Stacy Summary: We interview Steve Keen of DebtDeflation.com
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This has to be the best Keiser Report so far…
Thank you so much, Max and Stacy. You have brought much comfort to me of late.
Love you both lots, with kind regards
Androulla xxx
PS. Let us know when you are next in London.. would love to meet up again.
Thumbs up!
Attention union haters.. teacher haters.. public worker haters.. and other brainless ideologues:
WATCH THIS VIDEO AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES TO PENETRATE YOUR POOR SAD DELUDED BRAIN!!
Keen’s a genius. Look at the size of his head! Unfortunately no one will listen. They will continue on with the madness until they destroy everything. And all the while they will spout banker lies and propaganda as the ship of state drowns in a lake of shit.
Too bad. Collectively, the whole human race gets the Darwin Award. Sad. Sad. Sad for the few intelligent people out there who gave a shit.. but all to no avail. The will of the 30 (oligarchs) trumps that of the 300 million every time. Sayanara suckers.
http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/democracy-vs-mythology-the-battle-in-syntagma-square/
Great show today!
I like Keen’s understanding of the current problems as well as his anti-status quo nature. However, how does he plan to “increase wages”? What level should they be? He just wants central planning where he’s running the show. These professors are all the same as they’ve never run businesses on a DAILY BASIS or understand what drives human nature (it’s not just greed).
The only way to increase wages is to produce more using less at higher qualities within a stable currency/money supply. That’s it! When will we learn that central planning for millions of people DOES NOT WORK! Ugh.
I hate to disagree with Steve Keen but there is a way to eliminate debt without price inflation:
1) Ban the banks from any further so-called “credit creation” pending fundamental reform. This would be massively deflationary as existing credit was repaid but please continue to 2).
2) Every month send every US adult citizen an equal check of fiat equal in total to the amount of credit paid off the previous month. Continue until all credit was replaced with fiat.
So, without a serious risk of price inflation the entire population, including savers, could be bailed out.
IMF cuts U.S. growth forecast, warns of crisis
Ha Ha Ha, You boxed in Keen at the very end with your Gold Hedge thingy – he does not like the precious.
But you need to interview Keen over half a hour on press TV rather then the truncated RT schedule.
Stephen Roach, non-executive chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia and faculty member of Yale University
Very good show – I like Steve Keens candidness. You would think that raising wages would be politically acceptable – the population would obviously welcome it. As Steve Keen pointed out forever, this would be a benefit to the population and the economy as a whole but the banks would take a hit – here is where we see the power of ‘contribution’ money – ie. bribes. The politicians are owened in my opinion. However, I do believe they can act as long as there is massive public pressure, they like the seats of power – so far I have not heard the population call for wage increase as a METHOD of countering the problems in the economy. Getting out on the street and giving out is not enough; we need an organised and detailed program of action of “we want this as it will do this and this” etc.
Housing Crisis Worse than Great Depression: 7 Shocking Facts About the U.S. Housing Market
@Geek Boy. are you back from your trip?
@ronron
Yeah! Unbelievable, a real eye-opener. Off to Switzerland for 3 and a half weeks in July and then try and find a job in this shithole – fat chance though, alot more friends have left already since I’ve been away. Hope all is well with @rawraw
@GeekBoy. good luck to you. never give up. this reminds me of 1980 only worse.
Colonel Papandreou: “The people love me. Those who are causing all the trouble are terrorists.
Do the banks in Holland sell those new coins with the scanner codes on them?
Paul Craig Roberts: Will Washington Foment War Between China and India?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgnq8AGRkAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVjtVEfyuZs
Thanx……i laughed out loud when you asked the “bad guys” to just go away.
Even Jim Grant doesn’t predict when the rib-kickin will stop
Stacy…look great in all black today!
(USA is pretty well zombified)
Refreshing.
The solution is not austerity for a change.
Strange seems like it should be obvious.
So much sense spoken in so few minutes…..but how do we translate it into positive action when the political elite have no “investment” in seeing sense?
When the economy becomes a financial circus based on debt fueled acrobatics: Lessons from the Great Depression Part 34. Tracking housing values from 1940 to 2011.
Great episode! Was frustrated by Keen’s lack of specific ideas how to increase wages fairly tho. You cant have public unions getting wage increases on the backs of private sector workers whose wages are decreasing. Net net you would have the same problem. So how then?
@Seth Duppstadt – we just didn’t have time; we’ll have to talk to him again specifically about that; or I will suggest he write a blog post about that
Raise wages in the higher cost economies? How does that support transnational bottom lines?
It behooves onlookers to assess purchasing power parity from the POV of the transnationals, ie their ppp.
Assume we get a global .gov with a SDR (type) global currency.
In this scenario, tax havens disappear, but tax code doesn’t.
Imagine a worldwide tax code that “encourages” transnationals.
Serfiness is next to godliness?
M&S were on form, when will mainstream media crack & report the reality?
Fukushima Day 99- Infant Deaths up 48% in Philadelphia USA since Japan meltdowns
Japan’s Radiation Twice as Bad; Full Meltdowns at 3 Reactors: Hot Particles Dangerous
aha “Increasing Wages” – said that years ago.
Here is a really serious provocateur for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP3gzee1cps
at least this one seems to know its doing is wrong :-p
Only one thing with all these economic discussions is neglected namely that the plan is to wreck the economy and benefit the NWO oligarchs.
It’s not stupidity or misintenion it’s intentionally.
@ Super Neutrality. I concur. What a beautiful piece of intellectualy stimulating programing. Steve and Max rule!
@ Rumcajs. I meant Stacy, Steve and Max rule!
Hi Max, Thanks for all your excellent programmes.
However, I was disappointed to listen to the Australian Economics professor Keen you had on the show today. I was not aware that you evidently subscribe to such blind left-wing and fatuous views as this man clearly has. Inflation, particularly intentionally-generated inflation, is never a solution to any economic problem. It is always used as a solution to a political problem, usually one as a result of Socialism resulting in spending far too much of other peoples’ money profligately!
Even Keynes Keen managed to misquote. Keynes was very clear that inflation destroys economies and societies. This professor Keen evidently does not understand the destructive effects that inflation has on any economy. Inflation destroys the real wealth creating processes. For example it drives previously solvent and healthy enterprises which are not highly geared into over-trading, and usually resultant ultimate failure. This destroys the jobs of working people and usually as in the UK and USA those wealth creating enterprises are lost for good and never replaced. That real wealth generating capacity then migrates to other lower cost regimes, since the previous host region cannot then complete globally after the inflation with higher costs and higher tax overheads. Inflation also hits the poorest and the elderly hardest since they cannot work at the higher wage levels to replenish their lost savings value, and they become impoverished! It is thus an amoral approach which this professor Keen advocates. Yet in the past YOU have commented that we need more saving and less borrowing!
The pre-requisites for real growth and economic prosperity are sound money and low taxes with stability. That enables real investment in wealth generation and growth. Inflation destroys real growth. Thus to advocate that the answer to all the present global economic problems is to use significant inflation to write off private debt is just abject nonsense! It is essentially inflation which has destroyed the USA and UK economies since WWII. What we now need is sound money – not ravaging inflation. Please choose guests with sound knowledge in future, as you usually do, not those like Keen who advocate Zimbabwe economics.
Inflating the debt away is transferring wealth from the savers to the speculators. I wish Steve would name the other option to get rid of the debt: DEFAULT.
Although I agree with much of what Keen has to say, I’m still not sure how raising wages is the panacea he sets out. I tend to go agree with Ranallo above. We don’t need more central planning. Also, I thought debasing the currency even further through inflation was something Max and Stacey tended to look upon unfavorably? I guess I’m a bit confused. Was the context of the discussion with Keen in this episode supposed to only be about Greece? Would his suggestion be the same for the U.S.? How does this jibe with the desire to get off of a fiat currency system and back to a gold or precious metals standard? Can someone please provide a little clarity to a non-economist non-economist?
BINGO!
Terrific economic collapse/financial nightmare summary by Max & Stacy!
#1. The IMF and OTHER Banksters ARE IN DEBT !!
Stacy: “The IMF is pulling a Hank Paulson on a global scale!”
[PRIVATE banks, including Hank Paulson's OWN (previous to him becoming Bush-II's 3rd & final Treasury Secretary) Golddamn-Sachs, and Bob Rubin (also a former GS co-Chairman) CITI-group, WERE BANKRUPT - THEY NEEDED "bailouts", so THEY STUCK THEIR PRIVATE DEBTS on PUBLIC taxpayers, and in Naziesque "blame the victims" fashion, CALLED THEIR BIALOUTS "FREE MARKET CAPITALISM" and BLAMED unions, teachers, and American working households for the BANKERS' own CASINO GULAG GAMBLING, speculating, & attempted MONOPOLY commodities cornering DEBTS !! (See Goddamn-Sachs SEEKING BAILOUTS, DESPITE BETTING ON "Credit Default Swaps" with AIG, against the very S*** 'securities' THEY were SELLING to THEIR OWN clients - they were making PROFITS BOTH WAYS, from the FRAUDULENT SALES, and the CDS "insurance" when they blew up - and they STILL needed "bailouts" !!!!!!)]
Max: “Yes, they’re putting a gun to people’s head and say ‘GIVE US YOUR MONEY’ – just like a STICK UP – you can’t just have BANDITS at the IMF saying ‘GIVE US ANOTHER TRILLION DOLLARS’!”
(Max): “The IMF is saying the path to economic glory, is TO INCREASE YOUR DEBT” !!!
#2. The US & Fed are trying to FORCE Consumers to TAKE ON MORE mortgage DEBT – even as HOUSING PRICES FALL by 1% per month!
Housing Crisis WORSE than In GREAT DEPRESSION
Max: “The House price situation is NOT GOING TO GET BETTER as long as INCOMES KEEP DETERIORATING…
ONE percent of Americans OWN the SAME WEALTH as the BOTTOM NINETY percent… and INCOMES in America ARE COLLAPSING, because remember the global banksters WANT INCOME LEVELS in the USA and CHINA to be ABOUT THE SAME…. about $2,000 per year, so American home prices WILL CONTINUE TO COLLAPSE.”
#3. http://www.DrHousingBubble.com – There WAS a DIRECT LINK between house prices & US income….
Then, between 2000 and 2010, US GDP vs MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME – GDP UP, as their INCOMES DROPPED (and DEBT LEVELS soared upwards.)
So Americans WERE EARNING LESS & LESS, as housing prices SOARED.
#4. Max: “That’s right, the DEBT LEVELS INCREASED, as INCOME WENT DOWN,
….at the top of the cycle the banks swooped in, they took ALL THE EQUITY OUT that they had EXTRACTED using DERIVATIVES, they left the consumer with ALL the debt.
Then Barack Obama was elected president… he MATCHED the WEALTH CONFISCATION of the CREDITORS, by GIVING THEM $20 TRILLION MORE of “bailouts” so they DOUBLED their illegal bets, and they put the consumer in to TWICE the INCOME IMPAIRMENT, by putting TWENTY TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT overhang over their heads.”
Great show Max /Stacy
The false, but non the less “present”, reality … money = life.
The earth is flat if money, religion, and politics form an alliance, to say it is flat. Bankers with money control the false realty. Bankers make money on speculation. Banning speculation, is banning income from those who control the money. There is no way out of this chariot, trash design if we are so partisan, as to stay within such a system.
A banker bringing several suitcases of money into a room … Babes who insist on taking their bras off in the middle of a serious conversation, a british banker’s accent, various time share options in heaven, and to a much lessor extent, guys who wear bow ties … when confronted with these “props” it is hard to detect any threat that may exist, now isn’t it?
We have hung our lives on a spike that the monetary, paradigm has driven through our collective, forehead. A pattern emerges of not knowing what to do, so the default mode kicks in and we make, yet another, in a series unenforceable laws. Let’s all do the Bretton Woods boogie, the Sarbanes-Oxley – fox trot, the Hammurabi hump. Tired of dancing? We can always catch the Glass-Steagall Act.
More recent u say? – Sept. 21/10 George Canellos, the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission’s Manhattan office, said new U.S. rules for clearing derivatives trades are likely to expose frauds tied to instruments including credit-default swaps.
“In history, there’s been one insider-trading case brought in the context of credit-default swaps, and it’s not because insider trading isn’t perpetrated,” Canellos said at a hedge- fund forum at Bloomberg’s New York headquarters yesterday. “It’s because of the lack of transparency.” Sleep well, George has our backs … u o.k with that?
The GOOD NEWS from KR 158 is – when everyone WAKES UP! – we KNOW where to “get the money” – we get it from those – they hyper-wealthy – who have “benefiteed”, “PROFITTED” from the $20 TRILLION in “Deregulation” era LEGALIZED FRAUDs,
AND from the $20 TRILLION that the treacherous Barack Obama has dished out in TAXPAYER OBLIGATED “bailouts” !!!
#1. AUDIT the Fed, and, above all, AUDIT the damn TAXPAYER EXTORTED “bailouts” !!
#2. IMPEACH Gary Gensler & Mary Schapiro (over at CFTC & SEC, respectively) and put someone in there who will AUDIT the banksters & corportions for their “DERIVATIVES” GAMBLING LOSSES, which the traitorous debt lords are going to TRY TO STICK on us taxpayers – using their “TOO big TOO fail” whine, again!
#3. BRING BACK THE WORD, “CLAW-BACKS” !!
point out that ANYONE WHO OBJECTS to AUDITING THE FED, is a TRAITOR, to the American people & to the US Constitution, which RESERVES the creation of money to THE US CONGRESS, NOT a cabal of private banksters and the wealthy – OFFSHORE FOREIGNERS – they front for!
All this “BAILOUTS”! and “DEBT CEILING” and IMF extortion INSANITY, distills down to the wealthy crying
“IF you don’t GIVE US money – TRILLIONS, $$, TODAY – WE WON’T LEND TO YOU tomorrow” !!!
tell the thieving bastards to go jump in a lake!
why are you blocking me? So-called liberals are the worst censoes.
Minsky my arse! David Ricardo could have predicted the GFC. The elaborate debt accumulation Keen described is known as inflation. In a properly formulated for inflation Goodwin model, the wage share diminishes due to inflation.Steve Keen is a QTM denier!
I’d post a link but it would get caught in Stacy’s spam filter.
@Stacy – You should let a little truth creep above your knees!
Jesus. Are americans listening to MAX…. imagine if MAX was on main stream tv… the whole system would collapse in days….
P.S. – price levels due to bankruptcies restore the wage share. You might ask Keen about that next.
And how is he going to raise wages – at gunpoint?
pps – should read “Price level drops due to bankruptcies . . .” etc.
Yes dogster…at gunpoint….which I find troubling ……but it`s the way the IRA and the Zionists got their way in the last century….and it looks as though we are going to have to put contracts out on the rich until they realise their enormous game of bluff is lost.
@max
herro hope good day
like you know….you haven’t shopped at walmart ever….(me either)
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@max
herro hope good day
like you know….you haven’t shopped at walmart ever….(me either)
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That’s why we need interest rate hikes!!
Fractional reserve banking is the reason for the private debt problem the assets don’t match the liabilities!
@ dogster
“And how is he going to raise wages – at gunpoint?”
If necessary !
Max,
May I suggest you try to get either Randall Wray (2nd choice) or Bill Mitchell (1st Choice) on your show to discuss their gov’t sponsored, full-employment ideas ala MMT?
Bill Mitchell and Keen had quite a debate over the subject almost 2 years ago, and it seems nothing really progressed between them.
The reason for doing so would be to provide some balance to Keen’s ideas (and fill in the gaps that he misses).
Mitchell et al. have a better perspective of how the Modern Monetary system operates from the top, while Keen has the best view of the money system from within.
In any event, I am looking forward to getting a couple copies of Keen’s updated DE (one to give to my Econ prof
), as well as the forthcoming textbook from Bill Mitchell.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/
Thanks Max
you deserve an A for that performance.
One of the best interview I have seen on MK.
BTW – can you come to the UK and suggest these ideas to the moronic government here before we get Greeced.
A.
Awesome. Excited to get my hand on Steve’s new book!
Max and Steve Keen! Smart as whips!
11:10
Uncle Ben circus contortionist gold.
—–
Microwaves are unhealthy enough as is without radioactive particles entering you on top of that. Don’t use them, people.
Steve Keen rules, even though he said “the real anti-growth are the bankers”. Not that that was wrong, but he said “anti” in an American accent (‘ant-eye’). For shame!
Think about your roots, Steve-O.
Stacy’s chart about wages going down didn’t really look so much like they went down as described through most of that period. Wages looked mostly static in that range, in my opinion.
Very good show.
Interesting episode. Australia has a high private debt per capita to GDP ratio. I’m not sure though that the money supply has actually increased that much(might have to check). I’d like to know how public sector prosperity through wage increases is funded without adding more debt to the system. Got me thinking though. It’s a shame Keen doesn’t really get a lot of play in the Australian msm, surprise surprise. He is mostly referred to as ‘the guy who lost that bet’, even if the guy making the bet misspoke for Steve. I sense there is some snobbery against the University of Western Sydney too.
brilliant !
tie wage growth to GDP.. not inflation
Looking at the most recent Irish economic figures
GNP is a much more accurate metric of Irish economic activity
2007 was the pivotal year
GNP @ current market prices per quarter Q1 2007 = 40,650 million
Q2 2007 = 40,555 million
Q3 2007 = 39,866 million
a rise in the 4th quarter (I guess from job loss compensation which is high in Ireland)
Q4 2007 = 42,342 million
From this high a rapid decline follows
For statistical seaonal reasons its best to compare Q1 2007 to the Q1 2011 which has just been released
Q1 2011 = 30,017 million.
Thats a 26% decline in the Irish domestic economy bitches
@ Max,
Not sure if this has been mentioned to you in comments yet but when unions bargain with management, they use INFLATION numbers….not GDP. You make a great point about tying it to money supply instead.
Steve Keen ROCKS!
Cheers,
Joe
max dont worry about my share of the us consumer debt i took out 12.000.00 at 0 intrest [5% fee though] on my chase credit card and bought 15 rolls of silver eagles.i did the same thing last year also spent 500.00 on intrest but made 10.000 on the silver.everyone go buy buy buy on your chase card bury the silver then go out like leman bro.
Max, thanks for getting Steve on. You’d be amazed the amount of people
on both “sides” in OZ politics writing Steve off as a “Doomer” nut.
His wages projection is logical. He really is simply telling it how it is.
on steve keen . max we asked for a wage rise , but the company said we couldn`t afford it or they will go broke . WE ARE ASKING FOR MORE , BUT THESEBASTARDS WON`T GIVE US ANYTHING . we know we have to have more to survive . if you cut wages which is what my company did by not giving us a wage rise this . how are we going to survive . steve is right .
how are we going to ask for a rise when they are holding a gun to our heads . saying if we ask for a rise it might cost us our job. SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL THESE COMPANIES AND THE GOVERNMENT THE FACTS. that`s the only way we are going to get a rise. thanks max love your show . go get em max.
OMG, Stacy you are too distracting. Don’t get me wrong, Max is cute too. But….
With all the experts around you would think we wouldn’t have any more problems.
Why don’t we just return to an honest money? Why don’t we just make loans from previous savings?
By the way, wages are not just something you can demand or proclaim, whether you are a worker, manager, owner, or investor. With our present debt-based monetary system there are absolutely no valid price signals in the system—other than the systemic signal that the currency is constantly eroding in value revealed by the upward pressure on gold and silver values expressed in fiat currencies.
Eventually the debt-based money system must crash. That “eventually” is happening now.
People must re-learn what money actually is. It is not something created and managed by so-called experts. It has a tangible reality behind it.
When Obama wanted suggestions to “stimulate” the economy, I wrote something like this:
“Oprah had a program where someone had given a poor person $100,000 – without any financial advice. He gave money to his friends, he spent money to try to patch his relationship with his family, he bought a vehicle (I think he gave that away, too) he got a place to rent. Soon the money was gone. Oprah and her guest snarked, laughed and denigrated the poor guy (in good taste of course), saying this is why you don’t give money to the poor. I think he did much more for the economy than all of the government programs together. The poor don’t hoard. The poor don’t defraud you. The poor don’t waste. The poor don’t “ignore the poor”. The poor don’t dump poisons in the rivers. As a rule, the poor aren’t psychopaths. They don’t duck taxes. If they spend money on drugs – who cares? The poor are generous, hardworking people. And if their circumstances improve, they don’t have a jillion children. If you want the economic constipation that the world is experiencing – THE MONEY HAS GOT TO GO TO THE BOTTOM! ”
It’s not brain surgery my friends. But still, we’re seeking riches from the people who have no money.
Excellent show, wage increases that cause inflation to drive down debt is a great idea. The people with the debt though are not smart enough to be able to combat the propaganda that would come out against the idea.
THE MONEY HAS GOT TO GO TO THE BOTTOM! ” Indeed
The LEAST we can do is to stop stealing from the poor via money and banking.
Keen for Nobel Prize in Economics.
Here is the freaking simulation rgat proves the GFC was caused by inflation.
http://johanraft.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/volcker-corrected.png
Keen’s ‘Minsky Moment’ be damned!
I do have a question for Steve. How much of that “Private sector Debt”
is derived from “Public Sector” wages and salaries? Just one small
aggregate number seem hard to find in Government issued Stats.
Just posing the question? no high horses please.
____________Staaaaacy -> what’s your cite for the fukushima claims?
Increase wages. Sounds good. But doesn’t that mean that the costs of production will increase? So you increase wages and everything’s more expensive. Or should wages be increased and costs of goods frozen? If so, owners/shareholders are being asked to gratuitously bear the brunt. Hey man, give it a try – let me know how it goes.
Wooohoooo!!!
The Keenmeister.
Thanks Stacy and Max for getting him on again.
Love to listen to folks that think outta da box.
The box is such a boring place, isn’t it
@F. Beard/indeed/well said
@acudoc … “Eventually the debt-based money system must crash. That “eventually” is happening now.” yes
There seems to be some very fundemental flaws in Steve Keens position.
Wage rises should have a relationship to increased productivity = successfulness, other wise what are workers being rewarded for? Where is the incentive to maintain and increase output?
If one were to artificially raise wages, a number of things would happen.
The obvious one is that the trend to buy cheap foreign (primarily Asian) imports would continue.
The cash flow would therefore continue to travel in one direction as it has for at least two decades. Asia has the wealth the West left with ….nada, zilch, zero!
Secondly, this artificial perception of increased wealth, would lead to another false speculative property boom. Don’t think anyone wants to go there again.
Speculative increase’s in property does not create real tangible wealth. i.e. value added
The real issue has always been about international unit labour cost.
The debt fuelled credit card fantasy world gravy train of the West has simply come to an end. Its effectively been continued on artificial financial steroids.
If you are not prepared to work for $5 a day (or whatever it is) like the Chinese or Indians, you simply cannot compete.
Thats why they have the real wealth and will continue to accumulaste more, whilst the sheeple have been riding on the back of illusory property based so called wealth creation.
The only real wealth are industry, land = agriculture, hard commodities and precious metals.
What real wealth there is in the West……. 90% is owned by the elite.
The masses are now endentured debt slaves, and the state control apparatus to ensure they comply is tightening.
As someone recently wisely said, the elite have acieved what that they want as far as securing socieities wealth through corrupt institutionalised theft and fraud.
Now they have to ensure no one takes that wealth or their power and control away from them.
This is why we see in so many ways the introduction of draconian legislation, errosion of your rights and liberty through state sponsored opression.
So far they are maintaining their grip, but we are seeing the early stages of that grip being lost, and the worm will turn………………Z
whoever comes up with the drug that successfully treats pysical, mental
and spiritual riga mortise will be rich !
i was thinking about memes and art and how one work can change
perspective over night, then my daughter told me she is having
time travel dreams and nightmares. now i don’t know what to do?
.
ps. life is not about increased output. less is more
@Zorro
Actually I think Steve is fundamentally right. I don’t think he’s suggesting that it’s
“good” just that as things have gone so far out of hand debt wise. We all have
to consider this option now. My only question mark about Steve’s projection
is how much of this velocity should be encouraged out of Public/Private
sector and I do question differentiation in the statistics.
remember, your world view is scam based. you were brought up
on it and it is all you know, have ever known. sorry for that and
that it does make problem solving that much more difficult.
separation of church and state / separation of banker and state.
Edwin Vieira Interview with James Turk
http://www.goldmoney.com/video/vieira-interview.html
.
link from zero h.
Hmm blind indeed, how about separation of powers Fullstop
Read English civil wars. You want the State to look after you?
don’t expect any, read any “rights”
DING! Hotpockets! HAHA
Just remember be nice to the soilpeoples even if they produce a lot of CO2! They might be nice and try to save us!
Ditto Robes Pierre but remember not to lose your own head.
http://leguerrat.blogspot.com/2011/06/arab-spring-financed-by-us.html
Zorro excellent point……why increase productivity and output if you are rewarded regardless of your performance?
And then we strike the rocks of the whole capitalist and protestant work ethic delusion……because nobody wants our labour anyway….regardless of our efficiency.
We have a world where there is no need for ninety per cent of the “working population” ….and we reward thieves and liars and leave our children and old folks to be “cared”for by lunatics and people working for the minimum wage.
It’s very easy to say that we need an increase in wages. A diminishing order book, higher business and employment taxes, and high borrowing costs prevent this from happening. Where does a director of a small business find the cash to to pay his employees more money?
He BORROWS it Specky! do try to keep up with us financial wizards PLEASE!
All we need now is for someone to syntheisise silver out of cheaply available raw materials and the world`s problems are solved…..we can ALL be rich!
Greece cannot inflate its way out of debt, because it doesn’t issue its own currency. Instead of pushing for the catastrophic internal devaluation in Greece, German wages, that have been stagnant for 10 yrs should increase dramatically.
@specky4eyes
Thats a point I was trying to make, small business has to be
able to increase wages as well have access to these programs
I t,s alright for all these armchair Cromwells. I’ve actually
done 18hr shifts at a steel mill broken bread with the Brothers.
All the collegia think their going to be leading the revolution when it
happens. You want leaders try the local outlaw motor cycle
chapter . Your local prison their the guys that will be leading
the next charge of the proletariat. So before you start baying
for blood and shooting your mouth off. Be careful what you
wish for it may just come true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZuIUiNocRM
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”
“peace. peace. world peace, peace, peace.”
Go for it Greece. Stand up to the fascists. Good luck…don’t count on any assistance from American leadership…quite the opposite.
They are at war with the world….including North American. Maybe even the universe. I’m laying 3:1 odds they fail.
@ Jim Evans. The reality is that he cannot and should not borrow the money to increase wages. More debt puts him in more financial peril.
@ Ageo. Yes, brute strength will ultimately rule if no financial solution is found. Look at some of the African countries where a corrupt elite live in luxury while the masses starve in silence.
The only way to drastically increase the money in a workers pocket during a recession is to slash taxation.
“Specky4eyes | June 24, 2011 at 9:46 am |
It’s very easy to say that we need an increase in wages. A diminishing order book, higher business and employment taxes, and high borrowing costs prevent this from happening. Where does a director of a small business find the cash to to pay his employees more money?”
Hi Specky 4eyes, may I make a few observations? This is from US perspective….not sure where you are located.
From what I can gather, the higher wages as policy are a sign of hyperinflation on the horizon, just saying. I have been asking and looking, doing a bit of amateur research…and that is one of the the first signs it is near. Argentina has such a government policy. To me? Like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound, then treating a hang nail while you slowly and painfully bleed to death. Wiemar Germany had raging wage increases to go with hyperinflation. Then you paper your walls with the currency.
On the other hand, in the US, real wages haven’t risen since the early 1970s…..how does an economy grow if wages lag 40 years behind? Simply stated it cannot. Smoke and Mirrors borrowing.
Also, could you cite, if you know, which “higher business and employment taxes” have been raised in the US on small or large businesses in the last, oh, 20 years? I was a small business owner…and I never saw one from 1997 to 2009. Plenty tax cuts though…..gee, maybe wages could go up if they closed that loophole whereby wealth has been transferred to the top 1% income earners at a rate not seen since 1929…hey! What do you know? Just a coincidence I am sure.
No, every small business certainly can not afford it (technically, in US, this means a business doing less than US $12 million/year…a small business level 99% of us would love to have)…but can Walmart “afford it?” Or is it inevitable for “economic success” that 80 year olds must stand and greet you to afford a can of tuna in “retirement”, while the owners rake in billions?
Economic success leaves much to be desired if so. Trickle down….sorry, doesn’t work. Just means piss on the workers. Balance is to be sought….right now, the balance is way too far on one side of the pendulum. Way too far.
Great comments today. Thanks to all.
@speckeyes
@Farang
One of the problems as a current small business owner, is
that the big players in the regulatory environment use the
regs to their advantage. Example if you as a small business
owner stay under tax threshold A. You eliminate x hrs a week
in paper work and actually have a life. If however you on
balance decide to go for higher turnover and take on staff
or extra staff when you go through the numbers its not
worth it in terms of the few extra bucks you might make
IOW you are not encouraged to grow in the community you reside
all that extra paper. I hear what you say Farang I agree
totally but the whole game is tilted too the massive corps that
have the resources to deal with regulatory nightmare (not just tax)
I mean you loved small business so much you got out of it.
Presumably a salary or wage so you could have a life?
For me it is not just a tax thing. Accept it should be a lot
simpler. I actually agree about shitty wages if you hire you pay.
Penny pinching does not help your rep as a business owner
or standing in the community you reside.
A great show Max and Stacy. Your guests was lucid and concrete – very positive show. No libertarian twaddle.
@ Ageo. I pretty much agree with all you say. The growing problem with us has been that to downsize away from taxation leaves you with an income that no longer meets basic living costs. And yes, a good days labour from an employee deserves a fair days wage.
@Farang. I’m not in the U.S. And it’s not just about the taxation but also about all the time consuming bureaucracy that goes with it and vicious fines when you don’t get things right. Of course you can pay an accountant to help sort it out but he is costly and will try and sell you an insurance policy to protect you from the cost of government investigation. The list of expenses goes on and on..
Instead of demanding wage increases, consider the ‘employer’ being squeezed to death, then what do you have? NO JOB! Oh yeh, now force that bankrupt business owner (that is losing his home and has ‘no’ pension) to pay higher taxes to fund public union benefits. Oh yeh, the same regulatory public assholes that forces closure of small local business and chases large business overseas.
Typical leftist progressive stupidity, Oh yeh, your winning! Oh good!
@Daddy Warbucks
Lol. Yeh, all those poor corporations were “chased” overseas. Oh Daddy you are a cheer leader for the race to the bottom.
This episode reminded me why I started watching Max and Sherbert: Excellence. Professor Maxwell showed up. And then a contortion bug took a’hold of him something awful….must be something he caught in Greece…I think I used to see vidoes of someone in a leisure suit dance like that at NYC discos in the 70s…Maxwell, was that you???
Discovered drhousingbubble, have ya Sherbert? He predicted it from the bubble down….Max is correct about US housing prices……I see a 50% drop in California real estate from here to 2014-2015 (for those still drinking the bubble kool-aid and think their houses will sell for 2006 prices)….I have no sympathy for them, even a simpleton had to ask where the wages to support the price levels California real estate reached in 2006 was going to come from…hell, I was asking that during the 85-90 bubble.
Only question I have now is does Keen think if wages get raised as Uncle Ben keeps whipping up those Minute FRNs….as he said “increasing it at unprecedented levels”…”doubling the supply in two years”….that hyperinflation approaches? Not opposing raising wages (under proper terms and conditions), far from it, just stating what the conditions are I detect.
Raising wages in putting a band-aid on a broken system. Either America addresses it’s politician’s imperialist motives and cuts the funding through voting in new parties and politicians, or they will suffer the consequences like all other hubris-filled empires in history: wither internally from military expenditures/adventures abroad.
You see, these same simpletons that can’t link their town’s income levels, employment levels to the real estate price level…are same ones that can’t detect where all their tax money goes, why teachers are getting canned, why they have to drive Johnny and Sally to games after school now and buy the uniforms..why all the local merchants are withering away while Walmart has a superstore every 5 miles……..they think they can support 1000 bases abroad…through a “never-ending” printing press Reserve Currency.
We Shall See.
I still like silver.
@Speck4Eyes
I agree about the tax thresh hold thing we struggle every month just
to meet power bills, health registration, public liability on and on
in fact just manage to not lose the lot. No holidays in 4 years but
you just battle on tell yourself at least its yours. I still think beats
having a boss..any boss.
@Farang
I agree it really was a great show lots of great comments
although I don’t think dogma is helpful on either side of
this debate because the only winners end up being the
top 1% Steve Keen is telling debt story 100% correct
@farang
you know taking all of your last comment in,
probably the best food for thought out of every
comment.
@DaddyWarbucks. Exactly right. Some people here can talk from personal experience others have swallowed the latest financial whizz kid”s blog.
@Speckky4eyes
Right? He has a point but in his analysis he has blamed his employee
for Overstepping greed of bureaucracy His “regulatory public assholes”
line does have a ring of truth. But they are led from the top thats where the
real stupidity lays.
@ageofreisling @Speckky4eyes@DaddyWarbucks.
Steve Keen is an academic. Lets remember that.
As for the whining employers who think if they go bust the world will end.
Greed has gt us into a debt spiral, and employers cave in to government regulations and insurance companies etc etc. They get squeezed because they have stupidly huge mortgages. The workers should all pop over for a swim in your pool.
If the employer is running on such a razor thin margin, than maybe they should think about not bothering,
This ofcourse does not apply in the United States because you would starve on the streets like a stray dog. I never ever tip when in the United States. I hate watching workers grovel for tips like that. Its humiliating to watch.
I always tell them when asked for a tip, “Form a union, go on strike for better pay” Strangely for suggesting they improve their lot, they attack me for being a communist. Bizzare
@Alkyder
No swimming pools here bud, just real dirt on working hands.
Aren’t the large corps run by academics? Aren’t Governments
run by academics? Don’t worry no need to fear ordinary
mortals entering the public forum. Even though we know
we caused the problem. So you know what we do, yourself
plumber? tradie? private sector worker? come on give us
a hint?
@Alkyder
While I have an academics ears I never got an answer
to this question. Not that i’d understand any implications
I do have a question for Steve. How much of that “Private sector Debt”
is derived from “Public Sector” wages and salaries? Just one small
aggregate number seem hard to find in Government issued Stats.
Just posing the question? no high horses please.
@Alkyder
No swimming pool here either. What do you not understand? No more money means NO MORE MONEY. Zero in the bank. Zero under the bed. Cards maxed out. Shout and scream all you like. No more money. It’s a hard thing for a small business man who lives or dies by his local reputation to lay men off. And you’ve got it right, that is exactly what we are saying…not worth bothering. Sell your skill to who ever wants to buy it and keep away from employing anyone.
His tourniquet analogy works to the extent it gets across the point that it was private debt that led up to the 2008 debacle.
But it fails because the bailouts didn’t staunch the flow of private funds into bad investment. Quite the opposite in fact. The bailouts were more like sticking a bucket underneath the amputated limb and collecting the blood; more like amputating the other arm to make the blood loss symmetrical or something; more like applying leeches.
The fact of the matter was that there already were tried and true enough tourniquets on hand to deal with the so-called credit market seizure or whatever they want to call September 2008: bankruptcy courts.
@ ageofreisling @Specky4eyes
Thanks dudes. Great question “t “Private sector Debt”
is derived from “Public Sector” wages and salaries?
I’d like to ask the academic that one. Then maybe see what a real world biz person says too.
@ Specky Sell your skill to who ever wants to buy it and keep away from employing anyone.
Thats the way they want it. The big companies. Back to the cash economy. Go on the dole, work for cash, make BHP bankroll the gov.
Wer need to get the private insurance firms out of the small biz arena. They are poison.
@Alkyder. In that respect then they have won. In the UK a new law has just been passed granting new fathers several weeks paid paternity leave. How can this possibly help small businesses in a recession. They are out to close us down and they are winning. I wish I had an answer to all this. I have a spiritual answer and a certain hope in Jesus Christ. But I see a lot of the financial turmoil we are in as judgement. We die, as a society, by the sword we thought to live by, Mammon.
Rumours of our demise may have been exaggerated Specky……keep calm and carry on….Britain was bankrupted by the First World War….so “our” British politics has been a complete sham ever since then.
Our futures depend on Americans and their EU fascist dictatorship……all the politics and social opinion and Westminster legislation is without our control. Lie back and think of England!
Yes, a sham indeed. What sort of “capitalism” takes from the poor to bail out the rich. That is a skewed kind of communism.
@ Al Kyder
100% Insurance companies period parasites agreed!! Need some
serious law reform their like, going back to justice equity,
Common law, Common sense. I did not make a claim about
“Public” v”Private” debt merely how much. You added the
leading , prejudicial vent to the quite plain initial question.
Gov stats are rubbery in their differentiation even an old
communist knows that. And I would really like to know.
@ Specky4eyes @ ageofreisling
Thank you both again for your comments. Especially those first two. Comments straight from the heart like that are worth more than gold. People can empathise.
Mah! what are we gonna do, Mow rich peoples lwans for 30 bucks an hour. We’ll hit peak rich people fast. We’ll have to eat em then.
@ageofreisling
Some kind of mass default would suit Australia. A mass default on insurance payments. We need t go for specific targets. Like Maq Bank, AAMI, Allianz, AON, APIA, AXA, CommInsure and the other bank arms. Maybe storm APRA
the Australian “Perpetual” Regulation Authority.
A boycott of tolls would also be interesting, Esp. for Maq.
@ Specky4eyes
At least in the UK people are fighting back. Whenever you see the anarcho-sydicalist flags at those protests, (the black and red diagonal) they are fighting for your right to have the life you earned. So they love you. Good to know there lots of that going around in the UK.
With the money we save from killing the bankster insurance companies, we can triple wages just with the money we saved !!!!!!
I agree with Keen for the most part. The thing is that competitivism IS the death spiral. It’s like that Highlander movie, “there can be only one” as they said. We see the results every day. Less businesses, less workers, greater unemployment, more monopolies, all the money/assets in the hands of those who are still standing.
I don’t say it’s either good or bad. If you’re with the top 1%, it’s great. It’s like Buffet said, you’re winning. But if you’re with the bottom 90%, then things are going south. The thing is that the bottom 90% don’t need the top 1%, they just need the assets. They should take them and get on with their lives. It’s not unethical. The top 1% are doing it for years and years. They may be doing it in a more delicate way, but then they are less, and they can’t just go on and take them.
More democracy, no oligarchy.
@Kosta. In some ways I agree with you. What you describe as “competitivism” is the evolutionists “survival of the fittest. Capitalism without social responsibility backed by government in the hands of the elite inevitably leads to what you describe. What R.C. Sproul describes as “stewardship capitalism” is a better model. But with a society that denies God His rightful place and rejects moral absolutes we are left with the law of the jungle.