about you. BUT, this is morally and economically arbitrary. One person could be born with more “goods” than the rest and use this to create a monopoly. Also, one person could control the means of production (as Marx would say), whilst another is forced to be a mere slave in the system. This, in turn, will reduce competition and lead to the invalidity of fair and reasonable mobility. So, goods must be distributed so as to ensure the best “starting position”. Again, this becomes an impossible ideal unless there is some measure of institutional support.
3. men should be free to conduct peaceful transactions so long as it hurts no one.
If we accept points one and two of your statement, if seems impossible to accept point three. Why? Because if individuals are given total freedom to do as they wish, without any institutional supports (without the rule of law), then there is no possibility of there being “peaceful transactions”. Peaceful transactions of any type involve collective decision making. They do not arise because you “will” them into existence.
“Omega you’re assuming if men were free they would be savages. But in fact government attracts the savages who enslave men. Free men create, innovate, cooperate. Government is the barbarian who subverts the natural rhythm of commerce.”
1. assuming if men were free they would be savages.
Political theory has spent a great deal of time and effort on this subject. Those who talk about a commiserative bond between individuals take a particuarly Rousseauan tact. Others who believe that unchecked desires lead to violence and calamity, posit Hobbes as their source. Personally, government is nothing more than a social contract between citizens. Without it there is no such thing as freedom as some people will attain more freedom (through force and strength), while others receive less (through passivity, weakness or disability).
2. Free men create, innovate.
They do so because they are given the ability to be “free”. They are protected by laws, the heavy and necessary burden of statute. Government, if it is acting in the interests of the people, cares only about “free” commerce. Unfortunately, when a government is co-opted by banking elites, corporate players who have great money and power, the government becomes corrupted. It does so because politicians act egoistically, and act for their own personal gain. IF, however, they thought of the common good, IF they thought oikonomially, then commerce would run free and the laws of supply and demand would create wealth aplenty. THAT is the value of freedom. THAT is the substance of freedom. THAT is the morality of freedom.
I’m all for anyone being able to pursue the surplus of others, I just don’t think they should demand it with a government gun. Rather, produce surplus themselves and then freely negotiate for the surplus of others. I am therefore a free marketer.
But it’s not “moral” unless you employ state-violence to seize the production of others. Am I right so far?
Omega, I never said that you can’t CHOOSE to exist for another man, you are free to do whatever you wish. But once you have a state that COMPELS you to exist for another via threat of violence, then you have Socialism in practice: where a bureaucratic aristocracy loots and cripples the productive free society, in the name of the growing ranks of unproductive and disenfranchised masses.
I see a lot of esoteric discussion here on the merits of PM’s vs Fiat, and different forms of fiat.
I think ANY money system will work, and has worked from time to time, if sufficient safeguards were in place and ENFORCED to provide transparency and fairness. I don’t see any particular advantages of any single system. It’s the intentionality of the Monetary system that defines it, and it’s effects.
That said, PM’s are the ‘contrarian’ position now, and serves as a check on the current system, which is full of abuses. This is cyclic, and there will come a time down the road when PM’s or at least a basket of ‘real’ items will be currency, until something forces it back to ‘virtuality’, i.e. fiat again, at some unknown number of decades from now.
Put it another way, if one group of Humans is determined to screw another group of Humans, with sufficient cleverness and guile and persistence, they will pervert anything and put it to use towards that end.
I think that is the ONLY universal about systems.
A lot of these discussions strike me the same as how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
@ Zach O’Brien
“I’m all for anyone being able to pursue the surplus of others, I just don’t think they should demand it with a government gun. Rather, produce surplus themselves and then freely negotiate for the surplus of others.”
You issue here involves copyright. In other words, if Mr A conceives of idea B, then A = B. Moreover if Mr A’s idea is remunerative, then he should be allowed to accumulate a vast about of wealth (W) from his effort. So A + B = W. Also, any surplus that is generated after C, in other words, after C has taken his profit, goes back to C. We then have A+B = W+S. All of this comes from A.
However, this means that the powerful will gain over the weak, as the surplus will be retained and expended on other activities: buying politicians, buying weapons, banks etc. So the surplus and the profit extracted from the equation are used to further the goals of A and the expense of everyone else. Is this fair? Surely there remains the possibility that Mr A, without regulatory frameworks of any sort, will destroy the ideas of future Mr As?
The fact is that A is part of a state, a nation, a territory. He exists by virtue of a community that ensures B becomes a reality. In this sense, the product cannot escape linkage to a wider community of individuals. Moreover, the entire surplus does not have to be subsumed into the state, nor is it in realty. But it is clear that no society can function without taxation of some sort. So a higher tithe is imposed on A if and only if A has the power to enforce a monopoly. For all that, it seems feasible that A is unable to realise B and to gain S without government help of some sort.
@Stacy
Indeed, most folks don’t understand political and economic terms in the first place.
They don’t have any idea about political philosophy, political psychology, political theory, politcial systems or how politics really works. Their superficial and distorted understanding simply reflects a life-time of dumbed-down propaganda and false narratives.
This Zach character ignores all else and just toots his own horn about how someone is trying to steal his “surplus”. Too bad he can’t see that the kleptocratic oligarchy is stealing more than just his surplus.
If these bot-types were really concerned about kleptocracy, they would be buying silver, gold and taking their fiat out of the BigBanks. They would look behind the curtain and realize it aint ‘da gumment’ per se, but it is the Oligarchy pulling the puppet-strings who are the real culprits.
This is what you and Max talk about every day, yet the bots don’t want to hear it, they simply repeat their boiler-plate talking point to distract from the core issues. Folks like you and Max have x-ray vision to see through the thickest miasma.
Really, the scariest trend I am observing is that all asset classes are being ‘overworked’ to exhaustion. The current Financial class is so rapacious, they are extracting value from everything at a level that is destroying the underlying asset creation capability.
Take Real Estate, for ands example. The wealth extraction process has become so efficient and ruthless, that through MERS and the accompanying title destruction it caused, it’s unclear what the value of ANY real Estae will be in a few years.
Stocks are similarly, hyped and front-run, dumped and counterfeited, destroying trust in the underlying asset and the asset system it represents (Stock market)
This is what’s unprecedented about the current time, the wholesale destruction of assets, through a process akin to exhaustive agriculture, where the soil itself is ruined, not just the current crops.
And so the dollar is being devalued through a process analogous to what’s happening with Stocks and Real Estate. It’s a unique form of destruction never seen before, which is part of the reason, there are all of these deflation-inflation debates. It’s also why Jim Willie calls it ‘disintegration’, because that’s what it is: the disintegration of money, of the price discovery process for stocks, and the valuations of Real Estate.
@ Omega. What’s wrong with powerful people if they have earned it peacefully by offering their innovation to willing customers? I’d like Toyota to keep what they earn to get an all electric car on the market ASAP. Not have half their earnings stolen to fight oil wars.
Power earned is different from power seized.
I think ANY money system will work, and has worked from time to time, if sufficient safeguards were in place and ENFORCED to provide transparency and fairness. Mark Lytle
Nope. You are wrong. Usury based monies (which include PMs) are mathematically unsustainable. Furthermore, if they are privileged by government then they are also fascist and lead to unjust wealth distribution.
The true solution is pretty simple and comes from your wife’s Bible – Matthew 22:16-22 – separate government and private money supplies. Or do you think the Lord is ignorant when it comes to economics?
JohnneyJames? maybe there is another bot posing as me, or maybe I’m not conveying my sarcasm in a simplistic enough manner but I’m anti-fiat and SLA to the core dude. Like your enemies, Ron Paul, Peter Schiff or Ayn Rand.
You could say that the endpoint of all of this is just a loss in trust for the dollar, with PM’s as the means of preserving wealth. Well, I do generally subscribe to this, but the distortions in the fiat currency world, the equities world, and the Real Estate world has distorted things in the ‘real’ world as fully as the fiat, virtual one.
We have grand houses (McMansions) made of cardboard, we have food with no nutrition, or even toxic, we have a highly damaged ecosystems, and we have damaged people running around crazy everywhere (and a lot of them have extreme irrational opinions)
I can’t imagine a foreign invader could ever have produced as much damage as this system has done to itself. And no, though the bankers caused some of it, I think the core is in capitalism itself, where it has mutated with the opportunities presented by unparalleled computer power to morph any asset to any level desired without real effort being expanded. The very idea of ‘morphing’ of photographs, introduced in the ’80′s and ’90′s is a signpost to what was happening to all of the things real and virtual, in our lives.
@F.Beard
Usury is a choice, I can produce any money system and abuse it. Or Not.
And no, though the bankers caused some of it, I think the core is in capitalism itself, where it has mutated with the opportunities presented by unparalleled computer power to morph any asset to any level desired without real effort being expanded. Mark Lytle
In other words the problem is economic freedom itself? Then who do you propose should be in charge of this world of fallible humans? Another fallible human? Should we call him the Fuhrer too?
Beard! A PM standard is not by def usury based!! That’s only if the precious metals are loaned with debt attached to them, due back to a central power.
And in a free market, any precious metals you currently owned are your property outright. Their value will grow too because you’ll have people trying to produce kick ass products to sell you products for them! Just think if our savings always grew no matter what! SLA baby.
@Zach, Who cares?
I don’t give a fuck about no one but myself and I don’t give a fuck about you. (sarcasm)
Usury is a choice, I can produce any money system and abuse it. Mark Lytle
And that is why we need NO money system for private debts – so we can escape any abuse by using a competitor’s product.
For ages, there has been philosophic debate between how one discerns ‘reality’ from ‘appearance’. This goes back to the Ancient Greeks.
Now, we have settled this. You can’t do it anymore.
Beard the US is Marxist, not capitalist, as our biggest current problem is “centralization of credit in the hands of the state.” That is if you’ll accept that the Fed, Goldman, and JPM is “the state.” I don’t know how anyone could argue against that.
Marxism won, capitalism got sick and died a long time ago.
(The 5th plank of Marxism: “centralization of credit in the hands of the state”)
“@Zach, Who cares?
I don’t give a fuck about no one but myself and I don’t give a fuck about you. (sarcasm)”
Stacy you sided with this guy against me. Wow.
@F.Beard
“In other words the problem is economic freedom itself? Then who do you propose should be in charge of this world of fallible humans? Another fallible human? Should we call him the Fuhrer too?”
Slow down, cowboy, I proposed nothing.
It’s helpful to define the problem before you go blathering around about solutions.
I am only trying to define the problem.
No you know, a criminal will not limit himself in any way. I understand the criminal bankers make the same defense. They would claim I’m attacking free market capitalism. They wrap themselves in the flag, and all that.
The problem is, modern Americans seem to have acquired the idea that ethics are an unfair imposition, very unpleasant and toxic, and since everyone is imperfect, then no one is ‘worthy’ to enforce ethics. So we choose chaos.
Previous generations usually worked this out, satisfactorily, as long as those generations were healthy. We are not. Thus, the problem.
It explains your liberalism Jhonney. You don’t care about me, and of course you want to tax me. Natural liberal slip-up.
@Zach,
Aw did I hurt your feelings? All I did was use some English words (of Anglo-Saxon and Norse origin, which for some reason, many find offensive) and I indicated that I was being sarcastic. Don’t be so sensitive.
You must be a yank, like me. Because you don’t even know what liberal means. Ask a Brit.
http://www.politicalcompass.org will tell you some basics about this.
I am an Anarchist, BTW. My sarcasm has escaped you.
“I don’t give a fuck about no one but myself and I don’t give a fuck about you. (sarcasm)”
This came from Stacy’s partner-in-Zach-bashing. Shameful.
It’s helpful to define the problem before you go blathering around about solutions. Mark Lytle
Implying that I do? I’m not blathering anything. I have thought long and hard about the problem and Matthew 22:16-22 is the solution.
It’s your tough luck that it validates the Bible and that you did not take it seriously.
My main point is that manipulation of perception has become so powerful, that reality and appearance as the ancients debated it, is no longer resolvable to the average mind, and only with some difficulty by the not-so-average mind.
Truth is defeated. A byproduct is that few have had sufficient experience with ‘thought’ to do it as well as people used to. A casualty of living in a ‘virtualized’, ‘matrix’ kind of world.
And in a free market, any precious metals you currently owned are your property outright. Their value will grow too because you’ll have people trying to produce kick ass products to sell you products for them! Just think if our savings always grew no matter what! ZO
Jesus condemned money hoarding in Matthew 25:14-30.
Furthermore, money hoarding is a means of looting the young for the sake of the old as the population grows but the money supply does not.
I think the most troubling thing liberal SLA members have to toss and turn about at night, is this:
When the people become free from their banker-masters, they are also cut off from the feeding regimen the master’s farm provided (feed and healthcare based on money printing and products conned out of East Asia. They are worried about having to make their own way again without the subsidies of their farmer.
@F.Beard
You rarely know what you are talking about, even with the Bible to help you.
I think you’re still trying to sell the idea of Common stock (meant to vary) as currency (meant to be stable). Logic? None.
Common Stock as in ‘Dow Jones’ is not a Biblical concept either, plus you make absolutely no sense.
I really shouldn’t be debating with a self-admitted ex-Meth user anyway..waste of time. You’ve lost too much grey matter Beard.
What the Kochs did or are trying to do in WI –
They gave Walker about $43k
What they want from him is the state’s electric grid (Dreams of Enron)
Walker wants to give this to them with a no bid contract
However, they are anti nuke; cause they are in the business of coal, oil and gas – WI plants are mostly coal.
They also have an office across the street from the capital and what I’ve been told this comes with a private tunnel connecting to the legislative chamber
It’s hard to imagine they will get the contract after all the protests, but if the recalls fail it’s anyone’s guess what will happen.
The State Supreme Court election was a test case and it looks like Walker’s guy won.
However, Americans like a familiar face – if Walker is recalled there’s a pretty good chance Feingold will run for Governor.
What the Koch Bros bring to the table and it’s pretty new is they got local
They find a few dopes in each local community to weasel their legislation in and get it passed, this way it looks like this idea came from local citizens.
Basically, what their organization does is copying legislation they like that passes in one state then tweak it to fit another state they want control in. They are like a virus that adapts.
They got the idea from the law suits against big tobacco – few may remember or even know that the sweeping court cases across the country that won judgment after judgment against big tobacco was all written in Minnesota. What other state AG’s did was copy and past their work and took it with them to court.
This method made it hard for a state judge to refute what another judge’s ruling was in a neighboring state, not to mention the case against big tobacco was actually written very well.
The Kochs took this technique and started using it for legislation that favored their bottom line. They tried many techniques and the ones that worked they just copied, past and tweaked to fit then sent on to the next state.
As long as you have a legal resident to purpose their ideas there’s very little anyone can do to stop them, other than get active.
It’s, all-politics-is-local on steroids.
What we have now are the American People not only fighting lobby groups in DC, but are also trying to fight guys like the Koch Bros. in their local communities as well.
I don’t think the American people can handle both DC and their local government at the same time. We are being attacked on all sides, surrounded by vampires, and the only way to kill them is a stake through the heart.
This is another reason why I am for secession.
Protesting austerity is just cattle back at the feeding trough begging for the fences to be put back up and the grain to start flowing to fatten them up for slaughter. It’s disgusting admittance of servitude. It’s surrender.
In the end, Humanity faces some kind of a test, as to whether it can surmount the wall of appearances, and addictive promises of a corrupt corporatocracy. If it can’t, it’s toast.
I really shouldn’t be debating with a self-admitted ex-Meth user anyway..waste of time. Mark Lytle
That’s a cop out. But run away if you can’t hold your end of an argument.
If it can’t, it’s toast. Mark Lytle
And who made you a prophet, sonny boy?
The “true legend in his own mind” is you Mark Lytle.
And since your are depressed and I am usually not then who is more sane, you or me? At least I am sane enough to have hope but what about you?
What a riot, the ex-Meth Head, who got himself fired over a redhead, calls himself sane.
Schinger that’s epic.
I think secession in the SouthWest means race-war. There’s going to be a lot of Mexican nationals ready to fight whitey for their “land back.” I can feel the tension as the economy slips and we don’t have as much work for them.
Also, when Sacramento collapses, the Fed’s plan to court the Mexican population with some pretty simplistic 3 minute hate, racially-charged propaganda and employ them to take out the white-property owners. A free Federal army really.
The reason they are turning a blind eye to the drug cartel encroachment and the rampant migration of people is to destabilize an egalitarian succession movement. The enlightenment didn’t come out of Mexico after all.
I think you’re still trying to sell the idea of Common stock (meant to vary) as currency (meant to be stable). Logic? None. Mark Lytle
You are pretty dumb if you think a constant store of value exists or could ever exist. ALL money is dynamic in value. But as far as money goes, I only insist in total liberty in private money creation. Then you could use your shiny metals and others could use saner money forms.
“You are pretty dumb if you think a constant store of value exists or could ever exist. ALL money is dynamic in value. But as far as money goes, I only insist in total liberty in private money creation. Then you could use your shiny metals and others could use saner money forms.”
Sophistry by a nut.
What a riot, the ex-Meth Head, who got himself fired over a redhead, calls himself sane. Mark Lytle
Falling for a woman is no shame since David himself did so. I suppose if one is cold-blooded then it might seem insane.
And I never claimed to be sane – just saner than you. And since I take the Bible serious and you don’t then I expect the gap in sanity to grow to infinity unless you repent.
Sophistry by a nut. Mark Lytle
You are a conceited little twit, aren’t you? Or just insecure?
@F.Beard
David was a moral failure, not a role model, of any kind, and you’re hocus pocus doesn’t work.
Good day.
David was a moral failure, not a role model, of any kind, and you’re hocus pocus doesn’t work. Mark Lytle
David sinned yes but he was not conceited as you are and as I used to be. And David is a model of those saved by grace. A grace you do not even believe exists?
Very good show. You come across well when you’re sick Max.
Beard, why the hell did Noah include mosquitos and ticks on the ark? Next time you’re kneeling to your sky-god at the pews could you curse him out for me?
Hey Max, Why don’t you interview the anarchocapitalist Lew Rockwell (whose anti Koch) and discuss their neocon brand of libertarianism? He’s featured a number of your videos on his blog. Oh wait, what’s this? Butler Shaffer (and Lew Rockwell) masterbate in public while watching videos of American politicians getting shot http://maxkeiser.com/2011/01/11/butler-shaffer-and-lew-rockwell-masterbate-in-public-while-watching-videos-of-american-politicians-getting-shot/
Koch Brothers Fund Trey Grayson’s Campaign
Posted by Lew Rockwell on March 30, 2010 08:44 AM
I have it on very good authority that Charles and David Koch, the ex-libertarian oil plutocrats of Wichita, Kansas, are helping bankroll neocon Trey Grayson’s senate campaign in Kentucky against Rand Paul. http://63.e5bed1.client.atlantech.net/pacs/expenddetail.php?cycle=2010&cmte=C00236489&name=Friends+Of+Trey+Grayson Grayson, who has been endorsed by Dick Cheney, is the protege of Mitch McConnell, the Bob Dole of Kentucky. Dole was also a favorite of the Kochs. This all makes twisted sense, since the Kochs are—says the BBC’s Greg Palast—the biggest Republican donors in the world, officially and otherwise. Of course, they support, and massively profit from, the regime. BTW, one hobby of the Kochs is their anti-Ron Paul “libertarian” Beltway movement.
Koch Brothers Hire Arnold’s PR Operative
Posted by Lew Rockwell on February 2, 2011 08:39 AM
The Republican oil siblings, reports Bob Wenzel,http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/02/koch-brothers-hire-arnold.html are upset that their oligarchical ways seem not to be appreciated. Why, for example, can Soros travel with no security, or one body guard at the most, and they need the entire “K” army? So the brothers have hired former flacks for Arnold and Sarah, and a top movement neocon, too (illustrating the approved Beltway ideological spectrum), to make them lovable. Of course, as Politico notes, they already have a vast network of non-profits and even a university or two, to sing the Wichita anthem: “We’d like the world to pay us Kochs, in perfect harmony.”
UPDATE Thanks to Norm, who reminds me that the latest guy to wear a lapel pin bearing Koch’s “K” logo, Michael Goldfarb, formerly of the Weekly Standard, is not only a warmonger and police statist, but a hate merchant.
The influence of Charles and David Koch on the Tea Party Movement and their connections with the Governor of Wisconsin have been much in the news lately. The efforts of the Kochs to gain political influence began long ago; and students of what Sam Konkin aptly called the Kochtopus will inevitably be reminded of the Koch brothers’ involvement in Ed Clark’s campaign for President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980. Indeed, David Koch was Clark’s running mate; his being on the ticket freed him from the monetary limits normally imposed on donors. Differences of opinion on the campaign, among other matters, led to a breach between the Kochs and Murray Rothbard. For understanding that breach, we have an invaluable tool. Rothbard wrote about the conflict numerous times in Libertarian Forum, a newsletter that he edited from 1969 to 1984. http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon86.1.html
On Koch Supported Herman Cain (former KC FED chairman ) http://www.lewrockwell.com/wenzel/wenzel84.1.html
Your guest was an obvious left wing shill.
why the hell did Noah include mosquitos and ticks on the ark? ZO
To plague non-believers? I can’t remember the last time a flea or tick bit me, praise the Lord!
But in any case, the Flood was not world-wide since humans were concentrated to a single geographical area making them an easy target.
Max/Stacy
You should ask Paul Sommerville (from Vincent Browne) to be on your show. He is a fantastic analyst and has been right about everything that has happened in Ireland so far. He’s also very entertaining.
@ Zach O’Brien
“I’m all for anyone being able to pursue the surplus of others, I just don’t think they should demand it with a government gun. Rather, produce surplus themselves and then freely negotiate for the surplus of others.”
You issue here involves copyright. In other words, if Mr A conceives of idea B, then A = B. Moreover if Mr A’s idea is remunerative, then he should be allowed to accumulate a vast about of wealth (W) from his effort. So A + B = W. Also, any surplus (S) that is generated after W is thereby added. We then have A+B = W+S. All of this comes from A.
However, this means that the powerful will gain over the weak, as the surplus will be retained and expended on other activities: buying politicians, buying weapons, banks etc. So the surplus and the profit extracted from the equation are used to further the goals of A and the expense of everyone else. Is this fair? Surely there remains the possibility that Mr A, without regulatory frameworks of any sort, will destroy the ideas of future Mr As?
The fact is that A is part of a state, a nation, a territory. He exists by virtue of a community that ensures B becomes a reality. In this sense, the product cannot escape linkage to a wider community of individuals. Moreover, the entire surplus does not have to be subsumed into the state, nor is it in realty. But it is clear that no society can function without taxation of some sort. So a higher tithe is imposed on A if and only if A has the power to enforce a monopoly. For all that, it seems feasible that A is unable to realise B and to gain S without government help of some sort.
@Zach Obrien
How to Reach the Left | Roderick T. Long http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hjO1ak4_M#t=3m07s
Presented by Roderick Long at the Mises Circle in Chicago: “Strategies for Changing Minds Toward Liberty,” on 9 April 2011. Sponsored by Dr. Don Stacy.
“Strategies for Changing Minds Toward Liberty,”
Liberty? Hah! The folks at mises.org believe in a government enforced gold standard. I know. I have debated them extensively. How dare they speak of liberty?! Liberty for who? Gold owners, gold miners and the usury class?
Thanks Mike, maybe I should check that out. Because a lot of the libs who post here are conservatives who haven’t really thought it out.
F Beard? You can’t elect any mafia to protect your liberty without the means canceling out the ends. How about I don’t take your gold or silver and you don’t take mine. And if we produce something beyond what we consume; we allow each other to market our production for gold or silver anyone wishes to pay us. Or is that evil too?
So F Beard should government force everyone violently to own gold orrrr what? Liberty is achieved only when government violence liberates it? I’m not following the philosophy of why you’re still holding the gun of the state.
How about I don’t take your gold or silver and you don’t take mine. And if we produce something beyond what we consume; we allow each other to market our production for gold or silver anyone wishes to pay us. Or is that evil too? ZO
You don’t understand what I’m saying. Use gold or silver all you want for private debts but don’t force others to pay their taxes with them. Get it? Or should it be necessary that in addition to paying taxes that people must buy gold or silver to do so too?
Don’t you see the scam some so-called libertarians are trying to pull?
Beard fiat currency is inflated to confiscate gold. You understand that right?
@ F Beard
You’re wrong.
In the mid 1970s Hayek’s interest in the denationalization of money (1976) was renewed. Having lost all hope of achieving monetary stability through the instruments of highly politicized monetary institutions, Hayek suggested—by his own account, almost as a “bitter joke”—that the business of issuing money be turned over to private enterprise. Soon taking this suggestion seriously, he began to explore the feasibility and the consequences of competing currencies.
Hayek’s proposal for competition in the issue of money is not subject to the standard objection based on the so-called common-pool problem. The proposal is not that private issuers should compete by issuing some generic currency. Clearly, competition on this basis would produce an explosive inflation. The proposal, rather, is that each competitor issue his own trade-marked currency. Under this arrangement, each issuer would have an incentive to maintain a stable value of his own currency and to minimize the difficulties of using this currency in an environment where other currencies are used as well. http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/e4hayek.htm
H.R.1098 – Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011 http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h1098/text
112th CONGRESSCommentsClose CommentsPermalink
1st SessionCommentsClose CommentsPermalink
H. R. 1098CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
1
To repeal the legal tender laws, to prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion, and to repeal superfluous sections related to coinage.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESCommentsClose CommentsPermalink
March 15, 2011CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
Mr. PAUL introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Financial Services, and in addition to the Committees on Ways and Means and the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
Ron Paul: End the Fed, Legalize Competing Currencies! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moROt9yoQl8
Beard force is not in the libertarian philosophy so you’re smoking something that prevents you from arguing against us. Sober up.
@ Zach
I feel you dude. My only recommendation is to maybe temper your combativeness a bit. I think we’re all on the same team here. Finding common ground is always a good place to start. ~peace
Remember liberals are idle intellectuals who’s political philosophy always has to justify stealing eggs and milk from the countryside. They couldn’t manage a farm if their copy of Marx depended on it!
“To repeal the legal tender laws, to prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion, and to repeal superfluous sections related to coinage.”
The only competitive currencies allowed would be PM based. But PMs require usury. Common stock, which does not require usury, would be at a competitive disadvantage wrt PMs since the capital gains tax would remain on common stock but not on PMs.
The folks at mises.org and perhaps Ron Paul are committed to usury.
force is not in the libertarian philosophy so you’re smoking something that prevents you from arguing against us. ZO
Any money or money form that is accepted for taxes has a huge advantage over those that are not. Get it? If PMs are accepted for taxes then that is a government subsidy for them. Get it? But government subsidies are not libertarian. Get it?
Sober up. ZO
Sober up yourself so I won’t have to repeat myself to you.
liberals are idle intellectuals who’s political philosophy always has to justify stealing eggs and milk from the countryside. ZO
Liberals aren’t the only evil; there are fascists too posing as libertarians.
I know I have such a tendency to do that. In reality I really admire Max and Stacy and I’ve been following them since mid 2007. The West is collapsing so I guess the freak-outs are more justified here than over some ball-game somewhere. But still..
I just don’t see how people think government is the source of their prosperity, when it’s the biggest consumer of prosperity. And how they think that because Hank Paulson is a financial terrorist, my neighbor who is a rich engineer who invents amazing products that help others, should have his house stolen, his businesses destroyed, and savings redistributed to the poor. Liberals just can’t see the difference between wealth earned and wealth stolen.
Liberals just can’t see the difference between wealth earned and wealth stolen. ZO
Any loans from the government backed counterfeiting cartel, the banking system, is theft of purchasing power from all money holders including and especially the poor since they are not considered “credit-worthy” themselves.
The liberals wish to steal some of wealth back. That is a flawed remedy. True libertarians wish to abolish the stealing PERIOD.
Yes Beard every movement has it’s con artists and hijackers the media is poised to convey as it’s leaders; which is why Max and Stacy get conned into generalizing movements based on the shills designed to portray them.
They don’t live here and don’t understand that dissent is met with death threats and violence. And the movements from dissenters are infiltrated by sock-puppets that the news cameras are ready to portray as the “source.”
Beard you got it!
I don’t give a flying shit who wins the election now. I have SILVER. And I am Free
If the rest of the people want to be free, is all they need to do is buy silver.
As the economists say.
There is a fire, Don’t jump in it.
What do the people do?
They jump in the fire straight away.
It is sad but true. After the children get castrated in the schools, they are no longer able to think. This is the saddest condition man has ever been in.
I do pity them but. As the GOLDEN RULE says.
FORCE NO MAN.
Mankind is so pathetically stupid.
The consensus of every economist, about the entire educational system.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! Taki Taki Taki. Says it all. Let me down this time Max. Get well soon eh!
actually made up for it in the last 5 minutes. previous comment retracted.
This guest was clearly an economic ignoramus. He used the word “privatize” as if it’s something dirty. He made a few points that I thought you’d object to, Max. Mostly in regards to the nature of the free market.
Old English you’re not free until the bastards let us trade in silver. Until then we’re on the hook for the phony “capital gains” confiscation when we try to use our PMs to re enter the market.
Hey Mike are you on Max’s facebook friends?
@ Zach yes I am.
Michael Jones. Look for the profile pic that says, “Obama, syop funding dictators!” I’m not the guy in the picture.
This is a giant steaming load of crap.
MAX! Wealth distribution is immoral STEALING! The transfer to the top 1% is only possible via the State. The bailouts are GOVERNMENT bailouts! C’mon bro, join the Good Side!