19 thoughts on “3 virtual strikes and you go to a real prison”
Robert Mockan
In a world where almost everything is imaginary except the neccessities for physical life, the conviction makes perfect sense to me.
Hugo
Hi Max,
Strange the publishers of this piece left out an important part of this ruling. Since I come from the Netherlands where it happend and I happend to follow the case. This part is missing.
”’De Raad deed uitspraak in een zaak waarbij twee jongens een destijds 13-jarige jongen met messen hadden bedreigd en mishandeld, om op die manier virtuele bezittingen te bemachtigen in een online computerspel.”
The court ruled in a case where two boys a then 13 year old boy had threatened with knives and beaten him up to gain access to his virtual possesions in a online computer game.
Here is the piece in Dutch including the missing paragraph from your link. http://nos.nl/artikel/336006-hoge-raad-virtueel-stelen-is-strafbaar.html
Robert Mockan
@ Hugo
Max may know the details, and posted the blurb anyway. Why? Same reason I posted what I did in my earlier post, and I did read another article with more details. The conviction is nonsensical! The 13 year old was accosted by two assailants who threatened him with a knife and beat him up! That is assault and battery! But the conviction was for theft(!) of virtual property? Either way the conviction makes perfect sense in a world where almost everything is imaginary except the necessities of physical life. A life was endangered, and the conviction was for theft?! TILT! You say you followed the case. Does it make any sense to you?
Daniel S
It fits in with the Austrian economists’ idea that all value is not in objects or labor but in the mind. Virtual items have value to their owners. They required time and effort to obtain and require the same to replace. Virtual games are often momentum-based making replacing items impractical if not impossible within the context of their role in competitive play. So if someone else doesn’t value the property or activities of another (video-gaming in this case), it is irrelevant. The market decides value, and virtual property has value in the market as well as the mind of the owner, and can thus be stolen.
TRT
this is a description of our money…intangible…you can’t touch a promise either…
his time and labor represented in intangible pixels with no intrinsic value…just like online banking!
who knew there was such a demand for online gaming tokens? the players with the good tokens hang out or something? or get all the hot gaming chicks?
That which has value, however perceived, is imaginary, unless it is derived from the physical universe, and is required to maintain or continue the individual life. I agree with your post, and I happen to approve of Austrian economics (mostly), but when a decision be made indicating a basis for the rule of law between what is real, and what is imaginary, the decision should favor reference to the real universe, and not the imaginary creations of the mind. Even though people do put a lot off time and labor into their imaginary creations, and the value to the individual may be important, assault and battery take precedence over theft of virtual property, in my opinion, as a viable reason to convict the assailants.
LOL! These kind of comments are why I like this forum. People say the oddest things here, perhaps never realizing the far reaching implications.
Here is a story. Of course in this universe it never happened. But maybe in some alternate universe?
Today, every individual has within their grasp the prospect of immortality, if only they can remain alive until science and technology perfects procedures. The mind is bound to the physical brain structure. But a half century ago research by Dr. Robert White with isolated (dog and chimp) heads attached to the circulatory systems of healthy animals, remained alive as long as the healthy animal blood flow was maintained through the severed head. Eye movements, face expressions, brain activity with EEG machine, all indicated the severed heads were fully alive and the minds were consciously aware of their surroundings. They remained alive until the experiments were terminated for the followup medical studies. A plan for a (hypothetical) application was made, to use the procedure to maintain human minds, that is the essence of their life, many years past the senescence death of the human body. By combining the process with hypothermia (cooling) of the severed head, to extend time to senescence death of the brain tissue, it was estimated that the human mind could remain viable for at least 500 years. That is probably hundreds of years past the development of science and technology that could literally copy the mind into a non deteriorating structure designed and built with no senescence end point. In other words, the new entity with the preserved mind from these primitive times of dark ages of human existence, before any evolved understanding of the ” value” of life, would live and continue to evolve… forever. Thus the promise of immortality, given to all people living today.
But this world was still too primitive to fulfill realization of that future. And so the people continued to die. Death was their epitaph. Almost the only reason they lived, was to die. Without ever knowing that ending need not have been.
It is of course just a story. It never happened. The people in this world can not even decide to destroy the insane oligarchs and implement a sound money system. LOL!
kdt
people is sooo stupid it was an assault and extortion plain and simple between kids no less , pea brain prosecutor got his name on a president for makeing new law and most likley nither kid “owned” the 1 and 0 that make that crap up it is the toc of every game out there it is ALL copyrighted to the game all the users do is use them!!! lol do you own that special spread sheet you made up on micro soft office??? go ask good old billy boy but i dont hardly think so i wonder if this judge relizes what a can of worms this is ??? tards lmao
If the stock markets are considered ‘real’ by the law, then why shouldn’t these games be.
It is just another game.
MF Global investors shouldn’t complain because as is stated here very often Fiat Money is not real either. It is ‘printed’ into existence by bankers and does not hold real value.
If Fiat is ‘just paper’ then Bitcoin and video games are just as real.
The law, for what it is worth, says so.
Alex
max you lose credibility when you take things out of context. The boy was assulted and threatened in real life for virtual goods. A real life assult is a crime! At first glance, Your making this sound like the objects were stolen in the game and a boy got busted for this, like shoplifting in second life or something. We come to this site to get away from BS mass media and get logical and rational truth. Your doing the same as them but just from a different direction.
Robert Mockan
@ Alex
Perception of reality begins with the individual. You say that Max took things out of context, that he “..At first glance, Your making this sound like the objects were stolen in the game and a boy got busted for this, like shoplifting in second life or something.”
That is called a click con. It makes you click on the page. Clicking makes the e-commerce business go around. A ploy of advertising. What Max is doing is hardly comparable to what the insane oligarchs and their followers are doing. It is not even a different direction. It is just… entertaining to get their attention.
THIS is what the enemy is all about: http://metanoia-films.org/psywar/
Alex
@Robert,
You prove the point most people are sheep willing to blindly follow anyone who shouts loud but doesnt actually listen to anything the ranter is saying. Just like the right wingers think Fox can’t do any wrong, your just the same thinking max can’t do any wrong. This headline was designed to clearly mislead people. Max revenues are driven by state support from Russia and Iran. Although I don’t like US policy towards these nations, they are no angels either.
Sweet Cheeses
The yoots should have been charged with assault. As for the kids stuff? They should have used the MF-Defense…it “vaporized”.
Robert Mockan
@ Alex
Well, it sure did not mislead you. You are so perceptive.
And thank you for telling me what I think.
Kevin Eshbach
@Mini US
Fiat currency has other values such as tinder, compost, wall paper, mattress/pillow stuffing, etc.
In a world where almost everything is imaginary except the neccessities for physical life, the conviction makes perfect sense to me.
Hi Max,
Strange the publishers of this piece left out an important part of this ruling. Since I come from the Netherlands where it happend and I happend to follow the case. This part is missing.
”’De Raad deed uitspraak in een zaak waarbij twee jongens een destijds 13-jarige jongen met messen hadden bedreigd en mishandeld, om op die manier virtuele bezittingen te bemachtigen in een online computerspel.”
The court ruled in a case where two boys a then 13 year old boy had threatened with knives and beaten him up to gain access to his virtual possesions in a online computer game.
Here is the piece in Dutch including the missing paragraph from your link. http://nos.nl/artikel/336006-hoge-raad-virtueel-stelen-is-strafbaar.html
@ Hugo
Max may know the details, and posted the blurb anyway. Why? Same reason I posted what I did in my earlier post, and I did read another article with more details. The conviction is nonsensical! The 13 year old was accosted by two assailants who threatened him with a knife and beat him up! That is assault and battery! But the conviction was for theft(!) of virtual property? Either way the conviction makes perfect sense in a world where almost everything is imaginary except the necessities of physical life. A life was endangered, and the conviction was for theft?! TILT! You say you followed the case. Does it make any sense to you?
It fits in with the Austrian economists’ idea that all value is not in objects or labor but in the mind. Virtual items have value to their owners. They required time and effort to obtain and require the same to replace. Virtual games are often momentum-based making replacing items impractical if not impossible within the context of their role in competitive play. So if someone else doesn’t value the property or activities of another (video-gaming in this case), it is irrelevant. The market decides value, and virtual property has value in the market as well as the mind of the owner, and can thus be stolen.
this is a description of our money…intangible…you can’t touch a promise either…
his time and labor represented in intangible pixels with no intrinsic value…just like online banking!
who knew there was such a demand for online gaming tokens? the players with the good tokens hang out or something? or get all the hot gaming chicks?
@Max,
from the same website: How Long Do Severed Heads Live?
http://www.disinfo.com/2011/07/how-long-do-severed-heads-live/
(more bad news for Jamie)
@ Danial S.
That which has value, however perceived, is imaginary, unless it is derived from the physical universe, and is required to maintain or continue the individual life. I agree with your post, and I happen to approve of Austrian economics (mostly), but when a decision be made indicating a basis for the rule of law between what is real, and what is imaginary, the decision should favor reference to the real universe, and not the imaginary creations of the mind. Even though people do put a lot off time and labor into their imaginary creations, and the value to the individual may be important, assault and battery take precedence over theft of virtual property, in my opinion, as a viable reason to convict the assailants.
I sold my warcraft account years ago for £280 !
And if you think that’s crazy check this out….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7007026.stm
World of Warcraft account sold for £5,000 !!!
@ General Rasta, SLA
LOL! These kind of comments are why I like this forum. People say the oddest things here, perhaps never realizing the far reaching implications.
Here is a story. Of course in this universe it never happened. But maybe in some alternate universe?
Today, every individual has within their grasp the prospect of immortality, if only they can remain alive until science and technology perfects procedures. The mind is bound to the physical brain structure. But a half century ago research by Dr. Robert White with isolated (dog and chimp) heads attached to the circulatory systems of healthy animals, remained alive as long as the healthy animal blood flow was maintained through the severed head. Eye movements, face expressions, brain activity with EEG machine, all indicated the severed heads were fully alive and the minds were consciously aware of their surroundings. They remained alive until the experiments were terminated for the followup medical studies. A plan for a (hypothetical) application was made, to use the procedure to maintain human minds, that is the essence of their life, many years past the senescence death of the human body. By combining the process with hypothermia (cooling) of the severed head, to extend time to senescence death of the brain tissue, it was estimated that the human mind could remain viable for at least 500 years. That is probably hundreds of years past the development of science and technology that could literally copy the mind into a non deteriorating structure designed and built with no senescence end point. In other words, the new entity with the preserved mind from these primitive times of dark ages of human existence, before any evolved understanding of the ” value” of life, would live and continue to evolve… forever. Thus the promise of immortality, given to all people living today.
But this world was still too primitive to fulfill realization of that future. And so the people continued to die. Death was their epitaph. Almost the only reason they lived, was to die. Without ever knowing that ending need not have been.
It is of course just a story. It never happened. The people in this world can not even decide to destroy the insane oligarchs and implement a sound money system. LOL!
people is sooo stupid it was an assault and extortion plain and simple between kids no less , pea brain prosecutor got his name on a president for makeing new law and most likley nither kid “owned” the 1 and 0 that make that crap up it is the toc of every game out there it is ALL copyrighted to the game all the users do is use them!!! lol do you own that special spread sheet you made up on micro soft office??? go ask good old billy boy but i dont hardly think so i wonder if this judge relizes what a can of worms this is ??? tards lmao
ops tou not toc sorry
Beware the savage jaw of 1984 in 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9WnSOISv0
This article makes a great point.
If the stock markets are considered ‘real’ by the law, then why shouldn’t these games be.
It is just another game.
MF Global investors shouldn’t complain because as is stated here very often Fiat Money is not real either. It is ‘printed’ into existence by bankers and does not hold real value.
If Fiat is ‘just paper’ then Bitcoin and video games are just as real.
The law, for what it is worth, says so.
max you lose credibility when you take things out of context. The boy was assulted and threatened in real life for virtual goods. A real life assult is a crime! At first glance, Your making this sound like the objects were stolen in the game and a boy got busted for this, like shoplifting in second life or something. We come to this site to get away from BS mass media and get logical and rational truth. Your doing the same as them but just from a different direction.
@ Alex
Perception of reality begins with the individual. You say that Max took things out of context, that he “..At first glance, Your making this sound like the objects were stolen in the game and a boy got busted for this, like shoplifting in second life or something.”
That is called a click con. It makes you click on the page. Clicking makes the e-commerce business go around. A ploy of advertising. What Max is doing is hardly comparable to what the insane oligarchs and their followers are doing. It is not even a different direction. It is just… entertaining to get their attention.
THIS is what the enemy is all about: http://metanoia-films.org/psywar/
@Robert,
You prove the point most people are sheep willing to blindly follow anyone who shouts loud but doesnt actually listen to anything the ranter is saying. Just like the right wingers think Fox can’t do any wrong, your just the same thinking max can’t do any wrong. This headline was designed to clearly mislead people. Max revenues are driven by state support from Russia and Iran. Although I don’t like US policy towards these nations, they are no angels either.
The yoots should have been charged with assault. As for the kids stuff? They should have used the MF-Defense…it “vaporized”.
@ Alex
Well, it sure did not mislead you. You are so perceptive.
And thank you for telling me what I think.
@Mini US
Fiat currency has other values such as tinder, compost, wall paper, mattress/pillow stuffing, etc.