18 thoughts on “[TaM-1263] The Truth About Aaron Swartz, Kim Dot God and HMV Gift Cards”
Verner
@Max & Stacy or anyone’s opinion
Please help me understand difference between silver coins and bars
I have dilemma which one should I choose?
rico
In Netherlands there’s this difference in that one is taxed 21% and the other, being currency, is not. Gold on the other hand, both in bar or coin, is not taxed! So Gold is apparently ‘money’ in both forms where silver is only currency (not taxed) when it is a coin. I personally think this is beautifully stupid, much in the same way we used to tax houses by the number of windows there were in a house. So to buy in Holland you’re better off buying silver coins with the least ‘mint premium’ on it (unless premium is over 21%, then you’re prbably better off buying bars).
When it becomes interesting probably is when you want to sell. You’ll likely receive ‘melt value’ which is determined by the silver spot price, depending on the weight of your silver.
Since ‘what gets taxed’ is totally arbitrary, at what point will silver coins become taxed or will gold become taxed? In Netherlands, like USA, there is a law that allows confiscation of gold by the government. Taxing money is confiscation, but getting all you goodies is even more so!
Oh how I wish Max/Stacy would interview some Ducht MP, or savy individuals such as Eric Mecking, Willem Middelkoop or Elmer Hogervorst on matters more relevant to NL.
Gregers Werle
Choose both Verner.
Excellent TAM. I agree with Stacy, it’s ‘bottom up’ in the US. US society is stratified and paranoid at all levels. The pressure of climbing the Socio-Economic Hierarchy ladder is magnified by the fact that the ‘American’ has no obvious historical reference point for their culture. It’s an idea built on Enlightenment rationalism that doesn’t seem very legitimate today. No wonder the Captains of Industry had such an easy time subverting the entire experiment when you can re-write dearly held principles to bend the meaning for however it suits you. There’s nothing concrete about any of the ‘ethical’ doctrines pre or post ‘Enlightenment’ or at least no claim can be made about its ‘universality’.
L T P
@Verner,
This piggy opines that it depends on what you plan to do with da phyzz you get. Are you after the ability to barter on small things? The Keiser Ethical Rounds aren’t a bad choice as they’re sweet Ag! It’s harder for this swine to get the 100 Oz Johnson Mattheys as some in this forum saw on my 1st SLA video. Bullion is the cheapest way to obtain BULK silver, but transport between borders if you’re moving could incur a steep duty. Most jurisdictions for travelers don’t impose such duty if in coin/round form. Think it over good. If you’re after to use it to buy big things, the bricks will do better for you IMAO. Do your homework though. Visit SilverDoctors forums for additional stackers like me. At least you’re getting in at a good time. OINK!!
L T P -aka- Major Bacon – Silver Liberation Army
Follow this occasionally foul-mouthed piggy on Twitter: @lickthepig
Bill Stewart
Some PNG news, seeing as how it has a significant resource base :
The first speaker of Papua New Guinea’s parliament, Sir Barry Holloway, has died.
78-year old Sir Barry died in Brisbane’s Mater Hospital on Wednesday with his family members and former partner, Fua, present.
A formidable politician, he first came to PNG as a Kiap, or provincial administrator, in 1953 at age 18.
Sir Barry went on to form the Pangu Pati in 1968 and he became speaker of the house of assembly in 1972.
When PNG gained full independence from Australia in 1975, he served as the nation’s first Speaker until 1977, before taking on the role of finance minister until 1982.
He ran for the governorship of the Eastern Highlands at the 2012 national election, narrowly losing to Julie Soso, one of the three women members of PNG’s 111-member parliament.
Sir Michael Somare’s spokeswoman, Betha Somare, says the former prime minister cherished Sir Barry’s contribution to PNG and noted his contributions to legislative and constitutional amendments.
L T P
Max & Stacy,
Awesome TaM and so glad y’all are uploading it again! You made this swine think that We Da Sheeple should start enforcing our COPYRIGHTS against the Government. The only sweet spot I’m aware of is that the Library of Congre$$ each gets 2 copies. Will the Obama-ite heretics simply declare the new Utah facility storing all our emails as an ARM of the Library of Congress if the Sheeple start enforcing their COPYRIGHT? OINK!!
snoop diddy
Yeah, really liked this TAM.
Sacramento Joe
Great TaM! This is by far your best venue….so creative, relaxed, and honest. The perfect antidote for the “echo chamber” I once again live in.
Thanks Max and Stacy
Bruce
Verner,
Silver coins or bars?
Coins will be easier to re-sell and divide in smaller quantities. Bars won’t. On the other hand bars often get you more silver for your buck (less premiums), but on the other hand they also attract less premium from buyers when you re-sell too. So it’s pretty much even the way I see it. Keep in mind some coins you buy aren’t individually wrapped but come in tubes of 20 or 25. So if you are intending to sell individual coins they won’t come in their own plastic casings per individual coin. You can buy some coins that do or you can get those plastic casings separately in future if needed.
If I were buying, I wouldn’t buy anything heavier than 10 oz bars (you can also get 10 oz coins for what it’s worth, which tend to be fairly impressive things with nice finish, if you can find one without Liz’s head on them).
The size and weight here is the ‘sweet spot’ for me: it’s not too hard to offload to buyers and not too expensive should the price spike up to double or triple (not that I am necessarily suggesting it would…)
When it comes to bars, I don’t like the rough look of many poured bars. PAMP make some sexy stuff and attract a premium for the sexy, which may be interesting as you first start buying silver; to me personally I still prefer minted coins rather than bars unless I’m buying gold, in which case I prefer tiny bars of gold in certified unopened plastic casings due to their lower premiums over coins.
It all depends on your tastes in the end. They aren’t mutually exclusive either, so you can buy a bit of each to keep some variety in the collection and then decide to buy more of this-or-that from there. Some people really love collecting different coins from different parts of the world to add some spice to their collections.
Argh! My perlpodder doesn’t see the enclosure things in the rss!?
Please help!
Craig Sipple
Always much more fun when you are stoned. Thanks.
Danny Cunnington
Concerning silver coins and bars and BTW/VAT in the Netherlands:
Because silver is used in industry as a material, it is subject to value added tax known as BTW. Until 1st January 2011, Bars were taxed at the then rate of 19% but coins were taxed at 6%. This was because they were classified as art or collectables. After that date both coins and bars were taxed at the same rate of 19%.
The difference: The 6% reduced rate could not be claimed back so this was the choice for individuals. Bars taxed at 19% could be bought by a company who are BTW registered and the 19% BTW could be reclaimed until such a point as the bars were resold.
From the end of September 2012 the rate of BTW was increased to 21% on both bars and coins. The coins prices you see advertised on bullion dealers like silvermountian.nl include this tax.
Bars or coins? If you think that you may later actually exchange physical silver for goods or services coins are probably better because coins are more readily seen as a form of money than a bar. Bullion coins like the Silver American Eagle are widely recognised by most people. They also come with airtight plastic tubes in roll of 20. You can leave these unopened meaning they are uncirculated and as new. A roll of 20 is about €620,00 and has the advantage of being divisible by 20 separate coins.
At the moment the price is around €30,00 per coin. This means it’s a handy size to exchange for stuff but the price could easily go way higher if it was worth €150 is would be less exchangeable. A kilo bar is about the equivalent of 33 bullion coins so this would be worth just under €5,000,00. This is a nice thing to have but could be too big a unit for some things. I would prefer 33 bullion coins.
Activist bullion coins like the ethical keiser may have a premium on them in the future for some people
ronron
a bit of a Bonn show. kimdotcom will be smashed. sorry, i don,t enjoy this. enchypting will become illegal.
haha. the british are the good guys. germans? bullshit.
ricin3000
VAT in the netherlands:
Gold: no VAT
Silver bars: general VAT (21%)
Silver coins: general VAT but only on the seller’s margin, and it may not be put on the receipt/bill seperately
So for private buyers coins are – despite the premium – somewhat cheaper.
sukar
What a great service you provide. Been listening a long time. Thank you both for all your hard work, for your bravery, for your ideas, for giving a shite. Have you read “The Bicameral Mind” by Julian Jaynes? Max’s idea that we will go back to a culture sans the “I” would be (according to Jaynes) evolutionarily impossible…but….by using more of our conscious mind rather then our non-conscious we will be able to better distinguish between real and imagined events, better able to make good choices for ourselves and others etc.
@Max & Stacy or anyone’s opinion
Please help me understand difference between silver coins and bars
I have dilemma which one should I choose?
In Netherlands there’s this difference in that one is taxed 21% and the other, being currency, is not. Gold on the other hand, both in bar or coin, is not taxed! So Gold is apparently ‘money’ in both forms where silver is only currency (not taxed) when it is a coin. I personally think this is beautifully stupid, much in the same way we used to tax houses by the number of windows there were in a house. So to buy in Holland you’re better off buying silver coins with the least ‘mint premium’ on it (unless premium is over 21%, then you’re prbably better off buying bars).
When it becomes interesting probably is when you want to sell. You’ll likely receive ‘melt value’ which is determined by the silver spot price, depending on the weight of your silver.
Since ‘what gets taxed’ is totally arbitrary, at what point will silver coins become taxed or will gold become taxed? In Netherlands, like USA, there is a law that allows confiscation of gold by the government. Taxing money is confiscation, but getting all you goodies is even more so!
Oh how I wish Max/Stacy would interview some Ducht MP, or savy individuals such as Eric Mecking, Willem Middelkoop or Elmer Hogervorst on matters more relevant to NL.
Choose both Verner.
Excellent TAM. I agree with Stacy, it’s ‘bottom up’ in the US. US society is stratified and paranoid at all levels. The pressure of climbing the Socio-Economic Hierarchy ladder is magnified by the fact that the ‘American’ has no obvious historical reference point for their culture. It’s an idea built on Enlightenment rationalism that doesn’t seem very legitimate today. No wonder the Captains of Industry had such an easy time subverting the entire experiment when you can re-write dearly held principles to bend the meaning for however it suits you. There’s nothing concrete about any of the ‘ethical’ doctrines pre or post ‘Enlightenment’ or at least no claim can be made about its ‘universality’.
@Verner,
This piggy opines that it depends on what you plan to do with da phyzz you get. Are you after the ability to barter on small things? The Keiser Ethical Rounds aren’t a bad choice as they’re sweet Ag! It’s harder for this swine to get the 100 Oz Johnson Mattheys as some in this forum saw on my 1st SLA video. Bullion is the cheapest way to obtain BULK silver, but transport between borders if you’re moving could incur a steep duty. Most jurisdictions for travelers don’t impose such duty if in coin/round form. Think it over good. If you’re after to use it to buy big things, the bricks will do better for you IMAO. Do your homework though. Visit SilverDoctors forums for additional stackers like me. At least you’re getting in at a good time. OINK!!
L T P -aka- Major Bacon – Silver Liberation Army
Follow this occasionally foul-mouthed piggy on Twitter: @lickthepig
Some PNG news, seeing as how it has a significant resource base :
PNG’s first speaker dies in Brisbane
http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=73442
The first speaker of Papua New Guinea’s parliament, Sir Barry Holloway, has died.
78-year old Sir Barry died in Brisbane’s Mater Hospital on Wednesday with his family members and former partner, Fua, present.
A formidable politician, he first came to PNG as a Kiap, or provincial administrator, in 1953 at age 18.
Sir Barry went on to form the Pangu Pati in 1968 and he became speaker of the house of assembly in 1972.
When PNG gained full independence from Australia in 1975, he served as the nation’s first Speaker until 1977, before taking on the role of finance minister until 1982.
He ran for the governorship of the Eastern Highlands at the 2012 national election, narrowly losing to Julie Soso, one of the three women members of PNG’s 111-member parliament.
Sir Michael Somare’s spokeswoman, Betha Somare, says the former prime minister cherished Sir Barry’s contribution to PNG and noted his contributions to legislative and constitutional amendments.
Max & Stacy,
Awesome TaM and so glad y’all are uploading it again! You made this swine think that We Da Sheeple should start enforcing our COPYRIGHTS against the Government. The only sweet spot I’m aware of is that the Library of Congre$$ each gets 2 copies. Will the Obama-ite heretics simply declare the new Utah facility storing all our emails as an ARM of the Library of Congress if the Sheeple start enforcing their COPYRIGHT? OINK!!
Yeah, really liked this TAM.
Great TaM! This is by far your best venue….so creative, relaxed, and honest. The perfect antidote for the “echo chamber” I once again live in.
Thanks Max and Stacy
Verner,
Silver coins or bars?
Coins will be easier to re-sell and divide in smaller quantities. Bars won’t. On the other hand bars often get you more silver for your buck (less premiums), but on the other hand they also attract less premium from buyers when you re-sell too. So it’s pretty much even the way I see it. Keep in mind some coins you buy aren’t individually wrapped but come in tubes of 20 or 25. So if you are intending to sell individual coins they won’t come in their own plastic casings per individual coin. You can buy some coins that do or you can get those plastic casings separately in future if needed.
If I were buying, I wouldn’t buy anything heavier than 10 oz bars (you can also get 10 oz coins for what it’s worth, which tend to be fairly impressive things with nice finish, if you can find one without Liz’s head on them).
The size and weight here is the ‘sweet spot’ for me: it’s not too hard to offload to buyers and not too expensive should the price spike up to double or triple (not that I am necessarily suggesting it would…)
When it comes to bars, I don’t like the rough look of many poured bars. PAMP make some sexy stuff and attract a premium for the sexy, which may be interesting as you first start buying silver; to me personally I still prefer minted coins rather than bars unless I’m buying gold, in which case I prefer tiny bars of gold in certified unopened plastic casings due to their lower premiums over coins.
It all depends on your tastes in the end. They aren’t mutually exclusive either, so you can buy a bit of each to keep some variety in the collection and then decide to buy more of this-or-that from there. Some people really love collecting different coins from different parts of the world to add some spice to their collections.
Happy hunting.
Argh! My perlpodder doesn’t see the enclosure things in the rss!?
Please help!
Always much more fun when you are stoned. Thanks.
Concerning silver coins and bars and BTW/VAT in the Netherlands:
Because silver is used in industry as a material, it is subject to value added tax known as BTW. Until 1st January 2011, Bars were taxed at the then rate of 19% but coins were taxed at 6%. This was because they were classified as art or collectables. After that date both coins and bars were taxed at the same rate of 19%.
The difference: The 6% reduced rate could not be claimed back so this was the choice for individuals. Bars taxed at 19% could be bought by a company who are BTW registered and the 19% BTW could be reclaimed until such a point as the bars were resold.
From the end of September 2012 the rate of BTW was increased to 21% on both bars and coins. The coins prices you see advertised on bullion dealers like silvermountian.nl include this tax.
Bars or coins? If you think that you may later actually exchange physical silver for goods or services coins are probably better because coins are more readily seen as a form of money than a bar. Bullion coins like the Silver American Eagle are widely recognised by most people. They also come with airtight plastic tubes in roll of 20. You can leave these unopened meaning they are uncirculated and as new. A roll of 20 is about €620,00 and has the advantage of being divisible by 20 separate coins.
At the moment the price is around €30,00 per coin. This means it’s a handy size to exchange for stuff but the price could easily go way higher if it was worth €150 is would be less exchangeable. A kilo bar is about the equivalent of 33 bullion coins so this would be worth just under €5,000,00. This is a nice thing to have but could be too big a unit for some things. I would prefer 33 bullion coins.
Activist bullion coins like the ethical keiser may have a premium on them in the future for some people
a bit of a Bonn show. kimdotcom will be smashed. sorry, i don,t enjoy this. enchypting will become illegal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QNelt33QP_8#!
haha. the british are the good guys. germans? bullshit.
VAT in the netherlands:
Gold: no VAT
Silver bars: general VAT (21%)
Silver coins: general VAT but only on the seller’s margin, and it may not be put on the receipt/bill seperately
So for private buyers coins are – despite the premium – somewhat cheaper.
What a great service you provide. Been listening a long time. Thank you both for all your hard work, for your bravery, for your ideas, for giving a shite. Have you read “The Bicameral Mind” by Julian Jaynes? Max’s idea that we will go back to a culture sans the “I” would be (according to Jaynes) evolutionarily impossible…but….by using more of our conscious mind rather then our non-conscious we will be able to better distinguish between real and imagined events, better able to make good choices for ourselves and others etc.
© 2006–2013 Max Keiser
Max, practice what you preach. Put a Creative Commons logo there instead.